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StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007



Megamarm

Mortimer posted:

Has anyone said they didn't like OWB though? Pretty sure that one is universally loved.

The combat is utter balls. Everything takes too many shots to kill and too little time to respawn. If they were trying to punish snipers, they shouldn't have made their main area a literal open circle with a clear line of sight from one end to the other. Dead Money made sniping less viable with its arena design - short draw distances, few precise weapons, and lots of kinks in the path that keep you from ever having a long line of sight. That feels a lot less arbitrarily punishing (why do they want to do that anyway? Most players aren't going to spec their character from the outset with a specific DLC in mind.)

Honest Hearts can be even more frustrating with the way it creates tough monsters out of thin air in front of you, but that doesn't really feel like intended behavior.

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Farrier Theaks
Mar 23, 2007

Whatever fucking exists, he said. Whatever in creation exists without my fucking knowledge exists without my fucking consent.

Hair Elf

My only guff with OWB is the half-hour info dump at the start. I usually exhaust dialogue trees and listen to the entire conversation, but I had to skip through a lot of the Think Tank.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

StandardVC10 posted:

The combat is utter balls. Everything takes too many shots to kill and too little time to respawn. If they were trying to punish snipers, they shouldn't have made their main area a literal open circle with a clear line of sight from one end to the other. Dead Money made sniping less viable with its arena design - short draw distances, few precise weapons, and lots of kinks in the path that keep you from ever having a long line of sight. That feels a lot less arbitrarily punishing (why do they want to do that anyway? Most players aren't going to spec their character from the outset with a specific DLC in mind.)

To keep players on their toes, offer a new challenge, prevent the whole game and DLCs from feeling samey, encourage experimenting with different playstyles. I assume anyway.

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

I really thought Lonesome Road was the weakest of the three. If Joshua Graham was an awe inspiring badass of a character, Ulysses came across like he was trying to cosplay an awe inspiring badass of a character. Which may have been the point, but it was still a letdown. Plus the location itself reminded me of the worst aspects of Fallout 3, trying to wade through a big ugly setpiece that somehow limits your navigation to a crawl when it very well should be a straight shot.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007



Megamarm

2house2fly posted:

To keep players on their toes, offer a new challenge, prevent the whole game and DLCs from feeling samey, encourage experimenting with different playstyles. I assume anyway.

I'd give Dead Money a 2/3 on this and Old World Blues a 1/3. The proton axes really help out. But the combat isn't really a new challenge or anything you've never seen, it's just a slog. Granted, I could skip it more if I used fast travel in the crater, which I don't like doing because it tends to crash the game.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003


I didn't mind the OWB combat, because everything indoors was easily dispatched at close range with the proton axe, and outside I tended to run away a lot and snipe from the pipes that run everywhere. It wasn't even worth the hassle of fighting things like nightstalkers and roboscorpions outside, and the trauma harnesses and lobotomies go down easy enough

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

I really want to play DM but those stupid radios annoy the piss out of me*, and I wind up reloading a previous save in the Mohave. There's a handful of mods that just remove the mechanic, but some of the comments on them imply some glitching and I'm hesitant to use them.

* I'd be way more tolerant if there was some visual effect on the radios, because most of my annoyance comes from dying and having no more idea where the radio was after I died than I did before.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005


MisterBibs posted:

I really want to play DM but those stupid radios annoy the piss out of me*, and I wind up reloading a previous save in the Mohave. There's a handful of mods that just remove the mechanic, but some of the comments on them imply some glitching and I'm hesitant to use them.

* I'd be way more tolerant if there was some visual effect on the radios, because most of my annoyance comes from dying and having no more idea where the radio was after I died than I did before.

IIRC there's an easy way to handle this if you don't mind console commands. Just turn on god mode (tgm) then get close to a radio and let the collar blow up. I won't kill you and from then on it'll be deactivated. Then you just turn god mode back off and go back to playing like usual. I don't remember it causing any issues.

Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009


In places like the pumping station there are actually graffiti arrows that point out a bunch of the radios.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


Paracelsus posted:

In places like the pumping station there are actually graffiti arrows that point out a bunch of the radios.

Yeah, actually, a lot of the Villa areas have this too. The graffiti tends to be helpful throughout most of the DM.

Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009


Even without the arrows, most of the time it's not that hard to just back up when you start to hear the interference, edge forward to confirm the boundary, shift position, find second boundary point, and triangulate.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007

Jesus saves, Gretzky scores! The workers slave, the rich get more. One wrong move - we risk the cup - so play the man, not the puck

Nap Ghost

shocking that taking your time and looking around works, it's almost like they were trying to force you to not rush through the drat game

JawKnee fucked around with this message at Mar 28, 2014 around 21:40

KittyEmpress
Dec 30, 2012

Jam Buddies


It might just have been me, but that final area (the vault) had radios that took me forever to find. I gave up after awhile and just looked up a guide to where they were, because there were like 3-4 in quick succession, in a dark area. That was really the only one that I had actual trouble with, but the mechanic was still bad. It really was not needed, and the DLC had a good enough story to it to work with the collars 'just' being a plot device, instead of an actual mechanic.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

What mechanics were "needed"?

MisterBibs posted:

* I'd be way more tolerant if there was some visual effect on the radios, because most of my annoyance comes from dying and having no more idea where the radio was after I died than I did before.
They're lit up like Christmas trees and a bunch of them have graffiti pointing right at them. You should probably just watch a Let's Play if you're curious about the story.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Where the poo poo does ED-E go after dismissing it?

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Mak0rz posted:

Where the poo poo does ED-E go after dismissing it?
Depending on where you've send the little guy: Either the Lucky38 or Johnson Nash's place in Primm.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Raygereio posted:

Depending on where you've send the little guy: Either the Lucky38 or Johnson Nash's place in Primm.

Dialog said it went to Primm, but where? It isn't in the Nash house where I found it.

A Fancy 400 lbs
Jul 23, 2008


Mak0rz posted:

Dialog said it went to Primm, but where? It isn't in the Nash house where I found it.

Well that's where he should be, sounds like a glitch.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

There's at least 2 radio/speakers in DM that are in areas not accessible when you first come across them. You can hoof it through them, but if you spend your time searching for them, you'll find they're in a area not accessible under later in the area.

But yea, the arrows and graffiti are really helpful.

Now Holoprojectors, those are hidden in really obscure places.

ClearAirTurbulence
Apr 20, 2010
The earth has music for those who listen.

twistedmentat posted:

There's at least 2 radio/speakers in DM that are in areas not accessible when you first come across them. You can hoof it through them, but if you spend your time searching for them, you'll find they're in a area not accessible under later in the area.

But yea, the arrows and graffiti are really helpful.

Now Holoprojectors, those are hidden in really obscure places.

I didn't know that every hologram had a projector until after I had beat the game a few times. The only one I knew about was the one out on the rafters on the elevated area in the hotel bar, where the drunk lady had left some stuff. I just stealthed past or ran past every hologram and didn't find it very hard.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011


Wolfsheim posted:

I think the idea they were trying to instill is more that, even with enough taxes to give a tea partier a heart attack, they're still extremely ineffectual and incompetent. Cass mentions that caravans being waylaid by bandits is still a common and expected problem, even back in NCR territory, and even problems they could solve easily with their resources are tied up in a thick layer bureaucracy, made more absurd exactly because this is a world where giant monsters that shrug off bullets may show up one day to eat your family.

On top of that, there's a few other black marks:

-Extremely harsh prison sentences: why is the guy who stole stimpaks sharing a cell with child murderers?

-Conscription, as mentioned by a few NCR soldiers.

-They treat non-NCR groups pretty terribly: the Khans, almost every quest Moore gives you if you don't go behind her back, the Hostetler quest paints a pretty bad picture of the way locals get by, and in certain endings Arcade is jailed indefinitely for the crimes of his father.

-They literally want to murder House for the crime of not handing them the keys to the place the moment they roll up.

Admittedly, none of this is Legion surprise sex-camp bad, but I still think House is better for the Mojave.

The cutting room floor actually had House handing over power peacefully to the NCR, of course that could have been the Lanius ending of the NCR, which means he eventually plants himself as the new President for Life of the NCR. Of course NV suffered from Junktown syndrome yet again, aka the "Democratic Justice is the obviously good option"

Honestly though, I have a hard time explaining why a good karma with high INT woman would side with the Legion.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at Mar 29, 2014 around 07:34

Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013


gyrobot posted:

Honestly though, I have a hard time explaining why a good karma with high INT woman would side with the Legion.

She wouldn't? I think the option is just there because there's no reason to gate it, and therefore they provided an ending for it, but there's 0 reason for a woman to help the Legion, let alone one with good karma (though karma is admittedly pretty meaningless in Fallout: New Vegas).

Meyers-Briggs Testicle
Aug 13, 2012

But without the hero, there is no Event.


Buglord

Fair Bear Maiden posted:

(though karma is admittedly pretty meaningless in Fallout: New Vegas).

Just like real life

Caufman
May 7, 2007



Fag Boy Jim posted:

Yeah, actually, a lot of the Villa areas have this too. The graffiti tends to be helpful throughout most of the DM.

The graffiti is also one of my favorite parts about Dead Money, one of the smartest combinations of setting and gameplay.

Fair Bear Maiden posted:

She wouldn't? I think the option is just there because there's no reason to gate it, and therefore they provided an ending for it, but there's 0 reason for a woman to help the Legion, let alone one with good karma (though karma is admittedly pretty meaningless in Fallout: New Vegas).

I'm not the first one to bring up Phyllis Schlafly in response to a female Legion playthrough.

Caufman fucked around with this message at Mar 29, 2014 around 10:09

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.






I think the issue with a female Legion-aligned courier is that they came across as way more misogynistic than intended. They were supposed to just look like brutal pragmatists and the whole surprise sex camps thing was part of what Caesar claimed would go away once they settled down. But you've got all the legionaries talking about how much they like raping the slaves and it kind of falls apart, which goes back to the problem that the Legion is still not a good choice even if you take the most utilitarian, sociopathic viewpoint- they will almost certainly fall apart after Caesar dies.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

Mortimer posted:

Has anyone said they didn't like OWB though? Pretty sure that one is universally loved.

Me. I hated the ***super funny writing*** (which was IMHO just regurgitation of certain nerd memes without any added value) and the gameplay and balance of the DLC was completely broken. In short, would say it was the second worst DLC after the Lonesome Road.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007

Jesus saves, Gretzky scores! The workers slave, the rich get more. One wrong move - we risk the cup - so play the man, not the puck

Nap Ghost

steinrokkan posted:

Me. I hated the ***super funny writing*** (which was IMHO just regurgitation of certain nerd memes without any added value) and the gameplay and balance of the DLC was completely broken. In short, would say it was the second worst DLC after the Lonesome Road.

what memes? to me it read as a hyperbolic rendition of a 60's science horror creature feature

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

JawKnee posted:

what memes? to me it read as a hyperbolic rendition of a 60's science horror creature feature

It used the SCIENCE! punchline of every other Reddit meme, as well as the TESLA! punchline of the remaining Reddit memes.

The old sci-fi schlock at least had the decency of not being completely self-ironic which makes it charming through today's lenses.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

I'll have what he's having.


OWB definitely felt like too much too fast for me. You wake up in a random unknown location and before you can even explore anywhere you've got 6 or so new NPCs to learn the personalities and quirks of and they all follow different styles of humor and most of it is bad and not funny and some of it is good and now I've got 11 quests suddenly aaaaa. All of the DLCs for NV have flaws that keep me from really properly enjoying them which is a shame because they are still good despite that.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


Its meant to be a parody of

steinrokkan posted:

It used the SCIENCE! punchline of every other Reddit meme, as well as the TESLA! punchline of the remaining Reddit memes.

The old sci-fi schlock at least had the decency of not being completely self-ironic which makes it charming through today's lenses.

are you one of those people who thinks shakespeare is cliche

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

I'll have what he's having.


I dunno, it just wasn't my kind of humor.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

SpookyLizard posted:

Its meant to be a parody of


are you one of those people who thinks shakespeare is cliche

There's such a thing as bad parody. Especially if it's a parody that fails to grasp what made the original endearing.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003


Say what you will about OWB's writing, I still laugh about Dr. Klein's utter awe when Dr. O reveals that his name is actually a zero, with a line through it, or his thinking you've got an erection when you flip him off.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


A Fancy 400 lbs posted:

Well that's where he should be, sounds like a glitch.

Somehow I'm not surprised. I reloaded an old save without much issue. Some time later I tried to send Rex to the Lucky38 only to find him missing too. I went upstairs in the Kings' building, hoping Rex bugged out and went there instead, only to find him running past me. He was heading to the Lucky38 and I finally managed to catch him just before entering it

More quest griping: Crazy, Crazy, Crazy is an appropriately-named quest. Jesus Christ it's driving me mad. I send Neil to distract the Nightkin which only seems to somehow make them omniscient and they home in on my location

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

I sent Boone away, and he disappeared. I did Player.moveto, and he was outside of the Freeside wall by the Kings' water pump, next to a near-infinate desert, outside of the game's boundaries. Dismissing companions is pretty bugged sometimes.

He also loses his rifle in every playthrough whenever I enter a Casino and none of my other companions do.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

BROTHER I WANT YOU TO JOIN THE DSA AND SUBSCRIBE TO THE AWARD WINNING WWE NETWORK FOR ONLY $9.99 A MONTH


Wolfsheim posted:

Say what you will about OWB's writing, I still laugh about Dr. Klein's utter awe when Dr. O reveals that his name is actually a zero, with a line through it, or his thinking you've got an erection when you flip him off.
The fact its Dr. Venture doing the voice makes me love it even more

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


LividLiquid posted:

I did Player.moveto

I wish there was a solution like this for us console players

I managed to finally get through Crazy, Crazy, Crazy. Dismissing my companions helped, I guess, or maybe I got lucky. In addition to the omniscient nightkin the game would freeze on me during the trek across the base on a regular basis. I'm glad that's behind me.

Caufman
May 7, 2007



achillesforever6 posted:

The fact its Dr. Venture doing the voice makes me love it even more

OWB has got some of the game's best voice actors. And the Mojave might have, like, a dozen different voices for the entire wasteland, but they're generally well-done and add personality to the animatronic NPC dialog animations.

That is, when the audio's matched properly. Laaater.

Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009


LividLiquid posted:

He also loses his rifle in every playthrough whenever I enter a Casino and none of my other companions do.
This is most likely a problem specific to Gomorrah, which has an error in name of the container it returns items to for followers. If you're playing on PC, mods can fix it.

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twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Caufman posted:

OWB has got some of the game's best voice actors. And the Mojave might have, like, a dozen different voices for the entire wasteland, but they're generally well-done and add personality to the animatronic NPC dialog animations.

That is, when the audio's matched properly. Laaater.

90% of all women are played by Laura Bailey it seems, which really is weird to me because I only use her voice in SR3 and 4.

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