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Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Weltlich posted:

Hey Cocktail Thread - I need help.

tl;dr version: I'm a distiller, and I make an awesome gin that uses a clean white rum as a base spirit instead of grain neutral spirits. I had originally designed it as a "sipping gin" that can be enjoyed neat, but as a byproduct of the rum base, we've discovered that it makes incredible Tiki cocktails as well.

So, I need more tiki, or tiki inspired cocktails to try, so I can start telling bartenders what to make this summer using my gin. As a note, the gin not a "dry" gin, and is somewhere between a Genever and New American style. It's not as sweet and cloying as an Old Tom gin, but it certainly retains a lot of the residual cane aroma from the rum base. The Juniper is sweet and fruity, and only slightly evergreen. The herb set is lemongrass, lemon balm, tulsi kapoor, and lemon peel, with florals like calendula and chamomile rounding out the set.

Ones I've tried so far:

- Planter's Punch. I tried a variant of planter's punch that was a crowd pleaser around the office. Went down all too smoothly and was honestly a little dangerous.
- Singapore Sling. Similar to the punch, but a little drier and more on the sour spectrum rather than the sweet. It was still enjoyed greatly and was refreshing.
- Rum Swizzle. Def. on the sweeter and slightly heavier side, but the addition of the herb set mean that it had that instead of the Angostura. I tried it both ways, (with and without Angostura) and it's delightful with either.
- An un-named concoction that's 2oz Gin, 1.5oz Cointreau, a dash of orange bitters, and garnished with a orange twist. Not sure what it should be called, but it's good.

Ones that will be tried in the next 24 hours:

-A Mai Tai
-A Royal Hawaiian


If there are others that I should be trying, please let me know here. I have orgeat syrup on hand, but finding Falernum in Vermont is like hunting for the grail, so that might have to wait for next week and I'll order some in.

Thanks in advance!
I don't want to tell you your profession, but if you're trying to showcase a spirit, I'm not sure why you'd go the tiki route. Tiki tends to involve a lot of carefully balanced ingredients, often rare ingredients, carefully balanced to create unique flavours. Not to mention time consuming preparation. (In my life I've seen two kinds of tiki bars: ones that take 20 minutes to make a drink that is absolutely worth the wait, and ones that don't actually have the ingredients or knowhow to make a Singapore Sling.) Is your target market high-end bars?

If you told me to try a new gin in a cocktail, I'd make a gimlet, a Bee's Knees, a Pegu Club, maybe even a French 75. I want all the botanicals to come from the gin itself.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 18:38

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Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

o fuk traffic

The Saturn is the cocktail you seek, my dude:

http://imbibemagazine.com/saturn-cocktail/

1½ oz. gin
½ oz. fresh lemon juice
¼ oz. passion fruit purée
½ oz. orgeat
¼ oz. velvet falernum
Tools: blender
Glass: rocks
Garnish: lime twist wrapped around a cherry

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006

The glass is fully empty!




Grimey Drawer

Halloween Jack posted:

I don't want to tell you your profession, but if you're trying to showcase a spirit, I'm not sure why you'd go the tiki route. Tiki tends to involve a lot of carefully balanced ingredients, often rare ingredients, carefully balanced to create unique flavours. Not to mention time consuming preparation. (In my life I've seen two kinds of tiki bars: ones that take 20 minutes to make a drink that is absolutely worth the wait, and ones that don't actually have the ingredients or knowhow to make a Singapore Sling.) Is your target market high-end bars?

If you told me to try a new gin in a cocktail, I'd make a gimlet, a Bee's Knees, a Pegu Club, maybe even a French 75. I want all the botanicals to come from the gin itself.

The market is high end bars for sure, and the reason I'm pursuing the tiki angle is basically trying to burst out of the niche that Gin's in. What we've found when marketing our gin is that everyone already seems to have a favorite gin for Gin and Tonic, or Martini, or Gimlet, etc. (And honestly I'm right there with you - I want people to recognize the gin on it's own merits, because I'm proud of it, and it's a fantastic gin, goddamnit.) So what I'm trying to basically find some of the simpler tiki drinks (punches, etc) and say "Look, want to put another spin on your Mai Tai? Give this a shot, and you won't even need to use bitters."

And it makes a killer French 75.

Edit: The Pegu Club is also a choice pick, and I realize now that's more or less what I was making with the Gin/Cointreau. I think that may be a good go-to.

Weltlich fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 19:16

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006

The glass is fully empty!




Grimey Drawer

Fart Car '97 posted:

The Saturn is the cocktail you seek, my dude:

http://imbibemagazine.com/saturn-cocktail/

1½ oz. gin
½ oz. fresh lemon juice
¼ oz. passion fruit purée
½ oz. orgeat
¼ oz. velvet falernum
Tools: blender
Glass: rocks
Garnish: lime twist wrapped around a cherry

I like it, my hesitation is the passion fruit puree. I can get bars to order falernum and orgeat, but maybe I can put a spin on that with a local fruit substituted for the passion fruit. Maybe blueberry or strawberry? They both are coming into season here.

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


So is this gin on the market yet? How do I get it into my dumb face? I'm very interested in putting it in French 75s and Airmails.

Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

o fuk traffic

Weltlich posted:

I like it, my hesitation is the passion fruit puree. I can get bars to order falernum and orgeat, but maybe I can put a spin on that with a local fruit substituted for the passion fruit. Maybe blueberry or strawberry? They both are coming into season here.

A 1L frozen passionfruit puree container from Boiron is $10, which is enough to make 120ish servings. you can re-freeze it into smaller potions, which you can thaw as necessary and prevent waste.

You can sub something else in but it would have to be very acidic in order to be a good sub.

The Hebug
May 24, 2004
I am a bug...

Weltlich posted:

Hey Cocktail Thread - I need help.

tl;dr version: I'm a distiller, and I make an awesome gin that uses a clean white rum as a base spirit instead of grain neutral spirits. I had originally designed it as a "sipping gin" that can be enjoyed neat, but as a byproduct of the rum base, we've discovered that it makes incredible Tiki cocktails as well.

So, I need more tiki, or tiki inspired cocktails to try, so I can start telling bartenders what to make this summer using my gin. As a note, the gin not a "dry" gin, and is somewhere between a Genever and New American style. It's not as sweet and cloying as an Old Tom gin, but it certainly retains a lot of the residual cane aroma from the rum base. The Juniper is sweet and fruity, and only slightly evergreen. The herb set is lemongrass, lemon balm, tulsi kapoor, and lemon peel, with florals like calendula and chamomile rounding out the set.


A scorpion bowl comes to mind.

bloody ghost titty
Oct 23, 2008

tHROW SOME D"s ON THAT BIZNATCH


What’s the dang gin, where are you sourcing your rum, and can I drink it already?

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008



Hey cocktail goons, due to a shortage or some bs I can't get luxardo maraschino here. Is bols any good? Mainly using it for aviations.

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006

The glass is fully empty!




Grimey Drawer

Toast Museum posted:

So is this gin on the market yet? How do I get it into my dumb face? I'm very interested in putting it in French 75s and Airmails.


bloody ghost titty posted:

What’s the dang gin, where are you sourcing your rum, and can I drink it already?

I make my own rum! We're a raw-ingredient-to-bottle operation. Sugar and molasses come in, bottled gin and (soon) rum goes out. If you're in Vermont, you can find Joe's Pond Gin at any of the state liquor stores. If you're in California, start bugging your local retailer to bring us in, because we're distributed through libdib.com now. (If you're in CA and want it, message me and I'll fill you in on details so I don't clog this thread with that.). I've got a thread over in A/T about distilling if you're curious about more.


Fart Car '97 posted:

A 1L frozen passionfruit puree container from Boiron is $10, which is enough to make 120ish servings. you can re-freeze it into smaller potions, which you can thaw as necessary and prevent waste.

You can sub something else in but it would have to be very acidic in order to be a good sub.


Oh nice. I was under the impression they'd have to make it from scratch. And to some extent I'm trying to pick simpler recipes to overcome the hurdle. (And I am aware of the irony of coming up with non-effort tiki drinks.)


The Hebug posted:

A scorpion bowl comes to mind.

Good call! I'll add this to my list to try out.

So the MaiTai and the Royal Hawaiian both worked out very well - the orgeat tends to play very nicely with the herb set that my gin uses, and they're really harmonious in the linger. The Royal Hawaiian in particular was delicious and fairly easy to make, so I think I prefer suggesting it over the MaiTai. And I still need to make a Pegu Club.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

I got some tonic syrup. Anyone wanna recommend cocktails for this thing?

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006

The glass is fully empty!




Grimey Drawer

bunnyofdoom posted:

Hey cocktail goons, due to a shortage or some bs I can't get luxardo maraschino here. Is bols any good? Mainly using it for aviations.

As long as it's a maraschino liqueur and not a cherry liqueur, it ought to be fine. Bols isn't top shelf, but I've generally been happier with their stuff over most other "cheap" brands.

Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

o fuk traffic

It's not nearly as funky as luxardo

Fart Car '97 fucked around with this message at Jun 16, 2018 around 00:00

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006

The glass is fully empty!




Grimey Drawer

Fart Car '97 posted:

It's not nearly as funky as luxardo

Yeah, Bols is def. not my first pic for an aviator, but if there's no Luxardo to be had I'd still go with Bols as long as it's actually a maraschino as opposed to a "cherry". I guess you could also try blending something a little sour/bitter and something like Amaretto into a mix of cherry and orange liqueur to make an ersatz Luxardo. It's the cherry pit that really makes the flavor, and I'm hard pressed to think of a way to copy that with ingredients that would be easier to find. It's not really fruity, it's not overly sweet, it's an odd duck but it really works in so many things.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Lazzaroni's is pretty good if your area has that.

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008



Sadly Ontario blows and all I got is luxardo or Bols. Maybe if I go across the river to an SAQ....

poop dood
May 31, 2011

$#$%^&@@*!!!


It's definitely not a perfect 1:1 substitution, but on the more fun side of things I like to swap in Benedictine when riffing on classic cocktails that traditionally include Luxardo. Maybe try that, it would probably be cool with the creme de violette.

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


Update: fresh watermelon juiced pressed according my pineapple method makes for a loving stellar Mimosa variant, especially with just a dash of green Chartreuse.

Since I first asked my question I've committed to making a Mint Soap pre-batch for the party as well, so for the punch I'm going to go for gin and basil instead of rum and mint, for variety. I'm considering using champagne yeast to carbonate the watermelon juice, but miiiiiight do a still gin punch for the first time ever. Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions, I've been iterating upon the idea and it's looking awesome.

Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

o fuk traffic

You're not going to get an appreciable level of carbonation by just pitching the yeast into the watermelon juice.


E: you'll also yield more pineapple juice by just throwing the chunks into a blender and squeezing the pulp as opposed to hand mashing them. That's how most every bar that uses fresh pineapple juices them.

Fart Car '97 fucked around with this message at Jun 18, 2018 around 05:01

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


I've done both, and the method I described yields a notably superior product. By not obliterating the pulp with a blender I'm able to yield a clearer, lighter juice. The difference in yield is probably primarily included pulp, since my leftover pulp is quite dry of juice. Ideally I would use some sort of mechanical press, but I've yet to encounter a consumer product that would achieve that. Professional operations have both more resources and different imperatives than someone working at home.

Also yes, if I wanted to carbonate the watermelon juice I would add sugar to feed the yeast.

Kenning fucked around with this message at Jun 18, 2018 around 07:19

Weltlich
Feb 13, 2006

The glass is fully empty!




Grimey Drawer

Kenning posted:

I've done both, and the method I described yields a notably superior product. By not obliterating the pulp with a blender I'm able to yield a clearer, lighter juice. The difference in yield is probably primarily included pulp, since my leftover pulp is quite dry of juice. Ideally I would use some sort of mechanical press, but I've yet to encounter a consumer product that would achieve that. Professional operations have both more resources and different imperatives than someone working at home.

Also yes, if I wanted to carbonate the watermelon juice I would add sugar to feed the yeast.

So if you're after a watermelon sparkling wine, go for the sugar and yeast method. If you just want it to sparkle though, without the flavor and alcohol change that yeast would induce, then you might want to try this:

https://www.amazon.com/Carbonation-...t/dp/B01039C0Z0

Whereas a normal SodaStream might get really messy with watermelon juice, this would use a standard 1L or 2L plastic drink bottle, and you pressurize it with CO2, then shake the poo poo out of it to let the liquid carbonate. It requires a little investment, but it's very multi-purpose (you can make all sorts of other things with it), and the CO2 bottles you get from AirGas or a similar source are a whole lot cheaper than the ones from SodaStream.

Ben Nevis
Jan 20, 2011


I seem to recall you can carbonate fruit by just throwing it in a cooler with some dry ice. Would that work with just juice? That seems easier/cheaper for a one of type thing.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

I'm glad I looked it up before I tried putting milk in my Sodastream.

Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

o fuk traffic

Weltlich posted:


https://www.amazon.com/Carbonation-...t/dp/B01039C0Z0

Whereas a normal SodaStream might get really messy with watermelon juice, this would use a standard 1L or 2L plastic drink bottle, and you pressurize it with CO2, then shake the poo poo out of it to let the liquid carbonate. It requires a little investment, but it's very multi-purpose (you can make all sorts of other things with it), and the CO2 bottles you get from AirGas or a similar source are a whole lot cheaper than the ones from SodaStream.

This is how we force carbonate at the bar. Works awesome. Just made sure everything is as cold as it can possibly be when you charge it.

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


Weltlich posted:

So if you're after a watermelon sparkling wine, go for the sugar and yeast method. If you just want it to sparkle though, without the flavor and alcohol change that yeast would induce, then you might want to try this:

https://www.amazon.com/Carbonation-...t/dp/B01039C0Z0

Whereas a normal SodaStream might get really messy with watermelon juice, this would use a standard 1L or 2L plastic drink bottle, and you pressurize it with CO2, then shake the poo poo out of it to let the liquid carbonate. It requires a little investment, but it's very multi-purpose (you can make all sorts of other things with it), and the CO2 bottles you get from AirGas or a similar source are a whole lot cheaper than the ones from SodaStream.

So with this would I just need a standard CO2 canister like you can get at Airgas? Cause that would be sick as hell.


Ben Nevis posted:

I seem to recall you can carbonate fruit by just throwing it in a cooler with some dry ice. Would that work with just juice? That seems easier/cheaper for a one of type thing.

I've definitely gotten carbonated punch when I've used dry ice, but also some sludge precipitates out at the bottom. Could be an interesting low-tech option though.

gwrtheyrn
Oct 21, 2010

AYYYE DEEEEE DUBBALYOO DA-NYAAAAAH!


Kenning posted:

So with this would I just need a standard CO2 canister like you can get at Airgas? Cause that would be sick as hell.


I've definitely gotten carbonated punch when I've used dry ice, but also some sludge precipitates out at the bottom. Could be an interesting low-tech option though.

Canister + regulator + ball lock disconnect gas line. I would probably get a metal one since it's cheaper to replace the bottles than the cap. If you're not going to do a ton, there might be a way to hook up co2 cartridges which likely be cheaper in the short term

Totally Reasonable
Jan 8, 2008

aaag mirrors


Ben Nevis posted:

I seem to recall you can carbonate fruit by just throwing it in a cooler with some dry ice. Would that work with just juice? That seems easier/cheaper for a one of type thing.

Ideally you'd want a pressure vessel of some kind. I managed to carbonate about 5 gallons of tequila/gatorade jungle juice by throwing a hunk of dry ice in the cooler and parking my fat rear end on top to keep it closed. No reason that wouldn't work on something that actually tastes good.

Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

o fuk traffic

Well gently caress me we made the finalists for the TOTC Spirited Awards Best American Bar Team this year

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


Fart Car '97 posted:

Well gently caress me we made the finalists for the TOTC Spirited Awards Best American Bar Team this year

Congratulations! Columbia Room, right?

bloody ghost titty
Oct 23, 2008

tHROW SOME D"s ON THAT BIZNATCH


Fart Car '97 posted:

Well gently caress me we made the finalists for the TOTC Spirited Awards Best American Bar Team this year

It will be the honor of your career to get trounced by Herbs and Rye, congrats my dude.

Ralith
Jan 12, 2011

I see a ship in the harbor
I can and shall obey
But if it wasn't for your misfortune
I'd be a heavenly person today


gwrtheyrn posted:

Canister + regulator + ball lock disconnect gas line. I would probably get a metal one since it's cheaper to replace the bottles than the cap. If you're not going to do a ton, there might be a way to hook up co2 cartridges which likely be cheaper in the short term
I've been doing this for years, and helped a few friends build their own. Can confirm, works great, and a CO2 tank will hold its pressure more or less indefinitely if you close the main valve when you're not using it.

I actually detailed my setup in this thread a while back:

Ralith posted:

Shaking the bottle is a necessary step--you have to literally mix the CO2 in, or else it won't dissolve in any reasonable amount of time. Why do you want to avoid that? You don't even need to shake any more than you do a good cocktail. Less, really.

Assuming you're willing to see the light and do a little light shaking, here's your shopping list. Unless otherwise noted, I strongly recommend the specific item linked over alternatives.

This should run you a bit under $200 in total. My 20lb CO2 tank has lasted me more than a year and a half on its first fill, so don't be afraid to go smaller, but it only costs $15 to fill a 20lb tank, so don't be afraid to go big either.

Assembly:
  1. Remove the hose barb outlet fitting/cutoff/check valve assembly from the regulator
  2. Wrap a couple layers of teflon tape around the NPT threads (those are the ones that don't have a smooth tapered bit at the end) of the new JIC 37° output fitting, being careful to wind in the same direction as the threads so it doesn't bunch up when you screw it in
  3. Securely wrench the new fitting in place of the old one. You can use a fair amount of force here (NPT makes a seal by the threads squishing against eachother) but be careful that the shutoff valve ends up at a convenient angle when you're done wrenching, and don't strip anything.
  4. Screw the hose onto the output fitting on the regulator and onto the CMB gas outlet. Do not use a wrench--this only needs to be finger-tight.
  5. Screw the regulator onto the CO2 tank, using only moderate force. The seal here is made by an O-ring, so you only need to use enough force to be sure it's securely squished up against the tank opening

Use:
  1. Fill a soda bottle with something you want to be fizzy. Be sure it's very cold--CO2 dissolves much better in cold liquid. Leave 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle empty. If you can, shove some ice cubes in there with it to cool it down even more.
  2. Squish all the remaining air out of the bottle and screw "The Carbonator" onto it. You don't need to use too much force here, again, there's an O-ring.
  3. Set the regulator to the desired pressure as per its instructoins (I use 50PSI)
  4. Open the tank valve
  5. Open the cutoff valve
  6. Pull back on the ring of the CMB gas outlet and shove it down on the peg of "The Carbonator" for a second, then remove it. The bottle should pressurize dramatically.
  7. Shake vigorously. If what you're carbonating is mostly water and/or alcohol, the pressure should disappear from the bottle as the CO2 dissolves.
  8. Repeat previous two steps until shaking no longer results in a noticable pressure drop. Do not leave the gas outlet attached while shaking, or you'll get liquid into the hose, which will have to be cleaned out if you don't want crap growing in there.
  9. Close valves
  10. Leave the bottle to sit and settle for a little while to reduce foaming
  11. Open very carefully, watching for excessive foaming. If there's milk or cream in whatever you just carbonated, god help you.

If your system is perfectly assembled, you can in theory leave all the valves open and nothing will leak.

When considering drinks for carbonation, remember that dissolved CO2 in water forms carbonic acid, which means it'll make things somewhat more tart.

In retrospect, while the flared fittings and braided hose look nice, they're probably a lot leakier than the conventional hose barbs + rubber hose approach. Still, no big deal if you shut the main valve.

Ralith fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2018 around 20:44

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Fart Car '97
Jul 23, 2003

o fuk traffic

bloody ghost titty posted:

It will be the honor of your career to get trounced by Herbs and Rye, congrats my dude.

No way in hell sweet liberty doesn't take it

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