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Seconding the Nikka Coffey Grain (or Malt, I liked both, Malt was a little heavier and a tad less sweet, though still sweet) recco. Thirding or whatevering the Redbreast; I've been primarily a bourbon/rye drinker for years but recently discovered Irish whiskeys, especially Redbreast. The Lustau and the Cask Strength are both delicious if you can find them but even the "regular" 12-year is really nice and super smooth.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:27
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Imo, the nikka coffey whisky's are not worth the money.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:59
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spankmeister posted:Imo, the nikka coffey whisky's are not worth the money. Yeah definitely. There's just not a whole lot going on for the price
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Oct 6, 2018 13:48
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spankmeister posted:Imo, the nikka coffey whisky's are not worth the money. I would agree, but I haven't actually been willing to make the outlay to try them. I've really been enjoying this Deanston Bordeaux Cask single malt. Nine years old, cask strength, just super tasty with thick layers of fruit and malt flavor packed in. Costs about as much as a Nikka at ~$65. Hadn't tried Deanston before but they seem to do a very good job.
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Oct 6, 2018 20:27
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Purely anecdotal, but I bought and drank a bottle of Nikka Coffey Grain about a year or two ago. The first few pours were pretty great. Lots of tropical fruit and cinnamon. Once there was a bit of room for it to breath in the bottle it was okay at best. It mellowed out A LOT. I have had no desire to get another bottle.
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Oct 7, 2018 01:37
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I've been away from this thread and whisky drinking for too long! I just found out my boss is a whisky guy, which I didn't expect, so we've started training samples of whisky. He bought these little 2 oz glass bottles off of amazon and we are just going to start trading samples back and forth, I highly recommend it, it's a great way to try new whisky! Round 1, he sent: Lot 40 canadian rye Russel's reserve single barrel maker's 46 Round 1, I sent: Jameson 12 (which I just found out they don't make anymore  ) Redbreast 12 Balvenie 14 Caribbean Cask I'm also really sad to see Blanton's and Eagle Rare are basically impossible to find now, wth Buffalo Trace?
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Oct 14, 2018 06:29
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So I just bottled some bourbon that I’ve been aging in a small barrel for 6 months and I’m looking to age another batch but I’m not sure where to go. I’m having trouble finding spirits to use, such as single malt, and I’ve read about aging wines (Chardonnay, port or sherry), Gin, or mixes like manhattans or Rob Roy. The bourbon came out perfect, it’s a Wasmunds barrel from Copper Fox Distillery and I used their bourbon mash. I want to keep this going but I’m not sure if I should do another batch of bourbon or single malt or move to something else. Any ideas?
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Oct 14, 2018 20:36
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Barrel-aged Rusty Nail is one of my favorite things in life.
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Oct 15, 2018 00:03
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Douchebag posted:So I just bottled some bourbon that I’ve been aging in a small barrel for 6 months and I’m looking to age another batch but I’m not sure where to go. Just bear in mind that if you go to gin, or another cocktail with a botanical element, there's never turning back. Are you wanting to start with a white spirit, or just refine something that's already aged?
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Oct 15, 2018 00:06
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Weltlich posted:Just bear in mind that if you go to gin, or another cocktail with a botanical element, there's never turning back. I'd like to keep it where I can continually age a spirit or refine something already aged. I'd rather not ruin the barrel by aging something that reduces my options in the future.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:13
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Douchebag posted:I'd like to keep it where I can continually age a spirit or refine something already aged. I'd rather not ruin the barrel by aging something that reduces my options in the future. In that case, stick to whiskey, brandy, and rum. Each of these will generally be complementary and lend character to whatever comes after. How big is the barrel, and what are the conditions like where it's stored?
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Oct 15, 2018 16:47
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Weltlich posted:In that case, stick to whiskey, brandy, and rum. Each of these will generally be complementary and lend character to whatever comes after. Holds 2 750ml’s and a little more (I topped off my first batch with water to fill it). I keep it on my small bar in my dining room. Live in NJ, so fair amounts of humidity for half the year or so but my condo stays between 68-74 most of the year. And thanks for the help and advice, I kind of want a few barrels going at once.
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Oct 15, 2018 23:44
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I would definitely pour a $33 handle of Wild Turkey 101 in there for fun. Anything that comes in 1.75L bottles should be an economical option (and honestly, you probably don't want to ruin something super fancy by home-barreling it). A handle of Bulliet Rye might be fun, too. It'll probably be tough to get white dog to come out tasting decent, but maybe a white rum would be fun. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 20:34
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Vox Nihili posted:I would definitely pour a $33 handle of Wild Turkey 101 in there for fun. Anything that comes in 1.75L bottles should be an economical option (and honestly, you probably don't want to ruin something super fancy by home-barreling it). A handle of Bulliet Rye might be fun, too. Pretty much. In the timeframes for a barrel that size, I wouldn't start with anything white other than rum or possibly a really good eau d'vie. Angel's share on barrels under 30gal is straight up murder.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:42
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I'm sure a connoisseur can taste the difference every time, but for loving around at home, are charred oak sticks/spirals any good for infusions, or is there no point?
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Oct 16, 2018 21:45
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They have their merits, just don't expect them to replicate a barrel. They can add some character to a spirit that is otherwise bland and/or uninteresting, but they won't turn white dog into fine whiskey. They can sort of give a preview of what you might expect a barrel to do to a white spirit, and I have my cooper supply me with 1" cubes of the same oak he uses to build the barrels with a #3 char on them. When I've got a new white spirit that I'm curious to see what sort of maturation trajectory it might take, I'll toss it into a pint jar and put a couple of those cubes in it, then put it in the lab closet for a couple of months. It'll give me a fair idea of where the spirit will go in the barrel, but I can't stress enough that there is no substitute for time in the cask. Edit: If you're going to fool around at home, find some non-oak woods to play with. Toasted Ash, Maple, Black Birch, Cherry, Pecan, Hickory, etc. These will get you some really interesting flavors that you really aren't going to be able to get on the liquor store shelf. Weltlich fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 00:41
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Cool I think I’ll go with the Bulleit and let it sit until around Super Bowl time. Should be fun to break that out for tasting at a party.
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Oct 17, 2018 01:20
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If you really want to make cheap white liquor taste good infuse it with some dates for a while, or with nitrogen for an hour.
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Oct 17, 2018 01:47
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Weltlich posted:They have their merits, just don't expect them to replicate a barrel. They can add some character to a spirit that is otherwise bland and/or uninteresting, but they won't turn white dog into fine whiskey. They can sort of give a preview of what you might expect a barrel to do to a white spirit, and I have my cooper supply me with 1" cubes of the same oak he uses to build the barrels with a #3 char on them. When I've got a new white spirit that I'm curious to see what sort of maturation trajectory it might take, I'll toss it into a pint jar and put a couple of those cubes in it, then put it in the lab closet for a couple of months. It'll give me a fair idea of where the spirit will go in the barrel, but I can't stress enough that there is no substitute for time in the cask. My interest is less about DIY whiskey and more about aging cocktails or adding depth to infusions, so this seems like a reasonable option that won't kill my wallet. Is it just regulatory issues keeping those other woods out of commercial products, or is there more to it? Either way, any tips about the characteristics of those woods and what they're suited to?
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Oct 17, 2018 02:18
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Toast Museum posted:My interest is less about DIY whiskey and more about aging cocktails or adding depth to infusions, so this seems like a reasonable option that won't kill my wallet. It's a combination of regulation, risk aversion, and lack of institutional knowledge Since this is the whiskey thread, I'll stick to whiskey, but those first two reasons go hand-in-hand. Nearly all categories of whiskey as defined by the TTB specify some version of oak barrel, from new-char virgin oak for most of the "prestige" classes (such as bourbon, rye, etc) and less often used oak barrels for things like corn whiskey or light whiskey. It's baked into the definition, so any deviation from this by a distillery risks disqualifying the spirit they just made from being a whiskey. Make a 51% corn mash with 24% rye and 25% wheat, but stored it in a maple barrel? The TTB might let you call it whiskey, but they for sure will never let you put an age statement on it. You could age it in that maple barrel for 25 years, but you would quite literally never be able to tell anyone that. When you can't even tell the truth about what you did, there's little incentive to innovate. The third reason is an equally big hurdle. Even if you did want to try something like aging in a maple barrel, good luck finding a cooperage that is both willing and skilled enough to make one for you. There's documents from the 1800's of barrels made of all sorts of woods, but when the TTB re-wrote the regs post-prohibition, they specified "oak" for nearly everything, because that's what the surviving distilleries were using. So, without demand for anything else, all coopers have been working with for the past 80 years has been oak. Cooperage is like next-level carpentry - never underestimate how difficult building a barrel that stays liquid-tight is. Every wood is different and good barrel makers are pickier about the wood they use than furniture makers are. I've found one cooper who is skilled and willing to work in other woods for me, and I don't give his name out. Some basic characteristics of other woods I use: Sugar Maple: at a #2 to #3 char will impart some butter-toffee and caramel notes to the spirits. Not maple syrup like, but more caramel-creme / butter toffee. Ash: at a #1-#2 char will give notes of marshmallow and toasted coconut. Darker chars will start to get smokier notes, like the back end of a good scotch, but too dark will start to get acrid. Pecan: #3 will give a really nice, sweet but fairly bold flavor to a spirit. Sort of like a sweeter oak. Cherry: One of my favorites - a lighter toast will give more fruit notes to a spirit, but a darker toast will impart more spice. I generally go with #3 for a balanced sweetness with some dried fruit, mincemeat, and spice on the finish. Black Birch: This one is new to me, but I have high hopes for it. I haven't withdrawn any of the spirit for sampling yet, but on the nose it has a pronounced "mixed berry pie" aroma at #3 and #5 char. Notes of biscuit crust, blueberry, blackberry, and raspberry. At a #1 char, I get a little of the berry pie aroma, but it's starting to get some wintergreen/rootbeer creeping into it. Ask me again in a couple of months for how it turns out.
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Oct 17, 2018 02:58
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That is a really cool hobby and now I kind of want to find a cooper to make me some barrels.
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Oct 17, 2018 04:27
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Weltlich posted:Ash: at a #1-#2 char will give notes of marshmallow and toasted coconut. Darker chars will start to get smokier notes, like the back end of a good scotch, but too dark will start to get acrid. Sounds like this is toasted marshmallow whiskey.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:18
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Good lord I'm hot and bothered by the idea of "whiskey" aged in an alternative wood. Also yay, for some reason, local fancygrocery had Lagavulin 16 at $35 off. I have no idea why but yay!
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Oct 18, 2018 00:24
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Inspector 34 posted:That is a really cool hobby and now I kind of want to find a cooper to make me some barrels. If it was a hobby at least I'd have a better excuse for being poor! Ben Nevis posted:Sounds like this is toasted marshmallow whiskey. Honestly I find it works better with rum than whiskey, at least at low char levels. Pecan would be amazing as a whiskey-barrel though, as well as cherry. As it is a rum aged on cherry wood basically tastes like a good bourbon.
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Oct 18, 2018 01:15
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Beachcomber Liquors in Englewood FL has Blanton's and Buffalo Trace. Or had. I may have taken the last bottles. But they had some other rarities: Whistlepig Boss Hog, Blood Oath, Yamazaki 18, Elmer T Lee, Kelt Petra, Hennessy Richard, Pappy 23, some 1986 vintage armagnac, and some others behind the shelf I can't remember. I've been wanting to try more ryes and picked up a bottle of Rough Rider Big Stick. I like the taste but it's pretty rough. 
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Oct 18, 2018 01:17
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The US rules mostly have to do with labeling products as "whiskey" or subcategories thereof, right? Could you say "85% Corn/15% rye mash spirit aged 8 years in freshly-charred maple barrels" for example?
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Oct 18, 2018 01:25
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Vox Nihili posted:The US rules mostly have to do with labeling products as "whiskey" or subcategories thereof, right? Could you say "85% Corn/15% rye mash spirit aged 8 years in freshly-charred maple barrels" for example? Nope. I could say "Whiskey distilled from a 85% Corn/15% rye mash." I might be able to say "rested in a maple barrel," but the jury's still out on that. I would absolutely NEVER be able to say "aged" in an maple barrel, and I'd never be able to say "8 years" or any other age statement. I can say "finished in a maple barrel cask" if it's been in a straight oak cask to start with, though. The only loophole I've identified about the whole "not allowed to give an age statement" bit is that on our website, I can tell you when the batch of whiskey in that bottle went into a cask, when it came out, when it was transferred to a maple (or whatever) cask, and when it came out of that cask. But the consumer will have to do the math for themselves. asciidic posted:Beachcomber Liquors in Englewood FL has Blanton's and Buffalo Trace. Or had. I may have taken the last bottles. But they had some other rarities: Yamazaki 18 Get back in the car. Weltlich fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 01:31
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Weltlich posted:Nope. I could say "Whiskey distilled from a 85% Corn/15% rye mash." I might be able to say "rested in a maple barrel," but the jury's still out on that. I would absolutely NEVER be able to say "aged" in an maple barrel, and I'd never be able to say "8 years" or any other age statement. "Extra-Anejo Maple-Finished Corn Juice"
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Oct 18, 2018 01:38
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Big Oak has some deep roots, it seems.
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Oct 18, 2018 01:40
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Japanese distilleries have worked with cedar for a couple decades now, cedar casks are in Hibiki 12 for example. Cedar casks have been used since like the early 14th century for sake (albeit for transport, rather than maturation). The independent cooperage Ariake Sangyo also supposedly has customers now ordering casks of maple, walnut, cherry, and cypress. Japanese law basically allows anything using distilled grain to be called whisky, age or wood does not matter. Toast Museum posted:I'm sure a connoisseur can taste the difference every time, but for loving around at home, are charred oak sticks/spirals any good for infusions, or is there no point? username and post content combo!
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Oct 18, 2018 02:09
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zmcnulty posted:Japanese distilleries have worked with cedar for a couple decades now, cedar casks are in Hibiki 12 for example. Cedar casks have been used since like the early 14th century for sake (albeit for transport, rather than maturation). That's interesting to know if I ever get into the Japanese market. Ideally that's what I want to happen here as well. Vox Nihili posted:Big Oak has some deep roots, it seems. I think Ardbeg (or maybe it was Jura) did a series on different species of oak. American, French, Hungarian, Pin Oak, Live Oak, Chestnut, etc etc. It was pretty amazing that even among oak, and otherwise identical barrel construction, the species will have a radically different effect on the nose and flavor of a whiskey.
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Oct 18, 2018 02:32
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asciidic posted:Beachcomber Liquors in Englewood FL has Blanton's and Buffalo Trace. Or had. I may have taken the last bottles. But they had some other rarities: Whistlepig Boss Hog, Blood Oath, Yamazaki 18, Elmer T Lee, Kelt Petra, Hennessy Richard, Pappy 23, some 1986 vintage armagnac, and some others behind the shelf I can't remember. Nice find! I can get normal Buffalo Trace pretty easily right now, but eagle rate is a bit tricky to find and Blanton's is non-existent. All the other more prestigious BT products are basically impossible to find too. I did see a bottle of Stagg Jr at another shop, but I just don't know if I care for the super high proof stuff(I think it's like 134 proof. I have had a bunch of conversations with the local liquor store manager so hopefully he will keep an eye out. They must have just got sent eagle rare in, and they still have it priced at $28.99! As a backup, my buddies uncle owns a liquor store so he's going to put in a good word for me.
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Oct 18, 2018 22:44
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I got a little taste of a 43 year old Invergordon at my local last night. It wasn’t bad by any stretch, but after that long in bourbon barrels, it basically just tasted like bourbon. From just the smell I would have guessed it was just bourbon. In the end, went with a Benrinnes for a third the price.
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Oct 19, 2018 14:44
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good jovi posted:I got a little taste of a 43 year old Invergordon at my local last night. It wasn’t bad by any stretch, but after that long in bourbon barrels, it basically just tasted like bourbon. From just the smell I would have guessed it was just bourbon. In the end, went with a Benrinnes for a third the price. It probably has more to do with the fact that it's a grain whisky and as such will have a large percentage of corn in it's mashbill
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Oct 19, 2018 15:44
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Is it possible to get a bad bottle? I bought a new bottle of Redbreast 12 but it tastes the way I remember the bottom of the last bottle tasting: astringent, woody, and without any of the delicious sweet and spiced fruit I’d enjoyed before that. Is something wrong with the whiskey or has my taste changed drastically somehow? Really disappointing as prior to this, it was the best I’d had.
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Oct 22, 2018 02:04
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mentalcontempt posted:Is it possible to get a bad bottle? I bought a new bottle of Redbreast 12 but it tastes the way I remember the bottom of the last bottle tasting: astringent, woody, and without any of the delicious sweet and spiced fruit I’d enjoyed before that. Is something wrong with the whiskey or has my taste changed drastically somehow? Really disappointing as prior to this, it was the best I’d had. It's very easy to get variations in batches of pot distilled whisky.
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Oct 22, 2018 04:28
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mentalcontempt posted:Is it possible to get a bad bottle? I bought a new bottle of Redbreast 12 but it tastes the way I remember the bottom of the last bottle tasting: astringent, woody, and without any of the delicious sweet and spiced fruit I’d enjoyed before that. Is something wrong with the whiskey or has my taste changed drastically somehow? Really disappointing as prior to this, it was the best I’d had. I suspect, though I have no scientific proof, that lightstrike and heat cycling can cause issues. Potentially bad corks also. These are issues I’ve heard mentioned by friends and acquaintances with far more knowledge and experience than I have.
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Oct 22, 2018 09:54
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mentalcontempt posted:Is it possible to get a bad bottle? I bought a new bottle of Redbreast 12 but it tastes the way I remember the bottom of the last bottle tasting: astringent, woody, and without any of the delicious sweet and spiced fruit I’d enjoyed before that. Is something wrong with the whiskey or has my taste changed drastically somehow? Really disappointing as prior to this, it was the best I’d had. Sometimes the first dram can be a bit 'off'. Once the bottle has been opened for a while it can normalise. slothrop and TobinHatesYou are also correct. The stuff that slothrop mentions is normally found in bottles that have been opened a while. Heavily sherried whiskies can start to turn a bit once the bottle is over 70% air in my experience, however if the bottle you bought was on display under lights not in the tube then it's possible. Batch distilled whisky does provide a lot of variation and that can be fun. This year's release of Springbank 15 is pretty poor in my estimation but the last one I had (from 2015 or 2016) was amazing, If I get myself next years one it will be different again.
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Oct 25, 2018 13:03
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Speaking of Redbreast 12. What would you compare it with regards to scotch? I keep hearing it's really good but never really found an Irish whiskey that wasn't pretty dull.
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Oct 25, 2018 13:14
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For what its worth my wife is a "supertaster" and doesn't like scotch at all. She said Red Breast 12 was the first whisky she actually wanted to sip and tasted extremely good, "like tea tannins". We've had Jameson a bunch and that gross Kirkland stuff but she actually loves Red Breast apparently, need to try the 15. The 12 keeps being on sale for $50 at various places  Unrelated but we went to a wine dinner at some restaraunt last week (big mistake, food was worse than average and we were packed in like sardines but that's OK, more of a wine sales thing than dinner apparently). When the organizer asked me how I liked the wines, I said "meh they're ok, but I'm more of a whisky guy". He brought me a sample of Coopers Choice and some other peaty thing he had out in his car for whatever reason, best wine dinner ever.
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Oct 25, 2018 14:22
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