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Zeron
Oct 23, 2010


The Stormcloaks in general are racist white nationalists with no real plan beyond "gently caress the empire". Ulfric is a racist, a terrible leader(remember, he had already lost and would have been executed at the start of the game if not for Alduin), is being secretly influenced by the Thalmor, and the last time he became an independent ruler was when he invaded Markarth and butchered those living in the city. They kind of are the unambiguously bad guys.

More on topic, anyone else have trouble not making every run an explosive run? They're just so fun to use that whenever I throw a grenade I get the urge to stop and start another run.

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MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

I've always felt that Skyrim's factional system exposed a truism that we'd rather not admit: it's not good writing that causes people to debate endlessly about which Game Faction is better, it's part-and-parcel with having a factional system in a game at all. Unless you make one side Obviously The Bad Group (and sometimes, even if you do), there's going to be enough people who'll defend/debate the relative goodness/badness of a game's factions.

Regarding maps and navigation, I'll defend New Vegas on this one: the F3 map/engine has a habit of not being very good with smaller, multi-level areas. Going back to Skyrim for a moment, I'd kill for some version of the Clairvoyance spell in F4. Would it make sense? Probably not, but it's so goddamned helpful.

* Am I the only one who naturally pronounces it Kai-sar, thanks to NV?

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


Would you like a spell to walk you to your destination, so your highness loving legs don't get tired while we're at it?

The compass already makes the game so laughably loving easy that I've made points of ignoring it unless it's to guide to me the find the right locker in the wall or the quickest way out of the shithole or whatever the gently caress.

If you give people a choice, they will talk about it. if it's a good choice or a large choice that discussion can go on. If it's high quality, they'll maintain discussions for years on end that cycle only occasionally.

A Fancy 400 lbs
Jul 23, 2008


MisterBibs posted:

* Am I the only one who naturally pronounces it Kai-sar, thanks to NV?

That's how it's supposed to be pronounced, we(modern English speakers) pronounce it differently in normal conversation because we generally base our Latin pronunciation on Church Latin rather than Vulgar or Classical Latin.

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


A Fancy 400 lbs posted:

That's how it's supposed to be pronounced, we(modern English speakers) pronounce it differently in normal conversation because we generally base our Latin pronunciation on Church Latin rather than Vulgar or Classical Latin.

See also: veni, vidi, vici. We all pronounce it ve-nee vid-ee vee-chee when it should be wen-ee wi-dee we-kee.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Looks like Loyal went missing. According to the wiki it's not an uncommon bug once Volare! is completed. So much for doing all of my companions' quests

Caufman
May 7, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

I've always felt that Skyrim's factional system exposed a truism that we'd rather not admit: it's not good writing that causes people to debate endlessly about which Game Faction is better, it's part-and-parcel with having a factional system in a game at all. Unless you make one side Obviously The Bad Group (and sometimes, even if you do), there's going to be enough people who'll defend/debate the relative goodness/badness of a game's factions.

I don't know what you mean when you put scare quotes around good writing. That sounds like anti-fanboyist reductionism that wants to interpret quality as purely a matter of individual preferences, and that always just sounds like Dunning-Kruger sour grapes. I can't speak much to Skyrim's factions; I haven't played it, but it's the next game on queue as soon as I finish my anthropology run.

Of course, I do think the world that Obsidian made in F:NV is made richer and more rewarding to explore and discuss because of its focus on factions and communities in general, especially the clashes between and within these groups. In order for a discussion to grab me, these groups have to be heterogenous enough that their distinctions are meaningful, but without any one faction being so off-the-rails out-there that their relevance only applies to fictional humans. It's not enough just to be a story about factions, like it's some feature that can be checked-off in pre-production to satisfy a segment of the video-game-buying population. Intelligence and rigorous examination in writing is still required to flesh out the factions to be meaningful entities that speak to the human condition. Or else it's just, do you prefer bears or bulls on your logos?

edit:

Mak0rz posted:

Looks like Loyal went missing. According to the wiki it's not an uncommon bug once Volare! is completed. So much for doing all of my companions' quests

Can you summon him out of the aether through console commands? What happens if you tried typing into the console: player.placeatme fed42

edit2: God give you rest, Mak0rz. Let us know if you're considering end-of-life options. We can make it painless.

Caufman fucked around with this message at Apr 12, 2014 around 08:53

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Caufman posted:

Can you summon him out of the aether through console commands? What happens if you tried typing into the console: player.placeatme fed42

Can't! I'm playing the Xbox version

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.

I'm making a LK 9 character with the intention to beeline for Vegas for the first time, but I can't decide whether to go for Cowboy or Grunt for my level 8 perk. Cowboy seems to have more damaging weapons overall, but Grunt weapons generally have better ROF. Is there a generally accepted 'best' choice for a high-crit build? Also, is the extra crit from Built To Destroy worth the extra weapon degradation?

Caufman
May 7, 2007



Well, I say Cowboy, because the gun that immediately comes to mind for you is Lucky, the unique .357 revolver, or the Mysterious Magnum. Or is that too obvious?

edit: Just had my second conversation with Crocker, after doing some rounds in North Vegas and Westside. This is the one where he assigns the Courier to deal with Pacer's harassment of NCR citizens in Freeside. This all got me thinking about a conflict in F:NV that slips in less loudly than other issues, that of class. In video game America as it is in real-life America, class conflicts are evident but unspoken.

Many, many people living in the New Vegas area, be they NCR citizens or Nevada natives, live in absolutely miserable poverty. The circle of poverty that surrounds the Strip is far and deep. This is the first time I've really bothered to map out the sewers under the city, and drat are they extensive and populous. It's unclear just what, if any, work is available to the multitude of poor. Prostitution is widespread, while agriculture is limited and industry very limited. I deeply admire North Vegas Sheriff Crandon's "We can take care of ourselves," attitude towards economic development, but I'm also pessimistic about their odds. Without experts from California (be they NCR, Followers, or unaffiliated good samaritans), how many generations of Nevadans are going to have no formal educational system, no formal healthcare system, no real prospects for life beyond meagre subsistence. Although the casinos are attracting large amounts of wealth to the region, they retain their tribal identities and are unlikely to provide direct employment to many New Vegas dwellers.

Now the NCR squatters in Freeside are living proof that the Republic has not solved its own poverty issues (and perhaps no nation ever will ), but I'm struck by the request made by Crocker in Kings' Gambit. He's asking the Courier to stop violence against some the NCR's most powerless citizens, whose economic value is probably even less than that of the median Nevadan. Now I doubt that Crocker is doing this out of the goodness of his heart, and his first suggestion is to conduct a political assassination. Despite that, it still stands that the ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of the NCR, acting in his capacity as the highest political office-holder in the region, is looking into a situation which directly threatens its marginalized citizenry. To put on my prescriptive (and therefore pro-NCR) hat on explicitly, this gives me strong evidence that the sickness within NCR's democracy has not destroyed all its value, nor is it beyond repair. Even if we analyze Crocker's motives for assigning Kings' Gambit with maximum cynicism, and say that, "Oh, he only cares about the Squatters because it reflects poorly on the Republic, or violence against them threatens travelers who actually have money and matter to the government," regardless it still stands that citizenship makes a difference. The NCR still operates with considerations to the lowest class of its citizenry. Atop that bedrock of republicanism, many great things can be built.

edit2: Ambassador Crocker needs to move that big ugly terminal off his desk. When I have to talk to a sitting NPC, I like to sit down too (another reason to hate Caesar and House; you have to stand in their presence) because I really never have another reason to use that peculiar function. But trying to talk to Crocker like this has me speaking to the back of his computer. Get your poo poo together, man. That's an official office, not some private study you can go write emails and watch porn in.

Caufman fucked around with this message at Apr 12, 2014 around 12:29

wafflemoose
Apr 10, 2009



Crocker is probably doing important NCR stuff on that terminal. Also, Fallout computers don't have graphics, it's all text based command line interfaces, it'd be kinda hard to have porn on Fallout's version of the internet.

Caufman
May 7, 2007



Starhawk64 posted:

Crocker is probably doing important NCR stuff on that terminal. Also, Fallout computers don't have graphics, it's all text based command line interfaces, it'd be kinda hard to have porn on Fallout's version of the internet.

I can tell you were born in the 90s.

Let me tell you of desperate days, young one.

Just stepped out of Gomorrah for likely the last time. I've crapped on its level design enough, let me say this final word on that place: the voice acting there is out of the goddamn park. Probably the best in the game. I just learned that Moe Greene from the Godfather plays Big Sal. No wonder I'm totally convinced by his performance. And also every hood who says, "Cachino? Get the gently caress outta here."

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007



Megamarm

Caufman posted:

I can tell you were born in the 90s.

Let me tell you of desperate days, young one.

Just stepped out of Gomorrah for likely the last time. I've crapped on its level design enough, let me say this final word on that place: the voice acting there is out of the goddamn park. Probably the best in the game. I just learned that Moe Greene from the Godfather plays Big Sal. No wonder I'm totally convinced by his performance. And also every hood who says, "Cachino? Get the gently caress outta here."

I love the way how once you're on his good side Cachino introduces himself with "Hey, what can I do for you?"

wafflemoose
Apr 10, 2009



Frankosity posted:

I'm making a LK 9 character with the intention to beeline for Vegas for the first time, but I can't decide whether to go for Cowboy or Grunt for my level 8 perk. Cowboy seems to have more damaging weapons overall, but Grunt weapons generally have better ROF. Is there a generally accepted 'best' choice for a high-crit build? Also, is the extra crit from Built To Destroy worth the extra weapon degradation?

What's up high Luck buddy!

Why not take both? Grunt is great for lower levels and makes the unique .45 Pistol A Light Shining in the Darkness amazingly overpowered. Grunt is also alot easier to get since the secondary requirement is 20 in Explosives, which every character will pretty much have at the start. Cowboy requires 45 in Melee, which is a pretty step requirement for a skill that won't be used that often. That being said, Cowboy is great for later levels once the lever action rifles start showing up. You may want a high Agility and/or Rapid Reload perk however, the weapons covered by Cowboy have painfully slow reloading times since you have to reload each bullet one at a time. Alternately since you're using a high-Luck build, go with energy weapons and take Laser Commander when it becomes available, you'll be vaporizing fools left and right, my current character started off with Guns and then switched to Energy Weapons in true Fallout fashion and it's ridiculous how often the ashpile animation triggers, especially with a Gatling Laser. Of course, I'm playing without Logan's Loophole so I have more perks to play with, might be difficult to squeeze in perks for both if you're running Logan's Loophole and/or JE Sawyer.

I said a while ago that Energy Weapons are boring. I was partially wrong, they are boring to start the game with because nothing but pistols are available, but once the really cool toys and perks show up they are amazingly fun. The Holorifle is worth the trouble of slogging through Dead Money, the LAER is an amazing if fragile alternative to the Tri-Beam Laser Rifle. The Telsa Cannon and Gauss Rifle are loads of fun and have the hilarious side effect of blowing enemies away in a fashion similar to the Anti-Material Rifle. The Laser Rifle modded with a scope and using Bulk MFCs is a great trash mob killer, and it's Tri-Beam counterpart is a great go-to weapon that's more durable than the LAER and doesn't have that annoying "Aim Down Sights" issue that "plagues" all the other weapons. The Gatling Laser is just nuts. Honestly, while Guns are more practical, Energy Weapons are superior in every way. The only problem is how rare the ammo can be, and how frickin' heavy it is if running Hardcore. I have all the carrying capacity perks and inventory management is still a pain. Oh and energy weapons wear out faster than guns, better have plenty of weapon repair kits, have fun hunting down the materials to make them or slogging through Dead Money to unlock the Vending Machine.

wafflemoose fucked around with this message at Apr 12, 2014 around 16:39

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Caufman posted:

God give you rest, Mak0rz. Let us know if you're considering end-of-life options. We can make it painless.

I at least picked it up in a drugstore bargain bin for change . I think I'm done with it for a while though, or at least done attempting "completionist" runs. Maybe I'll buy the Steam version in the future and try again with the console to save me from inevitable bugs.

Caufman
May 7, 2007



How's the stability on the console version?

I'm starting to suspect that a lot of my crashes might be related to my mods. I tried to keep it very light this run with only jsawyer and the content restoration mods. Crashes are most common in Big MT and Zion.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

The 360 version is reasonably stable until you do a DLC, then crashes get more frequent and the Quests menu takes forever to load, and there's lag when opening containers and stuff. That might just be a save-file size thing of course.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Caufman posted:

I'm starting to suspect that a lot of my crashes might be related to my mods. I tried to keep it very light this run with only jsawyer and the content restoration mods. Crashes are most common in Big MT and Zion.
You can try NVAC and see if it reduces the crashing.

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005


Just finished my independent Explosives run. It's probably my favorite out of all the runs I've done so far because explosive weapons are really, really goddamn powerful. Esther is probably my favorite weapon in the game now; I was able to send Lanius, Rawr, Ulysses, and other super Deathclaws flying with one Big Kid mini nuke. I manged to clear out 4 Deathclaws with one Big Kid nuke as well. The Anti-Materiel Rifle and the YCS/186 have nothing on the Esther's sheer power.

I'm getting ready for my Harccore Legion Unarmed and Melee run. I've heard that Melee and Unarmed characters should go to OWB ASAP. Is this a good idea, or should I hold it off for a bit and get a decent amount of supplies and good weapons before heading there?

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

Well, OWB is probably going to be annoying with the sheer amount of enemies, but you'll get the Inverse Proton Axe there and that makes the rest of the game trivial, so.

wafflemoose
Apr 10, 2009



So I finished up Lonesome Road, and I couldn't decide if I wanted to blow up both NCR and Legion or stop the missiles so I played both endings. Both times I was able to team up with Ulysses, which was pretty badass. I can't decide if I'm going to go NCR or House. saving Independent and Legion (...ugh) for another time. I have to admit that I've never beaten the game before, always seem to get burned out near the end and either start over or lose my saves. But I am determined to finish! Also, why is it so drat hard to find a pair of Authority Glasses, I didn't find a pair until Lonesone Road. Looks awesome with Joshua Graham's armor and the 1st Recon Beret.

wafflemoose fucked around with this message at Apr 13, 2014 around 20:38

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007



Megamarm

There are a whole bunch of authority glasses outside of the old nuclear test site, in a kind of observation deck. That's far off the main quest path and no side quest ever sends you there, though, so it makes sense that not many players may visit. There's also a small chance that they'll spawn on the corpse of a scavenger inside the Nevada Highway Patrol Station.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003


StandardVC10 posted:

There are a whole bunch of authority glasses outside of the old nuclear test site, in a kind of observation deck. That's far off the main quest path and no side quest ever sends you there, though, so it makes sense that not many players may visit. There's also a small chance that they'll spawn on the corpse of a scavenger inside the Nevada Highway Patrol Station.

It doesn't help that right over the hill from said glasses is about a dozen feral ghouls, reavers and glowing ones included

wafflemoose
Apr 10, 2009



Wolfsheim posted:

It doesn't help that right over the hill from said glasses is about a dozen feral ghouls, reavers and glowing ones included

Oh good, more target practice.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





MisterBibs posted:

I've always felt that Skyrim's factional system exposed a truism that we'd rather not admit: it's not good writing
As opposed to "actual" good writing, like your dad (or rather, ANYONE) not actually chewing you out for being a complete piece of poo poo wherever you go, or the entirety of the endearing Little Lamplight experience where you relate to the perils of being a bulletproof child?

May I suggest to you the Call of Duty series for solid writing you may enjoy? Modern Warfare 2's sudden and shocking massacre of Russian civilians was a masterpiece.

DeathChicken posted:

Well, OWB is probably going to be annoying with the sheer amount of enemies, but you'll get the Inverse Proton Axe there and that makes the rest of the game trivial, so.
OWB is a programming marvel in that there really were only the same 9 refids being used at a time for the dynamic encounters (example: if you try to loot the previous goods from 5 minutes ago, the bodies have already vanished). This is one of the ways New Vegas avoided hitting the 16 million dynamic refid bug that causes Fallout 3 to permacrash (it will continue making refids within the #FF space, causing a permanent crash sometime after it reaches the FFFxxxxx mark.)

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at Apr 14, 2014 around 01:20

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010


Without too much spoilers, if I go a complete 'gently caress NCR' run, how many quests will I miss out on. After literally punching Camp Forlorn to death I saw a lot of 'Quest Failed' markers. Do I miss out on a lot of the games content if I just forgo them?

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





SkySteak posted:

Without too much spoilers, if I go a complete 'gently caress NCR' run, how many quests will I miss out on. After literally punching Camp Forlorn to death I saw a lot of 'Quest Failed' markers. Do I miss out on a lot of the games content if I just forgo them?
That's the point. You miss out on dozens of quests depending on which faction you piss off, making repeat playthroughs significantly different.

Roobanguy
May 30, 2011


SkySteak posted:

Without too much spoilers, if I go a complete 'gently caress NCR' run, how many quests will I miss out on. After literally punching Camp Forlorn to death I saw a lot of 'Quest Failed' markers. Do I miss out on a lot of the games content if I just forgo them?

Yes, the NCR has quite a few quests.

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

That's the point. You miss out on dozens of quests depending on which faction you piss off, making repeat playthroughs significantly different.

Oh yeah, I'm perfectly fine with that. My fear is that the NCR have a disproportionate amount of stuff attached to them, to the point that you miss out on a ton more than if you went against the other factions.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

I'll have what he's having.


There is, quite literally, no way to do every available quest on one playthrough. After a certain point the game takes notice of you playing both sides of the field and tells you to cut that poo poo out or you'll have level 30 death squads on your rear end. NCR has, I believe, more quests than the Legion, but their endgame basically boils down to the same thing all of them do: Go to this location and convince them to work with/for us, repeat 10 times with 10 different factions.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





SkySteak posted:

Oh yeah, I'm perfectly fine with that. My fear is that the NCR have a disproportionate amount of stuff attached to them, to the point that you miss out on a ton more than if you went against the other factions.
If you don't mind a minor general spoiler, a number of NCR quests have Legion-appropriate ways to solve them to compensate for the lack of Legion-specific quests due to being pressed for time. A few of the NCR quests are also actually faction neutral -- doing the "good karma" Yes Man or House paths have you do those quests from different angles.

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010


Fair enough, I got the NCR to hate me after killing their raid on the NCR Correctional Facility. I'm saving a couple quests I want to do, when I get that Presidential pardon.

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005


SkySteak posted:

Fair enough, I got the NCR to hate me after killing their raid on the NCR Correctional Facility. I'm saving a couple quests I want to do, when I get that Presidential pardon.

I used my pardon after I nuked both the NCR and the Legion. The NCR is really chill to forgive nuking them.

Thank You Card
Mar 20, 2007

I'm your only friend.


SkySteak posted:

Oh yeah, I'm perfectly fine with that. My fear is that the NCR have a disproportionate amount of stuff attached to them, to the point that you miss out on a ton more than if you went against the other factions.

They do, but a lot of the NCR quests are just stuff like "kill this pack of mutants that we're too busy to kill" anyways. Sure they do have some quests with good content, but you're not missing out as much as it may seem.

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005


Thank You Card posted:

They do, but a lot of the NCR quests are just stuff like "kill this pack of mutants that we're too busy to kill" anyways. Sure they do have some quests with good content, but you're not missing out as much as it may seem.

You could probably make up most of the experience by murdering every NCR person anywho.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


For the whole "wreck the dam" thing, I guess there would be implications in doing that in the post game content before that was scrapped?

Mr. New Vegas, some named NPCs, random wastelanders and Secrutitrons all have unused dialogue for each of the four possible outcomes of the battle for the dam that's apparently in the game files.

wafflemoose
Apr 10, 2009



What are some good mods that increase the amount of enemy spawns? It gets boring having nothing to shoot at while running all over the Mojave. Sometimes I go back to Big MT to test out new weapons on the frequent respawning enemies there.

JawKnee
Mar 24, 2007

Jesus saves, Gretzky scores! The workers slave, the rich get more. One wrong move - we risk the cup - so play the man, not the puck

Nap Ghost

IWS is the mod for you

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


OldMemes posted:

For the whole "wreck the dam" thing, I guess there would be implications in doing that in the post game content before that was scrapped?
Unless I'm really misremembering, you don't wreck the Dam, Yes Man just suggests that its a good idea and something to consider in the future.

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Pope Guilty
Nov 6, 2006

The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

JawKnee posted:

IWS is the mod for you

IWS plus GRA: The Right to Bear Arms if you really want a crazier experience. Increase Wasteland Spawns adds more dudes (in particular more soldiers and gangers) to the wasteland while GRA: the Right to Bear Arms takes all the guns from Gun Runners' Arsenal and gives them to random people in the wasteland. The two combined makes for some pretty over the top fights!

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