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Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


GoGoGadgetChris posted:

A felon selling a cop to a gun.

I hope they put that monster away for a long time.

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Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


GoGoGadgetChris posted:

As a felon. A felon selling a cop to a gun.

That is indeed unusual.

Hazborgufen
Apr 11, 2005


What about the boogeyman I see posted every so often about the guy who had a dresser with an AR in a pistol configuration in one drawer and a stock in a different drawer?

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1211612.html

I'm sure there were other circumstances that led to him getting searched and charged. And it was 1999, so full on AWB fever at that point. But still, it's precedent right?

I wonder what ever happened to that guy now that AR pistols are so common place.

DakianDelomast
Mar 5, 2003


Yeah he wanted to dismiss one charge to get his sentence reduced or retried. Note he had an illegal machine gun and stolen guns. Again, don't be a criminal and you don't have to worry about constructive possession.

Tremblay
Oct 8, 2002
More dog whistles than a Petco

Hazborgufen posted:

What about the boogeyman I see posted every so often about the guy who had a dresser with an AR in a pistol configuration in one drawer and a stock in a different drawer?

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1211612.html

I'm sure there were other circumstances that led to him getting searched and charged. And it was 1999, so full on AWB fever at that point. But still, it's precedent right?

I wonder what ever happened to that guy now that AR pistols are so common place.

What Dakian said.

With ARs being so modular, and logic being used in that finding anyone who possesses both an AR pistol, and rifle could be found guilty.

"You see it's just like Kent, except instead of a 2 step process. It is now a 3 step process."

11th Circuit posted:


Despite Kent's claim, the evidence did not suggest that he had ever removed any of the component parts from the short-barreled upper receiver unit.   Rather, the evidence showed that the short-barreled upper receiver unit was found intact, as one complete unit.4  The short-barreled upper receiver unit included an upper receiver assembly, a rifle barrel, a flash suppressor, forward and rear sights, a sling, a scope with batteries to activate the light in the scope, a gas tube, a handguard assembly, a bolt and bolt carrier-all welded or otherwise fastened together as a single, active upper receiver unit.

Although the guy even had a freaking scope mounted on the upper.

I do not in any way really agree with the concept of CP, but we are hosed as it is for now not going anywhere.

Drav
Jul 23, 2002

We've come a long way since that day, and we will never look back at the faded silhouette.

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

It's worth pointing out that this man, Jesus Orlando Amador of Lee County, had been arrested 3 times for counterfeit and grand theft, and was literally a fugitive from justice with an outstanding warrant when he met up with the cop to sell his gun. As a felon. A felon selling a cop to a gun.

He was released 2 days later after the Constructive Possession charges were dropped. Literally a wanted felon sold a gun to a cop and they couldn't make the CP charges stick.

You REALLY don't have to keep your stock at a buddy's house.

This is quite illustrative.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


https://www.silencershop.com/atf-form-1.html

Silencershop is doing form 1's now

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004




I mean I guess if someone's never done a form 1 before and they like lighting money on fire, then it sounds like a good deal. But really it's pretty simple and paying them $35 to email a form 1 PDF and then do a once-over of the form after it's filled out is pretty dumb IMO.

DakianDelomast
Mar 5, 2003


Craptacular posted:

I mean I guess if someone's never done a form 1 before and they like lighting money on fire, then it sounds like a good deal. But really it's pretty simple and paying them $35 to email a form 1 PDF and then do a once-over of the form after it's filled out is pretty dumb IMO.

After having to drive an hour away to a different state to get fingerprinted I'd strongly consider this option over the headache I had for a F4.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Craptacular posted:

I mean I guess if someone's never done a form 1 before and they like lighting money on fire, then it sounds like a good deal. But really it's pretty simple and paying them $35 to email a form 1 PDF and then do a once-over of the form after it's filled out is pretty dumb IMO.

Also lets you use their kiosks for prints and photos.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Which could be almost $35 of stuff truth be told if the kiosk is free. I've had free fingerprints and I've paid $15-20, and Walgreens passport photos are $10 or so. Then again not sure how you can use a kiosk remotely but maybe I'm missing something.

Also technically you can roll your own prints from free cards from the ATF's website and take a digital photo and print it and get all your stuff done for "free".

mischief
Jun 3, 2003


If I have fingerprint cards can I print myself or does it have to be someone "certified" to do it? I've got a stack of the cards but thought it needed someone fancy to do the printing.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


You can fingerprint yourself.

Also for cheap portrait photos, just use photoshop or GIMP to make them the right size on a white 4x6 background and have CVS/Walgreens/wherever print it as a regular photo print for like 70 cents or whatever. You can fit 2 per print.

wkarma
Jul 16, 2010


Sten Freak posted:

Which could be almost $35 of stuff truth be told if the kiosk is free. I've had free fingerprints and I've paid $15-20, and Walgreens passport photos are $10 or so. Then again not sure how you can use a kiosk remotely but maybe I'm missing something.

Also technically you can roll your own prints from free cards from the ATF's website and take a digital photo and print it and get all your stuff done for "free".

The idea is that once you have entered your trust details (if applicable), done your prints and added your photo through the kiosk, future submissions are as easy as clicking a button and having it auto-populate your info. Also nice for trusts with multiple responsible parties.

Is it worth 35 bucks? If prints are a big inconvenience (long wait, lots of resp people, etc) it gets close pretty quickly.

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


I can see paying $35 for the convenience, but not the $50 it's marked down from.

Let's just be honest, if we truly cared about our financial well being we wouldn't be buying guns and suppressors all willy nilly.

e: oh $40, yeah that's still fine.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009



Considering people are buying $600 and up silencers, $99 mounts, and shooting 20 to 99 cents a round ammo, $35 probably shouldn't be the deciding factor. More importantly goons are probably not their target audience...

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Ropes4u posted:

Considering people are buying $600 and up silencers, $99 mounts, and shooting 20 to 99 cents a round ammo, $35 probably shouldn't be the deciding factor. More importantly goons are probably not their target audience...

I would pay uncle sam $50 if it put my forms on top of the pile and that all subsequent forms would automatically be approved upon receipt as long as my record remained clean.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Yeah time is money. Don't know how my post came off but I really was saying it could be worth it. As I've mentioned I got fingerprinted by a firm here that stores prints and will mail cards with the prints for like 15. Worth every penny.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009



Fog Tripper posted:

I would pay uncle sam $50 if it put my forms on top of the pile and that all subsequent forms would automatically be approved upon receipt as long as my record remained clean.

The wait is stupid they should be mitigated through the same process as a background check for a firearm, better yet approve the HPA...

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Ropes4u posted:

The wait is stupid they should be mitigated through the same process as a background check for a firearm, better yet approve the HPA...

Well yeah

Hazborgufen
Apr 11, 2005


Do your local police do fingerprinting for free/cheap? Before 41p came through I had a lot of contact with my police department trying to convince them to sign. I live in a suburb just outside of Chicago so the police wanted to be extra sure everything was legit. They called the ATF, the state police, spoke with the municipal attorney and who knows who else over the course of 3 months. The cops were super nice the whole time and gave regular updates but our laws are just really confusing.

Then I asked my state's NRA-ILA lobbyist if he could help and within a week I got a call saying my Form 1 was signed and ready for pickup. I asked about prints and they told me it was a free service that I could have done when I picked up the form.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Hazborgufen posted:

Do your local police do fingerprinting for free/cheap? Before 41p came through I had a lot of contact with my police department trying to convince them to sign. I live in a suburb just outside of Chicago so the police wanted to be extra sure everything was legit. They called the ATF, the state police, spoke with the municipal attorney and who knows who else over the course of 3 months. The cops were super nice the whole time and gave regular updates but our laws are just really confusing.

Then I asked my state's NRA-ILA lobbyist if he could help and within a week I got a call saying my Form 1 was signed and ready for pickup. I asked about prints and they told me it was a free service that I could have done when I picked up the form.
I've done them by a PD and Sheriff in N Florida.

The PD prints were $15 or $20. The Sheriff printed me, sent an evidence tech in with a fancy polaroid and took photos for the form too (digital photos were in their infancy then) , all for free. They basically prepared the form like they were my dealer. He was obviously super NFA friendly in a gun friendly area.

Basically it's all over the map. Calling first and asking a generic question if they charge for fingerprints would be a good idea.

I didn't even check with Denver PD after finding a local service that prints and stores them electronically and ships cards for a small fee.

Tremblay
Oct 8, 2002
More dog whistles than a Petco

Hazborgufen posted:

Do your local police do fingerprinting for free/cheap? Before 41p came through I had a lot of contact with my police department trying to convince them to sign. I live in a suburb just outside of Chicago so the police wanted to be extra sure everything was legit. They called the ATF, the state police, spoke with the municipal attorney and who knows who else over the course of 3 months. The cops were super nice the whole time and gave regular updates but our laws are just really confusing.

Then I asked my state's NRA-ILA lobbyist if he could help and within a week I got a call saying my Form 1 was signed and ready for pickup. I asked about prints and they told me it was a free service that I could have done when I picked up the form.

The PD in my town will do it for free, but it's difficult to get an appt. I think there are only 2 days a month you can go in.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



The local constable's office will take electronic prints for $10. I like not having ink-stained fingers.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Mine does it for free basically whenever I want. Super spoiled. My last sheriff's office did it 2 days a week for like 2 hours each day and charged $30.

mischief
Jun 3, 2003


My last Form 4 pre-craziness just got approved yesterday, waiting to hear from the gun store. Took almost eleven months...

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


I'm moving to Arizona in September, so how do I not turn into a felon when I take my SBRs and suppressors on the road? Do I need to file for 5320(s)? How/when do I notify of change of residence? What other pertinent stuff do I need to know/prepare for?

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

You file the form and get the approved one back before you move to a new state. I seem to recall you only had to do it for certain NFA stuff like MGs but that changed. I'd just put all NFA items on it.

You put the address where you are moving to on the form. Maybe it's your new apartment, maybe it's the house of a friend where you are going to stay while you look for a new place.

Once you're in state you have no legal obligation to tell the ATF where your stuff ended up. As long as you get an approved form for the interstate move you're done unless you want to update the ATF.

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Bummey posted:

I'm moving to Arizona in September, so how do I not turn into a felon when I take my SBRs and suppressors on the road? Do I need to file for 5320(s)? How/when do I notify of change of residence? What other pertinent stuff do I need to know/prepare for?

IIRC, Suppressors are OK to travel interstate as-is, but SBRs will need a form. Shot barrels are the devil, you see.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Sten Freak posted:

I seem to recall you only had to do it for certain NFA stuff like MGs but that changed. I'd just put all NFA items on it.

It hasn't changed. Everything but silencers and AOWs requires an approved 5320.20, and the ATF will approve 5320.20's for those too, if you submit them. A 5320.20 doesn't take as much time to be approved as a form 1 or form 4, but expect at least a month. The 5320.20 is used for both temporary and permanent interstate moves, it just depends on which box you check on the form.

Craptacular fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 28, 2017

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Craptacular posted:

It hasn't changed. Everything but silencers and AOWs requires an approved 5320.20, and the ATF will approve 5320.20's for those too, if you submit them. A 5320.20 doesn't take as much time to be approved as a form 1 or form 4, but expect at least a month.

It would be ultra cool if a form could be filed once so you can use it in whatever states you file it for indefinitely.


That would be logic however.
Gotta keep track of those short lengths of tube.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Ostensibly they're checking that the gun is legal in your destination state.

Loserslug
Mar 8, 2008


I'm moving in a few weeks, but I also want in on some sweet can action. If I file now, does my address change of 3 whole blocks in a month matter? I live in Washington, if it matters.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


Sten Freak posted:

You file the form and get the approved one back before you move to a new state. I seem to recall you only had to do it for certain NFA stuff like MGs but that changed. I'd just put all NFA items on it.

You put the address where you are moving to on the form. Maybe it's your new apartment, maybe it's the house of a friend where you are going to stay while you look for a new place.

Once you're in state you have no legal obligation to tell the ATF where your stuff ended up. As long as you get an approved form for the interstate move you're done unless you want to update the ATF.

Craptacular posted:

It hasn't changed. Everything but silencers and AOWs requires an approved 5320.20, and the ATF will approve 5320.20's for those too, if you submit them. A 5320.20 doesn't take as much time to be approved as a form 1 or form 4, but expect at least a month. The 5320.20 is used for both temporary and permanent interstate moves, it just depends on which box you check on the form.

Cool. Thanks. Aaaaand eforms are down. Of course. I've got a few months left but I'll get those forms filed asap.

Craptacular posted:

Ostensibly they're checking that the gun is legal in your destination state.


but not suppressors for whatever reason. vv

Snowman Crossing
Dec 4, 2009



Bummey posted:

I'm moving to Arizona in September, so how do I not turn into a felon when I take my SBRs and suppressors on the road? Do I need to file for 5320(s)? How/when do I notify of change of residence? What other pertinent stuff do I need to know/prepare for?

ur suppressors r going 2 melt

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Craptacular posted:

Ostensibly they're checking that the gun is legal in your destination state.

That's fine. But doesn't the form need to be filed each time you visit?

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


Bummey posted:

Cool. Thanks. Aaaaand eforms are down. Of course. I've got a few months left but I'll get those forms filed asap.

And on the third day, the ATF rested. (It's always down on Wednesdays)

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


Doctor Grape Ape posted:

And on the third day, the ATF rested. (It's always down on Wednesdays)

and on the days it's not down for scheduled maintenance, it's down anyways because it's a poo poo rear end website.

ugh, is it not an eform?

Bummey fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jun 28, 2017

Tremblay
Oct 8, 2002
More dog whistles than a Petco

Fog Tripper posted:

That's fine. But doesn't the form need to be filed each time you visit?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/application-transport-interstate-or-temporarily-export-certain-national-firearms/download

You set a date range, or declare it as a permanent move. For a date range I think that you can specify a 12 month range. So if you are going to and from the same place, you'd submit one form for the entire year.

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Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Tremblay posted:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/application-transport-interstate-or-temporarily-export-certain-national-firearms/download

You set a date range, or declare it as a permanent move. For a date range I think that you can specify a 12 month range. So if you are going to and from the same place, you'd submit one form for the entire year.

I travel back and forth to visit my home town every couple years. Usually on the spur of the moment. Filing a form each time would suck, and serve no purpose. There should be nfa reciprocity just like ccw.

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