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PainBreak
Jun 9, 2001


Jim Beam Black is the flavor of the evening. For a relatively inexpensive bourbon, it always stands up nicely.

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Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


Aglet56 posted:

One of my friends described Laphroaig 10 as "a forest fire in my mouth."

Oh yeah also one friend said "It's like a Charizard cumshot," which is pretty cool.

gimme the lute
Aug 8, 2008

Dancing through the AL East


my go-to description for Ardbeg 10 is "liquid smoke".

Boner Slam
May 9, 2005


Hey guys I want to buy a Bourbon for drinking and making Old-Fashioned style stuff.


I usually drink Islay scotch and I once ordered Wild Turkey Rare Breed and it was kinda underwhelming compared to a scotch.
I don't necessarily like harsh, but it needs to have character beyond tasting like the stuff you get in a club.

Options:
Blanton's Special Reserve 0,7 L 25€

Bulleit Bourbon 0,7 L 20€

Buffalo Trace 0,7 L 26€

Four Roses Bourbon 1,0 L 20€

Jack Daniel's Gentleman Jack 0,7 L 20€

Jim Beam Rye 0,7 L 16€

Jim Beam Black 0,7 L 15€

Jim Beam Red Stag 0,7 L 16€

Jim Beam Devils Cut 0,7 L 18€

Maker's Mark Bourbon 0,7 L 20€

Wild Turkey 101 Proof 0,7 L 23€

Seagrams 7 Crown 0,7 L 20€



I could potentially get others as well but this is pretty much the pricerange.

Most likely using this shop, it's moon language though
http://www.whisky.de/shop/index.php...28_Bourbon.html
http://www.whisky.de/shop/index.php..._Tennessee.html
http://www.whisky.de/shop/index.php...0_Rye-Corn.html

up to around 25€


What do you think?

Boner Slam fucked around with this message at Dec 18, 2011 around 18:32

Windyblade
Oct 17, 2005

I look like Manila Whore Barbie.

Hmmm, if you weren't into Rare Breed I don't see any reason to entertain the WT 101 as an option. For your price range I'd go with the Four Roses or Buffalo Trace, with the latter always striking me as a little sweeter than most bourbons (but still very good).

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


I dunno, I found Buffalo Trace to have a malty graininess that was actually less sweet than a number of bourbons I'd had. I didn't care for it as much as Wild Turkey 101.

If you felt Wild Turkey was bland, stay away from Maker's. You might like rye whiskeys a little better, they've got a spicier character than bourbons. If you can find Rittenhouse Bonded it's fantastic and affordable. I've heard very good things about Sazerac, but it's sort of hard to find. Apparently Bulleit makes a rye that's gotten some notice.

Boner Slam
May 9, 2005


Sazerac goes more for around 50, Rittenhouse nothing under 150 :<

The Ryes I see right now are

- Pikesville Surpreme Straight Rye Whisky
- Old Overhold Rye
- Jim Beam Rye
- McGuinness Old Canada Whisky
- SEAGRAM FIVE STAR Rye Kanada
- Mellow Corn 100 Proof

So not much there.
Maybe my Wild Turkey RB tasting was kinda flawed since I compared it to Caol Ila mostly, which was a lot more intense. Another whisky I love is Bowmore (Mariner 15yo especially though I wouldn't drink it every day). Bourbon seems to be more mellow and subtle? Or maybe I just don't like Bourbon... On the other hand now I read the good rating the Wild Turkey gets so I feel like I missed something and even want to order it again..

I guess it's either one of those Ryes or the best Bourbon that tastes like a characteristic Bourbon so I can find out.



edit: Jim Beam Rye is very cheap. I might just order it anyway. Is it okay to get to know Rye or is is poo poo?


edit: found another store with a bit different selection, have a look

http://www.getraenkewelt-weiser.de/...ort=_pr&order=1

Boner Slam fucked around with this message at Dec 19, 2011 around 01:37

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Boner Slam posted:

I don't necessarily like harsh, but it needs to have character beyond tasting like the stuff you get in a club.

Options:

If you didn't like the Rare Breed it is unlikely these will fill the bill. If you like Beam products I've read good things about Devils Cut. Bakers is one of my favorite bourbons but outside your given price range. Most likely you are too acclimated to the Islays and will not like bourbon.

Seagrams 7? Yeah if you're going to a frat party.



Boner Slam posted:

I don't necessarily like harsh, but it needs to have character beyond tasting like the stuff you get in a club.

Old Granddad 100 (Unfortunately you guys only have 86 proof available)

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


Boner Slam posted:

Sazerac goes more for around 50, Rittenhouse nothing under 150 :<

Yeah the Bonded has been drat hard to find. And the 23 year old bottle of Fancy Sipping Whiskey really doesn't make up for its lack.

Some things to remember about bourbon when comparing it to Scotch is that it's a very young whiskey. Most of the bourbons in your price range are aged for 4 years, and none for more than 6. It's not going to be as smooth as most Scotch, and will have fewer, more bright and forward flavors. For a good workman-like bourbon you should get a fair amount of vanilla, honey, spice, and oak. Wild Turkey 101 hits the bright honey flavors very well in my opinion. It will be sweet, but hopefully not cloying. It'll be warm, but hopefully not burn. It can take ice, but not too much, and it's not always necessary. A bourbon Old Fashioned is excellent, especially with turbinado/demerara syrup. Most of the whiskeys you've listed are not, strictly speaking, sippin' whiskey, so bear that in mind.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Boner Slam posted:

Sazerac goes more for around 50, Rittenhouse nothing under 150 :<

The Ryes I see right now are

- Pikesville Surpreme Straight Rye Whisky
- Old Overhold Rye
- Jim Beam Rye
- McGuinness Old Canada Whisky
- SEAGRAM FIVE STAR Rye Kanada
- Mellow Corn 100 Proof

So not much there.
Maybe my Wild Turkey RB tasting was kinda flawed since I compared it to Caol Ila mostly, which was a lot more intense. Another whisky I love is Bowmore (Mariner 15yo especially though I wouldn't drink it every day). Bourbon seems to be more mellow and subtle? Or maybe I just don't like Bourbon... On the other hand now I read the good rating the Wild Turkey gets so I feel like I missed something and even want to order it again..

I guess it's either one of those Ryes or the best Bourbon that tastes like a characteristic Bourbon so I can find out.



edit: Jim Beam Rye is very cheap. I might just order it anyway. Is it okay to get to know Rye or is is poo poo?


edit: found another store with a bit different selection, have a look

http://www.getraenkewelt-weiser.de/...ort=_pr&order=1

Jim Beam rye is not good. Do not buy Jim Beam rye unless you really really want rye and there are zero other options.
Get the Pikesville or Old Overholt. Or both. They're both decent and different from each other.

e: IIRC, Canadian "rye" is not really rye whiskey.

Jetfire
Apr 29, 2008


Stultus Maximus posted:

e: IIRC, Canadian "rye" is not really rye whiskey.

Canadian whisky is often called rye as short hand, but it isn't strictly a rye whisky unless it says so (e.g. Alberta Premium/Alberta Springs). That being said, several Canadian whiskies include rye in the mashbill.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






Slippery Tilde

I'm a snob when it comes to whisky, I don't really consider Canadian whisky proper whisky, since most brands mix in neutral grain spirit.

Tigren
Oct 3, 2003


Kenning posted:

Yeah the Bonded has been drat hard to find. And the 23 year old bottle of Fancy Sipping Whiskey really doesn't make up for its lack.

The bonded was named best American whiskey in 2010, and since then, it's been almost impossible to find.

Bulleit Rye is fantastic and made with 95% rye, giving it an amazingly floral, peppery profile. Russell's Reserve Rye is also full flavored and rich and a must try.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

Tigren posted:

Bulleit Rye is fantastic and made with 95% rye, giving it an amazingly floral, peppery profile.

That sounds awesome. Have you tried Anchor's Old Potrero? I believe it is (or was at the time I had it) the only 100% rye whiskey made.

http://www.anchordistilling.net/about_us/oldpotrero.htm

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


I've heard the Old Potrero whiskeys described as "bookish," in that they are very interesting and curious, but not the sort of thing you reach for when you just want a tasty drink. Also they're really expensive.

Anchor's Junipero and Genevieve gins, on the other hand, are spectacular.

Schpyder
Jun 13, 2002

Attackle Grackle



Jetfire posted:

That being said, several Canadian whiskies include rye in the mashbill.

That doesn't really mean much considering that most bourbons include rye in the mashbill.

Canadian whisky is its own thing, but when people are talking rye in a whisk(e)y thread, it's decidedly not what they're talking about.

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


Has anyone ever tried Tomatin?

Fuegan
Aug 23, 2008



Was home for the weekend and my parents had a bottle of Benromach Traditional that they'd been given as a present. I don't recall ever trying a Speyside before but I actually really liked it. I think it's going to be a good stepping stone to Islay malts so may end up biting the bullet and getting myself a Laphroaig 10 to try out soon enough but before then I will see what Christmas brings!

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Kenning posted:

Some things to remember about bourbon when comparing it to Scotch is that it's a very young whiskey. Most of the bourbons in your price range are aged for 4 years, and none for more than 6.

Most bourbons on that list are aged 6-10 years. Makers is 6-8 years. WT101 is a blend of 6, 8 & 10 year. Bulleit is 6+. Don't remember BT off the top of my head but I believe it is 6-8. Beam Black is 8. The Four Roses would depend on which expression but they are all over 4. Don't know the age of Blanton's but I'm sure it contains whiskey over 6. Whiskeys mature at different rates in different climates. Hell, they mature at different rates within the same warehouse, which is one reason the barrels are harvested at different times and tasting is so important. So "very young" is misleading and inaccurate.

http://whiskeyreviewer.com/2011/11/bourbon-vs-scotch/



Kenning posted:

It's not going to be as smooth as most Scotch...

And this is not true either.

Kenning posted:

Most of the whiskeys you've listed are not, strictly speaking, sippin' whiskey, so bear that in mind.

With the exception of 7 Crown and and Red Stag, they are all sipping whiskeys.

Boner Slam
May 9, 2005


Ok then so, please recommend the following:

One bourbon, that I could drink on ice at least, that has the characteristics you personally like about bourbon as opposed to scotch. In this price range, your "bourbony" bourbon.
Options include
- Makers Mark
- Wild Turkey 8 year
- Four Roses Straight Bourbon or Four Roses Small Batch
- Old Grand Dad Straight Bourbon
- Jim Beam Green
- Bulleit Frontier
- Jim Beam 6 years or Jim Beam Devils Share
- Jack Daniels
- Pikesville Supreme
- Buffallo Trace
- Gentlemen Jack
- Blanton's Special Reserve
- Elijah Craig 12 Jahre Straight Bourbon

or anything else on listed sites with the price range.

I realise this is subjective but I hope for several opinions. I hope that with this buy plus a rebuy of Wild Turkey Rare Breed in the future to determine wether I like Bourbon at all or if I am simply more a scotch dude.
This will be served with ice, as old-fashioned something and pure on new-years probably.

Thank you for your input in this matter.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

The only bourbons on that list that I drink regularly are Four Roses Small Batch, WT101 (regular not the 8 year which isn't sold here), and Elijah Craig 12.

Also, Gentleman Jack is not a bourbon although it is very similar.

If you want to find out if you like bourbon then drink nothing but for a while. You've been drinking Islay and bourbon is so different that you need to acclimate your taste buds.

Boner Slam
May 9, 2005


Well I mean I am just not going to embark on a several hundred buck adventure if I don't know if I will enjoy it.
As you can see it's very hard to get something under what equivalents to 33$ (nominal rate, even). The best I can do is to give the Rare Breed a fair retrial without a peat bomb next to it and get some good bourbon representative of the price-range I am going to drink most of the time, which is up to around 30€ and I would be really, really happy to find a likeable Bourbon that costs more around 25 or less.
I mean I can get a Bowmore 12 for 25€, Caol Ila and Laphroaig Quarter Cask for 29€ and I am not ashamed to say I enjoy it. At the same time it's not all Islay, I can drink Highland Park, hell Glenmorangie even. poo poo I take a Glenfiddich straight if offered I am in no way after some kind of highbrow stuff. The most expensive Scotch I drank was around 60€ or so but when I buy a bottle I'll most likely buy in the price range of around 25-30. So for the price range, I want to try a bottle of bourbon and see what it brings to the table.
That's why I ask. What do you enjoy about Bourbon that makes it worth to acclimate your taste buds after a scotch?

I know that tasting Rare Breed against Caol Ila Cask Strength is not exactly fair so I'll definitly give it a go again at some point.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Boner Slam posted:

What do you enjoy about Bourbon that makes it worth to acclimate your taste buds after a scotch?

Well I started with bourbon and had to go the other way. My first bottles of scotch were not entirely pleasant but since other people obviously love it I was determined and after a bit I did. For awhile I liked most whatever I was drinking the most, that is to say if I were drinking scotch for a couple weeks then I wouldn't care for bourbon and vice versa but now I can switch back and forth. Last night I was drinking Ardbeg 10, the night before, Elijah Craig 12. There is no guarantees, I tried tried various wines for years before giving up and realizing that I just don't like it, nor do I care for gin. Bourbons are fairly narrowly defined and more like each other than most other whiskys so if you like one then you'll find others.

Even though I am a Wild Turkey fan I probably wouldn't start with Rare Breed. If you want to know if you like bourbon, start with Elijah Craig 12 because it is a well crafted middle of the road selection and relatively inexpensive.

Ralfy does some video tastings of bourbon in Oct & Nov of 2011 if you want the perspective of a malt drinker.
http://www.whiskyreviews.blogspot.c...01_archive.html

Turnquiet
Oct 24, 2002

My friend is an eloquent speaker.


Grimey Drawer

Costco has a three bottle gift pack that includes Dewars 12, Dewars 18, and Dewars Aberfeldy 12 single malt for $99. What do people think of those three?

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






Slippery Tilde

Turnquiet posted:

Costco has a three bottle gift pack that includes Dewars 12, Dewars 18, and Dewars Aberfeldy 12 single malt for $99. What do people think of those three?

Eeehhhh.... Maybe get the Aberfeldy separately, forget about those two blends.

Kenning
Jan 10, 2009

I really want to post goatse. I wish I had 10bux


wormil posted:

Most bourbons on that list are aged 6-10 years. Makers is 6-8 years. WT101 is a blend of 6, 8 & 10 year. Bulleit is 6+. Don't remember BT off the top of my head but I believe it is 6-8. Beam Black is 8. The Four Roses would depend on which expression but they are all over 4. Don't know the age of Blanton's but I'm sure it contains whiskey over 6. Whiskeys mature at different rates in different climates. Hell, they mature at different rates within the same warehouse, which is one reason the barrels are harvested at different times and tasting is so important. So "very young" is misleading and inaccurate.

http://whiskeyreviewer.com/2011/11/bourbon-vs-scotch/


And this is not true either.


With the exception of 7 Crown and and Red Stag, they are all sipping whiskeys.

I stand corrected on the issue of time spent in barrels, my bad. I do think that the fact that bourbons all use new, fresh-charred barrels makes them a bit more, perhaps, spicy and a little more fiery than most of the Scotch I've had. Don't think I'm hating on bourbon; I love American whiskey. It just might be something that might throw someone who grew up on Scotch.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

he's the one who gives his body/
as a weapon of the war/
and without him all this killing can't go on


Mikey Purp posted:

I'm no help on scotch, but give Bulleit a try, or better yet Bulleit Rye.

Good timing in this thread; I just picked up a bottle of Bulleit Rye yesterday to make some punch-type beverage for the holidays. I've had good experiences with Bulleit Bourbon before; it's pretty much my favourite in the <$30 category for bourbon, which is up to this point my favourite form of whiskey. As in "I didn't even like whiskey until I tried bourbon."

The thing that I particularly like about Bulleit is that, rather than simply meet the US-mandated minimum of 50% rye grain (or the godless Cannuck mandated minimum of 0% rye grain), Bulleit goes the distance and makes their rye from 95% rye grain. Not a whiskey expert, but I immediately concur with the assessment that rye is like a drier and spicier bourbon. I don't know how I've gone 31 years without deliberately drinking rye, but I would recommend to any other holdouts that it's a variant worth trying.


For the $50-75 range in the US, with an emphasis on being a rye that's clearly distinct from other whiskeys, are the various Buffalo Trace options decent? Thomas Handy?

Not sure how the thread feels about "white whiskey", but there are a couple of places that do a high-rye (1512 does a 100%) unaged rye distilled products. Are those a decent way to get a feel for the specificities of rye vice other whiskey grains?

deathfalls
Oct 28, 2003
death cult armageddon

So, with my Christmas bonus burning a hole in my pocket, been itching to pick up some new bottles. Picked up a bottle of Bulleit Rye tonight. Good stuff, quite pleased with my purchase there. Also recently acquired Thomas H. Handy Sazerac, it's delicious. Even though it's cask strength, didn't need to use any water. The store also had the Sazerac 18 and George T. Stagg, thinking about going back to pick up those (if they're still around, last year I remember them selling out before I could get any) since I haven't tried those before.

On the scotch side, I was given Laphroaig 18 as a gift.... I've only had the 10 year and the Quarter Cask so it was a treat. The peat is subdued a bit, but it's a drat fine scotch. Ardbeg Uigeadail has also blown my mind, I could drink that every night.

Gregorio
Aug 8, 2010


On my Christmas front a lot less whisky than my birthday (not surprising or anything).

Jim Beam Rye (for mixing, just something a bit different to normal Jim Beam)
Highland Park 18yo
Clynelish 14yo

Also a few weeks ago got myself a Talisker DE because it has gotten so drat cheap here.

A few months ago I also tried a $700 bottle, Ye Whisky of Ye Monks. Only expensive because it is so drat old! Tasted like a 15yo sherried blend of some sort I think but there's not too much info around.

Also opened my Edradour Ibisco and my SMWS "Spicy Chocolate Raisins". Both amazing!

Almost finished my Balvenie Doublewood, Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix, Highland Park/Bowmore Double Barrel and Highland Park 16yo. I also gave away my Uigaedial and 10yo Arbdeg because I just never drank them. So now I have room for a couple of more bottles to go into rotation and hopefully soon finish those other 4 or so and get even more new bottles open and drinking.

Been a while since I posted so that's my whisky update

biglads
Feb 21, 2007

I could've gone to Blatherwycke



Grimey Drawer

I've been drinking an OMC 19 y/o BenRiach (lovely and buttery) and Springbank 10 (one of my 'go to' drams) over christmas.

Knucklebear
Apr 19, 2005


^^Love me some Springbank, I recommend it as often as I can to people that don't like peated whisky's.

In other news, I got a bottle of the 'new' unchill-filtered, no coloring added Bunnahabhain for Christmas.

Loving it! Its like the old Bunnahabhain that I liked plus an extra kick of Bunna goodness. Props to the distillery for making these changes, they're really paying off.

LAchristus
Aug 14, 2006

Don't you know pump it up! YOU'VE GOT TO PUMP IT UP!!!

Going to visit a friend and his father (and his +50 bottle collection). Think we are gonna try around 10 different whiskeys, while playing a good board game. Gonna be awesome yo. I know for a fact that he is serving Old Pulteney 21 y'old - really looking forward to that one as it is "the worlds best 2012". Also hoping to get the Nikka Yoichi we had last year.

Got a Nikka From the Barrel and a small bottle (100ml) of The Glenlivit 1977 and two amazing tumbleres from Φrefors this christmas. I'm happy!

Turnquiet
Oct 24, 2002

My friend is an eloquent speaker.


Grimey Drawer

Trip report on that Dewar's 12: Pretty good. Has no alcohol burn and a pleasant nose. I noticed a distinct charred flavor when I washed it around my mouth. That was jarring at first, but I grew to like it the more I sipped. My experience with the 12 makes me excited to try the 18 and Aberfeldy 12 single malt while on vacation later this week.

Mikey Purp
Sep 30, 2008

I realized it's gotten out of control. I realize I'm out of control.

I was let loose in a Duty Free store on my way back from Mexico yesterday so I decided to pick up a couple of bottles. Seeing as how my knowledge of whiskey/whisky is almost entirely of the whiskey variety, I decided to focus on scotch to expand my horizons a bit.

I picked up one bottle of The Balvenie Doublewood 12 Year because I was drawn by the oak aging -> sherry finishing cask gimmick, and because based on the flavor description on the packaging it seemed like the characteristics of the scotch would be a perfect segue-way for a habitual bourbon drinker

The second bottle I picked up was a Johnnie Walker Black Label, mostly because RIP Hitch . I also thought it may be nice to purchase one single malt and one blended scotch to loosely compare the two. I've had Gold label before and thought it was fantastic, but it has been a long while and back then I hadn't been really exposed to much in the way of brown spirits.

Looking back, the selection was not great but I probably could have done better. Nevertheless I'm excited to break into scotch and expand my collection of drams. That being said, could anyone point me in the direction of a good resource for the different types of single malt scotches available, and what their characteristic qualities are? Specific bottle recommendations are also welcome.

Mikey Purp fucked around with this message at Dec 27, 2011 around 21:35

zonacat
Jan 12, 2005


Had 2 gift pack choices at Costco.

Went to pick up the Glenlivet 12, 15, 18 variety pack for $99.99.

Next to it was a Highland Park 12, 18 2 bottle variety pack for $115.

Went with the Highland Park because I've had a few bottles of the Glenlivet 12 already and wanted to try something new, and I keep reading good Highland Park things in here.

Did I do the right thing?

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






Slippery Tilde

zonacat posted:

Had 2 gift pack choices at Costco.

Went to pick up the Glenlivet 12, 15, 18 variety pack for $99.99.

Next to it was a Highland Park 12, 18 2 bottle variety pack for $115.

Went with the Highland Park because I've had a few bottles of the Glenlivet 12 already and wanted to try something new, and I keep reading good Highland Park things in here.

Did I do the right thing?

Absolutely, nothing wrong with glenlivet, but it doesn't hold a candle against HP, imho.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

dbldown posted:

^^Love me some Springbank, I recommend it as often as I can to people that don't like peated whisky's.

In other news, I got a bottle of the 'new' unchill-filtered, no coloring added Bunnahabhain for Christmas.

Loving it! Its like the old Bunnahabhain that I liked plus an extra kick of Bunna goodness. Props to the distillery for making these changes, they're really paying off.
Springbank is an odd duck in that it's got a very heavy sulphur, burnt match arrival that puts people off more than the usual earthy peat. When I bring my bottle to tasting parties, it's always hard to warm people to it. Their Hazelburn releases on the other hand are general crowd pleasers.

Deanston was also given the 46% unchill-filtered treatment from Burn Stewart, just like Bunnahabhain. I've been meaning to try it, but my bottle rotation is quite unwieldy as is.

TobinHatesYou
Aug 14, 2007
Not Dangerous

spankmeister posted:

Absolutely, nothing wrong with glenlivet, but it doesn't hold a candle against HP, imho.
I don't know though...I think I'd choose the Glenlivet pack based on bang for the buck. $100 for three bottles vs. $115 for two. Glenlivet 18yr is no slouch and the 15yr French Oak is an interesting diversion (much like HP 15yr is a diversion from the rest of HP's core range, too bad it isn't included in the gift pack.)

TobinHatesYou fucked around with this message at Dec 29, 2011 around 13:43

biglads
Feb 21, 2007

I could've gone to Blatherwycke



Grimey Drawer

Driving up towards Speyside for Hogmanay tomorrow.

Hopefully I get there early enough on the 30th to visit Glenfarclas. Good thing is it looks like no snow this year, the last couple of years have been pretty bad weather-wise. Last thing I need is for the A9 the be closed.

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good luck kitten
Aug 18, 2004

Tripping the light fantastic


kidsafe posted:

I don't know though...I think I'd choose the Glenlivet pack based on bang for the buck. $100 for three bottles vs. $115 for two. Glenlivet 18yr is no slouch and the 15yr French Oak is an interesting diversion (much like HP 15yr, too bad it isn't included in the gift pack.)

Yeah, I mean it doesn't seem like $115 is any sort of special deal for the HP 12 & 18. Still though, I love love love HP 18, so I think any time someone buys a bottle of that is a good call.

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