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Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Peter North posted:

Who's 'we'? Because at large, we definitely don't.
This. Be intellectually honest and say "you" think it, and see who comes out to agree. Don't invent some invisible majority just so you're more comfortable saying something largely unpopular.

And the Dane Cook rant seems like something that's only worse because it lacks the context of being there. It probably was still as stupid and unfunny in real life as it was to read (maybe even moreso), but I feel like in person it would have come more from a desparate flailing attempt to reinvent himself and his career than an angry comic just having to "get all that out".

Space_Butler fucked around with this message at Jan 21, 2012 around 22:56

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DangerDummy!
Jul 6, 2009


Space_Butler posted:

And the Dane Cook rant seems like something that's only worse because it lacks the context of being there.

Unless he was being sincere, the "be respectful, Dane Cook is on stage" line is actually pretty funny. The rest of the stuff that's been quoted a dozen times already in this thread is just kinda weird and douchey. If that's going to be his new persona, like some kind of new version of Jim Norton, then more power to him I guess. I'm not a big Norton fan, and I can't honestly see myself gravitating to some sort of piss fetish Dane Cook.

Sexy Randal
Jul 26, 2006

woah

Comedy is pretty hard to judge outside of context. You could describe any comedian's more offensive work to someone and they'd sound like horrible people, but most of the time you'd be missing some other aspect of it. Maybe it's actually some kind of social commentary, or maybe the humour was actually in the absurdity or offensiveness of it.

Unless you actually hear it performed in context you have no way of knowing. With the Dane Cook stuff we don't have that context, so I think it's impossible for anyone to really know if it was that bad or not. The best we can get is second-hand descriptions from pissed off other comedians who may not be the most unbiased in this situation.

I think the real lovely thing is the bumping of the actual headliner that night. I understand that this is something that happens in comedy all the time, an established comedian showing up and doing time in someone else's slot, and I'm not sure what the accepted rules are in the comedy community, but I think if it's abused other comedians will hate you. Carlos Mencia was hated for doing that to people if I recall correctly.

Personally if I paid money to see a particular comedian and instead of seeing him I saw Dane Cook go up and do half-baked material instead, I'd be pretty pissed.

-Atom-
Sep 13, 2003

Contrarian Dick

Bad At Everything


If anybody wants to hear Dane's side (and you should can be found here) get the latest Ice House Chronicles with Joe Rogan, Ari Schiffer, Bert Kreisher, Brody Stevens and some other comics.

I'm actually completely in agreement with Dane.

Bunk Rogers
Mar 14, 2002



DangerDummy! posted:

I've never thought much about Dane Cook one way or another, but that sounded like some icky poo poo he was doing there, like on the level of a frat boy hitting an open mic on a dare. The best one of those was a guy I saw talking about eating maggots out of his dead grandmother's stinkyhole. Really witty stuff.

Bill Hicks?

DangerDummy!
Jul 6, 2009


Bunk Rogers posted:

Bill Hicks?

If that's a direct lift from a Hicks bit, then the guy's got bigger problems than a general lack of wit. Bill was definitely capable of that kind of material, but he'd generally do it if the crowd already hated him and he felt like making things worse.

MoPZiG
Jun 6, 2006



-Atom- posted:

I'm actually completely in agreement with Dane.

Yeah me too. TJ broke protocol and comes off like some moralizing prick trying to land a studio job or something. People get bumped, deal with it.

Bunk Rogers
Mar 14, 2002



TJ is on Pete Holmes podcast and its pretty clear they're both rear end holes.

BobbyHeenanTinyHat
Apr 1, 2005

Calling all girls of the opposite sex

N/A

BobbyHeenanTinyHat fucked around with this message at Aug 26, 2018 around 18:29

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

M1TCH3LL posted:

Since this seems to be American-centric, I'm curious as to what the American comedy fans here think about British comedians. Obviously, the easy name to pull out is Ricky Gervais who seems to be more revered in America than in the UK right now. But then you have comedians like David Cross and Louis CK singing the praises of Daniel Kitson, considered by many to be the best comedian in the country, as well as Stewart Lee who IS the best comedian in the country.

Almost as if by design, Stew is responsible for one of my favourite handlings of finding an audience member recording the show via phone. It wasn't off the boil or anything - it was reserved, it made a point, and it was funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7aLiIL75q0 (4:40 in).

I think a huge problem is just lack of exposure.

I'd like to think I keep up on British comedians, but the reality is that most British comedians I know are either ones who have already crossed the pond and are known for being "the British one" like, say, Jon Oliver, or the slightly high profile ones that I would see on popular sitcoms or on panel shows like QI, Would I Lie To You, etc. And those cases, I have to go out of my way 90% of the time to see this material since it's not widely available to Americans, and if I want to see more of them outside of that it's very difficult to do.

I think it's much easier for the British to know our slightly more underground standups because they're still fairly prominent in media that makes it over there, even if its just getting bit parts in our sitcoms or movies. Either that or it seems like British comedians don't tend to tour the US as prominently as US comedians do abroad. When I go to something like NYCF, it's still mainly American comedians. From what I hear, things like the Edinburgh festival draw much more international performers.

I only recently heard of Kitson because he was promoting his (excellent) theater piece in NYC and he wound up a surprise stand-up guest on a show I go to often. And when I went looking for more of his stuff, it's really hard to find. And even though I know who Stewart Lee is and have enjoyed his material here and there, outside of crawling Youtube for low-quality, short clips, how can I see more of him? Import his Region 2 DVDs that won't work in my computer?

While if I wanted to hear the newest Patton Oswalt comedy CD, I could download it from a ton of different sources, see him when he comes touring through to promote it, see him on Comedy Central, or hell, I could listen to it for free on Spotify.

It really is a shame and I hope it's something that continues to improve as the comedy resurgence continues.

feedmyleg fucked around with this message at Jan 24, 2012 around 19:07

Howdy
Jan 25, 2005


M1TCH3LL posted:

Since this seems to be American-centric, I'm curious as to what the American comedy fans here think about British comedians. Obviously, the easy name to pull out is Ricky Gervais who seems to be more revered in America than in the UK right now. But then you have comedians like David Cross and Louis CK singing the praises of Daniel Kitson, considered by many to be the best comedian in the country, as well as Stewart Lee who IS the best comedian in the country.

Almost as if by design, Stew is responsible for one of my favourite handlings of finding an audience member recording the show via phone. It wasn't off the boil or anything - it was reserved, it made a point, and it was funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7aLiIL75q0 (4:40 in).

Will be checking out Kitson and Lee, thanks.

I've heard some of Frankie Boyle's stuff and enjoyed it -- curious what the perception of him is over there?

CharlesWillisMaddox
Jun 6, 2007

by angerbeet


M1TCH3LL posted:

Since this seems to be American-centric, I'm curious as to what the American comedy fans here think about British comedians. Obviously, the easy name to pull out is Ricky Gervais who seems to be more revered in America than in the UK right now. But then you have comedians like David Cross and Louis CK singing the praises of Daniel Kitson, considered by many to be the best comedian in the country, as well as Stewart Lee who IS the best comedian in the country.

I think Eddie Izzard is one of the top five funniest people I have ever heard.

j8910
Apr 2, 2002


M1TCH3LL posted:

Obviously, the easy name to pull out is Ricky Gervais who seems to be more revered in America than in the UK right now.

Hmm? How is Gervais perceived in Britain right now?

Beef Jerky Robot
Sep 20, 2009

"And the DICK?"


I don't know that Gervaise is revered in America. He hosted the Golden Globes a few times and was "shocking", but it's not like he's known for his stand -up.

Urk!
Sep 5, 2008

goobers


Most Americans today probably know him from the Golden Globe stuff first and from creating The Office (UK) second, with stand-up being a veeeeery distant third.

Thelonius Van Funk
Apr 7, 2007
Oh boy


I don't think many people anywhere would or should primarily associate Gervais with standup

MoPZiG
Jun 6, 2006



M1TCH3LL posted:

Since this seems to be American-centric, I'm curious as to what the American comedy fans here think about British comedians. Obviously, the easy name to pull out is Ricky Gervais who seems to be more revered in America than in the UK right now. But then you have comedians like David Cross and Louis CK singing the praises of Daniel Kitson, considered by many to be the best comedian in the country, as well as Stewart Lee who IS the best comedian in the country.

In general I find that UK and US standup are two completely different kettles of fish, probably owing to their unique origins - the theater and jazz clubs.

ButtWolf
Dec 30, 2004

Hey, you want a toothpick?


Not real crazy about Gervais. I'd never liked British humor, but then I found out British humor isn't just The Office and Keeping Up Appearances. I love John Oliver and Stewart Lee. Never heard of Kitson, but excited to.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

jimcunningham posted:

Not real crazy about Gervais. I'd never liked British humor, but then I found out British humor isn't just The Office and Keeping Up Appearances. I love John Oliver and Stewart Lee. Never heard of Kitson, but excited to.

Have you tried, say, Peep Show? It seems to be extremely palatable to most Americans I know.

BobbyHeenanTinyHat
Apr 1, 2005

Calling all girls of the opposite sex

N/A

BobbyHeenanTinyHat fucked around with this message at Aug 26, 2018 around 18:29

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

Josie Long is really funny and awesome

BobbyHeenanTinyHat
Apr 1, 2005

Calling all girls of the opposite sex

N/A

BobbyHeenanTinyHat fucked around with this message at Aug 26, 2018 around 18:28

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

Who are British comedians like Josie Long

DangerDummy!
Jul 6, 2009


Ricky Gervais as a stand-up reminds a bit of Kevin James. Ricky's material is a little too precious for my liking, and Kevin's is incredibly pedestrian. They are both excellent performers, though. Between Ricky's HBO sets and "Sweat the Small Stuff" (I think?), I laugh a lot in spite of the weak writing and have a great time watching them.

edit: I actually just cracked up thinking about Kevin James' schtick equating eating a Big Mac to a bear getting hit with a tranq dart. It's too goddamn bad he made friends with Adam Sandler, he might have actually been in a couple of amusing movies.

DangerDummy! fucked around with this message at Jan 27, 2012 around 08:29

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

he was in Hitch, whih owns

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

DangerDummy! posted:

Ricky Gervais as a stand-up reminds a bit of Kevin James. Ricky's material is a little too precious for my liking, and Kevin's is incredibly pedestrian. They are both excellent performers, though. Between Ricky's HBO sets and "Sweat the Small Stuff" (I think?), I laugh a lot in spite of the weak writing and have a great time watching them.

edit: I actually just cracked up thinking about Kevin James' schtick equating eating a Big Mac to a bear getting hit with a tranq dart. It's too goddamn bad he made friends with Adam Sandler, he might have actually been in a couple of amusing movies.

Yeah, I remember seeing a special of his and being blown away by how much he shirked my low expectations. The guy's got talent, but hey, in his position I'd probably take the millions too.

HoAssHo
Mar 10, 2005



Fan of Britches

Last night, because I have some friends who love her, I watched an uncensored Margaret Cho stand-up special aired on Logo and I seriously cannot believe how unfunny it was. The crowd went loving BUCK. WILD. though because the whole act is built on pandering to gay people. Also, a bunch of stuff about her vagina and anus. "Obnoxious" is an inadequate description.

About a half hour in, I decided it might be funny to rewind it to the beginning and count how many times she uses certain words during the ~90-minute performance. Here are my findings:

Vagina/pussy: 32

Gay/lesbian/fag/dyke: SIXTY-SEVEN (this number would've been a lot larger if I had counted queer, bi, butch, twink and bear as well)

(I didn't think of counting uses of anus or rear end in a top hat until it was too late but she told us about her rear end in a top hat at 4 separate, unconnected points during the evening. Charming).

She ended the show with a 4-5 minute-long song about how much she likes to have her pussy eaten.

To be clear, I have no problem with any of these topics as I'm amongst those who she's attempting to pander to, but it was all so repetitive and lacking in cleverness of any kind that I was honestly left baffled by her popularity. I chuckled only once and I don't even remember the joke - and I love stand-up.

I know she's been around forever and I somewhat recall her talking about being Korean all the time in the 90's, but if anyone here is more familiar with her work, I have to ask: was she always this bad? Has she ever made you laugh?

HoAssHo fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2012 around 12:45

inferis
Dec 30, 2003



Does anyone else also not like this thing that is popular?

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.


College Slice

SammyWhereAreYou posted:

I know she's been around forever and I somewhat recall her talking about being Korean all the time in the 90's, but if anyone here is more familiar with her work, I have to ask: was she always this bad? Has she ever made you laugh?

I'm really only familiar with her earlier 90s stuff. I thought she was funny back then, but I don't remember being impressed from my admittedly small exposure to her more recent performances. I phrase it that way because I honestly don't remember any of the jokes or my laughing at anything. I do remember a sense of her ranting and pandering more than anything, but again, I don't remember anything specific, so maybe I'm not being fair to her.

HoAssHo
Mar 10, 2005



Fan of Britches

inferis posted:

Does anyone else also not like this thing that is popular?

What are you even saying? I'm giving my impression of a stand-up special in the the stand-up thread and asking how other people view the comedian's work and if they think she has gotten better or worse over the years.

I'm not hating on her because she's popular but because the special I saw was obnoxious and unfunny and it surprised me because I know how popular she is. I don't see how this is conceptually any different than the Dane Cook discussion earlier in this thread - or really any post made on SA that criticizes a thing that is popular.

ibntumart posted:

I'm really only familiar with her earlier 90s stuff. I thought she was funny back then, but I don't remember being impressed from my admittedly small exposure to her more recent performances. I phrase it that way because I honestly don't remember any of the jokes or my laughing at anything. I do remember a sense of her ranting and pandering more than anything, but again, I don't remember anything specific, so maybe I'm not being fair to her.

Yeah, this is basically how I felt about her until I really sat down and intently watched her special last night: a general sense that she had changed into a different kind of comedian over the years, (becoming huge in the gay community in the same way that Kathy Griffin, and more recently, Lisa Lampanelli have) and in the limited exposure I had to her, I thought she seemed less funny than I remembered but I had no strong feelings about her either way.

I should note that I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with being popular in the gay community or talking about gay issues but when you say gay/lesbian/fag/dyke 67 times in a 90 minute set, your motives seem fairly transparent.

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

inferis posted:

Does anyone else also not like this thing that is popular?
That's not what he asked and you know it.

SammyWhereAreYou posted:

I know she's been around forever and I somewhat recall her talking about being Korean all the time in the 90's, but if anyone here is more familiar with her work, I have to ask: was she always this bad? Has she ever made you laugh?
Her 90's stuff was much better, but that's because she was one of the most prominent Asian comics at the time and she had to try harder to stay at the top. Even though her act entirely boiled down to impressions of her mother and a couple hackneyed "white people dont understand ____________ about Asians" jokes, I remember laughing at some of her earlier specials.

As for how she is now, yeah it seems like she's just pandering with an easy set. She outed herself as bisexual around 2000 or so, and since then figured out she could make a ton of cash and build up an extremely loyal fanbase by playing to the LGBT crowd. As far as the reaction you heard, that seems pretty par for the course from my experience. I've never heard an LGBT crowd express any kind of disapproval or ambivalence towards an LGBT-aimed act. Everything seems like the funniest thing they've ever heard, and the laughs are like a Carlin set from the late 70's.

Then again, I can see why her act is so lazy. If you were guaranteed to get huge laughs no matter what you say, would you really go to the ends of the Earth to make sure your act was solid?

HoAssHo
Mar 10, 2005



Fan of Britches

No, I can't fully blame her. Comedy is hard and not everyone can crank out a brilliant new hour every year like Louis CK, even if they are a generally funny person. I'm sure that for most of us, if we could find a way to continue doing what we love without having to work half as hard, we would jump at the chance. I can't imagine that it's as satisfying though. If she really has a love of stand-up, phoning it in can't feel as good to her as legitimately killing with great material.

As far as the Carlin in the 70's Effect you mention, I think it might be that the people who are attracted to LGBT comedy are not necessarily people who are also comedy nerds in general. They're new to all of this and therefore may be a bit easier to please than those of us in this thread. They're just thrilled that someone is writing jokes about them that celebrate them rather than diminish them, so they will lap up every last bit of it. I can't fully blame them either but it doesn't feel as good as being killed with legitimately good material.

BrooklynBruiser
Aug 20, 2006


Last Saturday I went to see Susie Essman (from Curb Your Enthusiasm) do standup, and she was loving AWESOME. She didn't really have much of a set or many bits, they were basically little bridges between her joking with and about the audience. I love when comedians do a lot of audience stuff, 'cause it really feels like a more unique show.

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010



durr

little munchkin fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2012 around 01:34

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Bobby Malone posted:

So you don't have a problem with gay people, but you:

Go out of your way to talk poo poo about them?
Rewatched the special in order to document how much it did not fit your personal definition of good comedy?
Consider the tastes of gay people as a culture inferior to yours?

I'd love to hear your opinions of Def Comedy Jam, can you make some charts about how many times they say 'friend of the family' and the frequency of them doing a goofy white person voice?

Unless I'm misinterpreting this:

SammyWhereAreYou posted:

The crowd went loving BUCK. WILD. though because the whole act is built on pandering to gay people.
...
I have no problem with any of these topics as I'm amongst those who she's attempting to pander to
I think he's gay. Now re-read your post and see how stupid what you just said is. Then, try contributing a real post to the conversation instead of a hollow accusation of homophobia.

Space_Butler fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2012 around 01:18

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010



Space_Butler posted:

Unless I'm misinterpreting this:

I think he's gay. Now re-read your post and see how stupid what you just said is. After that, try posting a real point instead of an accusation of homophobia.

Oh, I'm sorry man. I gotta read things more closely.

I still don't think her focus on LGTB stuff is just pandering or laziness though. She's spoken about how horrible the experience with her sitcom was, I think her change in comedy style was a reaction to that.

:shh: I don't think she's funny either

HoAssHo
Mar 10, 2005



Fan of Britches

If I was talking about, say, Larry the Cable Guy and I documented how many times he said "git er done" or talked about beer and pickup trucks (or whatever that guy talks about, I don't know) and was amazed by the audience losing their poo poo over his non-jokes, no one would have a problem with it.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!


Another gay guy who can't stand Cho and Lampanelli et all. It feels exactly like pandering, she's not really making any jokes she's just kinda going "HEY! GAY STUFF! YEEEEEEEEEA!" and like, yea ok I'm down with that but there's nothing actually funny or entertaining in that.

If I remember right she's rather active in the gay rights fight and all, so gotta give her respect for that, but I don't think since the early 90's I can think of a special/set of hers that I found funny rather than just going 'yep, I agree with her statement, good for her'.

BrooklynBruiser
Aug 20, 2006


The Conan O'Brien episode is fascinating and hilarious, highly recommended.

Somehow I posted in here when I meant to post in the Nerdist thread.

BrooklynBruiser fucked around with this message at Feb 14, 2012 around 12:33

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Popelmon
Jan 24, 2010

wow
so spin


BrooklynBruiser posted:

The Conan O'Brien episode is fascinating and hilarious, highly recommended.

Were you looking for the Nerdist thread? Because I'm really looking forward to listening to that episode.

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