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BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



Basic Chunnel posted:

I think Fallout 4 is mostly fine, narratively. SEAN!!! and the Institute don’t even really need valid reasons, scientists doing horrible genocidal things because they can is hardly an unworn trope, nor is it one particularly out of step with actual history. Rolling up on a dude in a standoff with his synth replacement was a really effective and memorable random encounter, too. That in itself more or less justified the vague reasons for the project. It’s just creepy.

They at least did a lot better job with giving all the factions pretty significant flaws. Something they had to learn after NV knocked it out of the park.

I do agree, the replacement plot was a good idea because it creates some of the best storytelling in the game. The issue is that it is totally dissonant from the story with the institute that it just feels weird and out of place. All the game needed was a single speech from father with some solid writing outlining why/how. Shady loving scientists are gonna do poo poo like that, sure, but it is a bad case of narrative dissonance overall.

Playing through FO4 I never really liked any of the factions, they're all so flawed in a way that doesn't feel real. It definitely feels like they shortcut the complexity by giving every faction a grossly obvious, 2D flaw. Their flaws are always what you see first and then it doesn't elaborate on that.

I love in NV how the actual rot in every faction isn't on the surface. You have to do a lot of questing to learn of the NCR's beurocratic failures and overextension, the legions pseudo-intellectual eco-fascist bearing that is failed by a total lack of idealist communication to their actual followers and soldiers, house's misplaced intentions and megalomania, and learning that a truly "free" Vegas will lead to both good and terrible conditions.

When I played F4 (on release, with my silly pipboy and all), it just felt like I knew every faction by just looking at the surface.


Vichan posted:

Don't you reveal his motivations after you kill him?

You probably do, I haven't played much since launch due to disappointment (though still a solid 70 hours I believe). I just recall that the game didn't instill near the same anger in me as a player as it did in the player character, so the lack of nuance and agency when talking to Kellogg is frustrating.

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Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

Nothing scarier than an artillery barrage -- Am I right?


F4 suffers massively from a ton of writing and planning issues (my first attempt at this post derailed into a litany of the bad moves and conflicting, undeveloped themes) but even for players who are okay with most of the defects of the setting, they built it around having an (almost) all-against-all war where most of the factions have no clear motives for their actions or decisions to exterminate each other. The work that goes into having the BoS ingame and also simultaneously having them kill everyone else...same with the railroad, same with the institute. It's absolute nonsense.

Woebin
Feb 6, 2006



Honestly F4 feels a lot like they tried to learn from FNV but just didn't have the chops and/or workflow needed to really pull it off. From the way people talk about Bethesda divvying up the work in isolated chunks I imagine that was a big part of it, with a lack of communication and collaboration between the separate teams.

That's all just speculation, obviously, but it makes sense to me. Every Bethesda game from Oblivion and on has had a few bits of really good writing, but it's never the main path stuff and it's never consistent. They make theme parks, not cohesive worlds, and even the best writers and designers (and I'm sure there are some great writers and designers there) can only do so much when they need to fit their work into a bigger picture that just isn't very malleable and that they don't seem to have a clear view of. It's almost like a game of Exquisite Corpse.

F4 really does have excellent companions, though! Except Strong, but that's because Bethesda has never known what to do with mutants beyond "post-apoc orcs".

Gyshall
Feb 24, 2009

Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.


Fallout 4 sucks.

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