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Based on the way the age statement is put on the bottom label the Black Label looks like one of the 1980s bottles pictured here http://www.johnniewalkerbottles.com/2010/01/black-1980s.html (pics 4 and 6) I let the Internet buy me some whisky. A MacKillop Mortlach from 1989 was getting surprisingly good votes at Whiskybase so I wanted to find out whether the bottle was a little-noticed gem or a total lemon pimped by unscrupulous frauds. I originally got interested in it when found a bottle at my local store who had procured a small amount of bottles and were retailing it for €143, but a search of online sites got me a final price of £98, which at over 20 years of age is agreeable. Peppersteak. old wood, sawdust. slightly acidic? the wood note is very penetrating, slightly sour, venerable. Russian candy (the heated milk-sugar-sauce thing that's in between milk chocolate and caramel in taste). A hell of a burn neat, pepperish mouthfeel, this taste is very rich and complex. I'm getting some of the 'fiddich fruitiness but there's more. The aftertaste is still a bit hollow, wonder if water does the trick? There is staying power here but it seems a bit closed up still. Champagne? Slight sour note bubbled up surprisingly. Didn't last but a moment though. Hay note pops up with a teaspoon of water. The Mortlach says it's a sherrywood but whatever sherry influence there is it is very slight. Must be a refill cask. Water gave this some peppery sumbitchiness (oh there that steak is again, no Benriachy unpleasant meatiness though). Kinda punched through me, very strong. I'm impressed but I think a little more water is needed to stabilise this one. Fruits. In sauna of all places. Really soft now after 2nd spoonful. Pepperbite practically gone. Still very rich, full taste of cinnamon, old wood, surprisingly bold peatiness. Still numbing as it goes down but wow. Aftertaste has freshness but not menthol-y. This is more like coriander but not soapy. Back to taste: Wafers, slight cardboardiness, still that russian candy thing, given two teaspoons of water all the unpleasant characteristics just plain sod off and I'm left with awe and peanuts in the finish. Good stuff. MacKillop bloviates hilariously about his achievements and business in the boxes of the bottles released under the brand ("[...]Master of Wine, of which there are only few[...]", "...and Lorne is pleased [the bottle I'm holding] bears his family name."), but I have to admit the 3 MacKillop's bottles priced at €100 or over I've drank more than a glass or two out of have all been excellent whiskys. The F&F Mortlach is noticeably sweeter and more dominated by sherry influence than this one.
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Jan 12, 2014 13:43
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So it looks like Suntory has bought Jim Bean Having never had any suntory, is this good or bad?
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Jan 13, 2014 22:15
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bunnyofdoom posted:So it looks like Suntory has bought Jim Bean It's just a big alcohol conglomerate. Your question is like "Pernod-Ricard bought Bunnahabhain, I never tried Pastis, is this good or bad?" But to answer your question; Suntory has a few excellent whiskies.
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Jan 13, 2014 22:18
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bunnyofdoom posted:So it looks like Suntory has bought Jim Bean It really doesn't change anything. Bourbon must be made in America, and Suntory isn't going to fire all the workers and ship in Japanese people to do the work. They're also buying established brands like Maker's Mark and of course the Jim Beam label. They just need to do work with the business side.
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Jan 13, 2014 22:37
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Well is Suntory known for its management/product development practices being especially good or bad?
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Jan 14, 2014 04:02
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I got this informational pamphlet from a thrift store years ago, anyone interested in me posting some of the content?  On a side note, anyone have suggestions for what I should be looking for to expand my scotch collection? Below is my current selection. Aberlour 12 Year Old ABERLOUR A'BUNADH Amrut Fusion Ardbeg 10 year old Ardbeg Uigeadail Ardmore Traditional Cask Auchentoshan 12 year Auchentoshan Three Wood Balvenie 12yr old double wood Bowmore Darkest 15yr Caol ila 12 Chivas Regal 18 Year Dalwhinnie 15 Year Old Glen Garioch Founders Reserve Glenfiddich 15 Year Old Glenlivet 16yr Nadurra Glenlivet 18yr old Glenmorangie Original GLENMORANGIE QUINTA RUBAN Highland Park 15 Year Old Johnnie Walker Black Label Jura Prophecy Jura Superstition KILCHOMAN MACHIR BAY ISLAY SINGLE MALT LAGAVULIN 16 YEARS OLD Laphroaig 10 Year Old Oban 14 Talisker 10 Year Old
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Jan 14, 2014 04:48
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door Door door posted:Well is Suntory known for its management/product development practices being especially good or bad? If you take their Yamazaki, Hakushu, and Hibiki whiskies as an example, they're quite aggressive with R&D and marketing. All three products enjoy many interesting expressions (Sherry cask, Bourbon cask, Mizunara cask, Rum cask, etc) as well as interesting special blends. The products are available, limitedly, in the US and, in my opinion, some of the finest whiskies available. I'm hoping their distribution will increase now with their holdings of Jim Beam. Overall, the Japanese are pretty savvy when running conglomerates. Suntory is basically analogous to Coca-Cola in the states. They product coffee, tea, soft drinks, beer, and whiskey. You can scarcely go anywhere in the country without seeing a Suntory sign. All in all, I think this is largely going to be a no-op. Jim Beam will continue being Jim Beam and Suntory will continue being Suntory. It just happens that the bottom line for Beam now reports to Suntory. If anything, I suspect we'll start seeing more experimental products out of Beam now that Suntory is involved. Like others have said, they aren't going to fire anyone here or move distilleries. More so than in other markets, liquor producers seem less keen on gutting everything and restructuring. They get the whole "don't fix what ain't broke" concept pretty well.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:46
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So, back on whisky news, I picked up a bottle of Bulleit Bourbon (Regular kind) after seeing it on sale at the Lic-Bo (LCBO). Drinking it straight I just get intensely spicy flavour and that's it. Am I doing it wrong? Would it be more of a cocktail bourbon instead of a straight bourbon?
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Jan 14, 2014 05:59
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bunnyofdoom posted:So, back on whisky news, I picked up a bottle of Bulleit Bourbon (Regular kind) after seeing it on sale at the Lic-Bo (LCBO). Drinking it straight I just get intensely spicy flavour and that's it. Am I doing it wrong? Would it be more of a cocktail bourbon instead of a straight bourbon? I drink it straight and quite like it. Tried it with some water?
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Jan 14, 2014 06:26
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rxcowboy posted:I've come to the realization that bourbon is pretty much the best value of any hard liquor on the market, because for 24 dollars I got 1.75l of a product that is versatile as hell. I can even cook with it! I cook with bourbon all the time. Mostly to make pan gravy for steaks and chicken and added to chili and stews. I've tried other whisk(e)ys and liquors but bourbon really makes the difference.
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Jan 14, 2014 08:27
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Devoz posted:I got this informational pamphlet from a thrift store years ago, anyone interested in me posting some of the content? Please post more. That looks amazing.
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Jan 14, 2014 08:28
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bunnyofdoom posted:So it looks like Suntory has bought Jim Bean Is it good or bad? I guess philosophically most people are going to dislike the fact that a few conglomerates control the industry, but that's the reality of the situation. I don't think it has a huge effect on any particular brand. It might give Suntory a bit of clout against competitors wanting to use Laphroaig and Ardmore in blends...
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Jan 14, 2014 09:05
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rufius posted:If you take their Yamazaki, Hakushu, and Hibiki whiskies as an example, they're quite aggressive with R&D and marketing. All three products enjoy many interesting expressions (Sherry cask, Bourbon cask, Mizunara cask, Rum cask, etc) as well as interesting special blends. The products are available, limitedly, in the US and, in my opinion, some of the finest whiskies available. I'm hoping their distribution will increase now with their holdings of Jim Beam. Honestly as long as they don't gently caress with Laphroaig I'll be able to endure whatever they do to the bourbon side. But if they do start cranking out more experimental bourbons that would be awesome. My only question is how do you get experimental with bourbon since you can't change the casks, just make experimental whiskey instead? I guess I'm just wary of experimentation in American whiskey since all we've gotten so far are those disgusting honey and cinnamon whiskies. I do hope it expands the distribution of Japanese whisky in the US though; wanna try me some peated Hakushu. kidsafe posted:Basically Beam Global had been looking for a buyer ever since Fortune Brands broke up. Diageo is interested in tequila (everything thinks its the next big thing) and bourbon, but they weren't willing to take on redundant rum, vodka, gin, etc. brands to do so. Pernod-Ricard is in the same boat, in fact many of Beam's current brands once belonged to them. Beyond that there's LVMH, Brown-Foreman, Suntory, etc. Suntory instantly becomes the second largest controller of American whiskey besides Brown-Foreman, and in terms of total capital, they should now be third behind Diageo and Pernod-Ricard. It's a comfy spot to be in, but who knows if they are done dealing? Like I said, Diageo really wants to grow their tequila and bourbon portfolio. They pursued Cuervo heavily and there were rumblings about Stitzel-Weller coming out of mothballs. I'm shocked Diageo doesn't own Cuervo. It just seemed like such a mass market liquor that I always assumed they already did.
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Jan 14, 2014 16:44
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door Door door posted:Honestly as long as they don't gently caress with Laphroaig I'll be able to endure whatever they do to the bourbon side. But if they do start cranking out more experimental bourbons that would be awesome. My only question is how do you get experimental with bourbon since you can't change the casks, just make experimental whiskey instead? I guess I'm just wary of experimentation in American whiskey since all we've gotten so far are those disgusting honey and cinnamon whiskies. I do hope it expands the distribution of Japanese whisky in the US though; wanna try me some peated Hakushu. Woodford Reserve has done some experimental bourbons and American whiskey over the past few years. They are all under the Master's Collection. Mainly the whiskey is finished in different wood casks after the initial aging. While technically not bourbon anymore, you end up with things such as "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey Finished in California Chardonnay Barrels". I would be happy to see more brands start experimenting with finishing the whiskey in different barrels.
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Jan 14, 2014 17:08
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Yea the bourbon classification is very limiting. To do any limited type of experimental runs, they have to go whiskey so they can make it short and sweet(i.e. Viable) Sort of like what woodford did this year. They made some one off unaged malt whiskey blends. Personally, i think its kind of gimmicky, sullying the name of a good bourbon by putting it on an unaged blended product...was it probably tasty? Likely. Did they sell a bunch of it? probably.
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Jan 14, 2014 17:15
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G1M posted:Yea the bourbon classification is very limiting. To do any limited type of experimental runs, they have to go whiskey so they can make it short and sweet(i.e. Viable) Sort of like what woodford did this year. They made some one off unaged malt whiskey blends. Personally, i think its kind of gimmicky, sullying the name of a good bourbon by putting it on an unaged blended product...was it probably tasty? Likely. Did they sell a bunch of it? probably. I really enjoyed some of these. Specifically the chardonay adged one you mentioned was very tasty, sonoma-cutrer i believe and the four grain was also quite tasty. Ive got a good friend with a family member who works for brown-forman, he gets the low down on a lot of these interesting products that are hard to find. Recently i have been given a bottle of angels envy. a very affordable price for such a smooth drinking bourbon. iirc its finished in port wine barrels to give it a complex/smooth finish
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Jan 14, 2014 17:25
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G1M posted:I really enjoyed some of these. Specifically the chardonay adged one you mentioned was very tasty, sonoma-cutrer i believe and the four grain was also quite tasty. Ive got a good friend with a family member who works for brown-forman, he gets the low down on a lot of these interesting products that are hard to find. If you like Angel's Envy, I highly suggest you try Big Bottom Whiskey Port Cask Finish. I have both in my collection, and I actually prefer the Big Bottom to Angel's Envy.
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Jan 14, 2014 18:44
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I've been sipping on some of the Crater Lake Rye and it's drat spicy with some other things going on I can't explain. It's worth a try if you can find it. Only 80 proof though so it's not gonna stretch very far. For some reason, Total Wine in NorCal has all the Bend Distillery products so it's easy for us to get. 
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Jan 14, 2014 19:22
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door Door door posted:Honestly as long as they don't gently caress with Laphroaig I'll be able to endure whatever they do to the bourbon side. But if they do start cranking out more experimental bourbons that would be awesome. My only question is how do you get experimental with bourbon since you can't change the casks, just make experimental whiskey instead? I guess I'm just wary of experimentation in American whiskey since all we've gotten so far are those disgusting honey and cinnamon whiskies. I do hope it expands the distribution of Japanese whisky in the US though; wanna try me some peated Hakushu. Well there's always cask finishing, barreling, mashbill composition. You can't gently caress with the actual parts that make Bourbon or Rye what they are but you can gently caress with how they are finished after they become Bourbon/Rye. Example would be Beam Signature Craft Brandy finish. It's the new Beam Signature Craft whiskey (an ultra-premium bourbon), that they then add a small amount of Brandy to. I think it's loving delicious and would buy it any day of the week and I don't even like most of the Beam bourbons that much. EDIT: Stupid loving spelling. rufius fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 19:38
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Devoz posted:
Maybe a Springbank or a Yamazaki? I was up on Speyside over Hogmanay and took some video of the new distillery Pernod Ricard are building on the old Imperial site. Here's the video I took on 2 Jan 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOIlHsGTeFs I'll upload the new one over the weekend and then link it here. Lots has happened, the new place looks enormous.
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Jan 14, 2014 19:50
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rufius posted:Well there's always cask finishing, barreling, mashbill composition. You can't gently caress with the actual parts that make Bourbon or Rye what they are but you can gently caress with how they are finished after they become Bourbon/Rye. Example would be Beam Signature Craft Brandy finish. It's the new Beam Signature Craft whiskey (an ultra-premium bourbon), that they then add a small amount of Brandy to. I think it's loving delicious and would buy it any day of the weak and I don't even like most of the Beam bourbons that much. thanks a lot rear end in a top hat, now I have to go to the liquor store tomorrow. I'm not a huge Beam fan either, but the Jim Beam Black is a really solid bourbon IMHO.
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Jan 14, 2014 21:38
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rufius posted:Well there's always cask finishing, barreling, mashbill composition. You can't gently caress with the actual parts that make Bourbon or Rye what they are but you can gently caress with how they are finished after they become Bourbon/Rye. Example would be Beam Signature Craft Brandy finish. It's the new Beam Signature Craft whiskey (an ultra-premium bourbon), that they then add a small amount of Brandy to. I think it's loving delicious and would buy it any day of the week and I don't even like most of the Beam bourbons that much. Ah, didn't realize you could get crazy once you're still past the three year mark and still call it bourbon. I would be very interested to see how a sweeter cask finish affects bourbon since it's already much sweeter than scotch; guess I'll keep an eye out for that new Beam.
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Jan 15, 2014 06:12
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Devoz posted:On a side note, anyone have suggestions for what I should be looking for to expand my scotch collection? Below is my current selection. door Door door posted:Honestly as long as they don't gently caress with Laphroaig I'll be able to endure whatever they do to the bourbon side.
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Jan 15, 2014 14:21
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Deleuzionist posted:Maybe Arran 14yo, Glenfarclas 15 or 21, or Glengoyne 17? What's the ACE hole?
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Jan 15, 2014 14:37
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global tetrahedron posted:What's the ACE hole? "Additional Cask Evolution" a.k.a. "This barrel seems pretty poo poo, lets bung it into a [random wine cask] for 6 months and see if that cheers it up a bit"
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Jan 15, 2014 15:08
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Deleuzionist posted:Laphroaig already went so deep down the ACE hole there's not much a new owner could do worse except maybe terminate the 10yo and CS product lines. Just checked out their website and wow they now have more NAS whiskies than Ardbeg. Never thought I'd see that. Even if everyone is pushing NAS because they want to get product out faster and charge more for it, I can't see anyone axing the 10 year or CS.
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Jan 15, 2014 17:14
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Yup, ACE is shorthand for finishing a whisky in another type of cask (or two or three). Sometimes it produces nice results like the PX-enhanced Lagavulin DE which has a very distinct smoked salmon edge to it, but most of the time what you get from using a 2nd cask is a flavour that is heavily dependent on the cask itself instead of the make and make-cask interaction over several years, which are where all the joy and uniqueness in older whiskies come from. The best example of why I'd diss the 'Froyg for this is their QA cask release, which is literally oodles of wood and vanilla sitting above all other flavours, which is what you could expect to happen to any whisky that's been in the same cask.door Door door posted:Just checked out their website and wow they now have more NAS whiskies than Ardbeg. Never thought I'd see that. Even if everyone is pushing NAS because they want to get product out faster and charge more for it, I can't see anyone axing the 10 year or CS. So that I wouldn't just rag on Laphroaig I have to say that their recent nordic countries-only release of whisky distilled in 1989 was absolutely amazing stuff. Too bad its price tag is over €200 which I couldn't justify to myself. Deleuzionist fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 15, 2014 |
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Jan 15, 2014 17:24
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Some of the early pages of the book:   
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Jan 15, 2014 19:24
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Deleuzionist posted:Yes, they'd have to be mad to axe the cornerstones of their product line. I put that there just because I had to think of a new low they could sink to from their current status. The sad thing about their product lineup is that apart from the age-statement bottles and the CS (which IIRC was age-stated at 10 too) none of the additions to their product line are essential or even particularly interesting. The only NAS I've had from them is the quarter cask which was good but just didn't have the punch the 10 year does. The cask strength is 10 years old and unchillfiltered, and pretty drat good. On a similar note I tried a Balvenie 14 year caribbean cask recently and it was just...blah. It had a nice deep rum sweetness but almost no real whisky flavor to speak of.
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Jan 15, 2014 20:48
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Deleuzionist posted:The best example of why I'd diss the 'Froyg for this is their QA cask release, which is literally oodles of wood and vanilla sitting above all other flavours, which is what you could expect to happen to any whisky that's been in the same cask. I'm sure QA Cask is somebody's favorite.
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Jan 16, 2014 02:42
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kidsafe posted:I'm sure QA Cask is somebody's favorite. door Door door posted:The only NAS I've had from them is the quarter cask which was good but just didn't have the punch the 10 year does. The cask strength is 10 years old and unchillfiltered, and pretty drat good. On a similar note I tried a Balvenie 14 year caribbean cask recently and it was just...blah. It had a nice deep rum sweetness but almost no real whisky flavor to speak of. Agreed on the Caribbean Cask. It's just not very impressive. Funnily enough, the 'boringly vanilla-flavoured' 12yo single barrel Balvenie is in its straightforwardness a good drink with some personality compared to the doublewoods, the caribbean or even the 21yo port. Devoz posted:Some of the early pages of the book: edit: this is now the second time I've lost a post to this thread on clicking 'submit reply' due to 'Specified thread not found in the live forums' 
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Jan 16, 2014 09:50
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Deleuzionist posted:Agreed on the Caribbean Cask. It's just not very impressive. Funnily enough, the 'boringly vanilla-flavoured' 12yo single barrel Balvenie is in its straightforwardness a good drink with some personality compared to the doublewoods, the caribbean or even the 21yo port. Is there any 15yr Single Barrel available where you're at? Around the same time the 12yr Single Barrel came out, the 15yr seems to have completely run out around here. I guess it's a good thing I bought 3 bottles of it a year ago when it was $65...Now it's $85-95 at the stockists you'd expect to have any. Maybe I'll call around some of the "liquor stores" instead of the boutiques. I really hope it's just a shortage rather than the end of the 15yr, but who knows what Balvenie has planned...
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Jan 16, 2014 11:00
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Dumb question, but is cask strength and higher ABV whisky desirable in part because you add a bit more water to it, making it last longer?
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Jan 16, 2014 12:08
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Armed Neutrality posted:Dumb question, but is cask strength and higher ABV whisky desirable in part because you add a bit more water to it, making it last longer?
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Jan 16, 2014 13:08
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kidsafe posted:Is there any 15yr Single Barrel available where you're at? Around the same time the 12yr Single Barrel came out, the 15yr seems to have completely run out around here. I guess it's a good thing I bought 3 bottles of it a year ago when it was $65...Now it's $85-95 at the stockists you'd expect to have any. Maybe I'll call around some of the "liquor stores" instead of the boutiques. I really hope it's just a shortage rather than the end of the 15yr, but who knows what Balvenie has planned... Armed Neutrality posted:Dumb question, but is cask strength and higher ABV whisky desirable in part because you add a bit more water to it, making it last longer? Single cask/barrel releases are usually (if not always, certainly should be) bottled at CS, and this combination of having only been in one maturation vessel and being cask proof makes them excellent material for learning about the distillery they are from, as a tasty single cask whisky that has a structure that's capable of withstanding a good amount of water without collapsing into vaguely whisky-ish wateriness represents IMO the top shelf of artisan-level craftsmanship in whisky. Deleuzionist fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 17:11
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[forgot a few pages]    More pages from the brochure..      
Devoz fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 04:21
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I was at my folks house recently and my father and I got stuck into the whisky,  (The Hart Brothers is a Bowmore blend) And while we are looking to have a bottle from all of the Islay distilleries, I thinking of branching out for his birthday and buying him a non Islay bottle. What are peoples reccomendations? Please describe them dont just name them. Devoz posted:On a side note, anyone have suggestions for what I should be looking for to expand my scotch collection? Below is my current selection. Bunnahabhain 12yo The Hart Brothers Bowmore Blend or the Chivas Royal Salute 21 yo. All great drops.
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Jan 17, 2014 08:21
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Are Islay scotches mostly like the smoky peaty whiskeys? I really like lagavulin and laphroaig. Are the other Islays similar?
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Jan 18, 2014 01:59
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Lowness 72 posted:Are Islay scotches mostly like the smoky peaty whiskeys? I really like lagavulin and laphroaig. Are the other Islays similar?
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Jan 18, 2014 06:32
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Ardbeg, Caol Ila, Kilcholman and Bunnahabhain hit those same strongly peated smoky notes, each in their own way. Bruichladdich tends to be more toned down (apart from their super-peaty premium priced Octomore) and Bowmore's current lineup is probably the second easiest, not very bold Islay. It is hard to upstage the Lagavulin though. Tangentially, I'd no longer recommend the 12yo Lagavulin although I do like it, because in AD 2013 Diageo decided that mankind was ready to pay £80 per bottle. 
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Jan 18, 2014 06:40
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