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mattfl
Aug 27, 2004

Big Beef City posted:

Thanks for the advice,
I am starting left. My approach essentially begins with my heel almost touching the 'top' end of the ball return (assuming it, too is to the left) and releasing as close as I can to the left most board, with the intent to get the ball as far right and long as I can, and it's still pulling, literally, entirely back across the lane and into the left gutter.

I've thrown 1 series +2 games with this, spread across two different bowling alleys now (Ash. lanes and Village lanes up in Howard closer to where I live (half-way from the NEW zoo to Pulaski))
Same results.

My speeds are atrocious. 14.5-15 throwing 'straight', 11.5 throwing 2-finger 'hook' (or at least with this new ball and my most recent series).
Which, I know, 'real' bowlers hate. It's how I taught myself, it's what I am used to and comfortable (or was) doing. It's what I intended to do here. Please no flak.

My hook has always been a looping curveball, and I'm cool with that, but when I was younger I could generate more speed. But, these are basically my first three/four 'real' series after being away from actually caring about bowling for like 16 years, so...

e: I am waiting for the ball to hook so strongly that it actually U-turns and starts heading back towards me to punish me for my sins.

Iím gonna go out on a limb and say 11.5 is far to slow for that aggressive of a ball. Youíre giving the ball way to much time to do its thing. Probably gonna hafta find a way to generate more speed or that ball may not work for you. Thatís just my guess though. Someone else probably has more technical talk for you.

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Big Beef City
Aug 15, 2013
Not arguing that.
Hence the relatively low 14 lb weight and my desire to polish it up to a higher sheen rather than just toss it away.

I fully understand the criticism.
I worked as a caddie and in a golf pro-shop for years as a younger man, fitting clubs for people who should not/could not have them. I know that biting the hand that's out there to make you buy dumb stuff leads to perilous results.

Over time, as I get really back into it, I do expect my speed to increase. How dramatically, now that I'm 36? I don't know. But faster than 11.5 on a hook shot. Again, These are my first few "ok, I'm doing this again" mistakes into bowling.

I'm a dummy for buying the ball, probably. Still did it anyway. Trying to salvage it, I've got hrs and $ to spend on a hobby. Kill me :getin:

e: basically I'm looking to improve the polish on a Storm Torrent 14 lb ball to match house lane oil conditions for a no-thumb grip tyia.

Big Beef City fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Nov 2, 2017

Devo
Jul 9, 2001

:siren:Caught Cubs Posting:siren:
When I need to increase my speed the first thing I always try to do is speed up my feet. I'm not saying run or anything, but a little extra pep in your step can get you 2 or 3 mph on the ball pretty easily. Especially if you've got a pretty slow and deliberate approach right now.

buffto
Feb 11, 2005
ass assassin
https://youtu.be/Hjdp14zFmAM

This guy has a mental approach for you to try when it comes to foot speed, grip pressure, etc.

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008

Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text
If you are two fingering a solid reactive coverstock at 11 mph, that is the exact reaction you are going to get. It's going to be aggressive as hell and unable to be kept right of the headpin. You are probably putting a million revs on it.

Any chance you can not "hit it" as hard coming through the ball with your fingers? Take some revs off of it. This may get your speed up a bit too. But if you want to keep that in the pocket on a house shot, you are really going to either need to speed up or take revs off. Speeding up in general might take some revs off. Keep practicing!

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Upped my PB game 40 pts to 254, not bad for a lane ball

buffto
Feb 11, 2005
ass assassin
drat. If you're able to get 254 with a house ball, you should consider getting your own ball drilled for your hand.

Big Beef City
Aug 15, 2013

Thom P. Tiers posted:

If you are two fingering a solid reactive coverstock at 11 mph, that is the exact reaction you are going to get. It's going to be aggressive as hell and unable to be kept right of the headpin. You are probably putting a million revs on it.

Any chance you can not "hit it" as hard coming through the ball with your fingers? Take some revs off of it. This may get your speed up a bit too. But if you want to keep that in the pocket on a house shot, you are really going to either need to speed up or take revs off. Speeding up in general might take some revs off. Keep practicing!

You are of course, correct.

Because I've drilled into myself, over time, using time and many lapsed years of not bowling and only using house balls - "Spin the poo poo out of this thing" it's, of course, causing my issue.

I polished it and worked it and... eh. BUT I've been trying. That's what counts.

Because I've already purchased and had it drilled and got stuff for it, I'm not going to abandon the ball.

I've transitioned into a more traditional approach with higher speeds and that has helped (I'm still poo poo).

I'm going to take the ball into a much higher gloss 3000-4000 and play several games and just SEE what it's like. ...and then I'm gonna get coaching. ...probably either way.

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
I just started bowling again about 3 months ago after taking about 12 years off. I bowled a ton when I was younger and fell off shortly after starting college. Getting the details back down is slow going, my aim is still pretty questionable and my release is all over the place. Picked up a new ball since my hand has changed a bit too much (still had an Ebonite Apex Adrenaline and XXXcel), grabbed the Ebonite Affinity. I hopped into a league that needed a spot filled, and I've been averaging about 170. Going by the shop tomorrow to ask for coach recs and to see if it's worth re-slugging and refinishing the XXXcel since the span still fits okay but the thumb hole is huge. The Apex was too far gone span-wise so I got rid of it, but if I can breathe some life into the XXXcel it might help me out in heavier oil (hit or miss whether they lay down fresh right before my league so far).

buffto
Feb 11, 2005
ass assassin
Well, I had a xxxcel, and it hooked a ton back in the day. However, the ball you just bought probably out-hooks it as it is, just because of how much equipment has improved over the years. I would try putting a poo poo ton of tape in it and see how that works before you invest in plugging and re-drilling.

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
Yeah, I didn't plug and redrill, doesn't seem worth it at all. I went in and did have him drill out the slug that was in there and throw a new one in so he could fit it to my thumb, and he sanded it down a bit. I've thrown it for a game or two since then and it still hits great, still hooks decently enough too. It'll be a good compliment to the Affinity while I'm ramping back up. Shot 215/217/157 at league this week, barely missing my first 600 since returning. Got a killer headache at the end of the night, and my thumb was swelling a bit too much before I stopped being an idiot and took some tape out of the thumb hole. The lanes were good to me, for sure, but I'm feeling more comfortable and confident in my release which is a welcome change.

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
Double posting since this thread is quiet as hell and I feel like nerding out. Since I learned to bowl in the mid-late 90s, I was taught a traditional release, lifting, etc. As I gained more experience I experimented a little more and ended up developing somewhat of a hybrid between that and what you see in the modern release. I have a high backswing, at the top I get my hand all the way on the inside, cock my wrist on the way down, but on release I still come around the outside a little with a straight wrist and really late timing. Back when I had this down it worked pretty well for me, somewhat speed-dominant, and when I stopped I had hit a bit of a plateau where addressing this weird release would've probably helped me out.

Now that I'm re-teaching myself to bowl, my release is probably the shakiest part of my shot so I want to address it. I'm incredibly speed-dominant right now making it really difficult for me to be able to bring the ball back in any amount of oil, and if I'm having an off night (see my first two games in league last night) I'm basically throwing a straight ball. I have some amount of muscle memory for my old release but this is probably the best time for me to learn something new if I'm ever going to. Just spent a good hour running foul-line and one-step release drills. Tried a couple of full approaches at the end but was still falling into old habits. This poo poo's hard. Gonna try running drills like this once or twice a week if I can, and I've got a first session with a coach this weekend.

hockeyfrog
Jun 11, 2008
It's tough unlearning things and learning new. I think you having a lesson with a coach is definitely a step in the right direction. I'd recommend seeing if the coach would film you for a few shots so you can see what you're doing, and maybe see what you need to tweak to get that better shot. Let us know what you find out!

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
It went really well and we mostly focused on my approach rather than my release. The major changes are:

1) 5 step approach instead of 4. This helps my timing a little and it's something I've never really done.
2) Stand taller in my setup. I'm tall and I've always had a habit of bending my knees a lot at the start, which of course then I stand up while walking, and bend down again during slide.
3) Don't be so square to the lane throughout approach (namely backswing). I was always taught to stay square with the lane, but this is problematic during backswing. I've always dropped the ball pretty far from my ankle which is a symptom of this. Need to open my shoulders during the backswing.
4) When I was trying to get inside the ball near the top of my backswing, I was actually getting completely underneath it, and pulling it back outside of my head (backview shows the ball up & to the left from my head at top of backswing).
5) Stay behind the ball during backswing (learnings from point 4), through release & start working toward getting inside the ball there. This was really the only thing about my release we discussed. For now he wants me to focus on the rest of it and just stay completely behind the ball, and as I get comfortable working on the rest of the changes, I can start trying to work inside the ball a little.

I do have video of myself from a couple months ago so I can try to analyze my approach a little, but I had missed a lot of his observations. He took some video and had a cool app where he could play two side by side so I got to see the before and after of my approach. I've gone a couple times since to work on it and it's definitely still not muscle memory at this point but it's getting there. My targeting has been thrown way off and in about 8 games worth of practice yesterday it was an outlier for me to hit whatever mark I was aiming for, so that's going to take some time to figure out again. When I can get someone to take some video of my new approach I can post them up side by side if anyone's curious. It's a pretty drastic change for me.

I've got league tonight so we'll see how that goes with all of the changes.

EDIT: He also heavily advised I grab a spare ball, which I agree with, but I've been trying to not build up so much new equipment so fast (considering I've bought 2 balls already since returning). I had one when I bowled before, but unlike the rest of my arsenal, it was 16 lbs because I was thinking about moving to that. Got rid of it since I decided to stick to 15.

rivals fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 6, 2017

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

I just want to bitch for a minute because last week in league the team we were playing completely steamrolled us because someone with a 36 handicap got a new ball and fixed some stuff and was consistently bowling 650+ series, with a few 700's in the past 2 weeks.

Great for him (dude was bowling great) but man that was demoralizing in a handicap league, hopefully tonight is a bit more fair :negative:

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
Hahah, that sucks and I feel for you if for no other reason than the fact that my team did that about 2-3 weeks ago. We're second-to-last only ahead of an all-blind team to round out the league and we took all 3 + series from the first place team. They were none too pleased. One of them jokingly told a couple of us that he doesn't want to see our averages in the 160s next time we bowl them.

hockeyfrog
Jun 11, 2008
I'm about a 150 average bowler. Friday night was above average... started off 190... 205... and I needed to strike out in the 10th to get my first 600.

Strike.

Breathe. Approach. Release. Solid pocket hit... and left the drat 10 pin standing.

I picked it up, but it was not enough. I drat near cried. Ended with a 589. Which I should be happy about, is my highest series to date (plus widened my lead on handicap high series for the season)... but c'mon!

rivals
Apr 5, 2004

REBIRTH OF HARDCORE PRIDE!
Quick brag. Last night I shot my highest game and series since returning. 176, 212, 256 for a 644 series. In the third game I got the front 7, but nerves were steadily creeping up since the 5th. 8th came off my hand weak and left the 2-4-5. Picked it up, left the 4 in the 9th and closed it out with a strike and spare in the 10th. We still got bopped by the other team though, one of them opened up with a 289 in the first game, and I think they all shot 15+ pins over their average each game.

Was feeling out and experimenting with my swing and release a lot throughout the night. When I actively think about it, I can feel myself muscling the ball and get myself to stop, but when I focus on keeping a strong wrist and staying behind the ball I go back to muscling it. Need to work on balancing that and having more of a free arm swing through release.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

"Walking Schwindel, smart move."
I am just horribly in my own head this season and I can't manage to pop out of it. Average is down about 25 pins and I can't clear my head when I get up to the line.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

"Walking Schwindel, smart move."
Dude in my league just picked up a Greek church :stare:

Devo
Jul 9, 2001

:siren:Caught Cubs Posting:siren:

Poque posted:

Dude in my league just picked up a Greek church :stare:

Nice I've only seen that a handful of times. Picked up the big 4 and 7-10 myself but never that one.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

I picked up a 7-9 this league (even if the 9had shifted a bunch after the first ball without going down :kiddo:)

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

"Walking Schwindel, smart move."
I think 6-7 or 4-10 is the toughest I've ever converted. Someday I'll get a big one

We just bombed out so hard and I'm so glad this season is over. I'm completely broken. Wondering if starting fresh with a different ball could help as a reset of sorts.

speedtek
Nov 26, 2004

Let's make it out, baby.
So, 5 years after getting back into bowling, I achieved and sustained a 200 average for the first time in my life. Ended the season with a 204 so I'm pretty happy about that. Even cooler, my anchor man - a guy in his mid 50's, got a 300 in the very last game of the season with his Hammer that he's been using since 1991 :3:

buffto
Feb 11, 2005
ass assassin
One time I was subbing in a league for the first time, so I was establishing an average. First game we ended up behind by one pin, which meant for us to win that point, I would have to end up with at least 2 pins of handicap. Basically anything below a 218. We won the second game outright and we were well ahead at the end of the third. I was anchoring and came up in the tenth frame. I threw a strike on the first ball and left the big four on the second. If I get zero, one, or two pins, I set a 217 average and we win the first game and sweep them. Anything more and I set a 218 and we tie the first game.

Of course my dumbass picks it up.

Well that was my big split conversion story, thanks for listening.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



buffto posted:

One time I was subbing in a league for the first time, so I was establishing an average. First game we ended up behind by one pin, which meant for us to win that point, I would have to end up with at least 2 pins of handicap. Basically anything below a 218. We won the second game outright and we were well ahead at the end of the third. I was anchoring and came up in the tenth frame. I threw a strike on the first ball and left the big four on the second. If I get zero, one, or two pins, I set a 217 average and we win the first game and sweep them. Anything more and I set a 218 and we tie the first game.

Of course my dumbass picks it up.

Well that was my big split conversion story, thanks for listening.

Perverse incentives due to handicap suck, sandbagging sucks. You did the right thing.

buffto
Feb 11, 2005
ass assassin
Honestly I can't take credit for doing the right thing. Picking up the big 4 is 99% luck.

speedtek
Nov 26, 2004

Let's make it out, baby.
That figures. Our league standings have been very tight all year. A few weeks ago one of our better guys (and the youngest), was our anchor for the week and left a 2-10 in the 10th frame of the last game. The game was already lost, but if he got one pin we would have hit our team average and gotten a point. Our captain told him to just get one and get that valuable point. "I'm gonna pick it up" he says. Misses it completely, and he gets a lot of poo poo from our captain.

Fast forward to now - final league standings are out, and we tied for 3rd. Now we gotta split that prize money.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

What's the best resource for getting up to speed on modern approach techniques without being drowned in drilling minutiae? I just got my first ball ever drilled fingertip after a lifetime of playing house balls once every 6-8 months with a three step approach and may be somewhat lost.

buffto
Feb 11, 2005
ass assassin
I never really had any formal coaching and I sort of just taught myself through repetition and watching other people. So I did a quick search on google to see if I could find something to help you out. Holy poo poo there is a lot of bullshit to trudge through.

It looks like Storm Bowling put out a small video series to get you started, though.

Start with this video and go through all 4 parts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SyJihd6LGI

It's kinda clunky and looks like Randy Pedersen did the whole thing in one take, but it has some decent tips and information.

Your best bet, however, would be to have an experienced bowler watch you and work with you.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

After watching the PBA Scorpion championship it looks like just about anything goes if you can train it to consistency.

:wtc: Brandon Novak

Hulebr00670065006e
Apr 20, 2010
Any advice to a dude with hammer/clubbed thumbs (short and wide) who only bowls once in a blue moon. It's always a struggle to find a few balls that I can even kind of use. I can never find a ball that I can grip comfortably. Either I can't fit my thumb in the hole at all or they are too far apart and I will often slightly drop the ball during the release if I even try to give it any speed.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Hulebr00670065006e posted:

Any advice to a dude with hammer/clubbed thumbs (short and wide) who only bowls once in a blue moon. It's always a struggle to find a few balls that I can even kind of use. I can never find a ball that I can grip comfortably. Either I can't fit my thumb in the hole at all or they are too far apart and I will often slightly drop the ball during the release if I even try to give it any speed.

Are you talking about using house balls? Nah. Get your own ball. I've got a clubbed thumb AND I'm left-handed, so really the only house balls I could ever use were the comically oversized variety that were impossible to do much with beyond hoping to aim straight. Usually they were plastic and 16 lbs.

If you get your own ball you can get your thumb hole fit for you. It's, uh, nice and necessary.

The other option is to just learn how to throw without the thumb in a hole or two-handed like Jason Belmonte. That cuts out the middle man, but most house balls probably won't be reactive enough to actually hook back, which makes aiming a bit harder.

Hulebr00670065006e
Apr 20, 2010

Pander posted:

Are you talking about using house balls? Nah. Get your own ball. I've got a clubbed thumb AND I'm left-handed, so really the only house balls I could ever use were the comically oversized variety that were impossible to do much with beyond hoping to aim straight. Usually they were plastic and 16 lbs.

If you get your own ball you can get your thumb hole fit for you. It's, uh, nice and necessary.

The other option is to just learn how to throw without the thumb in a hole or two-handed like Jason Belmonte. That cuts out the middle man, but most house balls probably won't be reactive enough to actually hook back, which makes aiming a bit harder.

Well I'm also a lefty (that's bad too?). I'm not at a point where I'll get my own ball at the moment so I guess I'll have to start bowling without my thumb in a hole. Know of any resources I can check out before the next time so I might make less of a fool out of myself until I readjust?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Hulebr00670065006e posted:

Well I'm also a lefty (that's bad too?). I'm not at a point where I'll get my own ball at the moment so I guess I'll have to start bowling without my thumb in a hole. Know of any resources I can check out before the next time so I might make less of a fool out of myself until I readjust?

Well, I mean, there's only two states of existence in bowling:

1) Amateur/semi-pro in at least one league a week
2) Looking like a drat fool having fun with friends once every few months

and no in-between

Embrace looking like a fool.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Hulebr00670065006e posted:

Well I'm also a lefty (that's bad too?). I'm not at a point where I'll get my own ball at the moment so I guess I'll have to start bowling without my thumb in a hole. Know of any resources I can check out before the next time so I might make less of a fool out of myself until I readjust?

If you bowl, at all, ever, it's worth it to get your own ball. I finally took the plunge saturday and went six games in a row, alone, with no discomfort beyond some next day muscle soreness. Usually I'd be thinking about cutting my arm off at the shoulder after 2 or 3 with breaks for other people to have their turns. It was entirely a comfort/quality of life decision for me instead of performance.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot
resurrecting the bowling thread to say I finally broke the 100 threshold and scored a 101 yesterday chucking some candlepin. :toot: poo poo's difficult. got close to doing it again in the final game but badly converted a spare in the 10th frame and finished with a 99

e: converting a spare? what is it called when you shoot for your spare on the next frame?

barnold fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 15, 2018

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008

Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text

Tiny Tubesteak Tom posted:

resurrecting the bowling thread to say I finally broke the 100 threshold and scored a 101 yesterday chucking some candlepin. :toot: poo poo's difficult. got close to doing it again in the final game but badly converted a spare in the 10th frame and finished with a 99

e: converting a spare? what is it called when you shoot for your spare on the next frame?

Not sure I understand the question, but converting a spare (if you pick it up) is correct terminology. The term "fill" can also be used, as in, fill up the frame (with a spare or a strike). Also the extra balls in the 10th frame are considered "fill balls."

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



"picked up" is the typical slang so far as I've heard.

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barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot

Thom P. Tiers posted:

Not sure I understand the question, but converting a spare (if you pick it up) is correct terminology. The term "fill" can also be used, as in, fill up the frame (with a spare or a strike). Also the extra balls in the 10th frame are considered "fill balls."

Converting the spare is knocking all the pins down in two rolls (or "picking up the spare"). What I'm talking about is the bonus score you tack on from the first throw of your next frame. Is there a word for that? Is it literally just the "bonus throw"?

Also, I went and played three more strings today, couldn't stay away

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