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Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan



When you get Caesar to narrate your Democratic campaign ad.

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MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO


https://twitter.com/NexusSites/stat...7952259073?s=20

e;
But also I've installed a new weapon mod and a fix for the Pipboy light!

VaultAggie
Nov 18, 2010

Best out of 71?

Not Vegas, but Iíve never helped the Hubologists. I mow through them every time.

Paul Revere 3000
Dec 8, 2007

So like a pimp I'm pimpin'
I got a boat to eat shrimp in
Nothing wrong with my leg
I'm just B-boy limpin'




I've been playing NV for almost a decade and I never sided with the Powder Gangers in Goodsprings until last year.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




Never once played with Wild Wasteland and have absolutely no intention to change.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Paul Revere 3000 posted:

I've been playing NV for almost a decade and I never sided with the Powder Gangers in Goodsprings until last year.

I still haven't even now!

Boogle
Sep 1, 2004



Nap Ghost

chitoryu12 posted:

I still haven't even now!

If you don't shoot the Powder Ganger gang leader for his Stealth Boy so you can beeline for Vegas you'll make Doc Mitchell cry. I suppose you can just grab the one in the schoolhouse if you're a pacifist?

Reality Protester
Aug 10, 2016


she tried to warn us



I finally killed the Boomers in my current playthrough and it felt really good.

If you go through Hidden Valley and Scorpion Gulch then you dont even need a stealth boy.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

By popular demand posted:

Never once played without Wild Wasteland and have absolutely no intention to change.

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.



I tried playing a route once where I sided with the Powder Gangers, but then you have to kill Doc Mitchell and he's the only person in 500 miles who can heal a broken leg. Whoops

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007




DeathChicken posted:

I tried playing a route once where I sided with the Powder Gangers, but then you have to kill Doc Mitchell and he's the only person in 500 miles who can heal a broken leg. Whoops

The Powder Gangers have a guy playing doctor at the prison. Can he not fix broken limbs? I've never checked since I'm shooting up the place in most playthroughs.

99 CENTS AMIGO
Jul 22, 2007



Yams Fan

Iíve never done a Mr House playthrough, so after I finish getting the Caravan achievements in this Independent run, I think Iím gonna run a Loganís Loophole character using the GRA Katana. I might just console in a poo poo-TON of drugs.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO


DeathChicken posted:

I tried playing a route once where I sided with the Powder Gangers, but then you have to kill Doc Mitchell and he's the only person in 500 miles who can heal a broken leg. Whoops

If being in league with the Powder Gangers has you kill the guy who could have easily not gone through the trouble of digging that bullet out of your skull and fixing up your looks as best they could then getting on their good side to gently caress them over at the first opportunity is valid. I'd just rather skip the "middle man" and start by nuking Joe Cobb and the squad he brings to Good Springs as they march down the road with a suitcase nuke you can get as a goodie from a mad bomber mod.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



I haven't finished all of the companion quests, because I always play on Hardcore and they have a bad habit of getting murdered when I wander into high-level areas like a dumbass. I'm planning to do a Let's Play where I try to get the best endings for everyone and everything, but without reloading saves if I screw up.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



Different game, but I have never tagged big guns in Fallout 1/2. There's like only 3 of them in 1 and 2 is only marginally better.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007




Chamale posted:

I haven't finished all of the companion quests, because I always play on Hardcore and they have a bad habit of getting murdered when I wander into high-level areas like a dumbass. I'm planning to do a Let's Play where I try to get the best endings for everyone and everything, but without reloading saves if I screw up.

When I play hardcore I always mod it so the companions can't die. They're too stupid to keep alive otherwise and I like doing their quests.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless


99 CENTS AMIGO posted:

I’ve never done a Mr House playthrough, so after I finish getting the Caravan achievements in this Independent run, I think I’m gonna run a Logan’s Loophole character using the GRA Katana. I might just console in a poo poo-TON of drugs.

I usually take Logan's Loophole but I've never done a serious drug-fueled run. It usually starts with that intention and then halfway through i realize I'm sitting on a huge pile of drugs I never use.

On an entirely unrelated note, I always wondered, does Psycho increase the damage you do with all weapons, including guns and explosives, or just melee?

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007




Wingnut Ninja posted:

I usually take Logan's Loophole but I've never done a serious drug-fueled run. It usually starts with that intention and then halfway through i realize I'm sitting on a huge pile of drugs I never use.

On an entirely unrelated note, I always wondered, does Psycho increase the damage you do with all weapons, including guns and explosives, or just melee?

All damage. You shoot better while high.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



It's always felt a bit silly that the Guns skill affects the actual power of your bullets. It would make more sense if it affected your aim, reload speed, and how often the gun jams. In fact, that's something a mod could probably change, although it's been a long time since I modded a Fallout game.

Simsmagic
Aug 3, 2011

Any tree can drop an apple. I'll drop the freaking moon!




I've only blown up the Hidden Valley bunker once for a House playthough. I don't like doing it, not because I care for the fuckers but because it would make Veronica upset

99 CENTS AMIGO
Jul 22, 2007



Yams Fan

Simsmagic posted:

I've only blown up the Hidden Valley bunker once for a House playthough. I don't like doing it, not because I care for the fuckers but because it would make Veronica upset

That's why ya leave her in there!!!

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



I'm currently doing a playthrough where I'm going for all challenges including the cannibal one to eat Crocker/Kimball/Caeser/House and I'm using the occasion to try and do as many legion/NCR quests as possible without becoming vilified with either. It's amusing doing NCR quests where there is a legion ambush and to avoid killing any and getting negative rep I just run them across the wasteland to the nearest cazador nest.

Also I've put off entering the Lucky 38 or talking to Benny so I can get the full pardon AFTER I nuke both the legion and NCR in Lonesome road.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO


Simsmagic posted:

I've only blown up the Hidden Valley bunker once for a House playthough. I don't like doing it, not because I care for the fuckers but because it would make Veronica upset

She won't like you but she will be better off. Not worth getting a bunch of Follower doctors and personnel killed to get her to abandon them on her own imo.

Namnesor
Jun 29, 2005

Dante's allowance - $100


Chamale posted:

It's always felt a bit silly that the Guns skill affects the actual power of your bullets. It would make more sense if it affected your aim, reload speed, and how often the gun jams. In fact, that's something a mod could probably change, although it's been a long time since I modded a Fallout game.

A lot of combat rebalancing mods do just that, and make damage either fixed by gun or by caliber.

WSAENOTSOCK
Apr 13, 2002


DeathChicken posted:

Fallout 2 did everything Fallout 1 did and made it much less archaic (except the tutorial area, who thought that was a good idea)
Did you all have a different Temple of Trials than I did? I've been hearing people say this for 22 years, but every time I re-play Fallout 2 I'm outta' there in like four minutes.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



WSAENOTSOCK posted:

Did you all have a different Temple of Trials than I did? I've been hearing people say this for 22 years, but every time I re-play Fallout 2 I'm outta' there in like four minutes.

If you're trying to kill everything, it's a total slog, even with unarmed or melee tagged. Personally, I also have an obsession with disarming every floor plate. Klamath can wait.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


Namnesor posted:

A lot of combat rebalancing mods do just that, and make damage either fixed by gun or by caliber.
*decides to make guns realistic*
*makes a .357 Magnum round fired out of a ~4.75" barrel do the same damage when it's fired out of a ~20" barrel*

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



Doing more damage with guns is a fun mechanic that makes leveling feel substantive. I'm all for the odd realism mod but that just sounds sorta unfun to be honest. I don't want to dump points into guns just to get slightly better handling

Though my favourite way the game makes levelling affect guns is hand loader. I really loving love pulling rounds apart and loading them with shitloads of powder or making jacketed hollowed points etc. The ammo types are probably my favourite guns add over FO3, way better than irons and mods

Namnesor
Jun 29, 2005

Dante's allowance - $100


rope kid posted:

*decides to make guns realistic*
*makes a .357 Magnum round fired out of a ~4.75" barrel do the same damage when it's fired out of a ~20" barrel*

I didn't say they were good mods

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



BurritoJustice posted:

Doing more damage with guns is a fun mechanic that makes leveling feel substantive. I'm all for the odd realism mod but that just sounds sorta unfun to be honest. I don't want to dump points into guns just to get slightly better handling

I'm not talking slightly better, I want a character with 10 Guns skill to be terrible. Slow to reload, jamming the gun, bad aim, all that. Would make it all the more satisfying to blow someone away at level 1.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless


BurritoJustice posted:

Doing more damage with guns is a fun mechanic that makes leveling feel substantive. I'm all for the odd realism mod but that just sounds sorta unfun to be honest. I don't want to dump points into guns just to get slightly better handling

Though my favourite way the game makes levelling affect guns is hand loader. I really loving love pulling rounds apart and loading them with shitloads of powder or making jacketed hollowed points etc. The ammo types are probably my favourite guns add over FO3, way better than irons and mods

Hell yeah, plus the fact that energy weapons get the same amount of love. It's one of the biggest things I miss from FO4.

"Higher skill equals more damage" is a necessary abstraction for RPGs, and I think that the janky-rear end Oblivion engine that underlies FONV still requires that to some degree. Having perks that change up the ammo you use or add various effects to your weapon type of choice (<3 shotgun surgeon) is a really good way to help bridge that gap. Again something I really wish FO4 did more with.

e:

Chamale posted:

I'm not talking slightly better, I want a character with 10 Guns skill to be terrible. Slow to reload, jamming the gun, bad aim, all that. Would make it all the more satisfying to blow someone away at level 1.

I can't say I really agree, but I love the idea of a 1 INT 10 Guns character forgetting to flip the safety off and impotently smacking the gun in frustration while they get eaten by a deathclaw.

Which, in case I haven't shat on FO4 enough yet, is similar to a wonderful bug in that game where sometimes your character just refuses to unholster their weapon for lengthy periods while you're trying to shoot something.

Wingnut Ninja fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Sep 17, 2020

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



Low guns characters doing dumb poo poo with guns complete with goofy animations is peak fallout, like the low int dialogue that fnv nails. I feel if NV had a few more years in the oven we'd get more like that, just like we'd surely see more low/high int/char dialogue

The jams are cool but I always play with repair tagged so I never see them

I mean we have jsawyer here in the flesh, do you think that'd be something you'd expand on with more time ropekid?

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008


99 CENTS AMIGO posted:

That's why ya leave her in there!!!

Which doesn't actually kill her.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


Chamale posted:

I'm not talking slightly better, I want a character with 10 Guns skill to be terrible. Slow to reload, jamming the gun, bad aim, all that. Would make it all the more satisfying to blow someone away at level 1.
The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games do this (not via character leveling, but via gun stats/condition) and IMO it doesn't really feel satisfying as much as like relief at the end of a frustrating sequence. After all, the game is effectively betraying your input. If you manage to hit someone, it's not that you did anything more correctly as much as a variety of RNG factors worked in your favor instead of against it. Some people like it. I'm not a fan, personally.

If S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games aren't great examples, there's also VtM: Bloodlines and Alpha Protocol. It felt bad in those games, too (IMO).

BurritoJustice posted:

Low guns characters doing dumb poo poo with guns complete with goofy animations is peak fallout, like the low int dialogue that fnv nails. I feel if NV had a few more years in the oven we'd get more like that, just like we'd surely see more low/high int/char dialogue

The jams are cool but I always play with repair tagged so I never see them

I mean we have jsawyer here in the flesh, do you think that'd be something you'd expand on with more time ropekid?
There are two different sets of questions, one of which is about shifting the aesthetic of the first person Fallouts' gun combat from baseline competence to baseline incompetence. Again, some people like that. I don't personally like it and I don't think most of the people who have played F3 through F76 would be very enthusiastic about it.

As for progression, that's a separate set of questions and issues. If you said, "Hey how would you do progression in a new first person Fallout game?" I probably wouldn't try to do a 100 point skill progression. I don't know what I'd do because I haven't really thought about it, but I wouldn't feel beholden to the F3/F:NV 100 point progression and what it adjusts. If the question is, "If you had an extra 12 months on F:NV, what would you do differently for guns?" I would rather get more programming time to make gun handling feel better than overhaul progression. F4's gunplay feels better than F:NV's gunplay largely because their gun handling had much more programming time put into it, period. We had very few programming resources and we couldn't do things like progressive spread or individually mapped per-weapon recoil curves. If we had more code time, that's what I would do. I wouldn't have overhauled progression. Better gun handling features would have gone much further for the majority of players, IMO.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




FWIW I was always impressed with what you guys made in the limited time you got.

Now if I could only blackmail Bethesda somehow to stop loving about with that awful MMO and allow professionally remastered edition of FNV.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO


I appreciate STALKER's gunplay but moreso modded gunplay that won't have rounds fly off at a tangent to the barrel. lol

NV is great cause it's more about feeling like the player character is improving with the roleplaying and all.

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012



MariusLecter posted:


NV is great cause it's more about feeling like the player character is improving with the roleplaying and all.

*note: I play the GOTY version on Xbox. I might feel differently about this on PC with Sawyer's mod.

I agree. For me it's more about the gun-type specific perks than the skill number going up (but it must go up to pick the perks) in that regard.

Cowboy is a good example. By the time you can choose it you have probably picked which type of weapon and character you prefer. Texas Ranger with a Big Iron? Annie Oakley with her trusty Winchester? Jim Bowie on Jet? Reformed Powder Ganger? Jack of all trades frontiersman? All possible with just that perk or with complimentary weapon perks. I've also taken it as soon as possible for non-combat builds to free up some skill points but still be able to defend myself with whatever is laying around. Even high-level assassins carry applicable weapons and the ammo for them.

Some builds require multiple "paths" through the perk list that, while taking half the game to get there, can good make sense from role-playing perspective. A solid shotgun build can be very powerful, especially against melee enemies (gently caress cazadors). It gets you out of VATS and makes you really think about the battlespace. Everything is touch-and-go, always moving, much more like FO4's combat than using any other NV gun. By the time you can stand up against cazadors and deathclaws with the hunting shotgun it feels like you are ready to do so. You are the 2281 Novac Pro-am Skeet Champion, hat full of holes, just swinging that scattergun around like no one's business, knowing the correct load for any situation, busting kneecaps like clay pigeons.

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



unintuitively I think if you want to explore the spectrum between gun-fumbling incompetence and revolver-spinning ricochet genius then a First Person Shooter is not the way to do it

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


The gun skill making gun damage go up as it does is also really easy to abstract: sure some of your "aiming" is you, but some of it is your character. Instead of getting a headshot because the player can put crosshairs over a head well, the character converts it into a shot in the eye, or aims between some armored plates for a slightly more damaging shot. IDK, but its not totally insane.


rope kid posted:

The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games do this (not via character leveling, but via gun stats/condition) and IMO it doesn't really feel satisfying as much as like relief at the end of a frustrating sequence. After all, the game is effectively betraying your input. If you manage to hit someone, it's not that you did anything more correctly as much as a variety of RNG factors worked in your favor instead of against it. Some people like it. I'm not a fan, personally.
Yeah, early STALKER forcing you to either just bumrush people with a knife or shotgun because you can't hit loving poo poo with your Makarov from two feet away was more frustrating than fun. It worked a little better after the first few bandit encounters in Cordon.

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MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO


Pretty sure they wanted the player to have a tough choice of giving that custom Fort-12 to Sidrovich or keep it for it's stats compared to the Makarovs littering the Zone.

There isn't much good to say about that whole situation other than it was interesting at the time.

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