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some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I need to wire up a small university lab which may as well fall into the "home network" category. Upinks to the edge switch will be 1 gig.

I need to do two rooms. The lager of the two will be a sizeable lab, but all the computers are clustered on one wall. The other room is the attached office.

I was thinking about:

Cisco SD2005 5 port 10/100/1G unmanaged for the small office
Cisco SD2008T 8 port 10/100/1G unmanaged for the larger lab

Anything I should know about these two in terms of WARNING DO NOT USE? Or are they just your average run of the mill oversubscribed SOHO devices?

Only one of the computers is likely to do any heavy network lifting since it transfers in numbers from overseas to crunch, but even then it is limited to the campus backbone which maxes out somewhere at 100mbit. To that end I'm not too worried about an oversubscribed switch.

So those Ciscos -- yes/no? If no, any other suggestions?

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some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Devian666 posted:

I see a lot of Amazon reviews saying they run hot. Switches are a commodity product there's no reason to have them running hot especially given there's no-name switches that work perfectly well and don't overheat.

For SOHO usage I've been using netgear swtiches without an problems. However, anything that isn't bottom end cisco should work well.

Yeah actually I just checked those reviews myself and I think I'll give them the pass. I'm going to pick up two TP-LINK something-or-other 8 port gig switches they have at the campus booksture. Thanks for checking for me though!

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Recommendations for a small cheap 4 or 8 port gigabit switch that is VLAN aware? I doubt VLAN and CHEAP go in the same sentence but I guess I'll check in case you have any diamonds in the rough.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Welp, that was easy. Thanks.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Is anyone using an EdgeRouter Lite as a firewall-on-stick with all three interfaces bonded together? I'm trying to rebuild my home/homelab setup and I have some really edge case traffic that could saturate a single gig link crossing VLANs.

Plan would be to hook everything up to my Brocade FWS48G, trunk three gig interfaces to an ERL and use vif's to route traffic including WAN. I don't see how this wouldn't work I just wonder if anyone has anything super obvious to blow holes in my theory. I know LACP isn't going to increase throughput for single-stream connections but in this case it's multiple VMs hitting a single destination on another VLAN so I think this would work.

/technically/ I could put my FWS into Layer3 mode and that would easily solve my saturation problem but I dislike handling ACLs on brocade switches for one reason or another.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Sentient Data posted:

If it's only meant to be a firewall, why an ERL instead of a more purpose-built box with a single (or dual; in and out) 10g interface? If you're at the point where a single gig line is too saturated, you probably have a budget where an extra couple hundred bucks doesn't matter

Really only because my switch doesn't have a 10G uplink and I was trying to avoid replacing it altogether. The ERL is a $100 investment so I figured that would be easiest.

I could do it with my Fortigate too, I just hate that thing with the burning fire of a million suns. If I do build a box to do it I'll end up throwing VyOS on it and calling it a day so I may as well go with the ERL that already has a VyOS fork.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I'm tired of YouTube ads on my iPad and AppleTV. Is there a go-to standalone web proxy that everyone recommends? Would be spun up as a VM on my server so I'm not too worried about constant availability.

I'm looking at privoxy -- is there something else I should be considering?

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Even if it was available for iOS, it's not available in Canada :(

Thanks though.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
My lovely Fortigate 60-something is finally biting the dust. ERL shouldn't sweat a 500/500 WAN right?

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Antillie posted:

The ERL is capable of full gigabit speed routing. It will handle a 500/500 line just fine. Just make sure you pair the ERL with a switch as its terrible at being a switch. So your setup should be:

Internet -> ERL -> Switch -> <wired things>

Unless of course you only have one wired thing, such as an AP, then you don't need a switch.

Thanks. My plan is to hook up ERL to my Brocade FWS48G.

I've got a bunch of VLANs and things so my plan is actually


Home WAN uplink -> Switch (port dedicated to VLAN99 or whatever), then ERL trunked on eth0/1/2 with VIFs to all my VLANs connected to the switch. I posted about it a while back in the thread but didn't really pursue it since my fortigate was still chugging along fine. I managed to simulate this without problems on VyOS so I assume I can do the same with my ERL. If not I'll just split out my WAN link to a discrete eth0 interface and use eth1/2 as a bonded pair for the rest of my traffic/routing.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

all rear end no class posted:

Word of warning, ERL-3, ERPoE-5, and ERPro-8 can do wire-rate routing port-to-port, but they can't do QoS, traffic shaping or other packet-analysis at that speed. Basically if you're doing vanilla stuff then you're fine because the Edgerouter has hardware acceleration for those functions: routing, basic NAT, basic firewall. But if you start doing things outside of that hardware acceleration (packet inspection, traffic shaping, etc) then the performance drops down to below 300mbps.

Hmm, that's good to know, thanks.

My switch is L3 so theoretically I really only need the ERL to run NAT, but I'm not sure I want to rule out spinning up other features. For $100 I may just invest in ERL anyway.

Does anyone know how portable an ERL config is to VyOS? The basics should be cut'n'paste, right?

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Great, thanks. I'll probably pick up ERL since I'm not planning on anything fancy right now. It's really comforting to know that if the ERL ever fails or I need an upgrade I can just gently caress off to a VyOS box on beefier hardware.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Can anyone recommend a cheap WiFi to ethernet bridge? I’d like to relocate a big honkin’ laser printer to my basement but don’t have a network drop there, and the printer is decked out with just about everything except WiFi.

About everything I find is like CDN $80+ which, if that’s the price to play then okay but, I’d like to stay below. Since the printer already supports everything I need over the network (airprint, etc) I think all I’m looking for is just a network bridge instead of an actual print server but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Balls, I didn’t realize most repeaters could be configured as media bridges but I’m not sure why that didn’t immediately occur to me. Thanks everyone! This makes my solution easy to plan out.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Has anyone successfully managed to get an EdgeRouter running EdgeOS to hand out a DHCP option 119 (domain-search) that isn't the default system domain name? I set up a lab subnet for my stupid toys I spin up and gave it a separate domain name (home.lab, let's say). My ERL hands out home.local as a DHCP domain name and seems to assign the same to "option domain-search".

I did find this

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204960074-EdgeRouter-Custom-DHCP-Server-Options

but the built in edgeos config generator seems to overwrite the domain-search (that is to say, they both appear in the config)

e:

adding:

code:
set service dhcp-server shared-network-name DHCP_LAN subnet 10.0.78.0/24 subnet-parameters "option domain-search "home.local", "home.lab";"
results in:

code:
# generated by /opt/vyatta/sbin/dhcpd-config.pl

...

shared-network DHCP_LAN {
	not authoritative;
	subnet 10.0.78.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
		...
                option domain-search "home.local", "home.lab";
		option domain-search "home.local";
                ...
	}
}
and the second likely overwrites the first.

some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 15:40 on May 22, 2021

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Hmm. The problem is that there is no actual “configure” command to set domain-search so I have to go the “subnet parameter” way. I will try maybe setting just the second domain name in the subnet parameter and see if it somehow is smart enough to realize that two of the same options combine into a number of domains.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Oh! I think I got it!

I had to pore through /opt/vyatta/sbin/dhcpd-config.pl to find this:

code:
 my $domain_name = $vcDHCP->returnValue(
                            "$name subnet $subnet domain-name");
                        my @domain_names = split ' ', $domain_name;    
                        my $first_domain_name = $domain_names[0];    
                        if ( scalar (@domain_names) > 0 ) {         
                            $genout .=                                
                              "\t\toption domain-name \"$first_domain_name\";\n";
 
                            my $domain_search = join ', ', map { qq/"$_"/ } @domain_names;
                            $genout .=                          
                              "\t\toption domain-search $domain_search;\n";
                        }
But it looks like I need to set

set service dhcp-server shared-network-name blah subnet n.n.n.n/n domain-name "domain1 domain2"

and then the script parses domain1 as the actual domain for the DHCP assignment, and concats domain1 and domain2 for a proper option 119

e: Sorry for doublepost

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

cr0y posted:

Can someone help me with some subnet voodoo?

I have a DHCP server on my home network that has a pool of IPs from 10.10.10.100 to 10.10.10.150, I also have an openVPN instance that can dish out IPs to the connected clients, right now they get 172 addresses but I would like them to get IPs in the 10.10.10 range, openVPN has a config option for this but it requires the syntax of network + bits, (right now, its set to 172.27.240.0 with a bits of 20). With this syntax is there a way that I can basically "carve" out something like 10.10.10.160-170 for VPN clients? Or something similar? I know I have to stay out of the above DHCP pool...

It sounds like your ovpn server is creating a separate routed subnet for openvpn which means if you try to use 10.10.10.0/24 on that network you’ll be creating two competing 10.10.10.0/24 networks. You might need to look into moving from routing to bridging mode at which point your LAN DHCP server should handle the dirty work for your clients.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I've gone back a page or two and I don't think I'm re-treading any immediate conversations but I'm sure this comes up a million times so apologies:

I'm ready to ditch my cobbled together edgerouter and unifi ac setup and move to a whole-home mesh type setup. I'm at the point where I kind of want to think about, and interact with, my home network gear as little as humanly possible. I need it to just work, and while my edgerouter technically does I'm looking to upgrade to a whole home wifi mesh and I'm thinking of just starting over.

I have a few requirements for the router portion:

- I need whatever "router" I get to be able to do PPPoE so I can get an IP from my bridged Bell Fibe HH3000 router. Not sure I want to double-nat behind the HH3000.
- I need whatever "router" I get to be able to create a static route. I plan to have a separate homelab router and just want to carve off 10.0.0.0/12 and next-hop it over to that then never have to worry about it again.
- I'd love to be able to either port forward an OpenVPN port to an internal IP, or have the router handle OpenVPN (or any VPN, really, I'll do standard ipsec if necessary), but this may be asking a lot of a consumer device. This isn't a dealbreaker, I can get by without my home VPN.
- I want it to be fairly maintenance free, I'd love some kind of consumer-level "upgrade your firmware" button in an iOS app that saves me from having to think about what I'm doing, saving configs, etc.

And then obviously I want to be able to daisy chain wifi routers off this setup. I don't have any WiFi6 devices and current speeds nave NEVER been a concern so I'm fine with ancient 11ac gear I think. Maybe shortsighted but if I can get a whole home setup for the price of one Wifi6 unit then that's a no brainer for me.


I had high hopes for Ubiquiti gear in the past but, probably due to my lack of research, the integration I was hoping for never materialized. I run the Unifi AC as just a wifi accesspoint off an ethernet port on the edgerouter same as I did my old Cisco AP etc. If I can get something that has routing with the above requirements AND wifi meshing in one package/kit then that's amazing. If I can get a separate hands-off router and a hands-off wifi mesh then that's good too. I don't need them to be super tightly coupled but it would be a bonus.


I'm not really sure what the hotness is. It's been a while since I stepped into any home networking gear and when I did it was all prosumer stuff which isn't really my focus anymore (unless my requirements can't be met by consumer gear). I'm not sure I want to support ubiquiti these days -- their product line is.. unclear at best, and I just have a bad taste in my mouth from my failed experiment, and honestly I'd love to just try something different even if that is a bad reason for deciding so. But I'm not ruling them out.


So anyway, a big word salad. Did anything I say point me in an obvious direction? I want to do my own research but even searching for these terms these days just brings up tons of clickbait "BEST ROUTERS OF 2021!!" sites so it's like needle in a haystack for anything useful.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Thanks gang. Nothing against rolling my own but if I can just out-of-box something in an hour and leave it I'd really prefer that. I guess I'll look at ZenWiFi AX Mini AX1800, not sure why I'd look at anything bigger right now unless someone tells me this is a stupendously bad idea.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Yeah sorry should have mentioned, I checked all the nice to haves and they seem good, I'll definitely be buying from brick and mortar so I can boot it back if necessary. Not going to complicate things with a 2 month research hole nitpicking over every small detail -- I'll grab these and if they work that's cool and I can stop thinking about it for the next two or three years which is well worth the $3-400 to me :)

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Anyone using a Ubiquiti Dream Machine Pro in a home environment? I got a fat amazon gift card for helping a friend deal with log4j in December and I want to start upgrading my existing ubiquiti wifi mesh, but also my edgerouter has been a little flaky lately so thinking of just buying this thing.

Aside from whether it’s worth the price Amazon asks etc, any immediate thought positive or negative? I posted previously about wanting to get out of the ubiquiti ecosystem because I thought the integration wasn’t there, but looks like the Dream Machine would be able to run all those lovely little apps that UBNT expected me to run on my laptop to configure APs.

Essentially I want a decent performing home router uplinked to two or thee gigabit ethernet backhauled APs to serve a gigabit up/down WAN to a three person home with mostly WiFi 5 devices. A smattering of WiFi 6 and probably a bunch of legacy 4 as well. Not terribly interested in AP recommendations just yet (will go UBNT) but that’s just to give ideas of traffic. IDS/IPS may be overkill in a home environment but I like the idea that I can enable it without sacrificing huge amounts of throughput.

The connection is a Bell gigabit up/down FTTH, and my edgerouter “supplants” the modem by using the same PPPoE credentials. I’m not using it to emulate Bell’s lovely TV vlan etc, literally just using this for internet and letting their own router handle the IPTV vlans. I’m OK with this being way overkill for a home environment, just curious whether anyone has any immediate thoughts on the machine itself in the above scenarios.

e: Oh what’s the noise level like? Is it constant or does it ramp up if traffic/throughput/load ramps up? It’ll sit in my basement but my home office is down there with mighty thin walls so quiet is good.

some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 5, 2022

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
That's super cool. Im probably going to pull the trigger tomorrow but it's great to hear it's working out well. Do you use any of the IDS/IPS or advanced network functionality? Just trying to get a sense of whether it delivers the performance it says on the tin.

I'm very interested in expanding to the cameras too so I'm super happy to hear that works well as well.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Awesome, thanks everyone. I'm happy with a small sample size of positive experiences.

It is probably super overkill for me as well, but I am running a side homelab with some high throughput VMs and other fun toy environments so I won't say no to futureproofing my central routing resource. I like the 10gb SFPs in case I want to upgrade my Synology and servers down the road.

I come from a security background so I'm mainly interested in IDS/IPS just from an "it can't hurt" perspective (until you start false positive connection drops and turn it off lol) but I wouldn't cry about not having it on a home device.

some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 5, 2022

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Man, the downside to being in the Ubiquiti ecosystem is that now I'm giving the stink-eye to all the little switches throughout my house I can't control from a central UI :\

But thankfully the little 5 port gigabit switches UBNT sells are like fifty bucks so I can start swapping those out if I need to.

How quickly I went from not thinking about VLANs to wanting to segment my IoT and other dumb gadgets is pretty astonishing.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Residency Evil posted:

Why should I segment this stuff on to a separate VLAN?

Just a preference on my part. If it doesn't need to talk to my NAS or my laptops or my computers I'd actually really prefer it didn't. If I need to open up small holes I can do that with small, specific firewall rules.

Like my smart TV is an example, or smart bulbs and plugs which are only meant to be controlled from a central gadget. If I can minimize the crosstalk then cool. I also like to know all my legit home things are on one IP range, my lab and infrastructure are on another so I don't have to guess if 10.0.0.58 is a smart switch or a tv or my macbook or whatever. That's not the best reason because you could do that with DNS and DHCP static leases but just another reason.

movax posted:

CAD or USD? The Minis are really cheap and can do basic VLAN'ing which is nice.

Usually 192.168.100.1 or similar will pull up the cable modem page, and you can take a look.

They usually only need internet access / are lovely products rushed to market running whatever stock firmware came on the ESP8266/ESP32/etc, so isolating them from the rest of your network is generally good practice.

I think I grabbed mine for 60 from amazon but now that I think about it maybe it was more in CAD. Not too bad, anyway, and if it's a question of paying $70 let's say for a nice VLAN capable, PoE powered, centrally managed 5-port switch, or another cheap whitebox amazon special desktop dumb switch -- I don't buy enough of those on a regular basis to say I'd take the savings.





So the UDM-Pro arrived like 5 days early and I'm pretty excited. I logged in and played with it a bit. Seems much different than what I'm used to. I was going to just rip out the ER and put this in but I think I'm going to take a day to figure this poo poo out more before I do.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I'm hoping ubnt's last escapades forced them to re-evaluate how they work internally because cloud management is within my risk appetite assuming I can do everything I can to protect my specific account (MFA etc) . I would certainly not have the same appetite just yet if I were deploying these in a commercial setting. The central management thing is actually really appealing to me, if you plan ahead and get a stack that integrates well together. Before (I mean, or currently, since I haven't transitioned yet) when I had a ubnt edgerouter and unifi APs I was hoping that there would be some cool synergy being from the same vendor but nope. I still needed to run that lovely controller java app somewhere or the APs were unmanageable, no integration with the edgerouter, separate panes of glass for managing everything, etc. I just bought a UDM Pro and a few new APs and it looks to provide the single point of management (or failure, I guess lol) that I'm looking for so I guess it really depends on your viewpoint or specific preferences.

One of these days I'll get around to installing that UDM and new APs too.. Just need a day to decompress from work stress which seemingly never ends :q:

The biggest pro I can think of for me is that if I find I have lovely coverage somewhere it's fairly easy to just add a new AP and have it seamlessly merge into the system. I mean I'm certain that's the case with a lot of other systems, but this ecosystem seems to have a good combination of good features, decent management (though, just loving finish the new interface already, Ubnt, so I can stop switching between new/classic) and one-click AP adoption that I'm looking for.

Definitely at a price $$ though.

some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jan 19, 2022

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I finally swapped the UDM-Pro in for my EdgeRouter, re-adopted all my Unifi APs and I am in LOVE with this setup. This is the single-pane-of-glass visibility and management I was hoping for when I first invested in the EdgeRouter and APs a while back without doing my research.

Only real knock I have on Unifi right now is:

1. There needs to be a (?) icon to take you to some context specific help page on their site for some of these config items. I know a fair bit about networking but even some of these wifi settings are like “???” which probably means I shouldn’t be messing with them but at the very least Unifi should be able to tell me what they do rather than just listing them and giving me a checkbox and hoping I can google for the right thing.

2. Please for the love of dog finish making the “New UI” feature complete. I am so incredibly sick of flipping between new UI and old UI to configure things. I should just leave old UI on because I don’t think new exposes anything that old doesn’t, but the new has better dashboard presentation etc, so it’s a constant struggle.

3. Let me override the connectivity diagram. Right now it shows one of my APs floating off in space because I have it uplinked through a non-unifi switch because I ran out of switchports on the UDM. This is just a little annoyance and doesn’t really affect me in any way, but since it knows that the procurve switch exists, it would be cool if I could tell the controller that the AP is uplinked through that. Oh well.

The ease that this all came together with really makes me want to just replace a bunch of my other dumb switches with their $50 PoE 5-port offering, and throw an in-wall AP in one last corner of my house. They really really made this easy IMO and whether or not I like Ubiquiti as a company or think they have their poo poo together behind the scenes, for RIGHT NOW this is a really really nice setup and I am happy to throw a few more bucks to make my life easier.

Just off the top of my head, can’t think of another option that integrates together this easily across both WiFi and wired.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
The only thing it has going for it right now is that the topology map doesn't suck rear end on Safari on my Mac. I kind of use that to see where things are connecting at a glance while I fine tune radio power etc, but after that I think I'm going to dump it forevermore.

I just noticed that the old UI asks me to define a DHCP range for a network, but then when I turn my new UI on it has that auto-extend network slider checked. So which is it, Ubnt? Are you going to respect my DHCP scope or are you going to auto-extend it?? :confused:

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I know I just posted about it but lol I'm so confused



same network

New UI isn't even in like "press to apply changes" mode, that's just the setting that exists :lol:

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Is there actually a good primer on AP placement and rssi tuning (or whatever the appropriate term is from the source side)? Ideally something that starts off fairly simplistic and doesn’t rely on me cobbling together reddit or forum posts (no oiffense, good material here of course, I just prefer to do my research in individual document form)

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Sounds good, I definitely need to understand this a little better.

Just logged into my UDM to check AP associations and the chromecast in my basement office is connecting to the AP on the 2rd floor despite there being a (presumably) closer and better signal from the living room AP so clearly I just don't understand how devices make their choices, or I have misconfigured something.

Alternately: Everything is fine until I see connectivity problems and I should worry about one of the other hundred problems in my life right now.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Anyone know of an AP that can be controlled via API?

I'm not going to get into the super specifics, but I'd like to set up a WiFi for my ancient non-WPA2 retro computers to get online, but I'd like to enable it via home assistant so I can just tell Siri to start my insecure wifi and it would do stuff behind the scenes to tell the AP to enable on the world's least secure SSID.

Then presumable have it scripted to disable after 30 minutes in case I forget to.

Obviously would be super VLAN'd only for external access and access to my Synology for AFP sharing but I'll worry about the specifics later. Just trying to see if this is even feasible.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Oh pff yeah ok that is way more elegant and a tribute to the fact that I will severely overcomplicate things when a simple answer is available :)

Thanks gang!

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Comedy or non-comedy answer: Isn't access the default port state? So theoretically either doing nothing, or deleting your running-config (assuming you don't have anything significant in there) might to it?

It's been about that long since I was a cisco-toucher too :\

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
lmao let's play a guessing game.

Guess who installed a second Unifi AP by placing it face-up on a high shelf upstairs in my house, pointing at the attic.

Guess who was subsequently surprised that signal strength gains is like.. okay at best.

Guess who has no concept of directional antennas or at the very least optimizing antenna direction.

My friends, it was me!!


Now I'm down a rabbit hole of optimizing your wifi youtubes.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

SamDabbers posted:

What if ceiling AP sat face up on the floor instead???


Can't talk now, busy mounting an AP outside so I can get good WiFi in the back yard.

Putting it in a big metal box to protect from elements.

Will report back.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Hint: Unless otherwise specified, access points are omni-directional and beam-forming for the 5GHz ISM band is gonna be a lot more useful to you than trying to ensure that it has "the right orientation".

I was just tooling around the UI community site and I think I saw several people say their APs orient outward from the top but honestly I have no idea what that means in actual signal terms. Lots of research for me to do.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

I'm not sure what it means either.
Is there any indication that they know what they're talking about? :v:

It’s a community forum so who knows, really :q:

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some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
i wish I knew MoCA was a thing before I tore out a bunch of my coax runs the previous owner put in.

I mean none of it was professional, holes in floors and run along baseboards etc, but it's all work I had to re-do with ethernet when I could have put it off for a bit.

And now I'm kind of thinking of re-doing the backhaul upstairs with fiber anyway, as an easy path to 10gbe down the road. Thankfully I put up a bunch of conduit so stringing new cable is easy for 99% of the run, just need to figure out how to terminate it upstairs. With twisted pair I just terminate it to a a wall box after the cable emerges from the cool totally-code-compliant hole in the floor. With fiber I guess I need to route it to its uplink, unless there's a fiber equivalent of a twisted pair junction keystone jack, which seems iffy given you're talking about optical carriers with a lot less margin for error.

e: I mean pragmatically, without specialized equipment, etc. Obviously you can money at this kind of problem.

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