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They're good for chilling it down a little bit, but by no means will they make the drink ice cold -- they warm up very quickly. I feel like they also impart a little bit of a taste to the whiskey, too.
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May 16, 2018 15:55
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Hopped on the Mellow Corn train for $11 plus tax. I like it, especially at that price and proof. Had it neat and on ice, then on ice again with only a couple cubes. Too much dilution killed the flavor for me. Honestly I thought the flavor was good neat; didn’t notice much of a burn until the finish.
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May 16, 2018 20:40
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zmcnulty posted:No they don't... Hibiki 12 was discontinued in November 2015. It was replaced by the NAS Harmony. I suppose there may be a few bottles still in secondary but it's not coming from Suntory anyway. There were a bunch of articles (mostly blogspam) about it being discontinued but it has been available off and on at various places, including Costco, at least through 2017. It might be completely done at this point, though. The NAS version is definitely a pale immitation, and a "Blender's Choice" NAS edition will probably just be largely the same thing with another label slapped on it. Seems that there's almost nothing cool or unique coming out of Japan anymore.
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May 18, 2018 01:01
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By chance, I happen to be in Kyoto today and just had some Hibiki 17 for what I now think is a suspiciously-cheap Y1600. But I’m Australian so my barometer for alcohol pricing is completely busted. Sad to hear it’s now being discontinued. I’m going to go back to sample the Hakushu 12, but I also noticed they’re serving a Chivas Regal Mizunara. I’m not a huge fan of Chivas, but the Glendalough 13 Mizunara Finish is my current fav whiskey back home. Is there any hope the Mizunara finish is enough to elevate the Chivas? Is it worth trying for the novelty factor alone?
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May 19, 2018 14:07
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rohan posted:By chance, I happen to be in Kyoto today and just had some Hibiki 17 for what I now think is a suspiciously-cheap Y1600. But I’m Australian so my barometer for alcohol pricing is completely busted. Sad to hear it’s now being discontinued. Wow, I wasn’t aware of the Chivas or the Glendalough Mizunara finish, be really interested to hear what you have to say about them. Out to dinner the other night we had Mizunara leaves as part of a dish. I quizzed the chef about it and it is one and the same Japanese oak. He gave me some good leads for getting the leaves from local suppliers (Melbourne), I think it’d be interesting to pair the leaves with whisky aged in Mizunara casks.
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May 19, 2018 14:18
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 Melbourne crewTo be honest I’m not sure what I can say about the Glendalough Mizunara, as I’ve never gotten around to trying the regular 13yo so can’t compare it to much. (I’m also very much a beginner in whiskey.) I think, from memory, I’d describe it as having a long, honeyed finish. I don’t believe it’s on the menu (it’s certainly not online) but I have it at Buck Mulligan’s in Northcote. I’ll let you know how the Chivas compares if I make it back to that bar in the next week or so.
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May 19, 2018 14:51
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Re: Mellow Corn Chat I've always been a little perplexed that a proper corn whiskey isn't a staple of american bars the way bourbons are. From a distillery standpoint, it's seems like a no-brainer that if you're making bourbon, rye or another whiskey that requires a new-char oak barrel, you might as well have a corn whiskey program to use the barrels a second or third time even. The only thing I can figure is that there's such a hot trade in aftermarket bourbon barrels to scotch distilleries that it makes more sense to just move them out of the rick-house as soon as they're dumped. Berkshire Mountain Distilling makes a good one if you're in New England, but otherwise it's hard to argue with Mellow Corn.
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May 20, 2018 03:29
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I have a feeling the barrels are really valuable. Bourbon barrel aged beer is all the rage now. Funky Buddha (an awesome Florida brewery) makes a bunch now, including a mint julep beer from High West barrels (seriously, their barrel-aged stuff is incredible, and not all is from whiskey barrels). Funky Buddha only uses a barrel once after they buy it. A tour guide claimed he suggested to management that they sell their used barrels for $400 to people who want to use them as furniture, and the response was, “We’d like to recoup more of our investment than that.”
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May 20, 2018 04:05
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Do we have a tequila/mezcal/agave-type spirits thread? Is it kosher to discuss here?
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May 20, 2018 04:18
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Enigma posted:I have a feeling the barrels are really valuable.
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May 20, 2018 04:44
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I think there was one but it died from disuse. I'd probably put it in the cocktail thread rather than the whiskey thread if I had to choose?
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May 20, 2018 04:44
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Infinite Karma posted:That tour guide was full of poo poo. New charred oak barrels are about $400, and the used ones from bourbon distilling (so the kind they're using for beer) are significantly cheaper, usually less than $200. It's all the better that the barrels are cheap, barrel aged beer is awesome. Well gently caress that guy then for trying to piss on my dream of living inside a used Four Roses barrel like a whiskey-soaked Oscar the Grouch. I toured the brewery’s barrel aging room and holy poo poo if that wasn’t the best thing I’ve ever smelled. They literally have an altar in that room where people get married.
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May 20, 2018 05:00
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Lowness 72 posted:Do we have a tequila/mezcal/agave-type spirits thread? Is it kosher to discuss here? Maybe it's time to make this a more general spirits thread? The rum thread petered out earlier this year, and I don't know that an agave thread would fare much better. Incorporating the cocktail thread would be tougher, given this thread's focus on sipping neat, but people definitely do that with nicer tequilas.
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May 20, 2018 05:05
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Enigma posted:I have a feeling the barrels are really valuable. The requirement that bourbon be aged in virgin oak creates a ridiculous surplus of used barrels that have greatly reduced resale value. It's why the Scotch whisky industry transitioned away from sherry butts...poo poo's vastly cheaper.
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May 20, 2018 05:28
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Got excited to see Yamasaki 12 in a shop window while traveling in Washington DC but man those seemed like high prices. The thing is...with this Japanese whisky bubble, maybe this is the new normal and this is actually a cheap price? I’m confused. 
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May 20, 2018 06:39
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May 20, 2018 06:47
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Those are money laundering politician prices. Each of those is roughly 2x what I can find them for locally.
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May 20, 2018 06:47
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Enigma posted:I have a feeling the barrels are really valuable. The brewers market for used barrels is tiny compared to the one for scotch distilleries. I've toured 18 distilleries when I was in Scotland last year and I've heard a few different numbers for the cost of a Bourbon barrel but the numbers ranged somewhere between $25 and $100.
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May 20, 2018 08:23
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TobinHatesYou posted:Those are money laundering politician prices. Each of those is roughly 2x what I can find them for locally. I need to find a bottle of Yamazaki 12, please help
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May 20, 2018 10:48
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Speaking of aging things in other things' barrels, I just saw an ad for this: Anyone tried it? Apparently it's given 30 days in Tabasco barrels that still contain some sauce residue, then blended with a Tabasco sauce distillate. Seems gimmicky as hell, and I have trouble believing it's any good, but maybe I'm just not keeping an open mind.
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May 20, 2018 10:53
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I'd give that a go, looks fun. Notice how it doesn't say whiskey on the bottle...
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May 20, 2018 10:57
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I found a scan of the label, and whisky is in there, but not very prominently at all. The only mention of age I've seen so far is how long the sauce and then the spirit sit in the Tabasco barrel (three years and 30 days, respectively), so I assume it's a pretty young whisky.
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May 20, 2018 11:18
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Toast Museum posted:I found a scan of the label, and whisky is in there, but not very prominently at all. The only mention of age I've seen so far is how long the sauce and then the spirit sit in the Tabasco barrel (three years and 30 days, respectively), so I assume it's a pretty young whisky. I think that's a pretty standard age for Dickel. e: ah yeah it says made with whisky e2: it's also 35% ABV which is below the legal limit for whiskey spankmeister fucked around with this message at 11:27 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 11:25
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So, digging into some Wikipedia articles on American whiskey regulations, it sounds like the low proof is the only thing keeping it from being called a blended whiskey. The label specifies that it's made with Tennessee whiskey, and if I understand correctly, that implies straight bourbon. Straight bourbon has to be aged at least four years to skip the age statement, but I don't know whether that's true of something made with straight bourbon. Well, that clears things up  Edit: the blend consisting of more than 80% Tabasco distillate would also disqualify it from being called a blended whiskey. I guess that's possible, depending on how much neutral spirit is added on that side of things. Toast Museum fucked around with this message at 11:45 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 11:41
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Dickel is poo poo anyway. I don't know what they do to their whiskey to make it taste like harbor freight carb cleaner but they should stop.
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May 21, 2018 09:32
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Mandalay posted:I need to find a bottle of Yamazaki 12, please help I got a bottle here in PA. Honestly not worth the $80 that I paid. Last week I had a pour of Pappy 15 to celebrate a special occasion while I was visiting Louisville. A year ago I had a pour of Pappy 20 which was fantastic. At home I have a bottle of Weller 12 that I love (especially for $30). The Pappy 15 was ok, but not sure I'd pay $50 again. Honestly preferred one of the 4R Single Barrels I also got to drink.
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May 21, 2018 13:39
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TobinHatesYou posted:Those are money laundering politician prices. Each of those is roughly 2x what I can find them for locally. Yeah those are DC prices. I work in DC and there’s a small store near my office with High West MWND and Yippee Ki-Yay for $250, Weller 12 for $450, Lot B for $500, and all the rest of the Pappys for $HAHAHAHAHA It’s basically secondary prices in a store.
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May 21, 2018 14:28
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Mandalay posted:Got excited to see Yamasaki 12 in a shop window while traveling in Washington DC but man those seemed like high prices. The thing is...with this Japanese whisky bubble, maybe this is the new normal and this is actually a cheap price? I’m confused. I'm impressed that they managed to price Yamazaki 18 so high that it sits on the shelf. Those other prices are even worse!
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May 21, 2018 17:03
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Mandalay posted:Got excited to see Yamasaki 12 in a shop window while traveling in Washington DC but man those seemed like high prices. The thing is...with this Japanese whisky bubble, maybe this is the new normal and this is actually a cheap price? I’m confused. Was that P street liquors a few blocks west of Dupont Circle? My go-to for obscure stuff. I don't buy the hyped and price-jacked stuff they have but I think it's fine, supply and demand after all.
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May 21, 2018 17:09
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I bought a handle of Costco Irish whiskey while I was out buying some stuff for a food drive today. If you think about it, I'm kind of a hero. Probably going to be relying on cheap stuff from here until October. This thread has already given me plenty to go by, so I feel alright. I just wish it was easier to get variety. As a beer nerd, you can satisfy your cheapness and simultaneously get a good mix of things by buying variety packs. Wish there was some way to do that with whiskey. There's so much I want to try but it's so much more economical to buy big.
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May 21, 2018 18:59
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Vox Nihili posted:I'm impressed that they managed to price Yamazaki 18 so high that it sits on the shelf. Those other prices are even worse! I think I paid $30 for Nikka from the barrel two years ago while visiting Hong Kong. and I've seen Coffey grain on shelf for $60 a few days ago in MA.
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May 21, 2018 19:05
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Toast Museum posted:So, digging into some Wikipedia articles on American whiskey regulations, it sounds like the low proof is the only thing keeping it from being called a blended whiskey. The label specifies that it's made with Tennessee whiskey, and if I understand correctly, that implies straight bourbon. Straight bourbon has to be aged at least four years to skip the age statement, but I don't know whether that's true of something made with straight bourbon. You are correct. Basically they can claim "made with whiskey" but the combination of the low proof and the use of a non-grain mash (in this case, Tobasco) as a flavoring agent means it can't even be called "Flavored Whiskey." A few years ago I was working on a whiskey-like mash bill that used maple syrup as an adjunct to the grain. Not much - just enough to let some of the aromatics come through in the distillate. But the TTB flatly told me it could never be called whiskey, and they wouldn't even let me call it flavored whiskey because the maple went in the mash instead of the finished whiskey as a flavoring agent. So that project is shelved.
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May 21, 2018 21:40
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There are a few local distilleries around here that have some "spirits" that are distilled from finished beers. Because of the hops, they can't call them whiskey
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May 21, 2018 22:13
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Weltlich posted:You are correct. Basically they can claim "made with whiskey" but the combination of the low proof and the use of a non-grain mash (in this case, Tobasco) as a flavoring agent means it can't even be called "Flavored Whiskey." A few years ago I was working on a whiskey-like mash bill that used maple syrup as an adjunct to the grain. Not much - just enough to let some of the aromatics come through in the distillate. But the TTB flatly told me it could never be called whiskey, and they wouldn't even let me call it flavored whiskey because the maple went in the mash instead of the finished whiskey as a flavoring agent. So that project is shelved. Would the Tabasco be considered part of the mash bill? I assume the residue in the Tabasco barrel wouldn't count, since that's not part of the distillation process. Does the source material for the non-straight-whiskey spirit (Tabasco sauce distillate, in this case) count as part of the mash bill? Either way, I assumed that the "flavorings" bit in "un-aged grain distillates, grain neutral spirits, flavorings, and colorings" would encompass Tabasco sauce distillate, but I guess not. Related, do these various terms carry all the same meaning and baggage when they are used in the context of made with? e.g. if a product says that it's "made with straight rye whiskey", and there's no mention of age, does that imply that the product is made with straight rye that is at least four years old, as it would for a bottle that was just straight rye?
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May 21, 2018 22:54
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Toast Museum posted:Would the Tabasco be considered part of the mash bill? I assume the residue in the Tabasco barrel wouldn't count, since that's not part of the distillation process. Does the source material for the non-straight-whiskey spirit (Tabasco sauce distillate, in this case) count as part of the mash bill? The mash bill in an American whiskey can only contain grains (+yeast +water)
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May 22, 2018 02:53
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Toast Museum posted:Would the Tabasco be considered part of the mash bill? I assume the residue in the Tabasco barrel wouldn't count, since that's not part of the distillation process. Does the source material for the non-straight-whiskey spirit (Tabasco sauce distillate, in this case) count as part of the mash bill? In this case the tabasco is def. not in the mash bill. I'm not even entirely sure what "tabasco mash" is. Is it the liquid drawn off of a vat of fermenting peppers? Is it literally mashed pepper juice? Who knows. My digression was more to the point of "they're not kidding around when they say it's only grain, water, and yeast" to be called whiskey. Anything else and your product gets banished to the shelf in the liquor store that's got all the weird stuff that no one knows what to do with, and that's where brands goes to die. I'm guessing they did this with the Dickel name in hopes that it would get shelved with whiskey anyway. And if it says "made with straight rye whiskey" then by law it must contain straight rye whiskey with all that entails (51%+ rye grain mash, stored 4 years in new char american oak barrels.) How much straight rye is going to be in the product is totally up for debate, though. And I think you mentioned earlier "blended whiskey" - if you ever see "blended straight rye (bourbon, whatever)" it means that all the whiskies that went into that bottle must have been at least 4 years old.
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May 22, 2018 04:09
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Honestly I'm glad those laws exist. Yes it keeps distillers from experimenting and innovating with their ingredients and aging, but it protects the consumer from adulterated product, which I'm sure was a major issue back in the day.
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May 22, 2018 06:36
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It's a double edged sword because for example in Scotland similar laws have been used against Compass Box when they were too open with what they made their product of. But overall I think it's a good thing.
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May 22, 2018 06:38
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spankmeister posted:Honestly I'm glad those laws exist. Yes it keeps distillers from experimenting and innovating with their ingredients and aging, but it protects the consumer from adulterated product, which I'm sure was a major issue back in the day. spankmeister posted:It's a double edged sword because for example in Scotland similar laws have been used against Compass Box when they were too open with what they made their product of. But overall I think it's a good thing. Generally speaking, I think most distillers are with you on that. Prior to labeling laws, lots of spirits were adulterated with all sorts of awful stuff. But, though the Compass Box situation is also why we would rather just have some sort of "honesty in labeling" regulations - because even with the restrictive labeling regs that exist, there's plenty of ways to game the system. Adulteration is one thing, but there's a big patch of ground between that and "Here's what is in this bottle, honest and for true." For example, if you make a mash with 51% corn, 49% whatever else, distill it, then run it through a wooden pipe that's been newly charred inside, straight to a bottling machine, you can legally call that "Bourbon." It can't be straight bourbon because it didn't spend two years, but the mere act of sliding across some new-char oak legally transformed it from moonshine or "grain spirit" to both bourbon and whiskey. On the other hand it has kept "light whiskey" from being a commercially viable category. By using previously used barrels (like scotch or Irish whiskey) a distiller can really fine tune the flavor of a finished product. They can use wine barrels, beer barrels, barrels that had other spirits in them - and in the end get a really fabulous product. But, if they do then they're saddled with the designation of "light whiskey," and most consumers don't even know what that is. It's an archaic category that was made up to let American producers make a whiskey that could compete with cheap scotch and Irish whiskey back in the middle of last century. But to a modern consumer, it sounds suspiciously close to "light beer" which is marketing poison. There's a lot of distillers who'd like to experiment with making "light whiskey" but don't just because they don't want to the battle of having to fight misconceptions. **edit** I mixed up the timeframes between "straight" whiskey and whiskey "bottled in bond." Straight whiskey only needs to spend two years on new char oak. Bottled in bond needs to spend four years, be bottled at 100 proof, and be taken from the distillate of "one season". The "Bottled in Bond" act is important because it was the first true whiskey regulation in the US, and was passed as a direct response to people putting things like isopropyl alcohol, mineral spirits, and all manner of other horrible stuff into whiskey before shipping it west on the newly built transcontinental railroad. Because if some rube got sick in Denver, who cares? Weltlich fucked around with this message at 15:24 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 15:10
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Weltlich posted:I'm not even entirely sure what "tabasco mash" is. George Dickel Website posted:We rest George Dickel for 30 days in ex-TABASCO® barrels that still contain some residual aged TABASCO® pepper mash, allowing spice & flavor imparted on the wood to finish our whisky. We then take TABASCO® Brand Pepper Sauce and distill it to create an essence, which we then carefully blend together to create George Dickel Tabasco Brand Barrel Finish. The result is a deliciously smooth whisky with a spicy finish. I think the "residual aged TABASCO® pepper mash" must just be the slurry of peppers and salt that's left when they dump the barrel of Tabasco sauce. Squished-up ("mashed") peppers, not an actual grain mash where starch conversion takes place. Whether deliberate or not, there's an impression created that peppers are somehow part of the whiskey mash, thanks to the ambiguous nature of the English language. Note that the whiskey is created well before the 30-day rest in the barrels that formerly held the Tabasco pepper ferment. Then additional Tabasco sauce is distilled (but not, I would guess, in a whiskey still) to create an essence, which is added.
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May 22, 2018 15:22
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