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Ola posted:Alsace Riesling. And proper red Burgundy. And proper white Burgundy, so you start liking Chardonnay again. I second all of these recommendations. I'd also consider trying a Chenin Blanc, either from Vouvray or Anjou. I don't have a bunch of experience with them, but the ones I've tried all stand out very positively in my mind.
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Jan 31, 2016 05:24
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Ola posted:You're absolutely right, but the Côte d'Or style is the style the cougar juice makers have imitated, so it's worth going to the source and seeing what a previous bad experience was supposed to taste like - but as you say, you can buy a bottle of white with Bourgogne on the label and get something different. Yeah, it really can't be overstated how wine styles can be ruined by poor imitators who don't know what they're doing. So much new world Chardonnay is oaked all to hell and back, and often lacks the necessary acidity to balance the residual sugar in the wine. I thought I hated chardonnay as well, until I drank some decent white burgundy. You can often see the same thing with off-dry rieslings. People say, "ah, I don't like sweeter wines at all" and then you introduce them to a well-crafted example from Alsace or MSR, and all of a sudden they don't hate the sweetness. lovely winemakers have done such damage to any number of grapes and styles this way.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:24
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I hate to mention NZ chardonnay again after the argument that was on the last page, but -- does anyone have any ideas why NZ chardonnay is in such limited supply and so expensive in Canada? After visiting a few stores yesterday, the cheapest I could find was Cloudy Bay (and the only other one I saw was Dog Point). Cloudy Bay has always treated me well in the past with their other wines, so I took a gamble, but it seems strange that there's nothing under that price level. Is it just a marketing issue in Canada (or perhaps just Alberta)? We've got NZ Pinot and Sauvignon Blanc coming out of our ears.
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Feb 2, 2016 15:50
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Ola posted:Cloudy Bay has a pretty wide range of wines don't they? Some cheap and some expensive. Their Chardonnay is probably grown and selected for quality and pricey everywhere. The only NZ Chardonnay I've had was the kind where the variety doesn't really matter... But would be interesting to try CB's. We get three varieties here, and they're all definitely on the pricey side -- around what you'd pay for an average village appellation Burgundy, I'd say. The Chardonnay was $41, but one has to remember that our taxes are very unpleasant. The Sauv Blanc is a bit less, and the Pinot Noir is a bit more. Also, for some unknown reason, the Cloudy Bay website's age wall will not work if you say you're from Canada, and it sets a cookie once you fail it once. Thank god for Porn Mode... After some more investigation, it looks like it's at least theoretically possible to get Chardonnays that are more in line with the cost of other varietals, but I've yet to find a place that stocks any NZ chardonnay below $40. Must be a market thing -- I remember a wine rep telling me that chardonnays had taken a massive hit in popularity over the past few years, so maybe stores just aren't interested in stocking anything but reliable sellers.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:11
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Kasumeat posted:Isn't Alberta the literal most expensive place to buy wine in the entire world? And NZ wine is the most expensive in the world in terms of average bottle price, so combining the two isn't pretty. It's possibly the most expensive place. I know that our spirits are still well cheaper than Quebec, but I wasn't into wine like I am now when I lived in QC so I'm not sure. I see that we have some of those other brands here, but it seems to be more of a wish-list thing -- "available in 3+ days" which often means "not available at all." There are definitely a lot of brands available here that produce a Chardonnay, but the Chardonnays all seem to be unavailable. Stoneleigh I believe I can find (based on a search of the AGLC's website), but I've not had thrilling experiences with their wines in the past. Thanks for the advice, though! Hopefully someday we can ship wine inter-provincially and I won't be constantly frustrated.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:28
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Kasumeat posted:Stoneleigh is definitely my least favourite of those recs, however it's $10 and one of the few $10 Chards that are drinkable. Okay, we're definitely getting hosed in Alberta. $18.29 retail for the Stoneleigh. My usual Chardonnay pick in the $20 range is Marques de Casa Concha (probably like $11-12 in Ontario...), which I can often find on special for $15 or so.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:26
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Well, the Cloudy Bay isn't what I'd call affordable, but I think it was worth it. I'm not an expert, but I'd say: the nose hits me like a warm-climate Chardonnay, with more oak than I'd normally care for, but it's very nicely balanced with acidity and a wonderful lemon flavour midpalate. It's neither good enough nor cheap enough to be a regular purchase for me, but I think it's a very commendable wine and it's certainly piqued my curiosity for other NZ Chardonnays.
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Feb 4, 2016 04:00
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goferchan posted:It's a good deal out at a restaurant but unless the red is priced way differently than the white is, the restaurant wasn't losing money or anything. We pay (or, used to, I think I'm dropping it) $12 a bottle where I work for the white blend and charge like $34 for it. Honestly the 110 bottle that goes at RETAIL for 44 sounds like the screwier markup situation to me. Most restaurants around here tend to do a markup of around 2.5-2.75 times on lower-end wines (on wholesale, not retail price) from what I've seen. There's a restaurant around that has a nice white Burgundy for near-retail because they inherited a whole bunch of it from the previous incarnation/management of the restaurant and they just want it to be gone. I always order a few glasses whenever I go there, because the rest of the wine program is not so impressive, neither in terms of value nor quality.
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Feb 5, 2016 21:45
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Well, don't make the mistake I just made. If you're going to buy wines above your normal price "for a special occasion," make a special occasion if you can't find one in the drinking window. Otherwise, you'll end up opening it on a fairly normal night anyway because you'll be scared it's past its peak, and you'll unfortunately be absolutely right... At least this was just a Catena Alta Cab Sauv from 2007. It was well above what I'd normally spend at the time I bought it, but now it's only slightly above average and nowhere near a "special occasion" wine anyway.
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Feb 6, 2016 03:44
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himajinga posted:Not to quote Sideways or anything but opening a nice bottle IS a special enough occasion Yeah, I very much agree with this attitude. Ironically, the Catena Alta was maybe $40 or $45 when I bought it, owning to our lovely exchange rate and awful taxes, but I just picked up a bottle of white Burgundy for $50 today, and I'm going to drink it tomorrow because "gently caress it, I want to, and I'm cooking myself a nice meal that will complement it beautifully." Maybe it was a mental block, but either way I don't want to do it again, and I don't want other people to make the same mistake. I haven't opened a good bottle of wine and had someone dislike it, but I did once get a whole fuckload of jamon iberico de bellota for a tasting and got a lukewarm reaction at best. I feel I was duly compensated by the fact I got to eat the vast majority of it with no complaint, while the cost was split, mind you 
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Feb 6, 2016 05:01
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now that I've started buying wine more seriously, I have a fair amount of bottles that are $45-$100 in my cellar, so "because it's ready and I'm excited to drink it" is becoming more and more the reason I'm opening nice bottles these days. I love wine and don't need much excuse anymore, and while taking a nice bottle to dinner with friends is wonderful, so is drinking a beautiful Syrah with my fiancée while watching Netflix because we both appreciate the wine.
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Ola posted:Agreeing so much. The wine is the occasion. Wasn't there a '59 first growth posted in this thread with a mortal fill level that had never found a special enough occasion? In this spirit, I'm drinking my first bottle of white 1er cru burgundy tonight Just Because (Marc Colin et Fils Saint-Aubin La Chateniere 2011). So far, it's loving fantastic. Not the best white wine I've ever had, but solidly in my top five (I must admit I have a soft spot for Spanish whites, particularly Ossian and all of Lopez de Heredia's offerings that I've had).
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Feb 7, 2016 02:25
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Kasumeat posted:Yeah I should have made that clearer: decanting is basically a rough-but-quick way of aging wine. As for prices, it definitely does depend on your market. Here it's closer to $20 that I expect wines to benefit from age, but I think in most of the US it's definitely lower than that, although maybe $10 is a bit optimistic. And as you say, the origin of the wine matters too: $10 is entering premium territory for Chile, but it's bulk for California. So there's no easy rule, but I when I think of what you can get for $10 in the US, I think of Ch Ste Michelle, Gerard Betrand, Cono Sur Bicicleta, etc. Those are all exceptional QPR though, so I suppose it's unfair of me to say they're typical of what you get for $10. I think I've mentioned it before, but since you touched on it: I love Chilean wine at pretty much every price point for its QPR. From Cono Sur Bicicleta to Marques de Casa Concha to Don Melchor, I haven't found a Chilean wine that wasn't worth more than what I paid for it. I also like the fact that they tend to be less fruit-forward than other new world regions, since that's more to my personal taste.
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Feb 11, 2016 04:18
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Kasumeat posted:I've heard great things about Chilean wine from respectable wine people, but I've never had a Chilean wine better than mediocre. I think of Chile as a) tremendous value for ultra-modern Cab and Syrah, b) ultra-green Sauvignon Blanc without the passion-fruit or grapefruit charm of NZ, and c) a source for oaky and sweet Pinot Noir which is priced much better than its Californian equivalent so is actually possible to list for less than $18 a glass. I often recommend it to people who normally drink California and would like to pay one-third the price for equal quality, but if they actually make elegant wine I'm yet to see it. As a big fan of Chilean wines, let me say you're not wrong. My theory with "value wines" in general is that they aren't necessarily bad, so much as they need to be tailored toward one's individual taste. I haven't tried any of the Sauv Blanc, so I can't speak to that, my experiences with the Pinot Noir have been limited but poor, and I'd absolutely agree that Carmenere is terrible 99% of the time. The few Chardonnays I've tried have impressed me for the price, mainly because they aren't oaked all to gently caress like everything from the US, but aren't completely unoaked, and in a limited market I'll take what I can get. I've had great experiences with red blends and Cab Sauvs, though -- Cousino-Macul Finis Terrae stands out as a particularly great QPR. Also, if you don't think Don Melchor is both a great wine and a decent value... then tell me what I should be drinking instead, because I think it destroys most everything I've had at a similar price-point (which is admittedly not a price range I'm very familiar with...) I haven't explored as much Argentine wine as I probably should because I find the idea of supporting the Argentine government on any level to be a disgusting proposition. I may be missing out.
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Feb 12, 2016 07:41
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Kasumeat posted:I'm not sure where you're finding you're Chilean Chardonnay, but oaked all to gently caress is definitely the typical style. 99% of producers are trying to emulate the Californian Chardonnay of the late 90s/early 00s, and for the most part succeeding. Which producers that are going for more elegance can you recommend? The only one I can think of offhand is Marques de Casa Concha, and while it's still noticeably oaky, it's much less oaky than the worst offenders from California, or even Catena Alta. I'm not sure whether that's a one-of or if that's reflective of the country's style in general, because I don't have that much experience. I don't see it coming even close to Burgundy, well, ever, but I'm more willing to continue to explore it as compared with Washington State or California because I've got the "holy gently caress, did someone put maple syrup in this?" versions way too many times from those regions (at every price-point, too). If you could steer me toward some North American chardonnays that are more elegant, I'd be down for that too, because my current strategy of basically picking at random has not proved successful. I usually pick a producer that I've had good wines from in the past, but this has not worked out for me very well with North American wines the same way it has with other regions.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:45
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I tried a bottle of the Montes Alpha Chardonnay, and it's definitely oakier than I would prefer, but it's not as over-oaked as some chards can be. Decent QPR but I think I'd rather just spend a bit more and grab a village white burgundy most of the time. Marques de Casa Concha is both cheaper and more to my taste, if we want to compare Chilean to Chilean. It has been growing on me even so... The Wente seems to be available up here, very near me even, so I'll give it a go just to compare.
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Feb 13, 2016 03:35
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Kasumeat posted:Do Ontario wines make it to your market? They're making the best cool-climate Chardonnay in North America, although in the US I imagine they're somewhat less of a bargain than here. The state of the Dollar might change that soon though. I can't recommend much from California because the big names are outrageously overpriced compared to the rest of the New World (though certainly less so within the US market) and I'm unfamiliar with smaller producers than don't export. For "inexpensive" options, I guess Rodney Strong Sonoma Chard and Ramey would be my picks. For premium, there are lots of options, but I wouldn't call any of them decent value: Au Bon Climat, Kistler, and Sandhi. Ridge was pretty reliable too up until their 2013 vintage which was terrible. But if I were you I'd look to New Zealand, Australia, or South Africa (Elgin and Hemel-en-Aarde). I'm in Alberta. Oddly enough, I don't think we get many Ontario wines -- the Canadian wine section is heavily dominated by BC wines out here. I had the Ramey Chardonnay during my WSET level 1 class a year or two back and I actually found it very oaky for my taste, but I'd be willing to revisit it, since back then I hardly drank any white wine at all so I didn't have the reference points I do now. I'll definitely try to find some Ontario chardonnays, though -- I have to assume there are some good ones that make it out here, it's not even a different country after all!
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Feb 13, 2016 06:10
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Since we were discussing Chilean Carmenere the other day, and how awful most of it is, I thought I'd let everyone know I found one that isn't awful: Grey Glacier Single Block Carmenere. It's still very... herbal, I would call it, so it probably won't be to everyone's taste, but its got a decent QPR and the flavour profile makes for some interesting food pairing possibilities. It's definitely the best Carmenere I've had so far, although, as discussed, that's not saying a whole bunch on its own.
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Feb 18, 2016 18:44
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Secret Spoon posted:Had a bottle of terrunyo a little while ago and I remember it being pretty good. Having had several carmenere I don't think I have had an awful bottle yet. Maybe my taste is bad? That's actually one of the first Carmeneres I remember drinking, and I didn't care for it at all. It's probably just a matter of personal taste -- I'm guessing I'm more sensitive to the specific flavours that cause some people to not enjoy Carmenere, since I've noticed the same elements I don't enjoy across a number of different examples.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:23
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So I just started my WSET Level 2 course. It's pretty awesome and reminded me that I need to drink more cool wines like Barolos and Alsace Grand Crus. Compared to "retail" wine tastings, it's nice because the focus is on the wine itself and not trying to convince you that you should buy the wine. Oh, and we tried a "very good" oaky-as-gently caress California chardonnay. Turns out, I'm just really not a fan of that style at all, so I guess I'm going to have to learn more about what makes wines in that style either good or bad without reference to my personal feelings about it. The class seemed split on whether it was better than the Chablis Grand Cru we tasted just before it, whereas I thought the Chablis Grand Cru was heads and shoulders above it.
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Feb 25, 2016 18:51
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Comb Your Beard posted:Thanks to whoever gave me that Vouvray Chenin Blanc rec, that was the best of few Loire Valley bottles I purchased. Really quite remarkable. I'm glad you enjoyed it! Now don't tell anyone or it will get expensive and hard to find
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Mar 9, 2016 19:27
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Crimson posted:Non-existent market in SF. I've had some, and it can be quite good, but there is zero demand and it's on almost zero wine lists. How about at retail? I can't remember seeing it on a wine list in Calgary ever, but it's pretty widely available from stores. New question: is there a place where the sparkling wine section isn't being taken over by Prosecco? It's just so... not to my taste, and meanwhile the Cava selection is the same boring 3-5 low-quality items that have actually led to Raventos, among others, no longer putting "Cava" on their bottles... Don't even get me started on trying to find an Italian white that isn't Pinot Grigio. It's unbelievably important, apparently, that every liquor store has at least 20 SKUs all at the very bottom of the market, yet perhaps (if you're lucky) a single Soave Clasico, for example. Edit: Yeah, take three guesses which two types of wine I was attempting to track down with extremely limited success yesterday, and your first two guesses don't count.
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Mar 12, 2016 15:42
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Building on this, does it matter if wines with a screw-top are stored horizontally instead of vertically?
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Mar 13, 2016 19:18
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A gallery of wine labels is actually a decent idea. Vivino has a huge number of specimens already linked to their pertinent details, so it seems like it would be trivial to add more searchable characteristics to each label and it would increase the utility of their database by quite a bit.
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Mar 13, 2016 22:58
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I'm drinking a Coonawarra Cab Sauv for the first time right now, and I'm getting like a green, salty flavour on the finish I can't quite describe. It reminds me of seaweed, or maybe a little bit of oyster liquor. Is this what's described as "eucalyptus?" It's not unpleasant, in fact it's really growing on me, but I sure as gently caress didn't expect it, and I don't think I've tasted it before. Edit: it's Nugan Estate Alcira Vineyard, if that helps any. PT6A fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 05:34
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Kasumeat posted:The green aroma is pyrazines, a family of aromatics that smell like jalapeno and green bell pepper. It is indeed a signature of Coonawara Cab, though it's present in most Bordeaux grapes (Cabs Sauv and Franc, Merlot, and tons in Carmenere) to varying degrees unless they're extremely ripe. The eucalyptus aroma is a little contentious, but it's a minty aroma and the general theory is that it's caused by eucalyptus leaves literally falling into the ferment. It's not related to pyrazines, but they have a synergistic effect because both taste "green." The saltiness is also unrelated and is once again contentious, but the prevailing theory is it's once again an effect of minerals getting directly into the ferment. Usually through a salty see breeze, but in this case it would be the fine dusty soil which easily becomes airborne. And finally, "seaweed" and "oyster liquor" suggest umami which is often present in pyrazinic reds. Thanks for the in-depth response! It all makes good sense. I'll have to try some other examples from Coonawarra to see how they compare. Goddamnit, the expansion of my wine hobby is not good for my wallet, is it?
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Mar 16, 2016 18:31
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Kasumeat posted:Wynn's Black Label is one of the best Cabs in the world and ridiculously affordable. Definitely seek that out. It ages really well too so grab an older example if possible. Will do, I actually remember seeing it at the store and passing it over.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:18
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Are pyrazines particularly volatile? I had a taste of the Nugan Estate again this morning, and whatever taste I was getting last night was considerably less pronounced. I picked up a bottle of the Wynns Black Label too, so I'll see how they compare side by side a bit later on. EDIT: It seems like what I was tasting was definitely a feature of the specific wine or vineyard, rather than the region. The Wynns Black Label is loving awesome (thanks for the recommendation!), but it doesn't have the same green/umami thing. The Nugan Estate is a slightly lesser quality wine overall, in my judgement, but I really like its cool, idiosyncratic nature. I'm glad to have had an occasion to try more good Australian wines, because I have to confess to holding a prejudice against them based on my earlier experiments with their mass-market offerings (and mainly based on their style of Shiraz, which would be the same as judging all of America based on the fact I don't really like prototypical Napa Cab Sauvs). PT6A fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 00:22
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SonicDefiance posted:If they're available where you are, I'd try to hunt down some cab and cab blends from the Margaret River (Western Australia) region... far superior to Coonawarra imo (though admittedly different), and definitely more consistent. FWIW, there've been many favourable comparisons to Bordeaux - think "Bordeaux, with a new world slant". That sounds right up my alley, and I'm definitely trying to familiarize myself with any good region I can find wines from. I know there were some Margaret River Cab Sauvs at the liquor store but I went for Coonawarra as it was mentioned more prominently in the WSET text I'm reading. That sounds like a good mission for next week...
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Mar 17, 2016 02:54
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It could very easily be some combination of both factors. The fact that it seems to depend on how close your vines are to eucalyptus trees would seem to suggest the eucalyptus trees are in some way responsible, but the fact that the same flavour is present in wines that are produced where no eucalyptus trees exist suggests that it could be the biochemistry of the grape. I don't think it has to be one or the other.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:26
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Now that I'm trying to get a feel for individual GIs in the new world, particularly Down Under, it's frustrating how few wines from, say, Margaret River or Hawke's Bay, actually get stocked. Barossa or Marlborough? Easy as all gently caress. Coming out of everyone's ears. This is after my adventure on Saturday to do my WSET "homework" and taste a white Bordeaux. It's loving near impossible to find a good example (read: anything above Mouton Cadet). I'm not going to tiny wine stores that lack for shelf space or selection, either -- some of these stores are stocking first and second growth Bordeaux, so clearly they aren't just catering to mass-market stuff. What am I doing wrong?
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Mar 22, 2016 01:02
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Kasumeat posted:White Bordeaux is indeed hard to find. Make sure you're getting the classic style, which is mostly from Graves, barrique-aged, rich, and typically at least $30. Chateau de Cruzeau is an exception: a great producer who clocks in at only $25 here. The stuff you'll find for $20 or less is typically generic neutral white or occasionally some pleasant Sauvignon Blancs, but not the classic style. Yeah, I ended up getting a Chateau La Garde Blanc 2010, from a store way out in the 'burbs (which is my only knock on it... they have a very good selection and the service has always been great). It was worth going out of my way, no question. The real piss off was that they had at least a dozen different selections of (dry) white Bordeaux, some in multiple vintages, and apparently I didn't even go to the "collectables" area, while I'd been to three other stores that didn't have a goddamn thing.
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Mar 22, 2016 01:54
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Drinking some Felton Road Bannockburn Chardonnay. This could certainly pass for a village Burgundy, possibly even higher, and the price is extremely competitive at that quality level. New Zealand is putting out some good stuff, holy poo poo.
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Apr 7, 2016 02:15
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I like variations in handmade products, but I don't like gambling whether something's going to be good or outright faulted -- that's too much variation for me. Corks will arguably never improve a wine at this point, since screwtop closures are now able to replicate the most desirable features of cork, so in the best case scenario, you get an identical product. In the worst case, you get a cork that's difficult to remove, or a wine that's faulted. All for what? The "experience" of popping a cork? I'm really, really glad to see more high-end wines opting to go with screw-top closures, personally. EDIT: Out of curiosity, are there any sparkling wines that have moved to non-cork closures? I can't recall seeing any sparking wine without a traditional cork-and-cage closure at any price point. PT6A fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 15:49
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Skinny posted:It's happening, but slowly. Certain clientele continue to have expectations regarding closures that aren't going to go away no matter what anyone says. As a somm, I've tried to 'convince' my guests that screw caps are not an indication of quality in and of themselves, but that isn't going to stop the occasional individual from sending it back. There's definitely certain regions that have embraced screwtops more than others. The real irony in the situation you point out here is that the wines which can withstand and indeed which require more age, are the ones most likely to still be under a more fallible cork closure. That's the opposite of what I would want as a consumer. Still, I suppose if you value tradition purely for its own sake, it makes sense to use cork.
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Apr 11, 2016 14:26
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As long as consumers are attached to cork (or, alternately, if they simply look down on packaging other than a cork-closed bottle) , it's rational for winemakers to close their bottle with corks. However, it's not rational for a consumer, at this point, to judge a wine as being even likely to be lesser quality because of the closure or packaging it's in, given the vast number of counterexamples currently available. How did all the winemakers Down Under convince people that screw-tops were perfectly acceptable, I wonder? They've certainly taken to it with a greater enthusiasm than pretty much anyone else, and drinking a lot of really commendable Aussie and Kiwi wine under screwtop was a big factor in convincing me that I want cork to vanish. Were their primary consumers less picky, more informed, more open-minded, less attached to tradition, or had less of a negative association with screwtops (perhaps because there were fewer poor wines bottled with a screwtop closure)?
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Apr 12, 2016 01:32
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I think almost all wine-drinkers romanticize wine to some degree, though. Speaking for myself, the only difference is that my attachment to wine doesn't extend to the container it comes in. But for some people it does, and that's okay. In terms of traditional closures and personal affinity for them, I wish that more winemakers would wax-seal their cork-closed bottles like Lopez de Heredia does, personally. It's cool and good, and although I'm not dealing with a large sample size at all (roughly 4), I've never seen a cork come out in less than ideal condition. Go big or go home, IMO.
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Apr 12, 2016 03:02
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Kasumeat posted:This discussion probably hasn't changed anyone's minds, but it has definitively proven that convincing some people is literally impossible. PNGB is saying that he likes having a corked bottle here and an oxidised bottle there. You certainly can't argue with people like that. I can see his point on oxidation, since I do love oxidative flavours in some wines (though I have no idea if oxidation from an imperfect cork is the same as that which occurs intentionally during fermentation or aging). Still, I'd prefer winemakers just experiment with allowing different degrees of oxidation. Ironically, I think natural wine would benefit most from an inert closure, since I would prefer to taste the natural variation that occurs from the growing and vinification rather than wondering what the closure might have imparted to the wine. But that's just me; I can see how allowing different degrees of oxidation to occur in natural wines during aging could be attractive (though TCA can gently caress itself permanently).
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Apr 12, 2016 03:12
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Jerome Louis posted:It's not just inconsistency really, it's that the flavors and aromas contributed from bad corks are gross. But if you like moldy basements then more power to you. Yeah, it seems like using a cork to achieve inconsistency between bottles and vintages is a rather artificial thing, ironically, when compared with the inconsistencies introduced because of vintage variation or natural winemaking techniques. You could achieve bottle variation by hiring a man to piss in every 20th bottle, but I don't know why you would want that.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:14
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There are far too many Pinot Grigios, they are drowning out the few decent examples, other Italian whites, and other light white wines in general. Who do I blame for this plague? Is it a production issue, an importation issue, or a stocking issue?
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Apr 22, 2016 01:20
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Kasumeat posted:Consumers, for drinking them. The truth is a lot of people don't like wine, they like moderately alcoholic lemon water. I was about to say, "you're right, but why do we need so many different varieties?" and then I thought about the average beer selection at a liquor store or pub. "Which variety of lovely lager would you like today?" So, yeah, you're right, and I guess the rest is a triumph of marketing.  Is there a wine equivalent of overwrought IPAs -- something flavourful, occasionally done well, but frequently unbalanced and increasingly generic?
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Apr 22, 2016 05:16
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