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Jetpack Postman
Jun 30, 2011


KezzKezzan posted:

There are at least four different spears that I've seen so far, with there being possibly more. The animations don't seem to be changed much, though.

Not true. They changed animations for at least two big weapon series that I can think of off the top of my head: 1-handed Halberd attacks are a simple spear-like thrust, rather than those really clumsy swings. 1-handed Katanas now attack with a vertical swipe rather than a horizontal one. Spears are mostly unchanged, though.

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raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless


Could someone please spoil me on what exactly the weapon is that you get if you have the master key in the tutorial? What sort of weapon it is, how much damage it does, what stats it requires, length of time until alternatives open up, etc.

Jetpack Postman posted:

Not true. They changed animations for at least two big weapon series that I can think of off the top of my head: 1-handed Halberd attacks are a simple spear-like thrust, rather than those really clumsy swings. 1-handed Katanas now attack with a vertical swipe rather than a horizontal one. Spears are mostly unchanged, though.

Best two changes they could have possibly made. Please tell me they slowed down the two handed halberd attacks considerably as well (that's the third).

Funkmaster General
Sep 13, 2008

Hey, man, I distinctly remember this being an episode of Spongebob.



I've ran into a situation where I don't have $60 lying around, and I refuse to not get this on release date, so I think I may be resorting to trading in, which I absolutely hate to do.

Does anyone here have enough experience to tell me what sort of deals I should be looking for/places to trade in? I don't have a lot of recent releases. I think the newest game I own is LA Noire... maybe Brink (did that come out after Noire?), but that tanked and I don't expect more than $5 in trade for that...

Would I have better luck at Vintage Stock than someplace like Gamestop? I don't know how much they tend to pay. I know Gamestop blows for tradeins, but they do have promotions when trading in toward preorders and etc.

Popcorn
May 25, 2004

You're both fuckin' banned!

So I'm playing Demon's Souls for the first time and I just killed the first boss. I don't mean to pick a fight, but so far I'm not getting the appeal. The difficulty isn't turning me off, I just find it boring. It seems monotonous and hollow, and sort of confusing (I'm having to ask my friend how everything works constantly). Is it just a really slow burner, or is this game not for me? Going back to it feels like a chore right now.

I have a friend who tells me I'm still learning the ropes, but it feels like ideally learning the ropes should be fun. It is in Valve games.

fivetwo
Jun 19, 2009


Popcorn posted:

So I'm playing Demon's Souls for the first time and I just killed the first boss. I don't mean to pick a fight, but so far I'm not getting the appeal. The difficulty isn't turning me off, I just find it boring. It seems monotonous and hollow, and sort of confusing (I'm having to ask my friend how everything works constantly). Is it just a really slow burner, or is this game not for me? Going back to it feels like a chore right now.

I have a friend who tells me I'm still learning the ropes, but it feels like ideally learning the ropes should be fun. It is in Valve games.

gently caress you, learn2die noob.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


uhhhhhhhhhhhh alright

Polo-Rican
Jul 3, 2004

granny smith apples -
the best apples


I didn't really enjoy Demon's Souls at all my first time through 1-1... but immediately after that I began to like it more and more. Keep going- you'll see.

Mighty Dicktron
Sep 1, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.


Jetpack Postman posted:

Not true. They changed animations for at least two big weapon series that I can think of off the top of my head: 1-handed Halberd attacks are a simple spear-like thrust, rather than those really clumsy swings. 1-handed Katanas now attack with a vertical swipe rather than a horizontal one. Spears are mostly unchanged, though.

My bad, didn't clarify. I meant that spears are mostly unchanged and they all seem to share the same moveset, not all of the weapons.

Agnostic watermelon
Jul 1, 2009

I'm a lil' Brony!

Funkmaster General posted:

I've ran into a situation where I don't have $60 lying around, and I refuse to not get this on release date, so I think I may be resorting to trading in, which I absolutely hate to do.

Does anyone here have enough experience to tell me what sort of deals I should be looking for/places to trade in? I don't have a lot of recent releases. I think the newest game I own is LA Noire... maybe Brink (did that come out after Noire?), but that tanked and I don't expect more than $5 in trade for that...

Would I have better luck at Vintage Stock than someplace like Gamestop? I don't know how much they tend to pay. I know Gamestop blows for tradeins, but they do have promotions when trading in toward preorders and etc.



Your best bet would have been amazon a few weeks ago since they automatically give you 50% of what they sell it for new.

Gamestop might be your best bet for major retail chains on such short notice. They have tier trading where you get an extra 10% for every two games, but I found that when I used to do this the employees used to do bullshit like charging me "disk cleaning fees" (for disks almost brand new) without telling me, so if you go this route be careful.

Agnostic watermelon fucked around with this message at Oct 1, 2011 around 23:43

Trynant
Oct 7, 2010

The final spice...your tears <3


Popcorn posted:

Is it just a really slow burner, or is this game not for me?

The game is a bit of a slow burner; I'd say try downing another boss before making your decision. Then again, the Souls series brings out different reactions depending on how you enjoy your games. I enjoyed the game practically from the get-go, but it got even better once everything clicked. It could easily be you'll love this game once you get in a zone, but it could go the other way.

Zahi
Jun 3, 2009

bent


Is Thief and riposte a viable build this time or will I regret trying again?

Revitalized
Sep 13, 2007

A free custom title is a free custom title

Lipstick Apathy

Funkmaster General posted:

I've ran into a situation where I don't have $60 lying around, and I refuse to not get this on release date, so I think I may be resorting to trading in, which I absolutely hate to do.

Does anyone here have enough experience to tell me what sort of deals I should be looking for/places to trade in? I don't have a lot of recent releases. I think the newest game I own is LA Noire... maybe Brink (did that come out after Noire?), but that tanked and I don't expect more than $5 in trade for that...

Would I have better luck at Vintage Stock than someplace like Gamestop? I don't know how much they tend to pay. I know Gamestop blows for tradeins, but they do have promotions when trading in toward preorders and etc.

Hit up Best Buy. They have higher trade-in values than gamestop on average, AND they've got bonuses for multiples of a trade-in. (like an additional 30% for 3 or more games traded in) Today's the last day for their additional tradeins though.

Anyways, you can then use the trade-in credit to buy at Best Buy, or you can buy the Amazon kindle cards at $25 or $50 denominators to buy on amazon.

http://www.bestbuytradein.com/bb/Qu...rVideoGames.cfm
you can check the trade in values up there.

They also give you full value even without the case. LA Noire is 16 and Brink is 7. If you plan to preorder dark souls, you get an additional 40% (but the 40% offer and the 30% offer both end today, I just came back from a round of trade-ins an hour ago)

(trade in promos here: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums...ad.php?t=304758)


Also trading into amazon directly is a decent choice sometimes but I don't know if they'll get your games on time to give you credit for a day 1 purchase of dark souls.

Revitalized fucked around with this message at Oct 1, 2011 around 23:51

Jetpack Postman
Jun 30, 2011


Agnostic watermelon posted:

Your best bet would have been amazon a few weeks ago since they automatically give you 50% of what they sell it for new.

Gamestop might be your best bet for retail chains on such short notice.

Best Buy also accepts trade-ins nowadays and I think they give you a bit more credit than GameStop does, but only a bit. Of the two, I'd go with Best Buy since GameStop has gotten into the nasty habit of horrendously understocking games that they aren't absolutely certain are going to sell amazingly well, whereas Best Buy generally has a decent stock of spare copies.

Good Person
Nov 5, 2007

i can sense it in my feet

Polo-Rican posted:

I didn't really enjoy Demon's Souls at all my first time through 1-1... but immediately after that I began to like it more and more. Keep going- you'll see.

When I first played Demon's Souls I got up to the Tower Knight then quit playing, was only a couple months ago I picked it back up again and blasted through and loved it.

http://goo.gl/y0lnF

literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


I am so psyched for this game, but also a bit worried. You see, I played a Royal in Demon's Souls (in other words, I played it on easy), which meant I spent a lot of time (especially early game) taking out enemies from a safe distance, making myself a snack while my mana recharged, then progressing ever so slightly and doing it all over again. Pretty much the only weapon I ever used was a spear, because its the only weapon that:

1.) You can attack while blocking, so block timing becomes much, much less important
2.) Doesn't make you move when you attack, so you can safely use it on ledges without fear of falling.

For the hard bosses (which for me were Maneater, Flameluker, the Old King) I either just took them out with arrows from the other side of the fogged door, or I ran around like a maniac until I came to a spot where they were nearby but didn't seem to realize where I was or couldn't hit me for some reason, then I spammed poison cloud and eroded them to death.

Basically, I managed to beat Demon's Souls without ever really getting any good at block or parry timing.

From what I understand, this is more or less the exact playstyle the Devs tried to nerf for Dark Souls. That is, magic is still there, but every character is now much more required to mix it up close. Is this accurate? I mean, I'm getting it regardless, but I'd like to have some sense of how viable a pure Mage-type character is.

Also, I'm still really unclear on the difference between sorcery and pyromancy, can anyone who has the game explicate on that a bit? Do they use different catalysts? Are their spells different "types" (that is, in Demon's Souls miracles were nearly all healing or defensive in nature apart from that one wrath one, whereas Magic had like 2 defensive spells and everything else was killing poo poo. But miracles still exist in Dark Souls from what I can tell, so whats the distinction between sorcery and pyromancy?)

he1ixx
Aug 23, 2007

Bad at video games.

I really really love the thread title. I laughed out loud at it.

I ordered it for PS3 so I'll be the one swearing loudly next Tuesday night. I can't wait.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


literallyincredible posted:

Also, I'm still really unclear on the difference between sorcery and pyromancy, can anyone who has the game explicate on that a bit? Do they use different catalysts? Are their spells different "types" (that is, in Demon's Souls miracles were nearly all healing or defensive in nature apart from that one wrath one, whereas Magic had like 2 defensive spells and everything else was killing poo poo. But miracles still exist in Dark Souls from what I can tell, so whats the distinction between sorcery and pyromancy?)

They require different catalysts. Sorcery does magic damage and pyromancy does fire damage. I think miracles have lightning damage spells now.

GhostDog
Jul 29, 2003

Always see everything.


The bossfights so far have been uniformly terrible compared to Demon's Souls and - in my opinion - showcase the developer's complete lack of awareness of the shortcommings of their camera, control and lock-on scheme.

There, had to get that off my chest.

The rest is way better though.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

GhostDog posted:

The bossfights so far have been uniformly terrible compared to Demon's Souls and - in my opinion - showcase the developer's complete lack of awareness of the shortcommings of their camera, control and lock-on scheme.

There, had to get that off my chest.

The rest is way better though.
The boss fights were my least favorite part of Demon's Souls too really. The game is much better at exploration and wondering what enemies are behind every turn than having one giant enemy standing right in front of you.

Still, at the moment I'd have to call Dark Souls the new gold standard for video games.

ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


so far i think every boss shown so far for Dark Souls seems really cool to fight.

that's just me though!

GhostDog
Jul 29, 2003

Always see everything.


Samurai Sanders posted:

The boss fights were my least favorite part of Demon's Souls too really. The game is much better at exploration and wondering what enemies are behind every turn than having one giant enemy standing right in front of you.

They were much more methodical though and you could take control, here I'm finding myself fighting the camera in far too small rooms or being pushed off of poo poo.

literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


The camera was definitely hosed a bunch of the time during Demon's Souls boss fights too. At least for me it was--during that fight with the fat dude with the cleaver, I was basically locked onto the floor until I could get down to the bottom level where the boss was standing.

J
Jun 10, 2001



Samurai Sanders posted:

One thing I need to stress is how incredibly vertical this game is. I haven't seen anything like it since Super Metroid, it's something that frankly I wondered if it was gone from gaming forever (other than maybe Minecraft). The various areas are SO FAR UP or SO FAR DOWN from each other, and inside the same area you can look waaaaaaaaay up or waaaaaaaaay down and see the faint, faint lights of where you came from or where you are going. It's really incredible.

If you imagine the big chasm in 2-2 of Demon's that if you go straight down it you bypass the entire stage, you're getting the tiniest taste of what every area in Dark Souls is like.

This only makes the wait even worse. That's awesome to hear, I love that type of design.

Funkmaster General
Sep 13, 2008

Hey, man, I distinctly remember this being an episode of Spongebob.



Revitalized posted:

Hit up Best Buy.

Thanks for the info, but I think Gamestop might be a better deal overall, since I'm not going to make it to Best Buy tonight, and they also have the 30% for 3 (and some other deal I'm not sure about for 7) at gamestop. On the other hand, the prices sound better at Best Buy. I was quoted 9 for LA Noire at gamestop which is absurd. They did offer 20 for Mortal Kombat, which I was pleasantly surprised by.

I'll have to look into trade values on individual games and promos for each store and etc tonight and then go out and do it tomorrow, I guess. Wish I'd done this earlier, though. Depressing to hear all the deals on just this thing which just ended. I didn't realize I'd have to go this route until today, though.

Tainted Ham
Apr 19, 2009


Question about strength and dex: Do they only effect what gear/weapons you can use? Does that mean if I'm playing a Thief I can get away with putting zero points into Strength and be completely boned?

Revitalized
Sep 13, 2007

A free custom title is a free custom title

Lipstick Apathy

Funkmaster General posted:

Thanks for the info, but I think Gamestop might be a better deal overall, since I'm not going to make it to Best Buy tonight, and they also have the 30% for 3 (and some other deal I'm not sure about for 7) at gamestop. On the other hand, the prices sound better at Best Buy. I was quoted 9 for LA Noire at gamestop which is absurd. They did offer 20 for Mortal Kombat, which I was pleasantly surprised by.

I'll have to look into trade values on individual games and promos for each store and etc tonight and then go out and do it tomorrow, I guess. Wish I'd done this earlier, though. Depressing to hear all the deals on just this thing which just ended. I didn't realize I'd have to go this route until today, though.

Mortal Kombat is 23 at best buy!

But it is unfortunate you can't make it to a best buy tonight. They'd even give you 40% bonus just for pre-ordering Dark Souls I think. (Probably no collector's edition by this point of course) but yeah, this promo ends today so I guess you'll have to settle with straight up trades or look at gamestop or something.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

Zebrasectomy posted:

Question about strength and dex: Do they only effect what gear/weapons you can use? Does that mean if I'm playing a Thief I can get away with putting zero points into Strength and be completely boned?
All of your base stats affect all kinds of derived stats, so you're better off not specializing ALL the way.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Zebrasectomy posted:

Question about strength and dex: Do they only effect what gear/weapons you can use? Does that mean if I'm playing a Thief I can get away with putting zero points into Strength and be completely boned?

Most weapons also scale in damage with your stats, strength and dex are the most common ones. But there are weapons that scale entirely with Dex (there were in Demon's anyway) so it should be doable.

Tainted Ham
Apr 19, 2009


Samurai Sanders posted:

All of your base stats affect all kinds of derived stats, so you're better off not specializing ALL the way.

Good to know, thanks.
Ideally I'd like to play a build with high dex that could also use a couple of healing/buff spells. I have no clue how magic works in 'Souls though so this may not be viable.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

One thing I have noticed is that while you can upgrade a bonfire more than once and give yourself more than ten potions at a time. However, I don't see the point in upgrading beyond that ten, I never end up using that many. Or to put it another way, if I'm gonna die, it's not going to be from lack of potions, it's from getting one-shotted or surrounded and octopus clobbered, as the Japanese say.

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.


Also: If Dark souls is anything like demons souls, the most you want in a stat on a general playthough is like 50 because after that diminishing returns on the stats start kicking in really hard. Depending on your character build, if you have 3-4 stats your focusing on, get them all to the 40-50 area before you take them any higher.

StringOfLetters
Apr 2, 2007
What?

^^ Yeah that's totally viable, get some Faith for healing/buffing action.

literallyincredible posted:

Also, I'm still really unclear on the difference between sorcery and pyromancy, can anyone who has the game explicate on that a bit? Do they use different catalysts? Are their spells different "types" (that is, in Demon's Souls miracles were nearly all healing or defensive in nature apart from that one wrath one, whereas Magic had like 2 defensive spells and everything else was killing poo poo. But miracles still exist in Dark Souls from what I can tell, so whats the distinction between sorcery and pyromancy?)

Sorcery and Pyromancy both use the same stats (attunement for more spell slots, intelligence for more spell power) and function basically the same except that they need a different weapon equipped; a spell-stick or a glowy hand, respectively, both of which you can buy from NPCs pretty early on. Sorcery has a mix of defensive/offensive/weird spells and pyromancy is mostly offensive but has a few outliers, like the one that gives you a watery shield for big fire resistance.

Basically, it's like the difference between a sword and a hammer, only with magic instead of hitting things. A character can use them both equally well, except they have different attack patterns and damage types. So a specialized caster is probably going to carry around a mix of both spell types, and switch things around based on the situation, or whichever he's more comfortable using.

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008



any tips for backstabbing? It feels like i cant be more than 2 degrees off the perfect rear. Can all weapons backstab?

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



Pillbug

Fauxtool posted:

any tips for backstabbing? It feels like i cant be more than 2 degrees off the perfect rear. Can all weapons backstab?
Backstabbing is definitely a lot harder here, but as far as I know all weapons can do it...except the whip. I'm actually keeping that weapon upgraded, assuming that the opportunity to upgrade it into something amazing will come later. As of now it is a very, very odd weapon.

literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


quote:

Also: If Dark souls is anything like demons souls, the most you want in a stat on a general playthough is like 50 because after that diminishing returns on the stats start kicking in really hard.

Huh, I never knew this. I maxed out Magic, carried around an insanity catalyst, a ring of magical sharpness and that idiotic looking monk's headgear, and one-shotted everything with Firestorm. I just assumed that my high Magic score was behind that, but maybe in retrospect the gear was doing most of the work and I'd have been better off not specializing. Ah well, c'est la vie (or la mort, I suppose, given the way things tended to go for me in my playthrough).

literallyincredible fucked around with this message at Oct 2, 2011 around 01:21

Danthrax
Jul 11, 2006



Fully paid off my preorder yesterday, can't wait for Tuesday. I loved Demon's Souls and I'm glad I've got Tuesday and Wednesday off so I can spend all my time playing this. Does anyone know if Gamestop will have the big Futurepress guide or can I only buy it online? I'm sure the little guide that comes with the collector's edition will be fine (especially when coupled with the wiki) but the big hardcover one looks awesome too.

Tainted Ham
Apr 19, 2009


Samurai Sanders posted:

Backstabbing is definitely a lot harder here, but as far as I know all weapons can do it...except the whip. I'm actually keeping that weapon upgraded, assuming that the opportunity to upgrade it into something amazing will come later. As of now it is a very, very odd weapon.

Do certain weapons, like daggers, make it easier to backstab?

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001



I just hosed Angelina Jolie with my magical spear. This game is so great. I spent all of yesterday running around in the wrong direction, but I found some awesome loot so that made it worth it. I can also now make it through that section almost with my eyes closed.

raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless


literallyincredible posted:

Huh, I never knew this. I maxed out Magic, carried around an insanity catalyst, a ring of magical sharpness and that idiotic looking monk's headgear, and one-shotted everything with Firestorm. I just assumed that my high Magic score was behind that, but maybe in retrospect the gear was doing most of the work and I'd have been better off not specializing. Ah well, c'est la vie (or la mort, I suppose, given the way things tended to go for me in my playthrough).

You could have done the same with 40 magic, quite honestly, and put those points you saved into more vitality to take shots or endurance to roll around / attack / wear better armor or intelligence for more mana. I had a character with 40 magic who one shotted NG+ Maneater using that setup for a guy in the Demon's Souls thread that was having trouble getting rid of them. My favorite overall character is a slight rebuild of that same character (but my Faith guy wins more often in PvP -- magic is really hard to use against people unless you're going to be super cheesy about it).

In Demon's Souls you generally want to build your stats like you have to build houses in Monopoly. I mean, there's an initial stage where you get enough stats to use the gear you want (usually strength, sometimes you need a little more dex, many characters will want a bit more intelligence or faith to use some basic spells) then you work vitality, endurance and your damage stat (strength, dex, faith, or magic -- depending on where you want to go with your character) up to 20 or so. Then round out your utility spells (Intelligence to 18 is a common stopping point because that gives you just over 100 mana and three spell slots, faith at 16 gives you two slots). Then work the three at 20 to 30. Then the three at 30 to 40 (except some characters don't need 40 endurance). Then, with whatever you have left, the 40s to 50s. That generally puts you at around SL 120 with a character whose stats are going to contribute about as much as they can to that character, but also means your character will not be a jack of all trades, which allows for the maximum amount of diversity in the PvP meta. It's one of the things the Demon's Souls community really got right.

DeathSandwich posted:

Also: If Dark souls is anything like demons souls, the most you want in a stat on a general playthough is like 50 because after that diminishing returns on the stats start kicking in really hard. Depending on your character build, if you have 3-4 stats your focusing on, get them all to the 40-50 area before you take them any higher.

Just to re-emphasize this, in general in Demon's Souls:

10-20: Big changes in power / survivability for stats that determine that. Lots of new equipment opens up for stats that govern that.
20-30: Reasonable changes in power / survivability. The few specialized pieces of equipment you couldn't use before are mostly useable now.
30-40: Noticeable changes in power / survivability. Only one or two pieces of gimmic equipment really require stats over 30 to be useable without penalty.
40-50: Barely noticeable changes in power, though survivability still climbs fairly well. If you have points left over, why not.
50+: Only worth your while for more HP, really, and even then returns are pretty dubious.

My recommended build for Demon's Souls beginners was 20 vitality, 18 intelligence, 20 endurance, 16 strength, 14 dexterity, 10 magic, 16 faith. From there you could then increase either strength, dexterity, magic or faith to 30 or 40 depending on which weapons / shields you liked using and bring vitality and generally endurance along with it. I'd expect something similar is a good idea in Dark Souls. Keep your guy fairly even to the easy to obtain breakpoints and specialize once you get there.

After you finish your first playthrough you can then work on a more min/maxed second or third character (for the PvP meta as being more of an all-rounder is always better for PvM). Gimping some basic stat that adds a lot of tools to your toolbox early for a few more points of damage on a particular attack probably won't be a good idea.

raton fucked around with this message at Oct 2, 2011 around 02:14

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Jetpack Postman
Jun 30, 2011


Zebrasectomy posted:

Do certain weapons, like daggers, make it easier to backstab?

No, but daggers and rapiers make backstabs and ripostes hit quite a bit harder.

Danthrax posted:

Fully paid off my preorder yesterday, can't wait for Tuesday. I loved Demon's Souls and I'm glad I've got Tuesday and Wednesday off so I can spend all my time playing this. Does anyone know if Gamestop will have the big Futurepress guide or can I only buy it online? I'm sure the little guide that comes with the collector's edition will be fine (especially when coupled with the wiki) but the big hardcover one looks awesome too.

Apparently GameStop will carry the guide. Even if you don't plan on using it, I'd get it anyway. It's the closest thing to awesome Dark Souls merch that you'll be able to buy.

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