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TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

wormil posted:

So what? Kool aid would do well in a blind taste test, if that is your only criteria.

My point is basically the strict rules of bourbon production actually stifle my interest. It's borderline too homogenous, but I get it. Traditional bourbon drinkers have their preference and they don't deviate from it so it doesn't matter. Right now I keep a bottle of Four Roses Single Barrel for sipping and Bulleit for mixing. I have Whistle Pig Rye for sipping and Redemption Rye for mixing. I have countless bottles of scotch and world whiskies though because they are a curiosity at the very least.

My point is also that homogeneity means I'd be pretty okay with the $20 bottle of Bulleit for sipping vs the $45 bottle of Four Roses SB. Basically I'd save a few bucks on bourbon in order to expand my horizons on single malts.

TobinHatesYou fucked around with this message at Jun 6, 2016 around 00:52

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BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

It Could Save Your Life
HUNDREDS OF COLLISIONS


I'm go through more <$30 bourbon than anything else, but I can't say I've ever had a single malt and thought "I really wish this was an equally priced bourbon." They're too different, it's not like a $40 scotch is the equivalent of a $15 bourbon insert glenlivet joke here. Scotch is more expensive so I buy less scotch and drink bottles more slowly.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

kidsafe posted:

Traditional bourbon drinkers have their preference and they don't deviate from it so it doesn't matter.

This is probably true unfortunately. Bourbon drinkers tend to be scattered and don't congregate like scotch drinkers. Atop that there are drinkers who prefer bourbon and then there whiskey drinkers that drink primarily bourbon (a minority); I consider myself the latter. I drink lots of whisk(e)ys and aren't afraid to try new things but generally I prefer bourbons. And over time I've come to prefer fewer and fewer bourbons mostly because of consistency. WT101, OGD100, EC12, 1783, 4R small batch, Woodford, are all fairly consistent. Bulleit, 4R single barrel, BT are less consistent but generally excellent. (If I didn't mention something, nothing is implied). To me there is a good deal of variety but obviously nothing to the extent of scotch. If money were no consideration I would drink a lot of Lagavulin, love that stuff. But money is a consideration and at $100 bottle, it isn't worth that; as in objectively, the quality doesn't justify the price. And I understand that quality isn't what drives economics but it is what drives me. And quality is a tough discussion in whiskys and we will all have different opinions but quality to me doesn't equal different than bourbon. Baker's bourbon is every bit equal in quality if not better than Lagavulin and is $50. Scotch isn't driven by quality but by availability and uniqueness and the latter is not as important to me as it is to some.

biglads
Feb 21, 2007

I could've gone to Blatherwycke



Fun Shoe

wormil posted:

Scotch isn't driven by quality but by availability and uniqueness and the latter is not as important to me as it is to some.

Just chiming in to kind of agree with this. The rarity of Scotch/Japanese whiskies does have a massive effect on the price, but right now we're in a boom and there is some considerable price-gouging going on. Big Speyside distilleries are doubling & tripling in size yet replacing their core age-statement ranges with NAS offerings at the same price.

As an example that has been discussed recently in the thread, Glenlivet recently finished a massive expansion and are in the midst of another. The 12 year old is disappearing from non-US markets to be replaced by the NAS Founder's Reserve - an inferior whisky. Macallan are in a similar position (massive expansion, NAS bottlings, cheaper wood) and a lot of the bigger Diageo distilleries have released NAS bottlings that currently sit alongside their aged bottles. I'm not one of those people who have a bee in their bonnet about NAS whisky, there's a lot of very good ones about. However, when whisky matured for 5 years is being pushed at the same price as stuff 10/12/15 years old you know there's more profit involved so that's why we're seeing it.

A couple of weeks ago I was in the highlands and talking to someone involved in the industry. They basically said that because we are in a boom, a lot of stuff that is frankly not great is getting bottled, particularly by indys. "If we can't get rid of this stuff now, when can we?". There are still some comparative bargains available though. 80 is a lot to spend on a bottle of whisky, but 80 for a bottle of Glendronach 21 y/o is reasonable considering a Macallan 21 will set you back nearly 300 and a Glenlivet 21 will be 140, plus IMO the Glendronach is a much better dram than either. Now I'll wager that there's less casks of 21 y/o Glendronach kicking around than 21 y/o Macallan or Glenlivet, plus Glendronach being smaller won't benefit from the economies of scale that Macallan (Edrington) or Glenlivet (Pernod Ricard) can achieve. So, the link between availability/uniqueness and price isn't quite as clear cut as it can seem.

ChickenArise
May 12, 2010

POWER
= MEAT +
OPPORTUNITY
= BATTLEWORMS


I usually keep a handle of beam around for mixing or bad decisions, but recently Old Forester's classic bourbon has been the same price in VA. It's pretty good! I can actually enjoy it with an ice cube or whatever. It's fairly unremarkable, with a slight fruity sweetness, but smooth for its price.

It's no Birthday Bourbon, sadly.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

Biglads, the very same gouging is happening in the bourbon market. Bourbons I could have bought for $15 three years ago like Weller Special Reserve are $25 now. Bourbon distillers in general have never really been too keen on featuring age statements. A while back a big deal was made when Maker's Mark announced they were not only bottling it 1-1.5 years younger (5.5 years vs 7,) but also at a lower proof. They have since done an about-face on the proof change, but it speaks to the decline in quality/value proposition.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.


I agree that bourbon prices are going up, but not there are some really good ones that haven't. WL Weller and BT have been, but others like Evan Williams 1783 and single barrel, Woodford, and Rittenhouse haven't.

Actually, Weller and BT are from the same distillery, it may vary by company.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

And that's why I don't bother with new bourbons, the ones I have tried were an inferior product sold above $30.

Big Bidness
Aug 2, 2004



The bourbon market right now is totally gross with ridiculously overinflated prices, but there's still a ton of good stuff out there for reasonable prices if you put some effort into it. Which kind of sucks. I used to be able to buy Weller 12 and Elmer T Lee at any liquor store near me for less than $30. Now they're averaging $199 and $110 on wine-searcher. It's mind boggling.

I've been grabbing store selects lately when I'm looking to try something very good to great for less than 80 bucks. I don't particularly care for Eagle Rare 10, but I've had two select bottles from different shops and they were both incredibly good. And it's hard to go wrong with any of the Four Roses private selects, even though some shops have caught on are are starting to charge too much for them.

KWC
Jul 5, 2007
Hello

Is $60-70 a pretty good price for Ardbeg uigeadail or corryvreckan?
I thought they were closer to $90 but that would have been a couple years ago I last checked.
Maybe New Hampshire is just that much cheaper?

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

KWC posted:

Is $60-70 a pretty good price for Ardbeg uigeadail or corryvreckan?
I thought they were closer to $90 but that would have been a couple years ago I last checked.
Maybe New Hampshire is just that much cheaper?

It's a pretty standard price for Corryvreckan. Uigeadail has never been as high as $70 around these parts. It's $55 at K&L for example.

KWC
Jul 5, 2007
Hello

Thanks. It seemed like a better deal.
I think I may still grab the Corryvreckan. I haven't seen it locally for a while.

Shugojin
Sep 6, 2007

THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...



wormil posted:

If money were no consideration I would drink a lot of Lagavulin, love that stuff. But money is a consideration and at $100 bottle, it isn't worth that; as in objectively, the quality doesn't justify the price.

Right? It's crazy and there's a reason I was happy to accept it as my sole birthday present. It's one of my favorite things to taste but dang it's expensive when I know I can get two to three bottles of bourbon for the same price that I will enjoy not significantly less. I really like Lagavulin but I am okay with it being an occasional thing.

Distorted Kiwi
Jun 11, 2014

"C'mon! Let's tune our weapons!"

Decided to try out the Makers 46, only to discover my local whisky pusher had sold out. He steered me to the Bakers instead.

He has chosen.. wisely. Sampled last night with a tiny drop of water to open and tame the beast a little. Going to help me through the winter months nicely.

Came in at NZD$90, or $63 American. Don't tell the wife.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

I rarely like Beam products but Bakers is fantastic.

JUST MAKING CHILI
Feb 14, 2008


Bakers is good, Bookers is better!

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

The Mandingo posted:

Bakers is good, Bookers is better!

I vastly prefer Baker's to Booker's and so it seems like the majority of people who visit the Jim Beam Small Batch tables at Whiskyfest, Whiskies of the World, Whisky Live, etc.

Distorted Kiwi
Jun 11, 2014

"C'mon! Let's tune our weapons!"

Haven't tried the Bookers yet, but it's got a pretty steep price jump over here. (something like an extra NZ$20 over the Bakers)

Or in my mind, 1/2 a bottle of Coruba Rum.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

The Mandingo posted:

Bakers is good, Bookers is better!

The bottle I had tasted like dust; terrible. Took forever to finish it. I think I mixed it with a honey bourbon that I wasn't fond of but together they were drinkable. At that price range I expect better; someone should be tasting the loving barrels before bottling. Does Beam even have a master distiller? I've had issues with Knob Creek not being consistent too. To be honest, I think Bakers is an anomaly among Beam products in that is delicious, higher end, and consistent.

biglads
Feb 21, 2007

I could've gone to Blatherwycke



Fun Shoe

Heads up to UK goons. Aldi are doing a Rum cask finished single malt for 20, and pretty drat nice it is too.

Other than the Balvenie Caribbean Cask/Rum Cask bottlings there doesn't seem to be any OB Rum Cask bottlings right now, the BenRiach ones have all disappeared, so I was pleased to spot it.

JUST MAKING CHILI
Feb 14, 2008


wormil posted:

The bottle I had tasted like dust; terrible. Took forever to finish it. I think I mixed it with a honey bourbon that I wasn't fond of but together they were drinkable. At that price range I expect better; someone should be tasting the loving barrels before bottling. Does Beam even have a master distiller? I've had issues with Knob Creek not being consistent too. To be honest, I think Bakers is an anomaly among Beam products in that is delicious, higher end, and consistent.

It is a small batch bourbon so it can be inconsistent, but the three bottles I've had have all been good. Hot with a big burn but with some water or in a classic cocktail it's great. I've never had bad tasting notes, always sweetness, vanilla, and tannin. The nose can be off-putting though.

Plus I buy it on sale, never paid more than $45 iirc.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Inconsistent and bad are different things. The former is acceptable and unavoidable in a small batch or single barrel, the latter indicates a failure in the quality control process.

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008



So, my brother shipped my dad the Johnie Walker Adventurer's collection, with the caveat that one bottle goes to my grandfather, one to my dad and one to me. My grandfather got the only drinkable one (The Royal Road IIRC) and I got the dreck (Spice Road)

Distorted Kiwi
Jun 11, 2014

"C'mon! Let's tune our weapons!"

Cross-posting from the PYF cat pics thread.



My cat has approved the Bakers.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

Glendronach so good.

Distorted Kiwi
Jun 11, 2014

"C'mon! Let's tune our weapons!"

kidsafe posted:

Glendronach so good.

Both those two are pretty drat good. My whisky pusher is VERY big on the label, so I don't doubt I'll end up with another variant somewhere down the track.

mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Quick question: is JW Green Label still available for purchase in duty-free stores, or is it gone for good?

I'm finally planning a trip overseas in a couple of months, and I'm hoping that I still have a chance of snagging a bottle.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

Green Label is part of the core range again as of last year in the US and earlier this year everywhere else. Considering single malt prices, it's kind of a steal to be getting 15-year old blended malt for ~$55..

TobinHatesYou fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2016 around 19:13

mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

kidsafe posted:

Green Label is part of the core range again as of last year in the US and earlier this year everywhere else. Considering single malt prices, it's kind of a steal to be getting 15-year old blended malt for ~$55..

I'm in Canada, and the LCBO's website doesn't list it, so I guess travel will have to do (unless I can find it in Poland if/when I go).

Terminal Entropy
Dec 26, 2012



Looking for some suggestions for ryes. Some that I have had before and liked are:

Bulleit
Highspire
Knob Creek
Michters
Old Overholt
Rittenhouse
Wild Turkey

Also: How does the Crown Royal Rye compare to American ryes? I know it was flying off of the shelf this past Christmas, but am curious if the hype for it was justified, at least compared to ones from the likes of Bulleit, Rittenhouse, and Wild Turkey.

Terminal Entropy fucked around with this message at Jul 1, 2016 around 03:24

Gregorio
Aug 8, 2010


Distorted Kiwi posted:

Cross-posting from the PYF cat pics thread.



My cat has approved the Bakers.

The Jacob's Creek aged in whisky barrels is also good. I got the Coonawarra cab sauv from them together with one that wasn't whisky aged and the barrel aging made it smoother.

Had some cider in Tasmania that was aged in ex-Lark whisky barrels and it was awesome, you could still really taste the whisky in it

Deceptive Thinker
Oct 5, 2005

I'll rip out your optics!

Terminal Entropy posted:

Looking for some suggestions for ryes. Some that I have had before and liked are:

Bulleit
Highspire
Knob Creek
Michters
Old Overholt
Rittenhouse
Wild Turkey

Also: How does the Crown Royal Rye compare to American ryes? I know it was flying off of the shelf this past Christmas, but am curious if the hype for it was justified, at least compared to ones from the likes of Bulleit, Rittenhouse, and Wild Turkey.

High West's Double Rye and Rendezvous Rye are both great, as are the limited edition barrel finished versions of both if you can find them (Yippee-ki-yay and Midwinter Night's Dram)
Hochstadter's Vatted Rye (avoid their Slow & Low)
Sazarac is also a good bang for the buck if you can find it at retail price.

People also rave about Pikesville, but I found it to be nothing special.


The Crown Royal rye that you saw flying off the shelves is not for rye drinkers, it is WAY too sweet, and not in the good way. It won a whiskey of the year award from Jim Murray so of course people bought it out like crazy.

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

College Slice

Brexit is doing awesome things to import whiskey prices! Make sure to grab some while you can (if your state allows it).

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead

Deceptive Thinker posted:

High West's Double Rye and Rendezvous Rye are both great, as are the limited edition barrel finished versions of both if you can find them (Yippee-ki-yay and Midwinter Night's Dram)
I've had a lot of great High West whiskey, agree wholeheartedly with this. High West Bourye is expensive, but one of my favorite drinks.

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009


LorneReams posted:

Brexit is doing awesome things to import whiskey prices! Make sure to grab some while you can (if your state allows it).

Do you mean ordering online or just the prices at your local liquor store? Here in Oregon prices are set by the state so I don't know if Brexit will change much around here in the short term.

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

College Slice

Inspector 34 posted:

Do you mean ordering online or just the prices at your local liquor store? Here in Oregon prices are set by the state so I don't know if Brexit will change much around here in the short term.

I order from here, and the price fluctuates quite a bit as they are just converting from GBP anyway.

https://www.thewhiskybarrel.com/

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

5th & Harrison is out, but don't buy any so I can grab a second bottle later if I decide it's good enough for a revisit.

Deceptive Thinker
Oct 5, 2005

I'll rip out your optics!

Local store has an overstock of Octomore 6.1, Black Art 4.1 and HP Freya at a heavy discount (limit 2 each per). Store owner had a tasting of those and a few others tonight. Most people left the store with 2-4 bottles

Deceptive Thinker fucked around with this message at Jul 16, 2016 around 00:55

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

Octomore is very good. It's scary to think about before ever trying it, but it's not the sledgehammer people think it will be. In fact it's kind of the opposite, the ABV and peat just kind of well up in the bottom of your mouth and permeate slowly through the rest. I love it.

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Deceptive Thinker
Oct 5, 2005

I'll rip out your optics!

People were shocked that it was 57% abv

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