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swamp waste posted:I think some people have it twisted with regard to the plot: Well it's my understanding the fire is the cause of the undead curse in the first place. The Fire consumes humanity in order to stay lit, this is obvious since you use humanity to make it stronger. As the fire sucks up more and more humanity, more and more people become undead and eventually hollow. Gywn did what he did because he was afraid of losing his power. Humans don't really need the fire, the Lords do.
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Nov 5, 2011 07:15
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Kongming posted:Well it's my understanding the fire is the cause of the undead curse in the first place. The Fire consumes humanity in order to stay lit, this is obvious since you use humanity to make it stronger. As the fire sucks up more and more humanity, more and more people become undead and eventually hollow. Gywn did what he did because he was afraid of losing his power. Humans don't really need the fire, the Lords do. That actually made me realize something. There's pretty much no people in Lordran. There's plenty of undead, the vast, vast majority of whom are the pissed off, crazy Hollowed variety of undead. There's dragons (which were supposedly "no more") flapping around like it ain't no thang. And there's tons and tons of demons and monsters and giants running rampant. So there's like, what? Six living humans left in all of Lordran? Really? Are there actually more giant jumping zombie dragon asses than there are living, breathing people or am I missing something?
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Nov 5, 2011 07:34
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Digger-254 posted:That actually made me realize something. There's pretty much no people in Lordran. There's plenty of undead, the vast, vast majority of whom are the pissed off, crazy Hollowed variety of undead. There's dragons (which were supposedly "no more") flapping around like it ain't no thang. And there's tons and tons of demons and monsters and giants running rampant. Going by the intro Lordran is still pretty far north overall, the land of the gods and such. Like the Undead Parish/etc. are literally called that by people who live elsewhere because that's all that's left, same with the Undead Asylum. They're all brought there, the slightly lucid ones are given a weapon and told to guard a spot to the really far gone ones don't try to run out and fall off a mountain, etc. I took the "...where they await the end of the world," part of the intro literally, Lordran was probably bustling with life when you were first put in that cell, who knows how long you were sitting there. The same thing happens in Demon's Souls where it's implied that quite a bit of time passes between when you first get killed by Vanguard and then are revived in the Nexus. I figured outside of Lordran life goes on as normal until so much humanity is sucked up that the "radius" of "everyone in here is a crazy hollow" starts to slowly expand like the fog in Demon's Souls. Most of From Software's games (King's Field series especially) are built this way, with your quest beginning at the edge of what would be a normal society and gradually getting further and further away from that. On the DLC front, if they do make some DLC I hope they get really creative with it. from Ash Lake you see so many trees that it made me think it's like the game's biblical center of the world or something with each tree going to another dimension. This would let them design pretty much whatever they want. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 07:43
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Kongming posted:Well it's my understanding the fire is the cause of the undead curse in the first place. The Fire consumes humanity in order to stay lit, this is obvious since you use humanity to make it stronger. As the fire sucks up more and more humanity, more and more people become undead and eventually hollow. Gywn did what he did because he was afraid of losing his power. Humans don't really need the fire, the Lords do. The way story lays it out is that everything related to Gwyn and the undead curse is actually pretty recent in his reign, probably the last 100-200 years. It makes me believe that during the time his reign was at its brightest, the bonfires probably held back the darksigns and the curse of the undead all on their own, without any humanity sacrificing. Going to keep the flames burning by hollowing himself is basically the last thing he can do to strengthen the waning fires and making the descendents of the Dark Lord and undeath in humanity less prominent. He probably set up Frampt and Gwyndolin to wait for a worthy undead to take his place when they come upon him the Kiln. The reason I believe this is that Anastacia, being a firekeeper, tells you that linking the fires will return her humanity to her forever, leaving her free to die peacefully as a human. ThePhenomenalBaby fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 07:48
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Digger-254 posted:That actually made me realize something. There's pretty much no people in Lordran. There's plenty of undead, the vast, vast majority of whom are the pissed off, crazy Hollowed variety of undead. There's dragons (which were supposedly "no more") flapping around like it ain't no thang. And there's tons and tons of demons and monsters and giants running rampant. From what I can tell, there are only two dragons left, Seath and the Stone Dragon. The rest are dead, or drakes, which are not dragons. As for there being no people... I always got the sense that Loredran was kinda like Valhalla, in the sense that it's not really occupied by living people. Only the dead and the gods.
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Nov 5, 2011 07:49
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:
Dammit Dark Souls I spoke to her constantly and was never told this.
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Nov 5, 2011 07:53
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Neo Rasa posted:Dammit Dark Souls I spoke to her constantly and was never told this. I believe she only says it when you're at the very end of the game - either having collected all the lords souls or actually opened up the kiln.
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Nov 5, 2011 07:53
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:The way story lays it out is that everything related to Gwyn and the undead curse is actually pretty recent in his reign, probably the last 100-200 years. It makes me believe that during the time his reign was at its brightest, the bonfires probably held back the darksigns and the curse of the undead all on their own, without any humanity sacrificing. Going to to keep the flames burning by hollowing himself is basically the last thing he can do to strengthen the waning fires and making the descendents of the Dark Lord and undeath in humanity less prominent. He probably set up Frampt and Gwyndolin to wait for a worthy undead to take his place when he comes upon him the Kiln. That is, unless you believe what Kaathe says about Gwyn clouding human history to further his goals. The game never ultimately defines what becoming the Dark Lord means. Frampt even joins you in the end if you become the Dark Lord, so trusting what he says either way is a stretch. What most sells me on Gwyn being full of poo poo is the fact that all the clerics seem to be under the impression that sacrificing humanity to the fires will bring them some great power, but all it really serves to to is make them twisted. Based on the history we can see, reigniting the flame is a cycle of perpetual disappointment and sacrifice that will ultimately lead to the light dying once again, or horrible things like the Witch of Izalith's experiment. It very much feels like a Greek gods vs. titans match, where Gwyn and friends killed the Dragons, and the humans just scrabble around in the scraps. I feel like it's better to make the choice to change and move on than to just restart the whole cycle.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:03
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Well yeah all evidence points to this occurring again in future if you pick the fire ending. Of course, some humans becoming a bunch of ravenous Darkwraiths and subjugating and devouring the humanity of the rest doesn't seem very positive. But then again, perhaps they are more human than we? 
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Nov 5, 2011 08:10
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Finally got out of Blighttown and rang that bell. it seems like there's a few places for me to go to now. Do I head to: The lava place under Quelagg's place? Sen's fortress? A place I can farm and grind tons of souls? Also, When do I get to kill Lautrec for being an rear end in a top hat?
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Nov 5, 2011 08:19
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Edit: ^^^ Sen's Fortress. The Demon Ruins will eventually block your way if you haven't gone through Sen's and the area after it. When it's time to kill Lautrec, you'll know something's up.ThePhenomenalBaby posted:Well yeah all evidence points to this occurring again in future if you pick the fire ending. Of course, some humans becoming a bunch of ravenous Darkwraiths and subjugating and devouring the humanity of the rest doesn't seem very positive. Interesting topic there. If the Dark Wraiths were raised because of the power given to the Four Kings by Kaathe who then fell to the call of power, does that necessarily mean that the same thing will happen again? Kaathe does say that those that came before the main character were too weak. And in turn, many of the humans that actually live seem very fundamentally flawed as we addressed earlier in the thread. Lautrec kills, Patches kills for gain, there is something very deeply weird about Petrus. The merchants are scavengers, some of whom even sell humanity they've found. Assuming Logan's actually human at the end, he goes loving batshit with the knowledge he's gained. Gotta say, what's left of humanity in Lordran isn't exactly promising. DarkArchimedes fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 08:22
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Logan doesn't run around as naked zombie, so he's still human, just that Crystal knowledge made him mad like Seath.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:29
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:Well yeah all evidence points to this occurring again in future if you pick the fire ending. Of course, some humans becoming a bunch of ravenous Darkwraiths and subjugating and devouring the humanity of the rest doesn't seem very positive. It's kind of interesting how it plays against the traditional associations with light and dark, and then twists it even more by suggesting that maybe the "pro-humanity" approach isn't necessarily the "good" one. I don't think there really IS a good ending in the game.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:30
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One more question. I'm heading to try and join the Dragon Covenant but I heard something about a Lord's Vessel and that I might get stuck if I get there and dont have it. Is this true?
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Nov 5, 2011 08:33
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Dizz posted:One more question. I'm heading to try and join the Dragon Covenant but I heard something about a Lord's Vessel and that I might get stuck if I get there and dont have it. Is this true? Nah, the Dragon Covenant is accessible throughout the game without any issue, and without any way to break it aside from leaving. It's one of the most safe, in fact. It's the Darkwraith Covenant that can be blocked off.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:38
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Dizz posted:One more question. I'm heading to try and join the Dragon Covenant but I heard something about a Lord's Vessel and that I might get stuck if I get there and dont have it. Is this true? You won't be stuck, but it's a bit of a pain in the rear end to get out if you're not at the point in the game where you have that item.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:38
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Dizz posted:One more question. I'm heading to try and join the Dragon Covenant but I heard something about a Lord's Vessel and that I might get stuck if I get there and dont have it. Is this true?
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Nov 5, 2011 08:38
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Dizz posted:One more question. I'm heading to try and join the Dragon Covenant but I heard something about a Lord's Vessel and that I might get stuck if I get there and dont have it. Is this true? No. This is only an issue in the catacombs.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:39
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Yeah I'd highly advise not going for the Dragon covenant until you have the Lordvessel. Going back up the Great Hollow is a huge pain in the rear end.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:40
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DarkArchimedes posted:
Every single person you meet is undead. Lordran is the land of the dead. You can't even get in without being undead (according to the intro and ~Solaire~). Also, there's no philosophical quandry because Kaathe is a really blatant moustache twirling villain who literally runs the faction that goes around killing people for humanity and teaches you how to drain people's humanity as to cast off their "shackles" which is their humanity. You don't really learn much about the either side but the clarity of Kaathe and the Dark representing the lack of humanity, life and all the other things that fire and light represent is presented pretty clearly. The Dark Lord ending is more or less "welp we found the most badass dude who can steal other people's humanity and souls while maintaining their sanity time to take over the world with our new undead god king" Fereydun fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 08:40
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Vargs posted:No. This is only an issue in the catacombs. If you haven't gotten to the second bonfire in the Tomb of the Giants only to be blocked by a gold wall and had to fight your way back to the surface, I'm not sure you've really played dark souls. Roguelike fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 08:42
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Cbouncerrun posted:Yeah I'd highly advise not going for the Dragon covenant until you have the Lordvessel. Going back up the Great Hollow is a huge pain in the rear end. It takes like 4 minutes to get back up, and all you have to do is run past a handful of curse frogs that can do precisely jack poo poo as long as you don't stand still. Really, the only bad part is that little bit of horrible geometry that you can't climb without trying to roll over it 20 times. Roguelike posted:If you haven't gotten to the second bonfire in the Tomb of the Giants only to be blocked by a gold wall and had to fight your back to the surface, I'm not sure you've really played dark souls. I was more speaking of the fact that you can bypass levers that control the spike bridges in the catacombs by dropping off ledges in a clever way, meaning that there is literally no way to leave, completely loving your character permanently.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:43
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Roguelike posted:If you haven't gotten to the second bonfire in the Tomb of the Giants only to be blocked by a gold wall and had to fight your back to the surface, I'm not sure you've really played dark souls. Well at least I got a cool ring while I was down there.  vvv: I also completely missed the Blighttown <-> Firelink Shortcut my first time down by failing to notice a ladder in the waterwheel section and walked all the way back the way I came in, and then back down again once I heard about the shortcut. I also missed: The bonfire at the base of the swamp, the Chaos Daughters chamber, and was too scared to move on and didn't see the bonfire just inside the Demon's Ruins. Sacrificial Toast fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 08:44
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Roguelike posted:If you haven't gotten to the second bonfire in the Tomb of the Giants only to be blocked by a gold wall and had to fight your way back to the surface, I'm not sure you've really played dark souls. It's the same with Blighttown. Everyone should experience it at least once to truly appreciate the short cut.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:54
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In NG+ and roughly level 90. I cant seem to invade anywhere. There is a a line etched over my red eye orb wherever I go it seems. Why is this happening and where can I invade? God, the MP in this game is such dog poo poo compared to Demon's. It's such a loving nightmare trying to play with other people. They took it way too far and hosed it up so bad.
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Nov 5, 2011 08:59
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Are you in the Darkwraiths covenant? You can't use the Red orb if you aren't.
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Nov 5, 2011 09:01
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NESguerilla posted:In NG+ and roughly level 90. I cant seem to invade anywhere. There is a a line etched over my red eye orb wherever I go it seems. Why is this happening and where can I invade? You need to be in human form to invade anywhere as a Darkwraith. Darkmoons can invade while hollow, though.
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Nov 5, 2011 09:01
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Sacrificial Toast posted:You need to be in human form to invade anywhere as a Darkwraith. Darkmoons can invade while hollow, though. What are the advantages/disadvantages that Darkmoons have over Darkwraiths, other than being able to invade while hollowed? I didn't even consider joining Darkmoons until you said this.
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Nov 5, 2011 09:04
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Darkmoons can only invade people with sin I think. I don't think they get humanity when they win either, just a souvenir.
RatHat fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 09:07
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Sacrificial Toast posted:You need to be in human form to invade anywhere as a Darkwraith. Darkmoons can invade while hollow, though. Thanks. God that doesn't make any sense though. I thought being hollowed was the whole point of invading was to get humanity.
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Nov 5, 2011 09:10
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NESguerilla posted:Thanks. God that doesn't make any sense though. I thought being hollowed was the whole point of invading was to get humanity. The point of invading is to slaughter your way through the host's two phantom bodyguards and kill him while he begs for mercy. The humanity is secondary. Likewise, the point of being a gravelord is so you can go to dark Anor Londo and get invaded by three people and then kill them all. Also apparently red phantoms can attack each other. I somehow invaded a world with another red phantom already there and I stabbed him and he hit me with tranquil walk of peace. VVVV EDIT: I knew Blue and Red phantoms could fight, and even get souls from killing each other, but I didn't think same colored phantoms could hurt each other. Roguelike fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 09:53
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Yeah I invaded a dark Anor Londo as a blue phantom and got killed by a red one.
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Nov 5, 2011 09:55
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I feel like a lot of people speculating on Kaathe / Frampt and what lighting the fires actually means would be well served by taking the game's backing mythos as a Buddhist one rather than trying to fit it in to some Greek or Viking base. Here are a few primary tenets of Buddhism: all life is suffering, suffering is at its root caused by attachment, there is no fundamental self (no "soul"). All three of these items manifest themselves very clearly (and slightly differently) in DS and DS+. Kaathe being the a sort of representative for an ebb of phenominological existence and Frampt for a (fundamentally illusory and painful-by-nature) differentiation between self and the void is, I think, more consistent.
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Nov 5, 2011 10:23
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Kaathe is Telling at least some element of the truth, I think. Bear in mind that humanity appears as a tiny black sprite and that the intro says "then, from the dark they came" in reference to humanity. Humans are dark by nature, and the fiery darksign is the cause of their continued life after death. The afflicted are drawn to Lordran where they either settle or strike out on a quest, but they almost inevitably fall and feed their humanity to the bonfires. Frampt and Gwyn have to be stopped, but Kaathe definitely has his own ends in mind.
Hobo Siege fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 10:27
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Is the dragon greatsword worth investing the strength in it?
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Nov 5, 2011 10:34
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I'm just trying to open up the end game area for my NG+ character and gently caress the Bed of Chaos and its bullshit.
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Nov 5, 2011 10:43
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If you invest that many points in strength certain strength weapons will be able to outdamage the Drgaon Greatsword simply because of all the points you put into being to be able to one-hand it going towards a respective scaling bonus. That said the new patch will give some more base damage points and it's two-handed R2 attack does hella sick damage if you land the swing and the projectile wave it launches.
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Nov 5, 2011 10:43
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:If you invest that many points in strength certain strength weapons will be able to outdamage the Drgaon Greatsword simply because of all the points you put into being to be able to one-hand it going towards a respective scaling bonus. That said the new patch will give some more base damage points and it's two-handed R2 attack does hella sick damage if you land the swing and the projectile wave it launches. Nice. I just need a good place to farm tons of souls and I'l be set. for now im just gonna brave Sen's fortress now that I got what I wanted.
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Nov 5, 2011 10:47
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Wow, so far this is by far my least successful outing to Anor Lando ever. I spent like an hour straight and fifteen deaths just trying to get OUT of the castle. That first bonfire on the inside of it is in a really bad place. Since the patch hit it has gotten HARDER to find matches than before, I initially thought it was just because it was bad timing for Japan but checking the clock it's like 7 pm there on Saturday, ideal time to play I would think. No, I think something else is going on with 1.04 that somehow hosed up the matchmaking even more. Also what level do y'all recommend the optional fight that is in Anor Lando castle? You know the one. I got slaughtered at level 35. I wasn't expecting there to be three of them... Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 11:00
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So, I've been having a blast with this game, and I think I've been making decent progress, as I just killed The Gargoyles and rung the first bell though I do have two questions, 1. Is there any place to sell your stuff, or should I just drop it on the ground? 2. I killed that knight guy in the golden armor, the one that you can free in the Undead Parish, after he spawned back at Fire Link and continued to be suspect in every possible way. Did I just gently caress myself?
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Nov 5, 2011 11:26
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