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Episode 100 of back to work was great because Dan was all pissy the whole time and then one of the callers brought up the topic of company loyalty and he went through the roof.
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Mar 14, 2013 14:06
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Oh I really need to listen to that one then 
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Mar 14, 2013 14:44
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I got into 5By5 near the end of 2012, caught the last ~15 build and analyzes and hypercriticals. How do the older episodes of each hold up? Are they mostly responding to current events and then-new product releases? I'm trying to figure out whether I'd enjoy going through the archives of each.
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May 10, 2013 07:17
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Malloreon posted:I got into 5By5 near the end of 2012, caught the last ~15 build and analyzes and hypercriticals. How do the older episodes of each hold up? Are they mostly responding to current events and then-new product releases? I'm trying to figure out whether I'd enjoy going through the archives of each. I'm over halfway through a go-back/re-listen of Hypercritical (I missed the first third or so as they were airing) and I'm thoroughly enjoying most of the episodes. There's the occasional clunker; maybe the show's about what was soon-to-be-released Apple hardware, or a current event that went stale quick (e.g. that guy whose phone kept ringing at the symphony). And to be honest I'm disliking Dan's interjections more than I did at the time. Overall it's very pleasant. Recommended if you enjoy the sultry sound of a studious Siracusa (sorry). edit: I didn't actually answer your question. I'd guess maybe half the episodes do not discuss then-current events, instead talking about video game controllers, file systems, backups, etc. Multiply by the (typically multi-show) followup generated by any topic and you've got a solid base of content beyond current event chat. pokeyman fucked around with this message at 07:33 on May 10, 2013 |
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May 10, 2013 07:30
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I'm also re-listening to Hypercritical, and I agree that it holds up very well. It was never really as focused on current events as some of the other shows. I haven't re-listened to Build and Analyze, but I remember it being more current events focused, so it might not hold up as well.pokeyman posted:And to be honest I'm disliking Dan's interjections more than I did at the time. Sounds like I'm not as far along in my re-listen (only listening to one new episode a week thanks to the awesome 5by5 Time Machine) but I definitely think that in the early episodes Dan didn't really have a feel for what kind of cohost John needed. He tried to steer the show more earlier on, but John barely needed a cohost at all. He always had plenty to say and planned almost exactly how he was going to say it. Looking back, I can see why the show involved so much prep time for him.
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May 10, 2013 12:02
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Diabolik900 posted:I'm also re-listening to Hypercritical, and I agree that it holds up very well. You're just saying that because your FU got read on-air! quote:Sounds like I'm not as far along in my re-listen (only listening to one new episode a week thanks to the awesome 5by5 Time Machine) but I definitely think that in the early episodes Dan didn't really have a feel for what kind of cohost John needed. He tried to steer the show more earlier on, but John barely needed a cohost at all. He always had plenty to say and planned almost exactly how he was going to say it. Looking back, I can see why the show involved so much prep time for him. Agreed on the early shows. The ones I'm on (40-60 range) Dan interrupts John with rambling explanations of something John just mentioned. It's unnecessary and unprepared. I do love Dan's complete inability to fill in the blanks John gives him. It's so awkward. I think John also struggled a bit with how to use his co-host.
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May 10, 2013 20:51
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pokeyman posted:You're just saying that because your FU got read on-air! The email I got back from him calling my Twitter use "sub-optimal" was one of the highlights of my internet life.
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May 10, 2013 21:00
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I sent in a FU and it never got read  (about the fighter plane discussion they had)
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May 10, 2013 21:11
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Diabolik900 posted:The email I got back from him calling my Twitter use "sub-optimal" was one of the highlights of my internet life. Do tell us what he was referring to...
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May 10, 2013 21:13
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Lexicon posted:Do tell us what he was referring to... He complained on one (or maybe multiple) episodes that more Twitter clients don't have Twitteriffic's unified timeline, where replies from people you don't follow show up in your main timeline. I haven't listened to the episode since it first came out, but I believe he said that he thought it would be a useful feature that would get a lot of people to use your app. I sent him an email basically saying that most Twitter users (especially people who aren't celebrities or internet celebrities) probably don't get enough replies to really make that a very important feature for them. Part of the email he sent back was that, "If you're not getting replies as some reasonable percentage of your tweets, that seems like a sub-optimal use of Twitter".
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May 10, 2013 21:29
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I've also noticed, on the Hypercritical re-listen, how much longer the ad segments get. Early episodes they're 30 seconds spots, but halfway through they're 60-120 seconds, plus spots for "sponsoring show notes" and "sponsoring bandwidth". I wonder if clients were demanding longer spots, or maybe Dan could charge more, I'm not sure. (This thread's title was eerily accurate!)
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May 12, 2013 06:13
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pokeyman posted:I've also noticed, on the Hypercritical re-listen, how much longer the ad segments get. Early episodes they're 30 seconds spots, but halfway through they're 60-120 seconds, plus spots for "sponsoring show notes" and "sponsoring bandwidth". I wonder if clients were demanding longer spots, or maybe Dan could charge more, I'm not sure. I think it's probably a bit of both, as the network's grown. Dan's stated outright what the sponsor slots are (nowadays), like, how much time they pay for, how frequently they're supposed to run, and what time in the shows they're supposed to happen, but I can't remember off the top of my head. I like his ad reads so I don't mind if they go a little long. The only time they get on my nerves is when they're longtime sponsors where there just isn't a lot more that can be said about them (Squarespace, Hover), and I already use their services anyway.
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May 12, 2013 15:42
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Not sure if anybody here would be interested in this, but it sorta counts as 5by5-related. I just posted an interview with Myke Hurley yesterday. Myke's the guy who was running 70Decibels before they got bought up by 5by5 earlier this year. Maybe check it out?
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Jul 23, 2013 17:19
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Back to Work drinking game! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oXT3xtEFXw2aruwUPy8N4eBsS-7fhnymHRM7ocHCKEc/edit?usp=sharing http://slabbulkhead.com/post/59778744262/the-unofficial-back-to-work-drinking-game quote:The Unofficial “Back to Work” Drinking Game
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Aug 31, 2013 16:25
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Man, this thread title is becoming more and more accurate: http://www.irltalk.com/
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Oct 25, 2013 22:54
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So either everyone's realizing how low the bar really is for making your own podcast. and/or Lots of people aren't satisfied. How many shows/people is that who left 5by5 in the last year and were on a nearly identical show within a couple months? The Talk Show (moved, largely unchanged, to Mule Radio) Build & Analyze (started an identical show within a couple months) Hypercritical (ditto) The Big Web Show (only listened to this once but I presume its Mule Radio version is identical) Geek Friday (there's something intensely awkward here) Also has The Incomparable done ads in the past? I'm an infrequent listener but the last couple episodes I caught had a jarring ad read. I can't decide whether it's cool that 5by5 seems to act as a farm team for podcasting talent or strange that it acquires other people/networks and spits them out. Though I dunno how to think about Mule Radio. It's not their main thing so they probably think of it as a hobby, hoping it breaks even. Whereas 5by5 doesn't have another business to sustain them, it's just podcasts. The weirdest part is the bifurcated archives of a show that continues unchanged.
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Oct 25, 2013 23:34
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I never watched/listened to The Cocktail Napkin, but the guy who made that has a show on Mule now too.
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Oct 25, 2013 23:37
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pokeyman posted:Build & Analyze (started an identical show within a couple months) These are both Accidental Tech, right? cause if not, I have some catching up to do. I guess Dan is just that much of an rear end in a top hat? How long till Merlin checks out?
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Oct 25, 2013 23:43
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While I agree with the general premise that there's got to be a reason for so many people to take their podcasts elsewhere, I really wouldn't lump Marco and Siracusa into that. They explained their reasons for ending their shows pretty well, and despite how Pokeyman characterized it, ATP really is a very different show from either Build and Analyze or Hypercritical. I'd also disagree that The Talk Show is largely unchanged. Gruber shifting to more of the "host" role profoundly changed the tone of that show, in my opinion for the better. And Malloreon, if you liked Hypercritical and/or Build and Analyze, you really ought to listen to ATP. My only complaint with it is that I can't stand the theme song.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:02
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Malloreon posted:These are both Accidental Tech, right? cause if not, I have some catching up to do. ATP is what I had in mind yeah. Though Marco often makes the rounds on other shows, John's on The Incomparable quite a bit, and Casey's starting to make the rounds too (Unprofessional, Cmd+Space), so there's lots of bonus content for you if you cast about. I can only assume, based on exactly no actual information, that Back to Work is a better than typical deal for Merlin. I bet he basically fills out the ad slots on his own and, to be honest, it's the only remaining flagship show I can think of that's left. So there may be some desire to keep him. (That's not to say it's the only flagship show on 5by5, I just don't know what else would be in that category.)
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Oct 26, 2013 00:02
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Diabolik900 posted:While I agree with the general premise that there's got to be a reason for so many people to take their podcasts elsewhere, I really wouldn't lump Marco and Siracusa into that. They explained their reasons for ending their shows pretty well, and despite how Pokeyman characterized it, ATP really is a very different show from either Build and Analyze or Hypercritical. ATP is very much B&A. With permanent special guest John Siracusa, and Casey is a much better Dan (if I may be so reductive), but that's the show. I'm with you on Hypercritical though, it's no replacement for that. The 90+ minute deep dive into a topic is just awesome. I love listening to those old Hypercritical episodes. I'ma go listen to one right now. The Talk Show is still Gruber sniffling and rambling (which I love!). The guests spice it up but the show feels the same to me. Dan's like Larry King. He makes you sound like a good guy but it's your show, not his.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:11
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I don't totally agree on ATP, but I'll admit I was much more confident in my assertion that it's a different show than Hypercritical than I was in saying it's different than B&A. Still disagree on The Talk Show. While it does still have a lot of Gruber sniffling and rambling (I don't think he could do a show without that), he seems much more engaged than he ever was on the 5by5 version. The old Talk Show was basically Dan doing a lot of poking and prodding to get Gruber to wake up and give his opinions. The new show is much more Gruber engaged in a conversation with a guest. I like both shows, but I do think they feel a lot different.
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Oct 26, 2013 00:34
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Diabolik900 posted:Still disagree on The Talk Show. While it does still have a lot of Gruber sniffling and rambling (I don't think he could do a show without that), he seems much more engaged than he ever was on the 5by5 version. The old Talk Show was basically Dan doing a lot of poking and prodding to get Gruber to wake up and give his opinions. The new show is much more Gruber engaged in a conversation with a guest. I like both shows, but I do think they feel a lot different. That's a good point. I wonder if part of the issue was the rigid schedule. On 5by5 the show was weekly right? Whereas now if there's a regularity I haven't picked up on it. Just seems to come out whenever. Gruber's a better host than guest on his own show.
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Oct 26, 2013 05:34
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It usually comes out on Fridays, but it definitely doesn't follow a strict schedule. When it was on 5by5 where it had a set schedule, it tended to follow that schedule much more loosely than other shows. Even when it recorded on the scheduled day, it often started late and I'm pretty sure that was literally because Gruber didn't wake up on time.
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Oct 26, 2013 05:46
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Just listen to episode 100 of back to work if you want to hear Dan at his worst. I'm sure that isn't how he usually is but he is super angry and aggressive on that one. It was right after Marco and John and John left.
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Oct 26, 2013 07:30
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So, let's run down this list.pokeyman posted:The Talk Show (moved, largely unchanged, to Mule Radio) quote:Build & Analyze (started an identical show within a couple months) quote:Hypercritical (ditto) quote:The Big Web Show (only listened to this once but I presume its Mule Radio version is identical) quote:Geek Friday (there's something intensely awkward here) quote:Also has The Incomparable done ads in the past? I'm an infrequent listener but the last couple episodes I caught had a jarring ad read. quote:I can't decide whether it's cool that 5by5 seems to act as a farm team for podcasting talent or strange that it acquires other people/networks and spits them out. Though I dunno how to think about Mule Radio. It's not their main thing so they probably think of it as a hobby, hoping it breaks even. Whereas 5by5 doesn't have another business to sustain them, it's just podcasts. The weirdest part is the bifurcated archives of a show that continues unchanged.
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Oct 26, 2013 16:25
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patricius posted:Maybe there is something about Dan that makes him difficult to work with. I can't really say, since I've never interacted with him, but I don't think it's that simple. The only one of these that had real drama surrounding it was the Talk Show move, and Gruber clearly came off as the rear end in a top hat in the way he handled it compared to how Dan came off. For any of the others here, I don't see any reason not to accept the explanations at face value. Marco is a self-professed control freak, Siracusa was tired and already super-busy, and Zeldman was pretty clear about why he moved and on what terms. I'm not sure there is either, and the "Dan is an rear end in a top hat" stuff is probably completely misguided. It's just interesting to see who stays and who goes. I mean, Merlin already produces his own podcast, so he must just enjoy hanging out with Dan every week on Back to Work? And I can only assume that whatever agreements or contracts (does anybody even sign anything?) are in place here have an out clause. What a weird little world.
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Oct 26, 2013 23:32
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pokeyman posted:Geek Friday (there's something intensely awkward here). The weirdest part is the bifurcated archives of a show that continues unchanged. What's so awkward about Geek Friday?
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Oct 31, 2013 05:24
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drjrock_obgyn posted:What's so awkward about Geek Friday? Faith joined 5by5 essentially as an intern, started popping in on a few shows (especially in the After Dark), Geek Friday started, then suddenly she no longer worked at 5by5 and nobody will talk about why. It gets awkward on e.g. the recent Unprofessional she was on where 5by5 came up. It's a shame because it was otherwise an awesome episode. There's every chance I got some or all of that wrong, and nobody owes me any backstory, but it's pretty loving awkward. And not in a funny alt comedy way either.
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Oct 31, 2013 06:03
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Two other details that I think also add to the awkwardness:
Again, every one of these things could have a simple explanation, but all of them together certainly paint an awkward picture. As someone said earlier, it's surprising Geek Friday lasted as long as it did.
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Oct 31, 2013 13:11
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In one of the After Dark Pamphlet episodes, someone asked Dan about Why he stopped appearing on Geek Friday, or why it became less prominent. He answered that he needed to spend time on shows that made money for the network. I have no idea how true or valid that might be, but it's another piece of the puzzle.
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Oct 31, 2013 13:17
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I remember him mentioning that, although it wasn't so much, "I can't wait to get rid of that show" as much as "there are some shows done for money, and some done for love". I'm pretty sure he said at that time he'd never not do Quit. Dumping Geek Friday was probably just a business decision. Possibly the same thing with increasing ads in the Incomparable (though it seems to me that Jason Snell is negotiating those). In case it was missed (mentioned in the ROTL thread and the original is archived now) but the YLNT finale (part 1) is up.
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Nov 2, 2013 20:49
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Kangra posted:I remember him mentioning that, although it wasn't so much, "I can't wait to get rid of that show" as much as "there are some shows done for money, and some done for love". I'm pretty sure he said at that time he'd never not do Quit. Dumping Geek Friday was probably just a business decision. Possibly the same thing with increasing ads in the Incomparable (though it seems to me that Jason Snell is negotiating those). Dan isn't selling the Incomparable ads - that's handled by Lex Friedman, occasional panelist and also the guy who does the ad sales for ATP, The Talk Show, and many others. http://podlexing.com Dan might be taking a cut to cover bandwidth costs, but I doubt he's forcing them to include ads. Stutes fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 21:01
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Stutes posted:Dan isn't selling the Incomparable ads - that's handled by Lex Friedman, occasional panelist and also the guy who does the ad sales for ATP, The Talk Show, and many others. I think it's becoming clear that the whole concept of a podcast network is flawed, at least for tech/geek subjects. The amount of effort to record, edit, get hosting etc. is not much, especially if you're already technically literate. There's also no benefit to having live broadcasts from my POV, as I'm in the UK and most of them record in the middle of the night for me. I suspect the number of live listeners is in the hundreds at most. As it stands, the incomparable is the only thing on 5by5 I regularly listen to now. Even then, other than the domain its hosted on, I don't really associate it with 5by5 at all.
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Nov 3, 2013 15:12
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wooger posted:I think it's becoming clear that the whole concept of a podcast network is flawed, at least for tech/geek subjects. That depends entirely on what the network's take is. In theory, there's still a lot of value in a centralized system and expertise for all the recording, editing, CDN stuff. I'm not on a podcast, nor am I likely to ever be, but if I were, I'd be keen to outsource all that crap, even though I could do it myself. Depending on what it costs, of course.
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Nov 3, 2013 15:27
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Lexicon posted:That depends entirely on what the network's take is. If there's something else tying things together (like a single host appearing on many shows, or the need to book guests) there's some argument, but really: Recording - trivial. Get a good microphone per person, pick an app. Editing - trivial & largely unnecessary unless you have OCD like Marco. I have no idea how some sites (the verge is the worst) take 2-3 days to release podcasts after recording, and they still come out identical to the live broadcast. CDN - Use libsyn.
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Nov 4, 2013 17:53
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There's at least one other major benefit to a network that I think is harder to replicate, and that's the promotion and visibility. I first found 5by5 by following a link on Daring Fireball to an episode of The Talk Show. From there I was able to easily find a bunch of other shows that also fit my interests. Maybe I would've found those shows eventually anyway, but it would've been less likely. Even now, I listen to far less 5by5 than I used to, but I'm more likely to at least check out to a new 5by5 show than some new show that just pops up on iTunes. And speaking of newer 5by5 shows, I'm enjoying The Prompt. It's not quite one of my overall favorite podcasts yet, but it is the first new 5by5 show to really hook me in quite some time.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:27
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wooger posted:If there's something else tying things together (like a single host appearing on many shows, or the need to book guests) there's some argument, but really: These things may seem trivial but there's definitely a cost overhead for quality that might not be immediately apparent. A good mic is about $350 plus an audio interface (~$150). Editing can be free but it's worth it to invest in good software for it like Adobe Audition ($50/month or $350/once). Hosting and CDN - Squarespace and Libsyn are a good $30/month altogether. Then there's marketing the thing and making the branding.
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Nov 5, 2013 18:13
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I run a small podcasting network, and there are definite costs/overhead, a lot of which are mentioned above. There's also that weird thing about the internet where if you get too popular too quick, you can bankrupt yourself. The thing about Libsyn is that they'll carry you a long way, but if you start going over what's "normal" you end up on their enterprise billing, which is crazy expensive. Also, you will want to have multiple accounts... one for each show. If you're running a weekly show, that's about $15 per month, $20 if you want an app that nobody will buy. If you try and go outside of Libsyn, you end up with things like Amazon S3, Rackspace, DreamObjects, or Cachefly, which add up quickly (especially Amazon). Shared hosting isn't a good solution because it doesn't scale if you get popular. Editing is non-trivial, even if you're not going for Radiolab-level production. If you get good at editing you don't have to edit in real time, but you're still going over it and making sure you are putting out a product you can be proud of. Being on a network/working cooperatively can really reduce the strain that edits place on your schedule. Since you're not making money off of your podcasts for the first long while, you're probably doing this during nights and weekends, which can be a drag if you have a family. Having a sales staff to get ad spots is a huge plus, since contacting each sponsor and managing those accounts takes up a lot of time as well. The alternate route is just going with affiliate links, but that's inconsistent revenue that you can't count on. The biggest benefit to having a network is time. The way I understand it, by and large, is that hosts on 5by5 show up with their show prep (or not) and record their bit, and dedicate very little time to the managerial overhead of actually getting the show out and paying for it. If you're doing everything yourself, it's a big commitment.
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Nov 5, 2013 19:29
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Song For The Deaf posted:I run a small podcasting network. Cool, which one? I've heard Marco discuss hosting costs before. Squarespace offer unlimited hosting (site + audio files) for pretty drat cheap, as long as you keep files below 120MB. Microphones can cost, but it's a one off, and again I'd argue you don't need $500 of kit to get started. Or even near that. Editing software can be gotten free, and certainly there's no need to buy Adobe software to do it. Plus for all the podcasts I've listened to live vs. recorded, the only difference editing makes to my ears is the removal of dead air, and insertion of sound effects.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:55
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