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Sheen Sheen
Nov 18, 2002


Byzantine posted:

I slightly disagree, though I freely admit I'm biased towards House. The Kings are an unfriendly gang living literally on House's doorstep. That's a bit different from the NCR attacking a bunch of unarmed doctors.

The NCR doesn't "attack" the doctors. Kicking them out of the Fort is a dick move, but it's hardly a war crime.
And even then, getting them to work with the NCR ends up being the best possible ending for the only true morally good faction in the game--House just ignores them and basically lets Freeside continue to decay.


And it's already been said, but I don't have any sympathy for the Khans. They're raiders, and they have been since the first game. Furthermore, they're raiders who helped Benny shoot the Courier in the head.

Sheen Sheen fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jan 22, 2013

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Rex Deckard
Jul 15, 2004



So this thread goes down the better faction discussion path about every few months. It would be an interesting experiment to get the faction preference, age of the poster, and life situation (married, has kids, etc.) To go with that. The one thing I find so impressive about Fallout New Vegas is how the writing has made me sympathetic without fail to certain folks in the wasteland regardless of the playthrough.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


Speedball posted:

A game where you are a ghoul by default might swing it, then. Everyone would hate you and you'd have to work hard to earn anyone's trust. The only problem there would be radiation turning from a hazard into a benefit, but I can imagine there being some other way of keeping environmental hazards around. Sierra Madre poison clouds, for example. Maybe you sunburn easily and can't soak up too much bright light at once, or your crusty skin dehydrates easily and you need to alway have some form of water to drink (so just one aspect of Hardcore Mode would always be on, effectively).

Alternatively, you need radiation to live. Regular healing chems are mostly ineffective on you, so you need a mixture of doctoring to stitch yourself back up and radiation to heal yourself as well. Instead of munching stimpacks, you need to slobber down some irradiated water or something to help yourself heal.


Upmarket Mango posted:

I didn't consider all the extra dialogue Ghouls would require but it makes sense now that they aren't in the game considering. I just think Ghouls are just the bee's knees. I would love a pulpy crime noir detective story with a Ghoul PI in a super detailed New Reno. Fallouts are always about wide reaching events and issues but I think it'd be cool to have something super small-scale and personal, that in the grand scheme of things may or may not actually matter. I think that'd be cool. Then again, I also enjoyed the metro tunnels in Fallout 3.

Fallout does some fairly personal stuff. The whole beginning part of NV is pretty personal depending on how sidetracked you get. It's not until you kill Benny that poo poo gets less personal and bigger. But I know what you mean. I've had a lot of fun in one of my first FO1 playthroughs where I spent a few months as a caravan guard to get some money.

I think the metro tunnels of the dead city could actually be interesting if they were actually like the Metro tunnels of the actual Dead City. If someone put some serious effort into making the stations and tunnels way less loving boring, you could make things interesting and actually warrant travelling through the various tunnels and metros and not have the whole thing be a tedious, boring, loving ordeal. Of course that would also warrant some serious overhaul to the whole game.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?


Rex Deckard posted:

So this thread goes down the better faction discussion path about every few months. It would be an interesting experiment to get the faction preference, age of the poster, and life situation (married, has kids, etc.) To go with that. The one thing I find so impressive about Fallout New Vegas is how the writing has made me sympathetic without fail to certain folks in the wasteland regardless of the playthrough.
Didn't someone make a flow chart with all the discussions that inevitably get discussed on this thread?


OldMemes posted:

Have you talked to Bitter-Root about the Khans. He's got some...interesting insider views on then and how messed up they are. Not to mention that they're propping up the Fiends, who are by far the most evil gang in the game.

Oh, and of we're talking about the evil/good characters in the game, Mitchell is the least selfish character in the Mojave.
Aren't they propping the Fiends because of Papa Khan thinks its one of the few things he can do to gently caress the NCR, along with allying with The Legion?

I always let them go to Wyoming and Montana to make a new empire because it allows future content and plus I kind of want them to find signs about Sturgis and make it like some religious pilgrimage where they travel to South Dakota and find some workable motorcycles.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008



There's one vehicle I would like to see in this game, assuming Highwaymen are out. Motorcycles would be rad, but if we want to be slightly more practical (if goofy-looking)...

Bicycles! They're a relatively low-tech conveyance you could justify the scavengers hobbling together.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


achillesforever6 posted:

Didn't someone make a flow chart with all the discussions that inevitably get discussed on this thread?

Aren't they propping the Fiends because of Papa Khan thinks its one of the few things he can do to gently caress the NCR, along with allying with The Legion?

I always let them go to Wyoming and Montana to make a new empire because it allows future content and plus I kind of want them to find signs about Sturgis and make it like some religious pilgrimage where they travel to South Dakota and find some workable motorcycles.

Have you done the quest The Coyotes? If the Khans are propping up the Fiends and therefore helping do things like that, then they deserve a little wasteland justice. The Khans are thieves and murderers, and all that "noble culture" stuff is a smokescreen - the Boomers have more of a culture than they do, and the Boomers have been around for what, 50 years, compared to the Khan's hundred odd years? Let's not forget that one was gunning down innocent refugees at Bitter Springs - Regis is the best Khan, because he's fed up of their destructive culture. The Khans are basically the Legion without the philosophy and competence, they're pretty bad. Oh, and they kidnapped Tandi in Fallout 1, so there's that too.

Bitter Springs sucked, but there's a whole US out there to explore, so they could just leave, find a new home and never see the NCR again.

OldMemes fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jan 22, 2013

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

Dreams, Amelia - dreams and false alarms

Megamarm

That reminds me- I don't think I've ever found a good timeline for how long the Boomers have been around in their "current" form when I've played. Pearl implies a pretty long tradition, lasting the duration of her life or longer, while Chris Haversam from Repconn HQ seems to have worked in Vault 34 before it completely fell apart, while a log in Vault 34 suggests that they left while things were getting bad but before the vault's near-complete ghoulification. While Pete's speech suggests there was still radiation at Nellis when the first Boomers settled it. I figure the Boomers left at least a generation or two before the Courier meets them, while their vault persisted some time longer, but I might be missing some important bit of dialog.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Speedball posted:

Let's face it: everyone's an rear end in a top hat some of the time in this game.
Not the Followers! They're pretty chill.

Plump and Ready
Jan 28, 2009


So I'm thinking about playing this for the first time and I want to know if there are any mods worth having? I read the OP but I did not see a mod section, there was just a link to the NV nexus and I really don't want to scour through a bunch of nudity and fetish mods to find a good graphics mod or something.

TexMexFoodbaby
Sep 6, 2011

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


MrMo posted:

So I'm thinking about playing this for the first time and I want to know if there are any mods worth having? I read the OP but I did not see a mod section, there was just a link to the NV nexus and I really don't want to scour through a bunch of nudity and fetish mods to find a good graphics mod or something.

There's a mod thread here. Go hog wild.

Edit: It's cool.

TexMexFoodbaby fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 22, 2013

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


StandardVC10 posted:

That reminds me- I don't think I've ever found a good timeline for how long the Boomers have been around in their "current" form when I've played. Pearl implies a pretty long tradition, lasting the duration of her life or longer, while Chris Haversam from Repconn HQ seems to have worked in Vault 34 before it completely fell apart, while a log in Vault 34 suggests that they left while things were getting bad but before the vault's near-complete ghoulification. While Pete's speech suggests there was still radiation at Nellis when the first Boomers settled it. I figure the Boomers left at least a generation or two before the Courier meets them, while their vault persisted some time longer, but I might be missing some important bit of dialog.
There are unintentional timeline errors between Chris' dialogue and the Boomers. Chris was written very early in development (Novac was the first town we built and REPCONN Test Site the first "dungeon") and the Boomers were written near the middle/end.

ClearAirTurbulence
Apr 20, 2010
The earth has music for those who listen.

Eiba posted:

The thing about that bit is, unless I'm misremembering, you have absolutely no reason to believe that that button will launch a nuke.

It's a button in front of a door, and you want to get into that door... so you press the button. But surprise! You've also launched a nuke!

For better or worse, it's illustrating the whole moral argument Ulysses is making about culpability and responsibility.

It's been a while since I played Lonesome Road, but I remember when I came across the button I knew (or at least suspected) it was a missile launch button and spent time trying to find an alternative to pushing it. Isn't it a panel just like the launch button at REPCONN, overlooking a missile silo? I think it might even say "LAUNCH" on it.

Plump and Ready
Jan 28, 2009


FauxGateau posted:

There's a mod thread here. Go hog wild.

Whoops totally missed that, thanks.

HitTheTargets
Mar 3, 2006

I came here to laugh at you.


Speedball posted:

There's one vehicle I would like to see in this game, assuming Highwaymen are out. Motorcycles would be rad, but if we want to be slightly more practical (if goofy-looking)...

Bicycles! They're a relatively low-tech conveyance you could justify the scavengers hobbling together.

I know at least once I've said Fallout 4 should be set in Portland.

Less jokingly, I would like to see rideable horses & Brahmins. It would be a great fit for any Fallut set in the Mojave, Texas, or the Plains states.

Democrazy
Oct 16, 2008

If you're not willing to lick the boot, then really why are you in politics lol? Everything is a cycle of just getting stomped on so why do you want to lose to it over and over, just submit like me, I'm very intelligent.


I'm going to go a little controversial route and defend Caesar's Legion. The Caesar's Legion is the Taliban of the Mojave, and that actually might be a good thing for the region in the long run. While we in our 21st century world are not used to thinking of constant danger as a real disruption in our lives, in the world of the Mojave, life threatening danger is ever-present. The NCR cannot bring law and order to the Mojave, and is it debateable whether House would want to. Only Caesar's Legion has the discipline and the desire to force some sort of order on the Mojave, and while its methods might be cruel, its effects in the end may be better than any of the other factions. The territory of the Legion is safe for trade, suggesting the Legion has the resources to be able to control what it conquers. Where is House's "free market" in the anarchy of the wastes? What does the NCR's "democracy" mean to a wastelander staring down the barrel of a gun? Without security, none of the values that we espouse can be implemented. By enforcing an iron will, even without Caesar's philosophical underpinnings, the Legion will do more to create an area in which life can be protected, and therefore can begin to protect its property and create a true market, and can begin to find its own value and begin to gain political consciousness. Without that very first step, all others are meaningless.

I don't necessarily buy into this entirely myself, but I think it's a fair argument.

Sheen Sheen
Nov 18, 2002


Democrazy posted:

Pro-Legion

I don't necessarily buy into this entirely myself, but I think it's a fair argument.

I think the best defense of the Legion would involve pointing out that, while a slaveholding-rapist-fascist army is a definitively Bad Thing to us, whom are by and large liberal people with humanitarian sensibilities, it might make alot more sense if you grew up in a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland. In a world where the majority of deaths are caused by monsters, wild animals, and raiders, having a society that first and foremost protects you from these things doesn't seem so bad.


\/\/\/\/ I agree wholeheartedly. It's still fun to think about and discuss, though--is there anywhere I can read a synopsis of Caesar's plans for governing after winning the war? It's been a while since I did a Legion run and I don't remember.

Sheen Sheen fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 22, 2013

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




I like coming up for defenses for the Legion myself, as a way of understanding them at least... but to be perfectly clear, if the Legion is really the best bet for the future of civilization in the post apocalypse, Ulysses was right and it should all be nuked back to nothing again.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008



Haha. I never crafted coffee before. I made several units of it, but when I drank the last part, I got a message that I had just smashed my coffee cup.

edit: On the flipside, it is a little weird how "empty soda bottle" is used to craft Nuka-Cola but "Empty Nuka-Cola Bottle" can't be used that way. In fact, it's useless. Development oversight?

Tupperwarez
Apr 4, 2004

"phphphphphphpht"? this is what you're going with?

you sure?


Speedball posted:

Haha. I never crafted coffee before. I made several units of it, but when I drank the last part, I got a message that I had just smashed my coffee cup.

edit: On the flipside, it is a little weird how "empty soda bottle" is used to craft Nuka-Cola but "Empty Nuka-Cola Bottle" can't be used that way. In fact, it's useless. Development oversight?
If one attempts to fill and re-seal a Nuka-Cola bottle with a liquid other than the authentic Nuka-Cola formula, it will explode into a cloud of glittering shrapnel. Taste the sting of the invisible hand, you recycling pinko hippie!

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011


Sheen Sheen posted:

The NCR doesn't "attack" the doctors. Kicking them out of the Fort is a dick move, but it's hardly a war crime.
And even then, getting them to work with the NCR ends up being the best possible ending for the only true morally good faction in the game--House just ignores them and basically lets Freeside continue to decay.


And it's already been said, but I don't have any sympathy for the Khans. They're raiders, and they have been since the first game. Furthermore, they're raiders who helped Benny shoot the Courier in the head.

I am amazed House didn't send them to wipe Freeside completely clean of life.

graynull
Dec 2, 2005

Did I misread all the signs?

gyrobot posted:

I am amazed House didn't send them to wipe Freeside completely clean of life.

I'd guess he uses Freeside to keep the 'middle class' on the strip scared so they continue to poor caps into the safety of the securitron green zone.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011


graynull posted:

I'd guess he uses Freeside to keep the 'middle class' on the strip scared so they continue to poor caps into the safety of the securitron green zone.

I mean purge the Followers along with the Kings.

But you know, there should have been a Legion companion or at least an evil one. Dean was close enough on the evil part though.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 22, 2013

graynull
Dec 2, 2005

Did I misread all the signs?

gyrobot posted:

I mean purge the Followers along with the Kings.

But you know, there should have been a Legion companion or at least an evil one. Dean was close enough on the evil part though.

At the very least Raul says he doesn't mind the legion, and that their territory in Arizona is pretty safe. I'm not entirely sure on the legion attitude toward ghouls or super mutants, but I'm guessing it isn't very good.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011


graynull posted:

At the very least Raul says he doesn't mind the legion, and that their territory in Arizona is pretty safe. I'm not entirely sure on the legion attitude toward ghouls or super mutants, but I'm guessing it isn't very good.

Don't like them, won't deal with them is the Legion motto.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

OldMemes posted:

Bitter Springs sucked, but there's a whole US out there to explore, so they could just leave, find a new home and never see the NCR again.

They did. They left NCR territory and headed east, to the Mojave. They were there several years before the NCR. Assuming they moved out there shortly after Fallout 2 there may even be many Khans who were born there.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


StandardVC10 posted:

That reminds me- I don't think I've ever found a good timeline for how long the Boomers have been around in their "current" form when I've played. Pearl implies a pretty long tradition, lasting the duration of her life or longer, while Chris Haversam from Repconn HQ seems to have worked in Vault 34 before it completely fell apart, while a log in Vault 34 suggests that they left while things were getting bad but before the vault's near-complete ghoulification. While Pete's speech suggests there was still radiation at Nellis when the first Boomers settled it. I figure the Boomers left at least a generation or two before the Courier meets them, while their vault persisted some time longer, but I might be missing some important bit of dialog.

Maybe Chris really was the only good-looking ghoul, and Jason Bright was just jealous of Chris's nose and hair and didn't want him to come along to the moon.

graynull
Dec 2, 2005

Did I misread all the signs?

Is there a base chance for enemies to crit you? I picked up the Expanded Traits 'Strange Luck' trait that gives +2 luck and 10% greater chance to be critically hit, and I'm trying to quantify how damaging that is.

DogsInSpace!
Sep 11, 2001

Mind Explode!
Out Come Dogs!




Fun Shoe

SpookyLizard posted:

I think the metro tunnels of the dead city could actually be interesting if they were actually like the Metro tunnels of the actual Dead City. If someone put some serious effort into making the stations and tunnels way less loving boring, you could make things interesting and actually warrant travelling through the various tunnels and metros and not have the whole thing be a tedious, boring, loving ordeal. Of course that would also warrant some serious overhaul to the whole game.

When a metro is done well it can be a blast. I always bring up Metro 2033 as a great example of how to do a massive underground that is endlessly entertaining. Someone mentioned New York many pages ago and it might be fun to take NYC or Chicago and scale derelict towers or scour their under-city. LR made me think of that a few times really. I really want tunnelers to keep reappearing in the Fallout universe.

The Legion is fascinating to me and I truly wish there was more quests for them. Hell I would have loved if I could have had a frumentarii origin and been able to bring true horror to the Mojave for my villain run. They seem to break the very imperfect nature of man and turn him into a well honed instrument of order... but only if you don't look too close. The occasional bits of drug and drink I would be willing to bet aren't accidental. Marcus is right: They don't follow the ideal but merely the man. Once Sallow dies the Legion will fragment and consume itself as human nature prevails. Vulpes Inculta would make a great successor but I don't think Lanius will let him survive long enough to matter.

Still love House and NCR endings the best. NCR, flaws and all, really does feel like family. I kinda like seeing them grow from the older games to what they are now. If you report Crimson Caravan and the Van Graffs in New Vegas it hits them all the way back in Cali and seems to straighten things out. I like to imagine that Senator Hanlon is an eventuality no matter the end.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011


Von_Doom posted:

When a metro is done well it can be a blast. I always bring up Metro 2033 as a great example of how to do a massive underground that is endlessly entertaining. Someone mentioned New York many pages ago and it might be fun to take NYC or Chicago and scale derelict towers or scour their under-city. LR made me think of that a few times really. I really want tunnelers to keep reappearing in the Fallout universe.

The Legion is fascinating to me and I truly wish there was more quests for them. Hell I would have loved if I could have had a frumentarii origin and been able to bring true horror to the Mojave for my villain run. They seem to break the very imperfect nature of man and turn him into a well honed instrument of order... but only if you don't look too close. The occasional bits of drug and drink I would be willing to bet aren't accidental. Marcus is right: They don't follow the ideal but merely the man. Once Sallow dies the Legion will fragment and consume itself as human nature prevails. Vulpes Inculta would make a great successor but I don't think Lanius will let him survive long enough to matter.

Still love House and NCR endings the best. NCR, flaws and all, really does feel like family. I kinda like seeing them grow from the older games to what they are now. If you report Crimson Caravan and the Van Graffs in New Vegas it hits them all the way back in Cali and seems to straighten things out. I like to imagine that Senator Hanlon is an eventuality no matter the end.

Not in a NCR victory, he decides to retire in Redding if the NCR wins, only if the Mojave assumes independence under House or you does he actually go on to become Senator, otherwise the hawks in NCR take control inevitability. If they had kept House alive ala the resignation route, you can bet House becomes the Senator of New Vegas, eventually becoming the new president if Kimball dies, or as the minister of the economy if he had lived.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008



Wow, haha, I just started up Honest Hearts. I don't even remember Ricky. He's Mr. Fantastic's twin brother or something, isn't he?

Trustworthy
Dec 28, 2004

with catte-like thread
upon our prey we steal


Ravenfood posted:

Not the Followers! They're pretty chill.

I'll take that challenge!

They Followers are parasites, who rely on other factions to do the critical, unavoidable dirty work of protection, acquiring supplies, etc., just so the they can stay one step removed from the violence and pretend they're not morally complicit in any of the ugly, everyday actions it takes to survive in the wasteland.

Also their extreme passive philosophy set the stage for the disallusionment Edward Sallow, so

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

A good quest to get a look at the dark side of the Followers is The White Wash.

Saint Sputnik
Mar 31, 2007

Tyrannosaurs in P-51 Volkswagens!


Trustworthy posted:

I'll take that challenge!

They Followers are parasites, who rely on other factions to do the critical, unavoidable dirty work of protection, acquiring supplies, etc., just so the they can stay one step removed from the violence and pretend they're not morally complicit in any of the ugly, everyday actions it takes to survive in the wasteland.

Also their extreme passive philosophy set the stage for the disallusionment Edward Sallow, so

In my last finished game I tried to get them to help with the battle after I did some of their chores and they still said no. I couldn't be arsed to look up the trigger for it because I was itching to get into the final fight so I said gently caress 'em.

DogsInSpace!
Sep 11, 2001

Mind Explode!
Out Come Dogs!




Fun Shoe

Trustworthy posted:

I'll take that challenge!

They Followers are parasites, who rely on other factions to do the critical, unavoidable dirty work of protection, acquiring supplies, etc., just so the they can stay one step removed from the violence and pretend they're not morally complicit in any of the ugly, everyday actions it takes to survive in the wasteland.

Also their extreme passive philosophy set the stage for the disallusionment Edward Sallow, so

Jesus. Nice. I dig them but you are absolutely correct. Bloody hippies.

Curious. I'm doing two House runs (I blame the debate 10 pages ago) with a Django cowboy and a Int 1 guy who thinks he's a super mutant and likes to barsch things over their noggings with very large objects. The low int speech can be a little sparse (bunny hunter - teehee) but I want to imagine all will be worth it once I reach House. Please tell me House has a ton of low int dialogue. I want to imagine him speaking very slowly and sighing after every conversation. I want to meet the greatest minds of the wasteland and annoy them terribly. Tabitha for control of New Vegas! She would probably love the King.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Von_Doom posted:

Jesus. Nice. I dig them but you are absolutely correct. Bloody hippies.

Curious. I'm doing two House runs (I blame the debate 10 pages ago) with a Django cowboy and a Int 1 guy who thinks he's a super mutant and likes to barsch things over their noggings with very large objects. The low int speech can be a little sparse (bunny hunter - teehee) but I want to imagine all will be worth it once I reach House. Please tell me House has a ton of low int dialogue. I want to imagine him speaking very slowly and sighing after every conversation. I want to meet the greatest minds of the wasteland and annoy them terribly. Tabitha for control of New Vegas! She would probably love the King.

Unfortunately no, The only other specific low int dialogue is with a few followers of the apocalypse. Still, I did an amusing run with a guy who would fail every speech check possible, and just generally mess up quests given to him, G.I. blues is particularly flexible to this way of playing.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008



Failed speech checks are some of the greatest sources of comedy in this game.

"But where do you get all the protein? Oh my god, you're CANNIBALS!"

Sheen Sheen
Nov 18, 2002


My favorite speech check in any game is the REPCONN HQ password guess (Luck at 7 or higher, Intelligence at 2 or lower).

"Uhhh...ice cream?"

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009



Ravenfood posted:

Not the Followers! They're pretty chill.

I keep hearing good things about this Edward Sallow guy...

sector_corrector
Jan 18, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


I'm only about 30 minutes in to Lonesome road, but outside of Ed-E I'm not a big fan so far.

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Utgardaloki
Mar 2, 2009


Trustworthy posted:

I'll take that challenge!

They Followers are parasites, who rely on other factions to do the critical, unavoidable dirty work of protection, acquiring supplies, etc., just so the they can stay one step removed from the violence and pretend they're not morally complicit in any of the ugly, everyday actions it takes to survive in the wasteland.

Also their extreme passive philosophy set the stage for the disallusionment Edward Sallow, so

Most of the Followers are armed, I assume they don't shoot medicine and knowledge at people.

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