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Yeticopter
Nov 19, 2004

Everybody's favorite urban legend, now airborne.

David Corbett posted:

Awesome. 2,662 pounds? Not loving gigantic? Toyota reliability? Works for me.

200 or so horsepower isn't that much for a modern sports car, sure, but it's plenty for a car that light.

Fake edit: Yeah, couldn't care less about the clock.

Considering that's the same weight and power as a Cooper S it's certainly nothing to scoff at. Not to mention a drag coefficient that probably makes the Mini look like a refrigerator.

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CRUSTY MINGE
Mar 30, 2011
Chelsea Manning is a goddamned HERO


Piano posted:

I wouldn't be too concerned with Subaru's ability to make a reliable naturally aspirated engine.

I wouldn't either.

However, at this point we should be able to say that about any auto manufacturer just due to technological advances of the past decade, but that's not always the case. It's not like Subaru is run by Chrysler. I'd stake Subaru reliability pretty high if you're just a standard consumer, but like everything else when run hard and fast, it's going to have its' problems.

That said, if I didn't have back problems, I'd be down for the base model a year or so after it comes out. Getting out of a Civic is an ordeal, so I can only imagine how annoying it would be in anything lower.

smooth jazz
May 13, 2010



I'm basically never going to have kids so I'm down for the BRZ.

I think it looks the tits and on paper it appears to be free of gimmicks and geegaws.

Love the clock and hope they don't fuckup the steering feel.


As long it fits, I'm 6' 4" godamnit.

And as long as they bring back the Boxer rumble (which they stupidly removed from the current naturally aspirated lineup, and the Leggy GT for that matter).

D C
Jun 19, 2004

1-800-HOTLINEBLING
1-800-HOTLINEBLING
1-800-HOTLINEBLING


smooth jazz posted:


As long it fits, I'm 6' 4" godamnit.


I'm 6'4 and I have a tall torso, I barely fit in my s13 240sx.

smooth jazz
May 13, 2010



D C posted:

I'm 6'4 and I have a tall torso, I barely fit in my s13 240sx.

Yeah I have gams like loving Heidi Klum so I hope they have a telescoping wheel and no sunroof.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



kimbo305 posted:

Check out that wheel design compared to the other overlays.



I'm going to stop looking at this picture, it makes my head hurt.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

smooth jazz posted:

Love the clock and hope they don't fuckup the steering feel.

There's no reason why they shouldn't go with a quick ratio + electric assist. Electric assist is tits.

Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004


Autism Monday posted:

Yeah, civility would be the last thing on my mind with the 200hp 150ft/lb monster here.

Civility and hp aren't related, plus that Subaru rendering is an STi concept which are all about retarded styling cues.


Phone posted:

There's no reason why they shouldn't go with a quick ratio + electric assist. Electric assist is tits.


One of the spec sheets says 2.5 turns lock to lock which is quite fast.

Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Nov 3, 2011

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

Man cars are expensive. I appreciate what they're trying to do but a bare-bones car still around $25k? That seems high.

Around $30k on the high end is crazy considering you're getting into WRX money and you don't get more HP, AWD, or extra practicality of 2 extra doors.

I guess it is a niche car, though.

DEUCE SLUICE
Feb 6, 2004

I dreamt I was an old dog, stuck in a honeypot. It was horrifying.


Another day, another review, this one from Motor Trend

my favorite bits:

quote:

The engine drives the rear wheels through a choice of two Aisin six-speed transmissions, one a manual, the other a conventional planetary automatic with manual actuation via steering wheel-mounted paddles. The transmission is the same one used in the Lexus IS 350, among others.

I'd never get a car like this with the auto, but if it's a halfway decent drive that'd probably help the long term chances of the car.


quote:

Subaru engineers quietly concede there's more power to come from the boxer four, though they won't confirm whether a turbo is in the works. They admit the BRZ structure has been engineered from the get-go to allow for a convertible version, so you can bet we'll see a softtop model within the next few years. And, most intriguing of all, they say the platform is flexible enough to allow for a significant wheelbase stretch.

BRZ 'vert would be excellent, but I'm curious about the "wheelbase stretch" comment - stretching the wheelbase isn't what would be needed to add AWD if this platform is to be used for the WRX going forward.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




dreesemonkey posted:

M
Around $30k on the high end is crazy considering you're getting into WRX money

WRX's start at $25k.

niggerstink420
Aug 7, 2009

by T. Fine


Piano posted:

I wouldn't be too concerned with Subaru's ability to make a reliable naturally aspirated engine.

How are the head gaskets?

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

DEUCE SLUICE posted:

poo poo about tranny

Horray for not having Subaru's notoriously lovely boxes!!

Nodoze
Aug 17, 2006

If it's only for a night I can live without you

Yeticopter posted:

Considering that's the same weight and power as a Cooper S it's certainly nothing to scoff at. Not to mention a drag coefficient that probably makes the Mini look like a refrigerator.

The supercharged cooper S (up to 06) only had 160hp stock or so at the same weight.

e: 2006: stock 168 HP at 6k, 162 ft-lb at 4k compared to the supposed 200hp and 151 ft-lb . Toyobaru is lighter by a little bit and has no FI


Throwing a supercharger in the BRZ would be so fun

Nodoze fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Nov 3, 2011

Rabble
Dec 3, 2005



Pillbug

bull3964 posted:

WRX's start at $25k.

Miata starts around $22k. Considering that it's the first car on the comparison chart it would make sense that the FRS would be comparable price wise.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




why did subaru not call this the xt

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

bull3964 posted:

WRX's start at $25k.

Yikes. More fuel for the fire, IMO.

Rabble posted:

Miata starts around $22k. Considering that it's the first car on the comparison chart it would make sense that the FRS would be comparable price wise.

Yea miatas are priced high too if you ask me, but they're an even smaller niche (sports roadster) so they can get away with it. While the only real "competition" to this car is the genesis coupe and miata it seems like a $25k base is pricing itself poorly.

Miata will likely be a better handler/toy car, and the genesis coupe base will be a fatter, better equipped, and cheaper version of the toyobaru.

Of course I'm thinking most of the pricing is pure speculation at this point, so who knows what it will end up being.

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

why did subaru not call this the xt

The same reason they didn't call the baja the brat. The same reason they compare their ground clearance against SUVs when everyone knows soccer moms go for seating position and driver height.

Subaru is terrible at marketing.

blk
Dec 19, 2009


Any word on whether this is going to be a notchback or hatchback? I'm really hoping for the latter, with folding rear seats.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Notch.

MATLAB 1988
Sep 20, 2009
Have I posted about my Subaru XT yet? Here are pictures of my Subaru XT. POST POST POST.

oxbrain posted:

The same reason they didn't call the baja the brat. The same reason they compare their ground clearance against SUVs when everyone knows soccer moms go for seating position and driver height.

Subaru is terrible at marketing.

They just had to call the Turbo Trim level "XT" like 15 years after they stopped making the Subaru XT. Because everyone now knows "XT" stands for "equipped with a Mega Fuckin' Turbo & Xtreme Hood Scoop" they have to name their new sports coupe "the Subaru Burrs." Maybe a turbo version will be named Subaru BRZ WRX STI XT GL-10 2.0 TURBO

Wrar
Sep 9, 2002



Soiled Meat

D C posted:

I'm 6'4 and I have a tall torso, I barely fit in my s13 240sx.
I'm 6' 3" and mostly legs, I fit into S13s without any real trouble. Actually, I've never been in a car where I was more comfortable from a driving position standpoint.

D C
Jun 19, 2004

1-800-HOTLINEBLING
1-800-HOTLINEBLING
1-800-HOTLINEBLING


Wrar posted:

I'm 6' 3" and mostly legs, I fit into S13s without any real trouble. Actually, I've never been in a car where I was more comfortable from a driving position standpoint.

Yeah, my friend is the same height as me, but he's all legs as well, and he fits great in the s13, I have to recline the seat way back to get comfortable, an extended wheel hub did wonders for my driving comfort too.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




MATLAB 1988 posted:

They just had to call the Turbo Trim level "XT" like 15 years after they stopped making the Subaru XT. Because everyone now knows "XT" stands for "equipped with a Mega Fuckin' Turbo & Xtreme Hood Scoop" they have to name their new sports coupe "the Subaru Burrs." Maybe a turbo version will be named Subaru BRZ WRX STI XT GL-10 2.0 TURBO

oh yeah i forgot they were using it as a trim level now, that makes sense kindof

how about svx

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I had no idea this thing was going to be so goddamn light.

Well, if I luck into some spending money, it may be a race between a BRZ and a hypothetical Mazdaspeed2.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Rabble posted:

Miata starts around $22k. Considering that it's the first car on the comparison chart it would make sense that the FRS would be comparable price wise.

One thing though. I know the comparison to the Miata makes sense from a small RWD car perspective, but I don't know if I would consider it a full direct competitor simply from the fact that this is a coupe and not a convertible.

Yes, there is a large amount of overlap. However, I would say that this serves as more of successor to all the various FWD coupes that were so prevalent until recently like the Celica, RSX, Civic Si, or Tiburon; only in this case it happens to be RWD.

In that respect, I don't think it even has a direct competitor on the market right now. The Audi TT was mentioned before and I think it's an apt comparison, the same could be said for the Z4.

I wonder where the people who think the Miata would be the obvious choice over this car live because in less temperate climates a convertible holds limited appeal. One of the things I love about a car like this is I could drive it in the dead of winter as long as the roads were clear of snow (and even in the snow if the right tires were on the car.) I wouldn't have to worry about 8 inches of snow and ice sitting on a soft top overnight and developing leaks.

Impossible to use a convertible in such conditions? Not at all. Would I want to daily drive a full winter in a convertible? Hell no.

What can I say, I don't like having to put my toys away for a season.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



quote:

And, most intriguing of all, they say the platform is flexible enough to allow for a significant wheelbase stretch.


I've just had the best idea

oxbrain posted:

the brat.

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON


bull3964 posted:

One thing though. I know the comparison to the Miata makes sense from a small RWD car perspective, but I don't know if I would consider it a full direct competitor simply from the fact that this is a coupe and not a convertible.

I think the Miata is a good comparison from the standpoint that they're both lightweight RWD "sports cars" in the sub-$30k price range. Unless Mazda is being grossly unrealistic with what they can do with the Skyactiv platform, given a choice between the two I'd take the Miata if its really under 2000 pounds dry.

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006



Geoj posted:

given a choice between the two I'd take the Miata if its really under 2000 pounds dry.

Got any links to info on this? Because if that's what Mazda is shooting for it's loving awesome. Are there any concepts for the new Miata yet?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Geoj posted:

I think the Miata is a good comparison from the standpoint that they're both lightweight RWD "sports cars" in the sub-$30k price range. Unless Mazda is being grossly unrealistic with what they can do with the Skyactiv platform, given a choice between the two I'd take the Miata if its really under 2000 pounds dry.

A 2000lb dry miata, if they can pull it off, is an amazing thing. However, it still doesn't address any of the convertible shortcomings I mentioned. I really don't live in an area where I can enjoy a convertible. If they made such a thing into a coupe, it would be incredible.

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON


leica posted:

Got any links to info on this? Because if that's what Mazda is shooting for it's loving awesome. Are there any concepts for the new Miata yet?

Its all speculation but there's been a number of articles quoting a Mazda exec or someone on the design team that they have a goal of dropping 750 lbs off of the NC's current ~2400 lb curb weight...

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/08/...a-400-pounds-l/

E: ^ That article links to this one:

http://www.insideline.com/mazda/mx-...the-future.html

Geoj fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 3, 2011

Jean Eric Burn
Nov 10, 2007



Enh aren't the Z cars the most obvious competitors? They weigh a good chunk more but probably end up with comparable power to weight. Or did nissan kill them off? I don't even remember.

powderific
May 13, 2004



Grimey Drawer

bull3964 posted:

I wonder where the people who think the Miata would be the obvious choice over this car live because in less temperate climates a convertible holds limited appeal. One of the things I love about a car like this is I could drive it in the dead of winter as long as the roads were clear of snow (and even in the snow if the right tires were on the car.) I wouldn't have to worry about 8 inches of snow and ice sitting on a soft top overnight and developing leaks.

Impossible to use a convertible in such conditions? Not at all. Would I want to daily drive a full winter in a convertible? Hell no.

What can I say, I don't like having to put my toys away for a season.

I daily drove a mazdaspeed mx-5 for a few Nebraska winters. Though our winters aren't the worst out there, our snow removal leaves a lot to be desired. I regularly had it out around town in 8" plus snowfall blizzards and drove it up to South Dakota a few times in similar conditions. I guess I did clean off the whole car every time I got in. Somewhere like buffalo that gets a million inches of snow a year might not be the best for a convertible, but I enjoyed the poo poo out of mine despite the wintry months and know others who do the same.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




powderific posted:

I daily drove a mazdaspeed mx-5 for a few Nebraska winters. Though our winters aren't the worst out there, our snow removal leaves a lot to be desired. I regularly had it out around town in 8" plus snowfall blizzards and drove it up to South Dakota a few times in similar conditions. I guess I did clean off the whole car every time I got in. Somewhere like buffalo that gets a million inches of snow a year might not be the best for a convertible, but I enjoyed the poo poo out of mine despite the wintry months and know others who do the same.

I knew someone was going to talk about how they daily drove in the winter. That's fine. The point is I WOULDN'T want to and a lot of people feel the same way.

DEUCE SLUICE
Feb 6, 2004

I dreamt I was an old dog, stuck in a honeypot. It was horrifying.


Piano posted:

Enh aren't the Z cars the most obvious competitors? They weigh a good chunk more but probably end up with comparable power to weight. Or did nissan kill them off? I don't even remember.

About the same size, but way more HP and price.

I think the closest comparison to the Toyobaru would be the RX8, but the Miata, Mini S, and Veloster are probably all in the same ballpark as well. Genesis Coupe is similar in power and price, but it's a good bit heavier and a lot bigger.

kimcicle
Feb 23, 2003



Piano posted:

Enh aren't the Z cars the most obvious competitors? They weigh a good chunk more but probably end up with comparable power to weight. Or did nissan kill them off? I don't even remember.

In all the tech documents that so far have been leaked the comparisons are against the Miata, RX-8, and the CR-Z.

The Genesis is a closer competitors than the 370Z. 2+2 coupe notchback. Even though the back seats of the FT-86 might be only there to say that the seats exist, if it's a requirement (small children or whatever) then the Z is out of the question. Maybe it's closer to the Civic Type R?

Time for a power to weight chart!

370Z: 3232 lbs / 331 hp = 9.76 lb/hp
Genesis Coupe V6: 3389 lbs / 314 hp = 10.8 lb/hp
RX-8: 3029 lbs / 247 hp = 12.3 lb/hp
FT-86: 2707 lbs / 200 hp = 13.5 lb/hp
Miata (NC): 2410 lbs / 167 hp = 14.4 lp/hp
Genesis Coupe I4: 3294 lbs / 223 hp = 14.8 lb/hp
CR-Z: 2670 lbs / 122 hp = 21.9 lb/hp

This thought just crossed my mind; will the tC cause any issues with Scion selling the car?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



kimcicle posted:

In all the tech documents that so far have been leaked the comparisons are against the Miata, RX-8, and the CR-Z.

Even though the back seats of the FT-86 might be only there to say that the seats exist, if it's a requirement (small children or whatever) then the Z is out of the question.

So why is the Miata in the running?

quote:

This thought just crossed my mind; will the tC cause any issues with Scion selling the car?
I assume they're really build it up and sorta put the tC in the background.

DEUCE SLUICE
Feb 6, 2004

I dreamt I was an old dog, stuck in a honeypot. It was horrifying.


The tC's going to be at least $5k cheaper, and is more of a practical sporty econo-coupe deal anyways.

I think the CR-Z is in comparison documents as a size reference, not that it's going to actually be competing against it. If we're considering front drivers as competition, I'd put the theoretical Fiesta ST and the coming Veloster Turbo in there.

CAT INTERCEPTOR
Nov 9, 2004

I think you mean dont piss in the sink....again!

Geoj posted:

I think the Miata is a good comparison from the standpoint that they're both lightweight RWD "sports cars" in the sub-$30k price range. Unless Mazda is being grossly unrealistic with what they can do with the Skyactiv platform, given a choice between the two I'd take the Miata if its really under 2000 pounds dry.

I would also love to know how Mazda also has worked out cold fusion and FTL travel. Because that's how likely a sub 1000 kg MX-5 is these days - 2000lbs is 907 kgs for those that dont know moon units.

So either its the size of a Smart FourTwo or they have invented Unobtainium

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Internet Victory
Dec 10, 2005
The future is here. Internet!

Why is this still being called the FT-86? Isn't it officially now the Scion FR-S? Are they putting out a version with a toyota badge too?

Here it is at the nurburgring

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