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Samopsa posted:Fo3 had no logical economy whatsoever. No production of anything anywhere, no food, no fresh water, no trade routes, no farms, etc. Don't even try to think about monatery systems in that game. Never thought about that but it makes me appreciate NV more. You can actually see and visit, say, the quarry and refinery for the stone, and get a sense of established trade routes and so on. I guess the Capital Wasteland is more of a "scrounger's economy." There's no production, like the Gun Runners (though they make bullets in The Pitt). The closest thing is those five crazy merchants who have their own route and who you can invest in, but they clearly just operate by selling stuff they found. It's a much more primitive society, which to me is believable as post-apocalypse, which is maybe why seeing the NCR infrastructure that's so advanced in comparison in NV is kind of jarring.
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Sep 8, 2012 19:23
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Isn't the incongruity of the setting because of Bethesda's weird "Every new game must be later in the timeline" rule that they're following with their games? It would make a lot more sense if F3 took place, say, a couple of decades or so after the bombs. The big iconic stuff -- the Vaults, Power Armor (even if it weren't Brotherhood of Steel, you could have some other faction built around them), Super Mutants -- are all things that would still make sense even earlier. But no, MIT is building replicants while the people around the Capital Wasteland have been living off snack cakes from ruined supermarkets for centuries.
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Sep 8, 2012 19:33
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The justification for the difference is that the east coast (specifically DC itself) suffered far more damage from the bombs. The Mojave didn't get hit nearly as bad. Most of the capital wasteland was completely uninhabitable until just a few years before the events of FO3.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:47
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FlyingCheese posted:The justification for the difference is that the east coast (specifically DC itself) suffered far more damage from the bombs. The Mojave didn't get hit nearly as bad. Most of the capital wasteland was completely uninhabitable until just a few years before the events of FO3. The Mojave, or at least the area of the game, wasn't hit at all due to House's defenses. That's why entire casinos are completely functional and Nellis isn't a smoking crater. Was anyone else expecting Caesar's Legion to have arisen from Caesar's Palace as a Vegas faction rather than an outside force based on initial information and advertisements?
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Sep 8, 2012 22:06
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Brahmin are strangely loyal creatures. I fast traveled to Freeside's north gate and one spawned running south, so I followed him the whole way till he caught up and fell in step with a merchant south of the 188. It might have just been the LOD model but he looked like he was running upright on his hind legs toward the end. e: huh, and here's Little Buster's dead body on the tracks behind the Mormon Fort. What the hell? Saint Sputnik fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 22:06
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Derek Dominoe posted:The Mojave, or at least the area of the game, wasn't hit at all due to House's defenses. That's why entire casinos are completely functional and Nellis isn't a smoking crater. House tells you his defenses destroyed the majority of the nukes, but that a small number managed to slip past due to a delay in the delivery of the platinum chip. It was, like, eight or something.
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Sep 8, 2012 22:53
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thehumandignity posted:House tells you his defenses destroyed the majority of the nukes, but that a small number managed to slip past due to a delay in the delivery of the platinum chip. It was, like, eight or something. Yep, with wild wasteland on you can even find an undetonated one near the unique mini-gun.  It's also why Mr. House couldn't do anything for 200 years, because the explosions knocked out his main power.
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Sep 8, 2012 22:56
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Saint Sputnik posted:e: huh, and here's Little Buster's dead body on the tracks behind the Mormon Fort. What the hell? That happened to Little Buster in my last playthrough as well. I have no idea how. 
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Sep 9, 2012 00:52
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Bilal posted:That happened to Little Buster in my last playthrough as well. I have no idea how. I happens automatically if you talk to him after completing 3-card bounty, enjoy the Cram Opener!
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Sep 9, 2012 00:58
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Bilal posted:That happened to Little Buster in my last playthrough as well. I have no idea how. Yeah when you first meet him he goes on about how he's going to go win big at Gomorrah. I guess that didn't go so well for the poor little guy.  e: Cram Opener is great fun though so, worth it
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Sep 9, 2012 01:20
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Nowhere in FO3 actually looks like a sustainable community, except maybe Rivert City and Megaton (but where do they get their food? Is it all pre-war stuff and cannibalism? That doesn't make much sense,). The towns in the Mojave are close together that the communties seem pretty tight knit, and there's farms, edible plants, clean water and wild animals to eat, and it's on the border of the NCR, which makes trading easy. More to the point, how are the seemingly infinite number of super mutants in Fallut 3 sustainable? How is Vault 87 capable of supplying them? In Fallout 1, the Master was mass producing an army, and in New Vegas, a small group have settled down to farm, but Fallout 3 has a load of heavily armoured mutants who do stuff for...some reason? I really hated how they mostly have no personality in Fallout 3. Just wondering, will supplies of FEV ever run out in the Fallout World, so they'll only ever be a limited number of Super Mutants? Alot of the design of Fallout 3 makes no real sense.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:06
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Why were there super mutants at all in FO3?
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Sep 9, 2012 03:19
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Improbable Lobster posted:Why were there super mutants at all in FO3? They all came out of Vault 87. I don't have that much of a problem with how the communities in FO3 seem unsustainable. Like I said, they're obviously a less established, more primitive form of society than in the west. But CharlieFoxtrot is right, it doesn't make much sense for that society to last 200 years (unless they're getting all their food and stuff from vaults?)
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Sep 9, 2012 03:38
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If I remember correctly, FO3 had a trade network based in Canterbury Commons with like four or five traders that roamed between a few key places to trade. Though, I doubt that this would have been nearly enough for the population to have food and water. In the end, NV had a much better way of explaining how the population got fresh food/water without having to rely on hand-waving over basic facts like people can't drink only irradiated drinks and eat only 200 year-old, irradiated food like FO3 did.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:46
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Ah yes, Canterbury Commons: A critical component in the DC trading scene. Home to six people who squat in bombed out buildings and endure harassment at the hands of two costumed psychopaths. Canterbury Commons, the major importer of 200-year-old medicine and Wolfgang's worthless detritus. Majestic. Sometimes I want to write a novelization of Fo3, and it would be a literal interpretation of the game. "Uncle Roe took his job very seriously. As the mayor of Canterbury Commons, his job was to maintain the 4 people who supplied the entire DC Wasteland with rotten food and garbage. He would spend hours sitting in a roofless diner, drinking 200-year-old wine and worrying that Derek might get hurt on the broken glass littering the floor. One day somebody would have to clean up all that broken glass. Uncle Roe was too busy with his very important job, however. "He had heard stories of a town far to the South, built on the rusty hulk of an old aircraft carrier. Rumor had it, there were people on that boat who were a lot like him: People with important jobs, working hard to rebuild civilization by scavenging for rotten TV dinners and junk metal. One day he'd make the mile-long pilgrimage to Rivet City." Cream-of-Plenty fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 04:20
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I enjoyed FO3, but what personality it has is isolated to things like the radio station, signs on buildings, and the Point Lookout add-on. It felt more like being a wanderer in an empty land. Look at the raiders - in FO3 they're generic bad guys who Three Dog gives you permission to kill whenever you see them. Bethesda games usually bore me to the point where I could only played an hour of Oblivian and a few hours of Skyrim. Fallout 3 followed the generic fantasy narrative, with BOS as knights and super mutants as orcs. NV is more a mix of noir and Westerns. You can see it in the start of the games: FO3 uses a JRPG/Heroes Journey 'doomed hometown' setup. NV is more about revenge.
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Sep 9, 2012 04:27
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Bilal posted:The main currency in FO2 was gold coins. Presumably all those coins were seized or turned in to the NCR when they made the switch to gold-backed currency (which is fiat by the events of NV, as explained on this page.)
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Sep 9, 2012 04:42
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Sometimes I want to write a novelization of Fo3, and it would be a literal interpretation of the game. Would totally read that. Actually I'd love a Fallout universe novelization, because I'm dying to know the state of the world outside the handful of regions in America we've seen.
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Sep 9, 2012 05:14
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Ravenfood posted:I thought the BoS blew up the NCR's gold storage during their war, which is why they switched to fiat. Yes, but they had already switched to paper currency and were backing the paper with their gold reserves.
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Sep 9, 2012 05:18
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I'm curious, I bought the Pitt DLC, but have yet to ever play it, is it good?
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Sep 9, 2012 05:20
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It's generally held to be one of the better ones. The environment is pretty interesting and there's some cool loot. The plot feels kind of contrived in that they force a pretty ridiculous "THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER" scenario at the end, but didn't really ruin it for me. I also hope you like scavenger hunts because that is like 30% of the DLC
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Sep 9, 2012 05:26
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The Pitt is decent. The best part is the bit that's a bit like Dead Money; they steal all your poo poo, shove you out the door into a hostile environment and tell you "Hey, try to survive, good luck!" Slowly ascending that old steel mill and fighting my way through the raiders using nothing but a pair of spiked knuckles stands out at as one of the more interesting/challenging parts of Fallout 3. It always bothered me at the end, though. Not the stupid morality thing they backed out of (The choice being either help the evil slavers and save the baby OR kill the evil slavers but still save the baby) but that at the end, your choice is between siding with a bunch of unique NPCs that hang out in an awesome urban treetop city and post-apocalyptic high-rise or siding with a bunch of generic NPCs who live in their own trash, with the urban treetop city staying empty and the high-rise permanently inaccessible. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 05:32
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Saint Sputnik posted:Would totally read that. Australia would be nuts. It would be 90% inhospitable desert filled with absurdly deadly insects, with a few isolated civilizations clinging to the coasts. The currency wound be beer bottles and most weapons would be ancient guns and improvised melee weapons. So no change. It looks like I'll be seeing my old New England home in FO4, but I'm not confident it'll be good. I liked the Pitt until the stupid choice at the end. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 05:41
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The Pitt also has the Metal Blaster, which owns.
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Sep 9, 2012 05:49
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Pope Guilty posted:The Pitt also has the Metal Blaster, which owns. Nothing beats Point Lookout - Lovecraft references, evil rednecks, shotguns and hallucinogenic fruit.
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Sep 9, 2012 05:52
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I want a Fallout set in Canada. Mutant polar bears and poo poo, yo
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Sep 9, 2012 05:55
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I bought vanilla F:NV a long while ago and I'm thinking of starting back up again. I'd like to get DLC because I've heard really good things about it, and even Lonesome Road, the DLC that seems to be the least-liked, doesn't seem terrible. Which DLC is worth buying and which DLC should I skip over? Neodymium fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 06:05
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Improbable Lobster posted:I want a Fallout set in Canada. I want a Mounties version of the Rangers Count Chocula posted:Nothing beats Point Lookout - Lovecraft references, evil rednecks, shotguns and hallucinogenic fruit. Bullet-sponge enemies aside, PLo was the best one -- you could come and go as you pleased, varied settings, and mutant redneck swamp folk. It's why I want a whole Fallout set around New Orleans.
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Sep 9, 2012 06:05
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I'd just like to point out that the biggest problem with Megaton is that it has water. A beggar right outside will tell you how they only give clean water to residents, and there's a massive pipe system that is in dire need of repair, leaking water everywhere. Clean water in the middle of the capital wasteland. In the middle of a game where the central plotline is based entirely around how the entire capital wasteland has no real access to clean water.
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Sep 9, 2012 06:22
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Derek Dominoe posted:Was anyone else expecting Caesar's Legion to have arisen from Caesar's Palace as a Vegas faction rather than an outside force based on initial information and advertisements? That was exactly what I was hoping for when they only mentioned Caesar's Legion without going into detail on their origin. I was picturing a bunch of guys in worn-out, ineffectual togas getting into rumbles on the Strip with another gang that dressed like the Jets from West Side Story, lead pipes and switchblades everywhere.
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Sep 9, 2012 07:20
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Derek Dominoe posted:Was anyone else expecting Caesar's Legion to have arisen from Caesar's Palace as a Vegas faction rather than an outside force based on initial information and advertisements? I really didn't get it. They didn't seem remotely compelling, though I was interested in where they'd go with a group of largely generic raiders. I minored in Classics and I've been studying Latin since high school. I have no idea how I failed to make that connection until I actually saw my first picture of a legionnaire.
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Sep 9, 2012 07:33
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Neodymium posted:I bought vanilla F:NV a long while ago and I'm thinking of starting back up again. All of the DLC is worth it, although Courier's Stash is just free items for you starting off.
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Sep 9, 2012 08:45
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You do need Couriers Stash for the
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Sep 9, 2012 09:01
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Eiba posted:I'll admit that when I first heard of them, I failed to make the connection to the Roman Empire. I was thinking Caesar was just some Hispanic slaver dude. The "Legion" part of their name managed to not trigger anything at first. I remember hearing they'd use sports equipment as armor, and I was seriously picturing a bunch of raiders in tattered football gear. This makes me glad I went into New Vegas literally knowing nothing about it. All I knew is that Obsidian was making a Fallout game. I had to google it to order it on Amazon because I didn't even know what the name was. Also I like how you minored in Classics, but you still say legionnaire.
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Sep 9, 2012 13:31
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Eiba posted:I was thinking Caesar was just some Hispanic slaver dude. "Hey Caesar, the yay leaving San Fierro, right?" "Right, but they're using caravans and they go cross country!"
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Sep 9, 2012 13:37
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Here's an interview with Tim Cain!Tim Cain posted:I don't remember the specific details of my plans for Fallout 2, but I do remember playing the game and seeing it was different from the storyline I had proposed for it. I think my biggest disappointment with the game is that each area was made in almost complete isolation from the others. There was no over-arching theme and no attempt to make sure the different areas were cohesive. It felt like a lot of Fallout-y areas, placed adjacently and connected with a storyline. Those areas were individually well-done, but they suffered from the lack of a strong central design. Gee, what other Fallout game could he be describing?
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Sep 9, 2012 13:54
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Neodymium posted:I bought vanilla F:NV a long while ago and I'm thinking of starting back up again. Like HiroChicken said: get them all. The four main DLCs each have their own stories and themes (all of which tie into the Mojave in some way) but each is different enough in style and design from the main game that they feel like short stories orbiting a novel. Courier's Stash just gets you some more guns and other cool poo poo, but you need all of them for the sawyer mod, which is the one mod that I'll never play New Vegas again without. I hate to use Besthesda games as a comparison (and I'm making an assumption here that you've played any of them), but New Vegas with the Sawyer mod has a Morrowind feel to it: in your early to mid levels, you're almost always afraid. In a good way, I mean. You're weak, you can't take a lot of damage, and the Mojave comes off as the dangerous place it should be. You want to explore but you're always a little nervous about what you'll find. It isn't exactly punishing (eg Dark Souls), but the added difficulty--environmental and survival, as opposed to bullet-sponge enemies--makes you more invested in the game. You feel like you earn whatever ending you finish with.
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Sep 9, 2012 14:12
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Can you guys just give me a quick rundown on why people praise JSawyer so much? I just scrolled through the wiki on it and all I can see is that it just makes everything way heavier. How else is it engaging?
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Sep 9, 2012 15:40
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That DICK! posted:I just scrolled through the wiki on it and all I can see is that it just makes everything way heavier. http://www.falloutwiki.com/JSawyer You skimmed that list and all you saw was that some things were heavier?
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Sep 9, 2012 15:45
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I find it hilarious that in 200 years, Calfornia has formed a government, restarted industrial production, a proper miltary and has a full democratic society. Meanwhile, in the Captial Wasteland people are sitting around in tiny settlements, doing nothing except eating 200 year old food, and being lazy and not really doing anything. Lucas really couldn't get anyone else to disram that nuke? He was just gonna leave it there? 
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Sep 9, 2012 15:58
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