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gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Fag Boy Jim posted:

The only part of HC I hated was that companions died. If a companion dies, which is generally something you can't control like "Boone inexplicably decides to draw his knife and run across a field toward a Legion Assassin", you're just going to reload anyway.

Forget that, being taken out by irradiated wasps is a pain. And Boone can do the machete dance most legionaires as his melee is as nasty as his skill with his rifle. Give him a super sledge and watch as he mauls them like a bear.

And finally gotten all the DLCs, playing as a mafioso gives me that sense of satisfaction of gunning benny down like something out of Godfather.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Nov 25, 2011

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gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Dush posted:

NV suffers from Not Enough NPCs Syndrome, which makes places that should be bustling just seem kind of dead. Like Freeside is meant to be a crowded slum, Caesar's Fort should really be full of soldiers. It's an engine limitation but it stands out because the world building besides that is really good. Contrast to FO3 where you don't really notice because nothing makes sense anyway. Community on a centuries-old ship that crashed on some rocks? Sure. Town around a nuke? Awesome. Inexplicable rich people poncing it up in a tall hotel? Great. Where do any of these groups get their food... ? gently caress it who cares.

Bethesda are also apparently incapable of making companions who are interesting or have any personality but that's another thing entirely.

At least can make an evil companion. The only buddies you will have is a cybernetic dog and 2 irradiated badasses if you persue the path of crufixing everyone.

Where is my human ammoral sociopath who counts the amount of dead NCR during his loyalty quest?

And I started on old world blues and made a character based on the human forms of Think Tank. A "clone" who was supposed to be a new biological platform for the think tanks and produced Klein or Mobius with their traits. (Mobius has Explosives, Science and Unarmed while Klein has Repair, Science and Energy Weapons). Needless to say, I had klein choose inethical answer to science related quests while Mobius chooses the answers with the most amount of explosions and have an addiction to Ruby's Cassorole. As a safety precaution. The Logan Gene was implanted to the body to allow immunity to addiction but unfortunately limits the amount of knowledge the clone can absorb.

Meanwhile my Doctor 0 clone is packed to the brim with emp and pulse grenades and kills every securitron on sight. Even if it means fighting with NCR police since htey must be working to contribute to Mr House's doomsday device.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Dec 1, 2011

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Saoshyant posted:

Raul? He's not super crazy about them, but he likes the stability they have brought to the east and doesn't mind if the Courier joins them. Or are you thinking of a rabid Legion fanboy character?

A rabid Legion Fanboy so to speak, yeah where is my evil bastard who wants to see the world burn or firmly believes in "The weak are meat the strong eat"

And Ulysses was supposed to be a literal Companion version of the Courier. He starts off serving a Courier and later reveals why he didn't off you on the first chance he saw you as he knew that almost all of the Couriers are Frumentarii. pending on your decision, you can tell him to stick to the Legion, join the NCR in hopes of teaching the bear to become a savage beast who mauls everyone, join House as he has even greater visions and had already succeed or to create an Independant Vegas to revive his dreams for a new Hopeville. Of course, if you didn't go through with the plan and Ulysses will threaten to off you for betraying your belief.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Willie Tomg posted:

Speaking of breaking in to things: Karma is a little bit hosed i/r/t stealing, I feel. My current character's actions are that of a saint, everywhere he goes problems get wrapped up and people are happy and mostly alive and feeling good about stuff. But because I can't help but take the five-finger discount in every building (helllloooooo to you too unguarded bank vault in Boulder City!!) my Karma is in the shitter.

It's a minor point, because reputation matters way more than Karma and I get that but goddammit Obsidian, when you get down to brass tacks I'm a nice guy. Stop calling me The Sword of Despair!!!

Negative connotations with what happened with NCR prospectors. Prospectors in Fallout literally come greet you with Pancor Jackhammers.

Began playing Dead Money as well, playing it like Isaac Clarke and dismembering ghost people with a smuggled nail gun like a boss.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011
Speaking of the endings. Here was some of the endings I crafted for if Ulysses had been a companion from what the wiki said about Ulysses

Ulysses remains loyal to Legion and Legion Wins with Caesar in charge

Ulysses, thanks to the courier became once more faithful to the Bull. He returned to say that the Courier was indeed one of the Frumentarii sent to retrieve the chip and that it was his recommendation and was sent to continue westward into the heart of the NCR to deal another blow, there he walked with a tattered jacket, the Bull etched on the back...

Ulysses knew the Bull now has a future, New Vegas will become it's future and with it other tribes will flock to the capital not as soldiers but as aspiring citizens.


Ulysses remains loyal to Legion and Legion Wins with Lanius in charge

Ulysses, thanks to the courier became once more faithful to the Bull. He returned to say that the Courier was indeed one of the Frumentarii sent to retrieve the chip and that it was his recommendation and was sent to continue westward into the heart of the NCR to deal another blow, there he walked with a tattered jacket, the Bull etched on the back...

Ulysses knew the Bull had no future when the Legate is too old to carry a blade, New Vegas will only sustain his bloodlust for so long and when he dies the Bull will die.


Ulysses remains loyal to Legion and Legion Wins with Lanius in charge

Ulysses, thanks to the courier became once more faithful to the Bull. He returned to say that the Courier was indeed one of the Frumentarii sent to retrieve the chip and that it was his recommendation and was sent to continue westward into the heart of the NCR to deal another blow, there he walked with a tattered jacket, the Bull etched on the back...

Ulysses knew the Bull had no future when the Legate is too old to carry a blade, New Vegas will only sustain his bloodlust for so long and when he dies the Bull will die.



Ulysses remains loyal to Legion but the Legion is defeated

Betrayed by the Courier's words, Ulysses was condemned by Caesar for his actions. As Legionairies came to hang and quarter Ulysses for the betrayal. Ulysses fought his way out of the camp and returned to Dry Wells. There he committed suicide as he saw there was no future for him or the Legion


Ulysses allies with the NCR

Persuaded the Bear can become strong, the Courier and Ulysses worked together to help the Bear awake from it's slumber and it became a ferocious beast which destroyed all before it. Ulysses set back East to find a means to free it from the Legion and there he walked with a tattered jacket, the Bear etched on the back...

But he knew the Bear only knows hunger, it could no longer slumber now that it had woke and the Bear seeks to satiate itself. The Bear will starve itself out and bring upon the great slumber that America had felt 200 years ago.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

ClearAirTurbulence posted:

You have the same ending twice, and some pretty glaring grammatical errors - English a second language?

Yes unfortunately it is my second language.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

thepopstalinist posted:

Starting a new run, this looks like the hardcore mode I always hoped for! Plus karma fixes, finally! You're the best Ropekid.

Not to mention now we will see what will happen to the NCR which will become like Pre-War America in a bad way since now Moore is an evil NPC.

Also, Sawyer is making you have a guilt trip killing addicts.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Dec 30, 2011

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

rope kid posted:

In VB he was a horrible monster without (m)any redeeming qualities. Terrible past and current bad attitude. Generally nasty all-around. Kind of like adventuring with Keyser Söze.

Kind of like Myron and FO3's evil companions. A real shame there are no evil companions this game

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Speedball posted:

So instead he's a guy who means well, but is still scary as hell about it. Huh. Interesting writing progression.


Apparently Ulysseys was going to be your Legion-affiliated companion in the main game before they cut him into the DLC chapters instead. His characterization was probably going to be a lot different, though.

I knew about that, according to Behind the Scenes, he is pretty much the antithesis of Arcade Gannon. He could however be reasoned in seeing that the Bull is a dying cause and would side another group for a variety of reasons.

And I wouldn't trust any of the control vaults. As far as control vaults go, they were to some extent extremely autocratic. Look at Vault City for a good example of how pre-war society was like. An Orwellian nightmare where you are to serve your corporate masters

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Fibby Boy posted:

As for the Survivalist, check around the Red Gate. It's northish from the Red Rapids Docks. His skeleton is up top the rocks with his final log and a spiffy rifle.

I wonder if Waking Cloud will react to that, knowing that their principal was a flawed man who had seen everything cruel about humanity and nearly fell into that void. Or does does that happen if she find the corpse?

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Speedball posted:

I think Bethesda got the setting, and they definitely were up on their continuity for the setting, but they sort of...simplified it. Basically, Fallout 3 has a heavy black-and-white morality to the whole thing, not just in the karma system but in that the Brotherhood faction is a bunch of good guys while the D.C. super mutants are all maniacs and so forth. Then Fallout New Vegas comes around and it's got morally muddy waters again, more complex situations.

Let me reiterate: Fallout 3 is not bad at all. It's just much, much less complex, plus the simplified villains were probably intentional since it was going to be a whole generation of gamers' first introduction to the setting anyway. And from a game engine standpoint they really went the other direction: LOTS of STUFF EVERYWHERE. Plus, without it, New Vegas never would have gotten made.

Hell I got an explanation for why Talon Company would go after you aside from being a goody two shoes. The Enclave has been trying to wipe out mutants in the wasteland but since sending out men in power armor is both overkill and a bitch on paperwork they paid Littleton and Associates to make a contract that involves payin a large sum of caps and military supplies in exchange for meeting the "mutant elimination quota". When you chose that perk, you are indirectly helping the Enclave by removing the muties, one bullet at a time.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

I think the most mystifying thing is that for as large and prominent of a faction as Talon Company is, they're never explained or used in the story in any capacity. And the mystery isn't maintained in a, "Man, that's so cool and vague!" way that leaves you pondering the tantalizing possibilities, it's more like a, "Why the hell aren't they explained? Incompetent story writing strikes again!" sort of way.

Typical military survivalist groups or military units who didn't received Enclave Orders who had hunkered up and stored enough supplies during the war realized the only way to make a living is what they did best during the pre-war days. Hire themselves off and betray the occasional caravan. They are pretty much the rich man's bandits. I mean Tenpenny considers killing the poor a source of entertainment. I could assume Tenpenny sponsors Littleton Associates, and since Raiders are too high/inbred to even notice such opportunities. Talon company comes and gets paid to hunt people down for sport. Of course Littleton is a mercenary contracting firm and will stay "neutral" enough to avoid any conflict of interest.

And Washington is the capital of America, people would flock there for military tech to salvage and maybe cultural artifacts to bring back to NCR. Provided if any survive the trip. One political artifact from Pre-war US could make a man very influential in the NCR. Also it has a good source of pre-war armor and tech which is probably unopened by the BoS.

Also, it has a huge amount of hospitals to loot as Arcade kindly mentioned.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

Did the game tell you that, or are you just coming up with that? Because you're just coming up with that. At no point does the game reveal in any way, shape, or form, what Talon Company is or exactly what they are doing. The wiki page on them has one footnote: A quote from a Prima guide.

Deducted logic, I tend to do that in my spare time, and it is pretty much the only way Littleton will care about such contracts. When someone like GUVMENT got poo poo tons of caps and weapons. Someone will take the contract.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011
I wished they let us bring compnanions for the DLCs. would be interesting to hear some of their opinions

Boone: Shocked to learned that Graham is not only alive but repentant to an extent. A Boone who has learned to forgive himself for Bitter Springs states that Graham was able to find redemption. A ruthless Boone will state Graham's weakness and sees his attempts to become a good man will fail.

Veronica: Horrific to learn what happened at Sierra Madre and wants to leave as soon as possible. Also quite interested in some of the technologies at Big MT and states "Well, at least we know where 95% of all science related misery came from. And that's why the Brotherhood is such a closed minded bunch."

Cassidy: "Another caravan that I travel with gets blown to hell...really why do I even bother being a trader?"

Arcade: Learns a lot about the former Legate, even more caught up with a dilema with siding with Daniel or Graham. Daniel he feels is the right thing to avoid turning the Sorrows to another Blackfoot tribe and with Graham, it hits close to his Enclave roots but can't help to think he must stop Caesar's lackeys in training from wiping out Zion.

Raul: Being the other ghoul who seen it all. He feels he is caught between two rich, obnoxious assholes at Sierra Madre.

Lily: Berserk Lily goes well with Dog, Calm Lily seeks a romantic relationship with God stating that the nightkin has gone through a lot.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Wolfsheim posted:

Yeah, Arcade has a lot of missable little dialogues. Some are mentioned on the wiki for his sidequest, others are just him commenting on stuff. A good example would be the nuclear test site south of Nipton and just over the hill from the Legion safehouse; when you actually go in the shack, he comments on pre-war nuclear testing.

I think Arcade is great in general, though. I love that he has something like ten different endings, one for each choice he makes and how it corresponds to the faction that takes over Vegas. Like, if Raul became some gunslinging hero again and the Legion take over, you'd think there'd be some conflict there.

Raul's form of justice is straight to the point: A .44 Magnum SWC hand load round to the brain of anyone breaking the law of the Legion. In case the Legate missed a spot. Raul would glady become part of the Legion if he wasn't a ghoul, if only to see some sense of good fashioned order brought to the wasteland.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Wolfsheim posted:

Dog was one of the nightkins in the Master's personal army. I don't think he really has a backstory beyond that. Just another schizophrenic nightkin.

'Bonding' his two personalities at the end does rely solely on a speech check, but if you talk God into unlocking his jail cell as well as trust him to handle the levers (going the extra step and harvesting some ghostly remains for him to snack on to keep Dog at bay) you have the option to save God instead with a much, much lower speech check (and if you confront Christine first you get the clothes that have +10 speech, and I think there's a Meeting People somewhere in the hotel). And honestly, that's still a pretty good ending; God just talks like a sadist because he's been hosed over so many times by humans. If you help him subvert Dog he trusts you pretty readily.

Dean is the only one who's rotten to the core. If you like your metaphors heavy-handed, at the end when you confront him he is bathed in red light, and he's the only character whose eyes you can never see, who's motives you can never really know, who tried to ruin a man's life not because he personally did anything to Dean, but because he tried to succeed after a previous failure. He is literally Satan. I find it hilarious that he's so loving evil that even pointing out the obvious, that killing you would be killing himself, bruises his ego so loving much that he refuses to ever forgive you for it. gently caress you Dean.

Hell Dean's only purpose to break into the Vault is just to show how he can easily overcome everything. To him, Mr House is just another Sinclair, trying to outsmart the man for the sake of satiating his own drat ego. The caps is just the icing on his cake.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Wolfsheim posted:

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they knew each other; a famous lounge singer and the de facto ruler of Vegas. Meaning House probably would have him gunned down on sight.

Dean would fit right in with the Omertas too, though. Someone should make a mod that places him in Gomorrah sipping martinis and partying with ghoul hookers post-Dead Money.

Dean would probably head to Tops trying to outdo Benny. I mean House probably has a place for two extremely bitter and cynical ghouls. While one is openly cynical and insulting the other puts the emphasis on lounge lizard. Plus Dean would make House quite a bit of caps. Being the survivor of Sierra Madre.

Also some just for fun dialogue on what will be Arcade's thoughts on Sierra Madre.

Before you go in there, I just to got to warn you, just because you settle the mental issues of every other member of the heist who at some point wanted to murder . But now got you got to deal with your own personal issues. I mean you will more than likely take down Father Elijah and get us all out but think about what Vera, by Vera I mean the corpse with that snazzy dress and not the bald girl badly scarred all over. You need to let go of that wealth in the vault when you head down there.

The gold is tempting but remember every other person who came down here before you, the nightkin, the ghoul and the assassin. You were lucky your heist companions was more interested in other things than wealth, even Dean was doing it just to prove that he can break a man's will and the gold is just icing on the cake. But knowing you, I think you are in it for the money and you will die laughing as you cradle all the gold in your hand. Well enough talk, head down there so we can all leave this wonderful resort behind us and head back to the miserable wasteland.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Wolfsheim posted:

I think this is because less than five people actually completed her ridiculous "bring me twenty vault suits, and good luck finding that poo poo" quest. This is the same number of people who:

-actually found everything on the enormous list of supplies needed to fix the Camp McCarran food processor rather than ignore it until repair was high enough to jury rig it
-got that "regain 10,000 HP using only food achievement
-took any of the perks that help reduce radiation
-found North Vegas

Well, once I found it, I put on my Ranger outfit, grabbed a cattle prod and LMG and went all Cerberus Panzer Cop on the Outer Vegas, you don't need the NCR? Well we won't need resistance, I shown them a taste of Pre-War Police Brutality where the federally mandated response to civil disobedience is A BEATING!

Also, interested in making an evil NCR character who is pretty much Moore's inspiration. What decisions I have to make with optimally everyone alive to see another Enclave rise from the ashes through the NCR?

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Pope Guilty posted:

No way, that's MINE.

Which is why you have the battle rifle. Nothing like a bit of WWII style marines delivering swift death of the bull.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Broken Knees Club posted:

Stalker didn't go far enough with the natural reclamation, although that's explained away with ~the magic of the zone~. Google the Chernobyl disaster area and you will find that it's green as gently caress after less than 30 years of no human habitation. Fallout is set centuries after most of civilization was incinerated. I think the whole association between nuclear post-apocalyptia and desert badlands has outlived its usefulness.

But honestly, I wish we'd get a more seamless world. Transitions between areas in Stalker were perfectly fine with me, but the hundreds of transitions between the overworld and some dinky shack or two room cave were just grating.

The difference is the amount of saturation and just how potent the Uranium was. Weapon Grade Uranium is meant to maximize destruction factor with lingering radiation that kills most forms of life only hampered by 50's SCIENCE!

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

I just worked with Caesar to rid the world of the NCR. Caesar's got the right idea. :smugdog:

I was the opposite, NCR Black Ops. I am the feral two headed bear no one should cross. Wish they made me a riot armor with two yaoi guai paldrons so I could wear that dreaded ranger mask which inspires the true face of Pre-War America. And it aint democracy, cold hearted capitalism where civil disobedience calls for BEATINGS!

That said, I need all of the evil NCR victory choices. I already made sure to gun down anyone loyal the legion or protest the NCR.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Bilal posted:

And this wraps around to my original concern about character progression in RPGs. Should a player who wants to use a low tier weapon, like the 9mm pistol, through the entire game have the chance to get the same DPS/combat effectiveness as a character who switches to more powerful weapons when they become available? In my opinion, character progression is a crucial part of an RPG, and there's no equipment progression if you use the same weapon from beginning to end.

The Signature Weapons mod is an extremely elegant solution and is very popular for that reason. There are a lot of players who wish to use some of the early game weapons to compliment their builds- and this way you get equipment progression without having to switch weapons.

Now, coming around to the idea of themed characters, here's what my ideal Fallout New Vegas would look like. In my ideal NV, weapon perks like Cowboy, Grunt, etc would give you additional dialogue options. When confronting Benny, for example:

(I am bad at writing dialogue)

[Cowboy] I got six bullets in this gun. Way I see it, that's one for each of ya.

[Grunt] A frag here, a frag there, and a little bit of suppression fire from my machine gun and your bodyguards will be pissin' themselves in the corner.

[Mad Bomber] I've already wired this place to blow, Benny. Any of your guards touch their guns, I click this detonator and the whole place comes crashing down on top of us.

And so on. Like this, you actually do get to play the role of a cowboy, talk like your cowboy would, as opposed to just using a cowboy gun. I don't understand how to use the GECK, but this would be a fun mod I'd like to make if I could.

[Ninja] You took the hard route, by the time you see me there would be clean gash on all your throats...

[Laser Commander/Plasma Spaz] One well placed shot and you and your guards will light up like New Vegas, for a second.

But I always make my character get equipped like a marine: A sidearm, a main weapon and a heavy weapon with a holdout melee.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Feb 23, 2012

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

CatchrNdRy posted:

The immersion of the dialogue kinda disappoints me in this game. (first time play through) The important characters are voiced well enough, the random NPCs not so much.

Let's talk about Boone when he is standing next to us! I just started rolling with Veronica, and at least she seems to have some comments regarding the places we go to.

Why do different voice actors say the same thing? It seemed a wide variety of people were really concerned that "Primm wimped out and accepted NCR rule". If you are going to have like 5 different voice actors express that, why not vary the dialogue slightly? same with all the merchants saying "Another satisfied customer".

Also, you may be a paranoid drug addled Fiend living in a windowless vault but you were raised right and are going to say "hello" and "good morning" to every stranger that waltzes on in. I took the NCR mission in Boulder City to rescue the captives from the Great Khans. As I picked through a door with guards, I was ready to fight or talk my way out of it, but was simply greeted with a bright "hello". :downs:

The psycho hasn't kicked in yet.

Also the Legion need their own version of propaganda radio to demoralize the NCR. Here is some I thought of if they had decided to explore the capital wasteland who praises the evils of the Lone Wanderer while scorning good deeds.

"This is Propago Kerberos speaking to you worthless slaves and the loyal legionaires for the daily events brought to you by Caesar himself. You will listen or you will suffer from 50 lashings for not listening to the word of our mighty leader. This is today's news."

"A condolence to the Slavers at Paradise Falls as there had been reports of a massacre which had also led to the liberation of all slaves confined in the area. Legion forces will reconstitute the slaver's camp and provide the slavers with fresh workers ready to work and serve the Legion and prospective buyers. A bounty will also be posted for one particular Lone Wanderer for such horrible actions." Complete Rescue from Paradise by killing all the slavers.

"A fine day to celebrate as several wanted fugitives were captured by the Lone Wanderer. Some may call it slavery but we consider those who were captured to be death dealers, adultresses, murderers and drug dealers. Not innocent people who did not deserve the leash on their necks. Vale, Wanderer and may you find many more to capture" Complete Strictly Business.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Garlic Wall posted:

I had one of those voice actor weird out moments when I found out Ulysses also voiced the Biological Research Station in OWB.

But Mr.Fantastic is finally useful..when fighting communism!

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011
Well, I decided to try making my own Caravan Lunch along with a Nuka Cola, guess when they make it a 30 survival item, it must be that simple to make. Just needs a vault tec lunchbox

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

And then you died eating it?

I am still very much alive, and drat it is really filling. I was already pretty stuffed eating half of the meal. The only thing that would have made my day was a couple of finger cakes.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Alouicious posted:

Because then the endings imply not everything is absolutely perfect under my clearly flawless leadership! Also a robot says some things that could be interpreted as bad (despite the project lead clearly pointing out that is not the case).

You are more of less giving the New Vegas the right to rule itself without the guy who singlehandly saved humanity throughout the series (Without RobCo, there will no PIPBOy, no pipboy means we are screwed). New Vegas was very similar to Hopeville in context, the Courier will be tasking the express with delivering everything from guns to a blackmail note to give them more caps.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

OldMemes posted:

That said, Ulysses's plan is pretty flawed and morally repunant too - wipe out several cultures and societies, killing loads of people, just because you don't want to subscribe to the existing ideologies? Was the divide really that special, so much so that he couldn't find a new bunch of like minded people to form a faction with?

Yes, Hopeville was able to turn what was an army base into something like a small independent town. An military version of New Vegas so to speak. By completing the Independent ending you have successfully created another Hopeville.

A shame you couldn't bring Arcade along to Big MT so he can introduce a lot useful fun stuff to Followers and Freeside citizen

"Here we have Salient Green, a universal green plant solvent that is much more miraculous than Agave Fruit as it can be used to produce huge quantities of food and healing materials. Note that it is not made from people like Vault 22 and thus safe for consumption. Of course, lets just hope none of the Big MT scientists is watching us and plans on turning us into their personal lab rat. Between you and me, being used like ants under a magnifying glass is not what I had in mind when I brought samples."

vyelkin posted:

The only thing I could really fault the DLC for was not letting me resolve the moral conflict with Daniel properly. Especially since I had hunted down all the logs, I really, really wanted an option to tell him "First of all, the White Legs have already wiped out New Canaan, and then followed you here. There is no reason they won't follow you again, and again, and again, unless you make a stand. And if you're going to make a stand, there's no better place than here, where you have Joshua Graham and the Courier on your side, in Zion, where the Sorrows have lived for decades, a place that was protected and kept safe by the Survivalist and is seen as a holy place. This place has abundant food, beautiful scenery, and is all-around probably a great place to live compared to the shithole that is much of the Wasteland. More importantly, it's the Sorrows' home and they deserve to be allowed to keep it. Sometimes you have to stand and fight for what's right, and what's right is not letting the White Legs take whatever they please." But instead I was left without any option to justify myself, and instead had to just tell him "I think the other guy's right" and leave it at that.

He doesn't want to clean up the mess Graham started, even though Graham has honestly admitted to his guilt and is part of the Mormons again and completely severing all ties with the Legion (I was expecting a part of him to go "I am going create a new Legion in my image, one that will leave Sallow and his tribals quaking in fear, a reminder of who created the army to conquer in the first place"). Graham's damage was done, he has created an army of tribals bent on nothing short of everyone enslaved or slaughtered and he was the reason why they were chased. If the Sorrows were chased by another tribe not because of Caesar's orders, Daniel may have considered fighting. Seeing them as primitive prospectors who have caused a lot of misery. But with the White Legs, it was Graham's fault and he was not going to be cleaning the mess for him.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 07:13 on May 24, 2012

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

OldMemes posted:

The problem with the Followers that they often refuse to budge from their ideals, even when compromise would produce the best result for everyone. For example, when the owners of the Atomic Wrangler want to work with the Followers, and you basically have to browbeat them into realising that the excess ethanol will help them,, even if the Garrets are kinda sleazy.

The Followers have no long term plans for growth - contrast that to the Mormons and thier relationship with the tribals, Daniel and Graham are really trying to bulid something.

As for House, compared to say, President Eden, he's a pretty benevolent figure. He doesn't even use Mr. New Vegas to broadcast propoganda about himself.

His plan was to rely on Bread and Circuses to keep the masses content to not clamor for anything that could threaten his rule. And even then it is only reserved for the richest subjects. The others can just simply be left at the complete mercy of the raiders.

Graham is correct when talked about how House is simply Caesar but with a different way to appeal to them. Whereas Caesar caters to the Tribes' bloodthirsty urges under one banner, House relies on the Roman way which involved Bread and Circuses to keep people in line.

perianwyr posted:

They could have just put the art assets in a new esm and then released it all to the public and said "make up a story". The result would have been preferable.

There should have been an Enclave subplot to use Zeta as the basis of getting the remaining members of the Enclave to a habitable planet. I know someone did that though but seeing Obsidian's take on it will be interesting.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 24, 2012

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Wolfsheim posted:

How is this different than the NCR, though?

It simply caters to the Patricians who are the most influential part of his society. Whereas NCR tries to feed everyone, House only intends on feeding the wealthiest people the finest foods, give them the finest whores in bed and the finest entertainment. The rest can simply be left to the vultures.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Eiba posted:

... That's not what "bread and circuses" means. It's a means of placating the plebs, not the patricians. The whole point is to prevent an uprising or riot or rebellion by making sure there aren't any hungry masses to rise up.

And House is a bit more pragmatic and a bit less ideological than you seem to think. He doesn't care who's rich or poor. He cares who's useful and who's superfluous. If you are useful, House will make you rich. If you are useless, well, that's a different story.

Being indifferent to most people is kind of bad, but what's more troubling is how House would react to organizations that get in his way. Just how do you think he'd deal with his factory workers forming a union? Probably the same way he dealt with the Brotherhood of Steel.

Well what will be the rich man's version of "bread and circuses?"? "Lobster and Whores"?

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Merry Magpie posted:

Not really.

1. Tell Boone to wait somewhere.

2. Pickpocket NCR troops for their dog tags.

3. Trade in dog tags for Legion fame.

4. Pick up Boone after getting the safehouse.

5. Have a laugh at the Legion for being stupid enough to think dog tags equate to dead NCR.

6. Kill Caesar with coin shot made from the same currency he paid you.

It will be a hell of a time to identify who died to Legion/Fiends/Kings murdering them when time comes.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

trevalyan posted:

Not to mention that the RPG immersion of Fallout 3/ Skyrim are vastly different compared to ME and DA. A voiced protagonist would only be a distraction and added expense to people who just enjoy killing things.

The pieces was in there though. Hearing Yuri Lowenthal or Laura Bailey as the courier speak will be quite fun in New Vegas.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

khwarezm posted:

Jesus, where did you get this impression? Freeside and most of the rest of outer Vegas are totally dependent on the Followers Agricultural and medical expertise as well as their charitable nature to not collapse into a pile of jet addicted whores. I can't imagine that New Vegas is alone in that regard, there are tons of lousy unstable shitholes that'd be dependent on a group like the followers in the fallout universe.
Their problem is that they simply do not have the resources to meet every (or even most) of the problems presented. Arcade mentions that the only reason hes trying to create bathtub stimpacks and the like is because they are running out of pre-war medical supplies to raid.

How about healing poultice? Granted the big problem is Caesar has tight control over the Cave Fungus which keeps proper medicine from being made. All Arcade needs to do is successfully clone cave fungus samples and set up several mushroom grow ops and they should have reliable medicine beyond stims.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Defiance Industries posted:

I think he'd have been okay with it. Like he says, "I tell them never to hurt each other but that if someone else comes along and tries to hurt them to strike back with righteous anger."

He didn't take being hosed around with lightly.

The problem is the mess came from Joshua Graham himself. If the White Legs came here by their own volition not because of a political belief but instead just came here to slaughter and kill. Then Daniel would have gladly put these primitive prospectors to death. But this was a direct result of Graham joining the legion, gets booted and coming back. Even though they had redeemed Graham, Daniel still remembers the tragedy at New Canaan and desires if they will protect the sorrows they will not put them through another war.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

GrickleGrass posted:

Well, I'd say you should definitely go with science and medicine. As for the last one I'm not too sure-- maybe survival as an extension of his inventiveness? Or maybe sneak? I'm not sure if he's charismatic enough to consider taking speech or barter, but maybe either of those?

Science and medicine should be two of them for sure, though. You should be traversing the wastes cooking up drugs and peddling any excess jet and other chems.

Cool idea for a play through, by the way.

Definitely Survival giving how he specialize in making drugs. A lot of the good stuff is linked to the Survival Skill.

Bonus points, have Boone as your companion.

"You should probably join the Khans runt, I am sure they will appreciate your kind over there."

"The Khans, no way, they will beat me up long before I get to chill with Jack..."

"Actually bro, I think you are totally uncool. You are all obsessed with making drugs for the fame, the profit and the girls...for gently caress sakes I think you are eyeballing my Diane a bit too much for my liking."

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

Broken Box posted:

You end up a very inattentive ruler of New Vegas and maintain the status quo. The game explicitly states that Vegas gets even more unstable and violent while you are in control. So while the families may still be making bank in the casinos the vast majority of the population is living in fear and squalor without access to even basic healthcare. Even Arcade, the one person pushing for an independent Vegas more than anyone thinks it didn't turn out to be such a good idea. He has a much happier ending with an NCR civilized Vegas and becoming a teacher back west if you keep him from helping at the dam. The Kings ending seems to be contradictory to what the other endings slide say though, but from their point of view that makes sense, they may have style but they're still a violent gang.

Really the biggest reason the Independent ending is bad is because it really hurts the NCR. For all their flaws they have most of the people currently living on the planet, they are civilization, they have representative government, they have cities and farms and can make new things not just scavenge. But their success is going to break their back if they can't sustain their ongoing population boom. More than just power for their cities, Lake Mead meant drinking water and irrigated farms. The biggest population left in the world is on the verge of unsustainability and an independent Vegas guarantees that fact.

Remember the last you deliver something to a place like New Vegas? You wind up creating a place worse than the Glow. This time, your package allowed you to really try you hand in building a new Hopeville.

And it was about drat time we overthrown the proverbial god of Fallout. Robert House always gave me that feeling that he was a god in the Fallout Universe, not the master, not the Enclave but it was House who gave everyone the tools required to save themselves from certain extinction.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

jpmeyer posted:

I just found this site, which looks to be the most comprehensive FONV tourist travelogue out there.

Well looking at it, it makes you wonder why Gommorah didn't had Joanna going "You got a Jimmy Hat on you? The last thing I want to see happen is another case of the Bishop affair." Given how Nevada has strict safe sex laws on the legalized prostitution industry.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

OldMemes posted:

I think Joshua is probably one of the most interesting characters in the game. He's full of contradictions - he's very violent, but he also full of compassion, has a deep respect for the tribes and Daniel.

The way I saw his character is that after returning from the Legion, he's made his peace with God, but not with himself. Keith Szarabajka does a great job with his voice, striking the right balance of "badass warrior" and "wise leader".

It's not like the Sorrows don't defend themselves - Daniel even says that they kill the White Legs often, but introducing them to the concept of total war would rob them of their peaceful ways. That's why leave is my preferred ending - the Sorrows and Dead Horses fight, but without losing their morals and princpals in the process, Joshua finds peace, and Daniel helps them rebulid. It's not like the White Legs are going to be in Zion forever - you're told that they're incapable of farming or hunting by themselves, so they'll starve after a while, and the Sorrows can return to Zion.

Didn't you blow up the only path to Zion so the Sorrows can escape?

The better question is if you told Follows Chalk to look out into the world or not.

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gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011

OldMemes posted:

I think that House's dialogue if you remove him from his tube shows his real character. There's none of the smooth businessman, just a man utterly defeated.

He sounds so heartbroken if you tell him that you're working with Ceasar.He also says that even if you didn't like him, he could have given you anything you wanted, and you could have worked together for the greater good. :smith:

And he's classed as a "good" character, karma wise.

I hope Ropekid works on the next Fallout game - it's nice to see someone who has such a good understanding and respect for the franchise and setting.

He is "good" because he was the proverbial god of the Fallout Universe. Without him, the Vault Dweller, the Lone Wander and the Chosen One and most certainly not the Courier will be able to survive the wasteland. He brought upon a cornucopia of inventions which gave you the ability to survive the wasteland. That little device on your hand allowed you to save or drat humanity.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 27, 2012

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