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Wolfsheim posted:Yeah, I love Obsidian and all but I don't think there was any conspiracy against it via Bethesda. I've talked to several people who loved Fallout 3 who just "couldn't get into New Vegas" and I think its (as I've gone into detail on before) because New Vegas is too smart for its own good, doesn't instantly gratify the player, and has more numerous and subtle choices than "save the town for free" versus "HAHA gently caress THE TOWN KILL THEM ALL." Yeah, I think New Vegas is ten times the game F3 is, and vastly more of a 'Fallout' game, but at the same time I can see people who got into the franchise with F3 being confused and put off by it. Which is ironic and depressing somehow, but understandable.
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Apr 19, 2012 19:05
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Merry Magpie posted:I am apparently the only person who wished they could pilot the robot. Well, you and Todd Howard. Apparently that was their original idea for Liberty Prime, and it ended up getting reduced in scope and cut back to what we got at some point in development.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:13
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The only thing that got to me about the karma system in New Vegas was that stupid repetitive tone and 'Karma Lost' message I got every time I exercised my God Given Right as an RPG protagonist to pick up every single item in the game world, regardless of who it belonged to, and shove it in my backpack.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:52
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I've said something like this before in several threads, but I've decided my dream game would be Obsidian getting the Skyrim engine and making, essentially, Morrowind: New Vivec. Also, I want a pony. 
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Apr 20, 2012 20:06
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balakadaka posted:I'm guessing this had at least a little to do with Oblivion scheduled to launch with the XBox 360. It was delayed of course, but since the 360 already had so many lackluster launch titles, Romans in Jurassic Park probably wasn't going to sell (as amazing as it sounds now) Psh. If dark elves and air squid in mushroom land could be a huge surprise hit on the XBOX, I don't see any reason why jungle byzantium wouldn't have been just as successful as Oblivion was. I credit it to either a failure of the will/imagination from someone higher up at Bethesda or a deliberate dumbing down.
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Apr 20, 2012 20:21
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RagingBoner posted:BTW, I'm preparing for the coming nuclear war with North Korea: Is that even enough to buy you a stimpack?  I imagine the Fallout PC wandering through the wasteland with a huge, Santa Claus style bag over his shoulder stuffed with bottle caps. He's got caps that jingle jangle jingle...
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Apr 25, 2012 20:06
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They really should have dropped the 'caps as currency' thing in New Vegas. In fact they DID drop it in Fallout 2. It should have been NCR money, Legion money, and some sort of Vegas money, presumably issued by House in some form. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to discover that they intended to do this, but 'caps as money' was something Bethesda wanted to keep as a series touchstone. Actually, as an interesting side note, I remember reading an interview along the lines that they originally had considered setting 'New Vegas' in an entirely different (unstated) city, but that Bethesda had wanted to reserve that city for themselves and it was one of the very few changes they requested. I really wonder what city that was! What really annoyed me about the bottle caps was sometimes you'd be exploring some pre-war ruin, and you'd find what was supposed to be a pre-war cache or locked container and it would have dozens or hundreds of... bottle caps. Broke my immersion every time.
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Apr 26, 2012 02:07
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rope kid posted:Yes it does. Traders from the Mojave travel the Short Loop into NCR, which means that they have to go through a few hundred miles of solid desert. Carrying enough water to travel from New Vegas to the Boneyard (or vice versa) would undercut cargo capacity significantly. Carrying enough bottle caps to do any trading would undercut cargo capacity significantly. :needs a literal wagonload of caps to buy a rifle and pair of pants: Plus by Fallout 2, seventy (?) ye ars before the game starts, California had abandoned caps and was minting gold coins. EDIT: I mean caps are fine as a goofy video game currency, but in a world where states are minting their own money, trying to justify caps with any real world logic just exacerbates their absurdity. :jams his hand into a giant sack full of jagged, rusty metal disks anytime her wants to purchase anything: Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 26, 2012 12:35
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rope kid posted:you may very well listen to the strong consortium of local merchants offering to exchange that paper note for currency backed by water. Yeah, but wouldn't the Hub issue 'Water Dollars' or something, instead of bottle caps? They don't create the caps or control them. Any jerk who raided a bottling plant in Idaho or something can come wandering in with a huge number of caps and upend the economy. Plus there are no denominations, which would make them really awkward to actually transport in large numbers or use on a day to day basis. I'd happily accept a Hub paper currency called 'caps', based off earlier days when literal caps were used. FlyingCheese posted:I don't think you realize who you're talking to. Yeah, I do. Seriously, I'm perfectly 100% happy with caps as a goofy video game conceit. But when you start introducing real currencies, talking about fiat money, and discussing ease of transport for long distance merchants (i.e. taking things seriously), I stand by bottle caps being increasingly and unsustainably absurd. EDIT: Tetanus Bucks, the currency that kills you. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Apr 26, 2012 |
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Apr 26, 2012 19:20
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rope kid posted:They certainly try! They also used (and backed) bottle caps previously, which is something that old timers remember. It's true that having other denominations would make bottle caps a more efficient currency, but plenty of inefficient denominational standards stay in use for a long time without being optimized. Yeah, but there's a reason no one uses pennies anymore. There's inefficient and then there is completely implausibly inefficient. The lack of denominations makes it so inefficient as to offend common sense. Looking at the Gun Runner inventory there's at least a couple(?) hundred thousand plus worth of value in caps. I can easily see a decent sized, heavily guarded caravan moving a million caps worth of goods. How do these transactions take place? Do they literally sit out there in the radioactive California sun counting out 753,000 physical bottle caps? Do they somehow do it by weight? I can see tribals or a tiny, isolated town like Shady Sands using small numbers of bottle caps as a local exchange mechanism, but the moment you start dealing with any large number of caps it becomes absurd. As soon as any large number of caps began being exchanged over long distances some form of cap scrip would spring up: THE BANK OF VAULT CITY WILL EXCHANGE FOR THE BEARER OF THIS NOTE THE SUM OF 1000 BOTTLE CAPS. Which in short order would become defacto currency. How does the Hub 'back' caps? Can you exchange a certain number of caps for a standard measure of water? How do they account for the fact that they have no control over the number of caps in circulation and any one can come in from outside the area with a huge stock of caps and screw everything up? Some form of Water Bucks (1 W$ = 1oz of water at any Hub trading post) seems more plausible to me. rope kid posted:There isn't an definable difference between a "real" or "imaginary" currency. If people treat an object as a store of value/medium of exchange, it's currency. Yeah. Sure. I realize that. People could use head sized rocks as currency, and as long as everyone agreed they had value it would be currency. They don't do this because head sized rocks would make awful currency. I stand by my assertion that having to deal with hundreds or thousands of jagged, rusty, tetanus laced metal discs for regular every day transactions would be equally awful. Ultimately though, it's funny the things that bother you or take you out of the universe. Fighting giant roboscorpions with my atom powered punchy fist? Okay! The logistics of the large scale use of bottlecaps as currency? Ugh... :strokes neckbeard, posts picard emoticon: It's always the little poo poo that gets me. Like you're in some scientific facility that has supposedly been abandoned for centuries and there's three nightstalkers locked in a little closet sized chainlink enclosure, behind a computer locked door, and all I can think is "How did they get there? What have they been eating? Nightstalkers can't operate doors. Who's feeding them? This doesn't make any sense."
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Apr 27, 2012 03:10
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rope kid posted:Hub merchants like the Crimson Caravan hire people like the Courier to deal with it. Heh. Missed that quest. I didn't end up doing any quests for them, really. That's clever. I still don't buy physical caps staying in circulation long. 50 cap note? Sure. Bag full of rusty tetanus bucks? Not so much. I could see House issuing Mojave cap scrip or maybe even each casino issuing their own, with physical caps only being used for the smallest transactions. I'm willing to concede the point though.  Pope Guilty posted:If it makes you guys feel any better when my family visited New York a few years back, my brother and walked around comparing Battery Park and Liberty Island to their renderings in Deus Ex. Did this on my honeymoon. "Hey, babe, mind walking a few more blocks south so I can go on a video game pilgrimage?"  Pope Guilty posted:My only complaint about currencies in New Vegas is the relative paucity of in-game sources for them. All vendors have caps; only a handful have faction currency. Yeah, you could find it on dead npcs, but there was very little lying around in the game world compared to caps or pre-war currency. In fact, I'm not sure I can specifically remember running into the 3Dmodel for the NCR currency floating around in the world. I'm sure it must have been around though.
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Apr 27, 2012 13:32
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Preem Palver posted:Uh... you mean like the casino chips you can trade for caps? I know they issue chips for internal casino use only. I meant issue for wider scale use. Chips would have made a hell of a lot better currency then caps. Honestly, I'm not even hung up on the cap thing. I never considered it very much until it came up in the thread here, and I thought it was an interesting thing to talk about.
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Apr 27, 2012 20:08
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that you're so hung up on the cap issue when you don't pay enough attention to the game to notice that an obviously active research facility is active or that the casinos do issue their own currency.
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Niggard of Oz posted:Sooo, the peeps in Fallout land aren't just using bottle caps because an anthropomorphic millionaire duck once flew over in his airplane and decided to litter after having a bottle of pop? I'm pretty sure they said a single Elvis song would have cost more then the rest of the music licensing put together. Personally, I don't think more upbeat, faster paced songs would fit the mood of Fallout very well. I didn't like the few they included in F3. I thought they did a really good job picking the music for New Vegas.
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Apr 28, 2012 03:16
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Nucular Carmul posted:If you're trying to say blasting the radio when that Butcher Pete song was on and going upside some ghoul's head with a cleaver is a bad thing, I'm going to try to say you have poor taste in music and other things, and your entire decision making process may be suspect as well. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, then.  There's something about that song in particular that I find... intensely irritating. In fact one of the first things I did with F3 was replace that .mp3 with a duplicate of one of the other ones so I would never have to listen to it again!
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Apr 28, 2012 04:39
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Why do you hate America, ropekid? Also, I am certainly am not foolish enough to think that bottle caps don't exist.Orange Crush and Pepsi cola caps are two of my favs.But your comparing a rusty bottle cap to a paper currency.Why are bottle caps so relevant and front 'n center.It seems unnecessary to me
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Apr 29, 2012 01:41
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Alouicious posted:For fucks sake, why do you care so much? Ropekid has explained it several times in this thread. Also, use your spacebar after full-stops. MikeGolf posted:I certainly am not foolish enough to think that homosexual's don't exist.Veronica and Arcades stories are two of my favs.But your comparing a 70/100 ratio to 10-15/100 ratio.Why is there sexuality so relevant and front 'n center.It seems unnecessary to me Ruin my joke, why don't you? 
Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Apr 29, 2012 |
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Apr 29, 2012 01:51
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Now I'm imagining an Obsidian kickstarter where they have a video of some of the tabletop sessions, Double Fine documentary style.
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Apr 29, 2012 02:26
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I did think it was borderline criminal that they didn't have some sort of interesting set piece or sequence involving the White House. Nope, it's just a crater. There should have been a shoot out in the Oval Office, or at the very least, let your character sit at the President's desk.
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May 2, 2012 05:43
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Arrath posted:Right, by murdering him and his gang in Nipton and taking their poo poo. That dude and his thugs have never made it out of Nipton in any of my playthroughs. Killin' Legion all day every day.
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May 9, 2012 13:28
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SRM posted:Vulpes hasn't survived any of my playthroughs whatsoever. Even on my Legion-loyal run, he died when I opened the door to the Lucky 38 Suite to find him standing there in front of me and my .44 in hand. I shot him out of reflex, honest. Haha. Yeah, I always kill that random generic legion dude they send to invite you to Caesar's camp after the Lucky 38. By that point in the game I've killed dozens of legion guys, wiped out their Cottonwood Cove encampment, and freed some slaves. So, some poor schmuck comes over and says Caesar wants to kiss and make up? POW. I also find it amusing that everyone else in the Strip, from NCR troopers, to strippers, to Securitrons, just shrugs and ignores it. It was a legion guy. He clearly deserved it.
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May 9, 2012 18:26
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Eiba posted:The NCR is the only choice I can reasonably support, because they are humanists. That's what's behind their national ideology. They're deeply imperfect humanists, in many ways dominated by the plutocratic interests of the Brahmin Barons, and the personal ambition of demagogues, but at least they've got a facade of humanism. That matters. They may commit atrocities, as in Bitter Springs, but they're the only faction that would even feel bad about doing that. House would shrug indifferently, and Caesar would be proud of it. That shame- that idealism, even if it's not fully realized- is what makes the NCR the best choice for humanity. But... but... but... ~TAXES~  /New_Vegas_Moral_Ambiguity
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May 9, 2012 20:28
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DemonNick posted:It's not just taxes. It's been a while since I did a legion play through but the NCR quests are a lot more bloodthirsty. Oh, I know, it's just a funny thing that comes up several times. Ending Slide posted:After the Battle for Hoover Dam, the little town of SETTLEMENT X experiences a period of peace and stability under the NCR. But all is not well... For although you saved them from radioactive death mutants and cosplaying Roman rape gangs, they now suffer under the dark cloud of ~BURDENSOME TAXES~. 
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May 10, 2012 01:16
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Yeah, trusting Yes Man in any way for any time is utterly silly. You could never justify it in 'real life'. :player leaves Yes Man in charge of the 38 and securitron army and farts off to wander around the desert for weeks on end: First off, House and the casino families must have some sort of line of communication. I hope none of them call up and get Yes Man on the line, because if they do they run Vegas now. Also, everyone knows the courier and his/her buddies are going in and out of Lucky 38 constantly. Also, there have been disturbing rumors about House. I sure hope no treasure hunters or opportunists manage to get into the casino and meet up with Yes Man while you're loving around the Mojave, because if they do, they run Vegas now. I mean, I liked Yes Man, he was a really funny character, but getting 'assertive programming' at the end is waaaaaaaaaay too late.
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May 10, 2012 01:38
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Defiance Industries posted:Wouldn't the Securitrons take out anybody who tried to get in the Lucky 38 without authorization though? Just cause its open to YOU, doesn't mean anyone can just come and go. That's why the place stays empty. That's the idea, yeah. But, now that the 38 is publicly known to be entered by someone, you're pretty much gambling your life and the future of the Mojave on nobody else being competent enough to sneak or fight their way to a point where they could (without knowing) get in touch with Yes Man, who will promptly have the securitrons stand down and serve his new 'owner', while explaining all your secrets.
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May 10, 2012 02:42
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redmercer posted:That might be the canon explanation, but I'd like to have Dave Foley come back all SHODAN and poo poo If they'd been able to do Post-Hoover play or a full-fledged expansion pack (instead of DLC) I would have liked to see an sequence like this, where if you'd taken the Yes Man ending he'd go all Shodan and you'd have to assault the 38 (or sneak in, or hack the gibson, or...) in order to regain control of the securitrons.
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May 10, 2012 05:14
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Zore posted:Edit: Note I'm not defending or supporting the NCR here, just calling out the Legion for being so ridiculously evil and nearly indefensible. I think that's part of the real issue. The NCR is, fairly, probably a fairly lovely place in a lot of ways, but the alternatives are so awful they come off looking pretty good.
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May 10, 2012 16:43
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Leinadi posted:I think the biggest shame of all is that a lot of people just play roughly the same each time, based on their own emotions and views. I mean, I think the Legion could've been better portrayed, absolutely. But even so, it's still fun to create a character that would support them. Especially if you go all out anti-NCR. I've tried. Nearly every game with an evil option I've tried playing that way. I. Can. Not. Do. It. It sucks all the fun out of the game. I'll come up with a cool concept for a bad guy character and start playing, but almost immediately find I have to force myself to click the 'evil' dialogue options. The moment some innocent NPC starts sounding anguished or suffering because of my playing an rear end in a top hat character I feel repulsed and turned off. Every attempt at an evil playthrough has ended after an hour or two. I can't even play through the GTA games because I have such a strong distaste for playing a 'villain'. I force myself through the first few missions, download a mod that unlocks the other islands, and just muck around in free-roam. I did manage to get through Saints Row 2 & 3, but I think that's only because they're so cartoonishly silly and over the top. Gradually, I've come to realize that the only reason I wanted to do evil playthroughs in the first place was because I was curious about missed content and wanted a different style replay. But I've sort of come to realize that it doesn't push any buttons for me, it's not fun in any way, and I've pretty much given up on even attempting it. I've just accepted that there is content and quests I'll never see. Leinadi posted:And some options are just fun, plain ol' dick-moves, like selling Arcade to Caesar. See I get this on an intellectual level, but on an emotional level all I feel is a twist of revulsion. Even a video game, betraying someone and selling them into slavery strikes me as being about as fun or having about as much entertainment value as playing Auschwitz Oven Commander: The Game. It's funny, because I absolutely defend and support there being evil choices in games like this. Even really evil choices. But I'm always slightly startled that any actually does them, and slightly concerned that anyone might enjoy them. I may just be an irredeemable softie, though. I can't even kill bugs. Even wasps and hornets I have to gently catch in a cup and let go outside.
Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 03:44 on May 11, 2012 |
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May 11, 2012 03:42
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Throckwoddle posted:You can actually meet the female Ranger they took if you do the male-only Legion arena fights. She's been sitting around in the arena punching centurions to death and has everybody cowed. There's no actual way to help her out though, which is kind of odd. She simply doesn't exist unless you select the "gently caress YEAH I WANT TO BUTCHER SLAVES" option. Yeah, this was one of the only things that really irritated me about New Vegas. There were slaves I couldn't free. It really, really sucked to wipe out the Fort and yet not be able to rescue any of the slaves there. I was infuriating to have a little girl locked in a pen, kill all her captors, but not be able to rescue her. Was there some quest you could find out in the world that would let you do this?
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May 11, 2012 13:29
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Saoshyant posted:Nope. It's the kind of polished detail missing in New Vegas and there's a quite a few like these, but there's also so much you can implement with the deadline available. All I want to do is toss her over my shoulder and find her a nice adoptive family back in Goodsprings or something. Not being able to rescue her reminds me of that frigging gnome island quest from Arcanum. Except it feels buggy and half assed instead of just irritatingly incomplete. So. Mad. Best moment in the Fallout series is always rolling into Metzgers, incinerating all those fuckers and freeing the slaves.
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May 11, 2012 13:43
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It did strike me that a large part of the urge to play morally in a video game comes from how immersive it is. I have no problem pouring bioterminators down on the Psilon homeworld in Master of Orion, or nuking Ghandi in civ. Running people over in GTA has all the moral weight of hitting a traffic cone. But RPGs are a whole different story, and the better made the RPG, the more choices it has, the more immersive it is, the more I feel driven to play RPG Jesus.  WHY YES MA'AM, I'D LOVE TO RESCUE YOUR KITTEN, WHISKERS, FROM THE BLACK TOMB OF FORBIDDEN FATE!! JUST MARK IT ON MY MAP AND I'LL BE ON MY WAY! NO, NO NEED TO REWARD ME! IT'S MY PLEASURE TO HELP OUT!
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May 11, 2012 15:10
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Alternately, you could just gently caress Caesar up. That fucker has it coming. Then you could high five Arcade over Caesar's corpse, free some slaves, and stroll off into the sunset with a nice, crisp Sarsaparilla.
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May 11, 2012 23:38
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I've actually considered doing a kill everyone playthrough, although I don't know that I'll ever go through with it. (Easier if you don't talk to anyone ). If I did I would totally go melee, because it's crazy overpowered and you don't have to fuss about ammo.
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May 12, 2012 00:03
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It's really preaty simple. FO3 is an Elder Scrolls game set in the Fallout universe. If you approach it in that light, it's a perfectly good game. New Vegas is an ~actual~ Fallout game. Fallout 4 will be Skyrim set in the Fallout universe. Fun, but simultaneously so much less then a Fallout game ought to be.
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May 13, 2012 21:08
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thehumandignity posted:Just because this is a Fallout thread doesn't mean you can poo poo on The Elder Scrolls like that. Man, I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Arena. I had to hide the box sleeve so my mom didn't see the scantily clad blonde 'warrior' on the cover. I spent all my lunch funds for my High School class trip to D.C. in 1996 buying Daggerfall (and nursed a pepperoni stick and crackers for the rest of the weekend). My forbidden love for Morrowind is illegal in several southern states. I love the Elder Scrolls*, but it's a fundementally different sort of RPG than Fallout. * gently caress the way they poo poo all over their own universe/lore in 
Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 02:22 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 02:20
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El Disco posted:This is from waaaaaay back but here you go. Added for all future playthroughs. Thanks!
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May 18, 2012 02:44
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Isn't Caravan 'fixed' in one of the latest patches? It was broken on release, if I remember correctly, the AI couldn't play the game right, so I stopped playing as it was obviously cheating to mop up the brain-damaged AI. In my latest replay I haven't touched it. Don't really miss it.  As far as RPG card games go, it was no Arcomage, let's just say that.
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May 23, 2012 02:18
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OldMemes posted:House might be a bit of a dick, but his plan to rebulid the manufacturing industry would bring alot of money, jobs and other resources into Freeside, and he even says he has no interest in meddling with people's personal freedoms and choices, so I don't get why the Followers seem to dislike him so much? Surely they have similar goals, even if House is more ruthless in his methods? An independant Vegas seems nice, but there's no long term grow, and House isn't looking to control people anyway. Well, that's what he says anyway. Maybe the Followers just find it hard to trust their future to an eccentric, frozen zombie with an army of ruthless, killer robots.
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May 23, 2012 02:43
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Wolfsheim posted:Oh, didn't you know? It was the aliens from Mothership Zeta I like to think that at Obsidian HQ they said as many nasty things about the concept of that DLC as we did. I'm operating under the assumption that if I don't install it, it's not canon.
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May 24, 2012 02:16
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ZRM posted:The mention you're wanting, I think, is where she talks about a chapter either having, or nearly having, a Civil War, referring to the Eastern BoS and the Brotherhood Outcasts. I doubt Fallout 4 will go back to the Mojave or the west coast. I'm putting my money on New York City or Boston for 4.
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Jun 6, 2012 18:12
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Kassad posted:There's still things like ruined/boarded up houses and all the abandoned cars and trucks on the road to the Mojave Outpost. It's a bit surprising that no one picked those clean for wood and metal in 200 years. Yeah, I guess we just have to accept that due to the nature of the game/engine (Elder Scrolls) we're playing in the Mojave Theme Park. The huge amount of unlooted areas and running power after 200 years just has to be chalked up to video game logic. 'Ideally' I'd like to see an open world Fallout game built a little bit more like the Stalker world is, where buildings are open to explore without loading screens, but are largely empty shells that are fully looted, instead of being treasure dungeons. Of course, I'd like to see the game built around a whole bunch of smaller zones closer in size to the DLC zones that are linked on a Fallout 1/2 style world map. Then areas could be built to be more realistically scaled and distinct without trying to jam everything onto a single 'Theme Park' style map. Obviously that was never in the cards for New Vegas, and the fully open world has a lot of bonuses, but honestly I wish the 'new' Fallout franchise could be moved a little bit further away from being 'Elder Scrolls with guns'. Not gonna happen, but y'know... \/ \/(It's funny and kinda sad to read Chris Avellone's twitter, as he constantly has to inform hopeful fans that -no-, Obsidian has nothing at all to do with Fallout 4, and everything is in Bethesda's hands. )
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Jun 7, 2012 21:54
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