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feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

indigi posted:

If by "it really only works for established acts" you mean "the only two people to do it that I personally know of to this point in time have been established acts" then sure. Seems really silly to completely write off a brand new distribution model based on no evidence.

Looking inside of the stand-up world, you're right. However, looking outside of that there has been plenty of precedent set for this not working. Just look at the webcomic crowd after Scott McCloud tried to popularize micropayments.

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indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

There's a huge difference in the market between comedy albums, which have always cost money, and webcomics, which have always been free. Getting people to pay for things they have never paid for and are actually used to not paying for is a much taller order than asking people to buy things they've always bought in a somewhat different way. That's why most podcasts have failed getting people to pay for regular content in anything other than a freemium/donation model.

Bands, comics, and other performers at even low to mid levels have been able to sell cards with download codes on them for a while now at live events and buying albums on iTunes is fairly routine. This is just a slight adjustment to that.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

indigi posted:

There's a huge difference between comedy albums which have always cost money and webcomics which have always been free. Getting people to pay for things they have never paid for and are actually used to not paying for is a much taller order than asking people to buy things they've always bought in a somewhat different way. That's why most podcasts have failed getting people to pay for regular content in anything other than a freemium/donation model.

Well I think the difference is that the faster growing base of people absorbing comedy today aren't used to paying for comedy albums, because they're young and grew up in a world where stand-up wasn't something to buy on CD or even DVD. Clips on Youtube are the biggest source out there for most people, then comedy specials on TV and on Netflix (which doesn't feel like paying for one specific thing), then there's podcasts featuring favorite stand-ups and more recently Spotify and Pandora that have access to tons of comedy albums - not to mention piracy. That plus the fact that a lot of standups are featured on fan-favorite television shows as well means that they're much closer to the same level. I'm 25 and I've bought probably two comedy albums in my life, not because I'm pirating but because there are so many other ways to get this material most of the time.

If I want some stand-up for free, it's as easy as looking at a webcomic. Yours is the sort of thinking that caught the film studios off guard when broadband access exploded - they easily could have looked at what happened to the music industry and compensated accordingly, but they weren't forward thinking. There isn't a direct parallel there because we're talking about micropayments for unestablished acts, but I think yours is a faulty line of logic.

feedmyleg fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2012 around 20:47

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

I wasn't arguing against micropayments at all, I think they're a fantastic idea. You're the one who asserted that this venture could fail because it did for webcomics. You didn't address my actual point, which was that the audience for comedy specials/albums have traditionally paid for them despite how easy it may be to procure the same (or similar) content for free via youtube, file sharing, catching sets on Conan/Letterman etc., while the audience for webcomics and podcasts have overwhelmingly never had to pay for anything, and it takes a while to train consumers to spend money on something that was universally free until very very recently - that's the key difference. It's difficult to compare two products that are so different in terms of audience, distribution, marketability, and history.

indigi fucked around with this message at Mar 22, 2012 around 00:28

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

indigi posted:

I wasn't arguing against micropayments at all, I think they're a fantastic idea. You're the one who asserted that this venture could fail because it did for webcomics. You didn't address my actual point, which was that the audience for comedy specials/albums have traditionally paid for them despite how easy it may be to procure the same (or similar) content for free via youtube, file sharing, catching sets on Conan/Letterman etc., while the audience for webcomics and podcasts have overwhelmingly never had to pay for anything, and it takes a while to train consumers to spend money on something that was universally free until very very recently - that's the key difference. It's difficult to compare two products that are so different in terms of audience, distribution, marketability, and history.

Sorry, I guess I didn't word things well. I wasn't saying you were against micropayments, I was arguing against micropayments. And I did address your actual point, because I'm saying the market has changed. An audience traditionally paying for something doesn't mean they'll continue to do so as new channels of distribution present themselves. There have always been comics available for free, just like there's always been comedians available to see on TV or hear on the radio, but that doesn't mean that comics didn't also come from an industry where tons of people paid for them and then the market changed.

I agree that the markets are very different, I just think its very backward-thinking to assume that because people have traditionally paid for something they'll continue to do so despite changes in the market landscape. I think the argument against micropayments for webcomics is the same one as the argument against micropayments for untested stand-ups who lack means of built-in advertising. That being said, there are successful pay-webcomics out there, just like there will be a handful of stand-ups that its successful for - but if I have a buddy who is doing the stand-up circuit in Chicago like a few hundred others, micropayments won't do anything for him.

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006

I'm A Lonely Boy


Aziz will do fine. He's certainly a big enough stand up act that he has and continues to tour the country as a pure headliner. He's also very internet/social media literate and has cultivated a strong fan base through his former sketch career, current Parks and Rec bit, side movie roles, and stand up.

Now if a guy like John Mulaney decided to go the release his stand up show on his own route I think his returns would be very small. In the comedic world John is pretty big and continues to grow but at large basically no one knows who that is unless they really care about comedy.

Bubba Smith
Sep 27, 2004

Is tonight the greatest moment in Dominick Cruz's life?

No.

The greatest moment in my life was realizing that I didn't need a belt to be happy.


soggybagel posted:

Now if a guy like John Mulaney decided to go the release his stand up show on his own route I think his returns would be very small. In the comedic world John is pretty big and continues to grow but at large basically no one knows who that is unless they really care about comedy.

I've been a fan of stand-up for like ten years and that's the first time I've heard the name (or at least I never paid attention the few times I may have heard it). So that gives you an idea on how hard it would be for a guy like that to do well.

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006

I'm A Lonely Boy


Bubba Smith posted:

I've been a fan of stand-up for like ten years and that's the first time I've heard the name (or at least I never paid attention the few times I may have heard it). So that gives you an idea on how hard it would be for a guy like that to do well.

That's my point. There are varying degrees of success both mainstream and perceived within the confines of the so called comedy world.

Urk!
Sep 5, 2008

goobers


A new Dana Gould Hour dropped today. Pretty nice since it's been a once-a-month schedule and he's released one already this month.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


If you were thinking about doing an EPIX trial so you can watch Lewis Black's new special Rust In Peace...don't.

I feel so bad for him now. It seems like every year he put out a new special and every year I watch it in the hopes that the fire he had comes back. But nope, more dead spots, more recycling of material, more pity applause from the audience instead of laughter.

I'm glad he's able to sell tickets and make a living but I can't imagine he's happy with the reception he's getting. Or who knows, maybe he's the same as Ron White and is just happy with the money because gently caress everything else.

Law Cheetah
Mar 3, 2012


Bill Burr trashes Alternative Comedy (from his podcast):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CQmzbmV7j0

I rarely go to see live comedy so I don't know anything about the scene, this is pretty interesting. I've heard Marc Maron talk about this before, too. He phrased it like "Comedians playing to a room full of comics"

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


What a dummy.

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

I WANT to understand what he's talking about but he gives no solid examples or scenarios, so I can't be totally sure who he's directing this at. He also namedrops David Cross but most people today would consider his act something that the alternative and hipster crowd is drawn to. Does that inadvertedly make David Cross the target of this rant? Who knows, because he didn't say one solid point. That was a lot of loose rambling that sounded like the kind of thing you think up at 3 in the morning and go "oh poo poo, Im gonna write this down and go into this deeper tomorrow", then you wake up and half forget what you were talking about.

Law Cheetah
Mar 3, 2012


Space_Butler posted:

I WANT to understand what he's talking about but he gives no solid examples or scenarios, so I can't be totally sure who he's directing this at. He also namedrops David Cross but most people today would consider his act something that the alternative and hipster crowd is drawn to. Does that inadvertedly make David Cross the target of this rant? Who knows, because he didn't say one solid point. That was a lot of loose rambling that sounded like the kind of thing you think up at 3 in the morning and go "oh poo poo, Im gonna write this down and go into this deeper tomorrow", then you wake up and half forget what you were talking about.

He's saying alternative comedy rooms are too safe of a space and that alternative comedians dont build up the skillset that club comics do. He complains that alternative comedians just blame it on the crowd when they bomb in mainstream rooms. He also complains that alternative comedians think club comics are a bunch of hacks. He goes on to say that that grandaddies of the Alt Comic movement, such as David Cross, were and are beastly club comics in their own right who would kill in mainstream rooms.

Rub the sleep outta yer eyes before you listen to youtubes

Law Cheetah fucked around with this message at Mar 29, 2012 around 20:03

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Law Cheetah posted:

He's saying alternative comedy rooms are too safe of a space and that alternative comedians dont build up the skillset that club comics do. He complains that alternative comedians just blame it on the crowd when they bomb in mainstream rooms. He also complains that alternative comedians think club comics are a bunch of hacks. He goes on to say that that grandaddies of the Alt Comic movement, such as David Cross, were and are beastly club comics in their own right who would kill in mainstream rooms.

Rub the sleep outta yer eyes before you listen to youtubes
But early on he was also complaining about the people who these comics are catering to. He was bitching about pretty much everything revolving around alternative comedy.

As far as him saying all alternative comics think club comics are hacks, that may be a prevailing sentiment, but there there ARE hacks across all genres of standup. A mediocre club comic who gets by with some chuckles from saying "stinkyhole" a lot doesn't make them any funnier than a mediocre alternative comic.

In general, this was kind of an "old man ranting" clip, which Burr is usually well above. He's usually really great at recounting specific stories and incidents which help prove whatever he's saying (in his act on when sitting in on radio shows). This was just a lot of "gently caress this, gently caress that, half name drops one guy who is kind of an rear end but doesnt really have much to do with what was being said previously".

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

Yeah it was some "get off my lawn" poo poo. Who says every comedian should have to be able to perform to every audience, or that starting out should be a harrowing experience? Plenty of bands started out (and continue) playing to polite rooms full of people exactly the same as themselves. Not everyone has to play to every crowd in every venue.

Bubba Smith
Sep 27, 2004

Is tonight the greatest moment in Dominick Cruz's life?

No.

The greatest moment in my life was realizing that I didn't need a belt to be happy.


indigi posted:

Yeah it was some "get off my lawn" poo poo. Who says every comedian should have to be able to perform to every audience, or that starting out should be a harrowing experience? Plenty of bands started out (and continue) playing to polite rooms full of people exactly the same as themselves. Not everyone has to play to every crowd in every venue.

You're missing part of his argument. He's saying that when alternative comics bomb in front of an audience that isn't their base, they blame the audience for being dumb instead of their material for not being very good.

Your average comic is so used to playing every kind of venue (college/urban/corporate/southern/etc.) that they know what kind of material works for each. They don't just pompously blame the crowd for not getting their brilliant comedy when it doesn't work. Because they aren't children.

So no, it wasn't just some "get off my lawn" poo poo.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

Bubba Smith posted:

So no, it wasn't just some "get off my lawn" poo poo.
Sure it was, because of the way he framed it. I never said he didn't make any salient points, but the main thrust of the rant was back-in-my-day stuff.

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Bubba Smith posted:

You're missing part of his argument. He's saying that when alternative comics bomb in front of an audience that isn't their base, they blame the audience for being dumb instead of their material for not being very good.
If I can reverse that for the sake of argument, who does Bill blame if he works a crowd full of parents and "wholesome" people and gets nothing but disgusted stares? Who does a liberal political comedian blame if their set goes over poorly in a conservative town? SURELY they blame themselves for their material not being very good, right? Wrong.

Again, his argument would be a lot more meaningful if he also didn't lump the audience of alt comics into the target of his complaints. Being a comic who doesn't like what a certain kind of comic acts like is fine, but lumping the people who do enjoy it into his rant makes him sound like a condescending prick. It's no different to me than if I heard an alternative comic deriding club comics for their act revolving around saying poo poo/piss/aids/stinkyhole as the punchline to every joke, and also noting they think people who enjoy that are terrible.

It all goes back into this juvenile "turf war" mentality bullshit a lot of East Coast comedians seem to have. It's apt that he made the comparison to hair metal in the 80's, because Burr is sounding a lot like a musician who is at the tail end of their popularity cycle and hates the way tastes are changing. Nobody's threatening his place in the comedy world, but he's so insecure and angry about a bunch of nothing.

Space_Butler fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2012 around 05:06

Bubba Smith
Sep 27, 2004

Is tonight the greatest moment in Dominick Cruz's life?

No.

The greatest moment in my life was realizing that I didn't need a belt to be happy.


Space_Butler posted:

If I can reverse that for the sake of argument, who does Bill blame if he works a crowd full of parents and "wholesome" people and gets nothing but disgusted stares? Who does a liberal political comedian blame if their set goes over poorly in a conservative town? SURELY they blame themselves for their material not being very good, right? Wrong.

You're taking the exact opposite of two tastes and putting them up against each other. No poo poo a lewd act would go over badly in front of a family crowd. That is not the same as an alternative comic's act having such limited appeal that it does poorly with the majority of audiences the usual club comic does well in. And even then, it's totally fine for alternative comics not to appeal to everyone. That's actually a really good thing! But Bill makes it sound like most alt comics don't deal with criticism about their act at all. They avoid doing rooms that they know they would do bad in, but then trash those rooms because the audience is dumb. That's childish.

And remember, a club comic's audience is diverse. The audience is not nearly as concentrated as the typical alt comic's audience. They may get a mixture of all kinds of people who don't like their act, or they might get all fans. That is the risk the club comic takes, but they are prepared for whatever audience they get (most of the time). That is why Bill feels like the alt comic has no business trashing the audience the club comic performs in front of.

I agree that Bill Burr should not lump the fans of alternative comedy with the comics themselves. And I also don't agree with him saying that alternative comics are bad because they found a way to get rid of the "horrors" of stand-up comedy. All comics should try to do that as much as they complain about it. But if an alt comic knows they have limited appeal, but then they're mad at the world because of it and then call club comics hacks because they reach a larger audience than they can, then that's dumb and alt comics deserve to get poo poo for thinking that.

And I will say that Bill Burr did this off the top of his head while recording a podcast by himself. He knows it wasn't a well-thought-out rant, he even says as much at the end. I don't see why there needs to be such scrutiny over it.

Bubba Smith fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2012 around 05:57

DangerDummy!
Jul 6, 2009


I'm what a lot of people would classify as a nerd, but at the same time I get why a lot of people, typically, want to beat the poo poo out of 'em too. It goes double for nerd comics that go all passive-agressive and whiny towards a crowd that doesn't get their schtick.

It's odd that he doesn't throw Bill Hicks's name into his rant. He's what a ton of people would cite as the genesis of the alt scene, but there haven't been too many who have been more brutal to a "hostile" crowd.

His rant is atypically vague for him, but I understand fully what he's trying to convey (and whether I agree with him or not is a totally different story). He thinks that comics should be more like Lenny Clark or Nick DiPaolo, who've reacted to a crowd with physical violence, or at the very least Dave Attell or Louis CK who are a ton more cerebral in their crowd fuckery.

It's not worth pointing to who's right or wrong, because it's ultimately his opinion. But I can entirely understand his point of view, and even agree with certain aspects of it.

Yay Pudding!
Mar 26, 2010

Frrrrrrunkis


It's a tangent he went off on during his free 1 hour weekly podcast. (Brought to you by stamps.com, skatefender, and amazon.) He's one of the best working comics today, and, I will buy anything he puts out.

Unrelated, I just finished listening to Doug stanhope's new album, and thought it was good.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


Law Cheetah posted:

Bill Burr trashes Alternative Comedy (from his podcast):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CQmzbmV7j0

I rarely go to see live comedy so I don't know anything about the scene, this is pretty interesting. I've heard Marc Maron talk about this before, too. He phrased it like "Comedians playing to a room full of comics"

I actually agree with him to a point although he was scattershot about it. It's really two different complaints.

1) Some of these "alt-comics" only work in front of their niche audience.

This isn't that new. Doug Stanhope made part of that argument years ago. [Although Burr actually defended David Cross in his rant]

Doug Stanhope in 2006 posted:

[talking about being heckled by NASCAR fans] because I actually work those places unlike the David Crosses of the world who bitch and act like they are loving cool and blah blah blah. I like -- David Cross is just personally kind of a stinkyhole. I enjoy all of his work. I do. I like what he does but I go "you're a loving stinkyhole".

I've been in the trenches at Verdun, enjoyable human being. I didn't show up in Athens and wait for the geeks to show up. I fight the loving shitheads to their face...to the point where my act suffers because I come in front of a crowd that likes me and I go "well, that's not going to work. that's written as a fight and you agree with me"

It's equivalent of what SammyWhereAreYou was talking about, earlier in the thread, about Margaret Cho destroying in front of her crowd not by telling jokes but by pandering to them.

Or another Stanhope story about Ron White buying jokes from his friend, Andy Andrist and how Ron said something like "what I do is buy funny jokes, take the teeth out of them and then they [the crowd] applaud"

Which leads to...

2) Fake nerds.

People who look like supermodels (or actually are) pretending to be nerds now that it's trendy. The new equivalent of a hot girl saying "People think I'm this way but I'm really just a guy's girl. My perfect day is just sitting around watching football and cheering on *insert popular team*." It comes off as fake. And now it's "People think I'm this way but I'm really just kind of nerdy. I like playing video games and watching zombie movies and *whatever other nerd poo poo is in the mainstream right now*"

Olivia Munn, Chris Hardwick, Adrianne Curry. They are the type of people who throw out a reference in the hopes of getting a pop. "Wow, he/she mentioned World Of Warcraft or zombies or bacon...they're one of us *applause*"

That goes back to him talking about comics pretending to be awkward backstage, saying they are a fan of his but dumping on club comics onstage, calling a crowd dumb because they don't react to a meme the way their crowd would.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2012 around 07:52

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!


"Fake nerds" is the dumbest, most privileged, thing ever. I have no idea how Munn and Hardwick aren't nerds by any metric other than bitter people desperately clinging to their persecution complex declaring them not meeting a random benchmark of social reject. It's fitting the only comparison you can make is that 'I like football' thing because it's also an insane 'HEH a GIRL liking my insular hobby?! Yea right, attention whore!' thing.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


Glitterbomber posted:

"Fake nerds" is the dumbest, most privileged, thing ever. I have no idea how Munn and Hardwick aren't nerds by any metric other than bitter people desperately clinging to their persecution complex declaring them not meeting a random benchmark of social reject. It's fitting the only comparison you can make is that 'I like football' thing because it's also an insane 'HEH a GIRL liking my insular hobby?! Yea right, attention whore!' thing.

It goes back to the pandering thing. I'm not saying everybody who doesn't fit a certain criteria is a fake but there is a big difference between somebody saying they like something in a conversation like a normal human being and somebody wrapping their entire identity around something trendy while waving a wave of the most mainstream aspect in the hopes of selling whatever they are pitching.

If that example offended you, how about the rap community? Replace hot girl and popular football team with a backpacker who only listens to nerdcore/Sage Francis/whatever. The analogy isn't important. It's the fakeness. That's what Burr was trying to get across.

- edit And I'll even say Burr's hair metal analogy is good just for the fact that nothing works forever. Those bad alt-comics may work now but there will come a time where that falls out of style and they will crash and burn hard.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2012 around 08:36

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

Um. Munn and Hardwick are nerds because that's how they were treated during their formative years and despite how handsome/beautiful and successful they are they're still into nerd poo poo. Nerd doesn't mean "ugly and unpopular" just because that's what you were. Hardwick loves Dr. Who, when do you think you'll see Chris Rock make a Tardis reference. Just cause they're pretty and successful doesn't mean they aren't nerds anymore.

e: and lovely alt comics don't "work" now. just cause the audience at the UCB or Meltdown or Rafiki or wherever don't heckle or throw poo poo or mercilessly boo doesn't mean the comedian is doing well. Hack, poo poo comedians can make it at UCB or at Caroline's on a weekly basis for a while, but if they don't have talent they won't advance past there, no matter the mainstreamness or alternativeness of the venue.

indigi fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2012 around 09:06

Beef Jerky Robot
Sep 20, 2009

"And the DICK?"


The hair metal analogy is stupid because weird alternative comedy has been around forever and will always be around as long as there are people with a weird sense of humor.

BrooklynBruiser
Aug 20, 2006


Glitterbomber posted:

"Fake nerds" is the dumbest, most privileged, thing ever. I have no idea how Munn and Hardwick aren't nerds by any metric other than bitter people desperately clinging to their persecution complex declaring them not meeting a random benchmark of social reject. It's fitting the only comparison you can make is that 'I like football' thing because it's also an insane 'HEH a GIRL liking my insular hobby?! Yea right, attention whore!' thing.

Yeah, agreed here - I dunno about Munn, but I've met Hardwick, and his nerdiness is quite genuine.

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.


College Slice

indigi posted:

Um. Munn and Hardwick are nerds because that's how they were treated during their formative years and despite how handsome/beautiful and successful they are they're still into nerd poo poo. Nerd doesn't mean "ugly and unpopular" just because that's what you were. Hardwick loves Dr. Who, when do you think you'll see Chris Rock make a Tardis reference. Just cause they're pretty and successful doesn't mean they aren't nerds anymore.

e: and lovely alt comics don't "work" now. just cause the audience at the UCB or Meltdown or Rafiki or wherever don't heckle or throw poo poo or mercilessly boo doesn't mean the comedian is doing well. Hack, poo poo comedians can make it at UCB or at Caroline's on a weekly basis for a while, but if they don't have talent they won't advance past there, no matter the mainstreamness or alternativeness of the venue.

All of this.

BrooklynBruiser posted:

Yeah, agreed here - I dunno about Munn, but I've met Hardwick, and his nerdiness is quite genuine.

I haven't, but I did see him at a Benson Interruption and his joy and reverence for the Time Bandits map Adam Savage gave him just before heading to the venue seemed pretty heartwarmingly genuine.

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Beef Jerky Robot posted:

The hair metal analogy is stupid because weird alternative comedy has been around forever and will always be around as long as there are people with a weird sense of humor.
Spot on. Like I said before, Burr's mentality is not a response to anything really new, it's just another part of this awful "comedian turf war" bullshit that's been going on for years, where some comedians view their form of comedy as an underdog against a rising tide of something else. Burr was trying to be a little diplomatic with his "and I actually LIKE the following alt comics" thing compared to those comments where Stanhope was just pissing and moaning, but it's ultimately the same thing.

I genuinely feel a lot of this sentiment comes from a lot of older "club comics" being bitter and frustrated that they missed their chance to hit it big. They're going to continue killing everywhere they go, but they're past the age of being hired as a writer or given their own show. They realize that what they're doing now is going to be what they're doing till the day they die, and it kills them. Meanwhile, so many of the alt comics end up getting sitcom deals, writing deals, getting huge gigs because their videos go viral on YouTube. Then again, I've heard many huge comedians say they've intentionally turned down big deals and refuse to "sell out", but then they end up complaining regardless.

It's not to say I don't understand why they're so bitter, I do, and I'd feel the same way in their position. But it's a lot easier to listen to something if a comic says "I'm pissed off and here's why" rather than disguising it as some brilliant dissection of the current status of an art form.

Zesty Mordant
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

I just can't imagine the idea that a room full of comics and/or comedy nerds is somehow a less demanding and scrutinizing audience than just "anybody else"

Bubba Smith
Sep 27, 2004

Is tonight the greatest moment in Dominick Cruz's life?

No.

The greatest moment in my life was realizing that I didn't need a belt to be happy.


big business sloth posted:

I just can't imagine the idea that a room full of comics and/or comedy nerds is somehow a less demanding and scrutinizing audience than just "anybody else"

Because the comedy club brings an audience that sometimes has no familiarity with the comedian at all. They just hear there is a "comedy show" happening and show up. That is how you end up with old ladies who get offended and leave the room, hecklers who don't find anything the comic says funny and want to ruin the show, drunk assholes who are bored and interrupt the show, and so on. It's way different than a club full of comedy nerds which is typically what alternative acts perform in front of. That audience understands what they're in for. Bill is completely right that it is a much more accepting environment. Even other comics who do scrutinize the comedian on stage, know not to heckle or rudely talk on their phone and other poo poo. Cause they know how much that sucks.

Now, you wouldn't be wrong to say that it's stupid to complain about alternative comics having a "safer" environment. All comedians want that. But if you don't see the difference between the two audiences then you really don't know much about stand-up comedy. Like Bill says, that's like doing stand-up with training wheels on to a club comic.

soggybagel
Aug 6, 2006

I'm A Lonely Boy


I said this in the other comedy podcast thread but it really was Bill being Bill for Bill's sake. He defends some of the more entrenched comics like Cross and he even admits that he's kind of ranting and that this wasn't well thought out. It's just him venting which he does where he says random and occasionally stupid poo poo.

I'm of two minds of the whole thing. I think if you really listen to what he's saying he is telling some truthful things and he is saying some stupid off base things. I'm meeting him in the middle.

Bubba Smith is absolutely right about the differing crowds. The type of people who will randomly go to a comedy club and not know anything about a comic and just go are the type of people who will simply say "I WANT TO GO SEE A MOVIE" and not know any of the movies playing and just pick one based off the poster or something. It sounds weird as hell but I've seen it happen numerous times. The weirdest ever being an two older women who walked in to Kill Bill and left around the time Lucy Liu's character decapitated a guy. But there certainly is a different vibe at a comedy club versus say you going to the UCB Theatre and watching Comedy Bang Bang's standup. The CBB audience is ready to laugh. It's very supportive. A comedy club is practically like an open mic if its not a big headliner, in that you really have to earn the laughs.

The whole fake nerds argument is so loving tired and annoying. Certainly people pander no one is denying that. But I'm so loving sick of some internet poop socker going off on some message boards or something decrying how someone who god forbid is actually attractive and appeals to more than just a narrow band of miscreants is a poser and a fake nerd. If anything this should be flattering. But yes, pandering exists. And it bothers people including myself because it is lazy and often the attempts are transparent. But someone like Olivia Munn doesn't bother me one bit. In fact I'll defend her any time of day simply for the reason that she is someone who is working in entertainment who happens to obviously be working very hard.

The Burr rant was simply him in front of a mic going off making some interesting points and I think he is actually on mark with some of it. It was unfocused though and as I said up top, he conceded himself that he was just kind of going off. I'll be interested to see if anyone directly addresses him.

Gooch
Oct 30, 2006



I hope he and Bobby Kelly do have a discussion about this on one of their podcasts. Because on Kellys last cast he was talking to an alt promoter or something in Austin and it sounded like he was starting to agree on the logistics and benefits of working an alt venue as apposed to working a club.

Yannick_B
Oct 11, 2007


soggybagel posted:

The whole fake nerds argument is so loving tired and annoying. Certainly people pander no one is denying that. But I'm so loving sick of some internet poop socker going off on some message boards or something decrying how someone who god forbid is actually attractive and appeals to more than just a narrow band of miscreants is a poser and a fake nerd. If anything this should be flattering. But yes, pandering exists. And it bothers people including myself because it is lazy and often the attempts are transparent. But someone like Olivia Munn doesn't bother me one bit. In fact I'll defend her any time of day simply for the reason that she is someone who is working in entertainment who happens to obviously be working very hard.


I hate the whole fake nerds argument as well. Like in Olivia Munn's case, if you're a host at Attack Of The Show daily, for YEARS it would be dumb to not try to please or serve that audience--thats your main audience.

Its grating to hear personalities say they're "huge nerds" (it has become the new "I was hideous as a child" refrain) because they've seen Star Wars but so what?

BobTheCow
Dec 11, 2004

That's a thing?


What the hell is Norm Macdonald doing on his Twitter right now? I mean, he's obviously (very meticulously) calling golf, but... why? I keep looking for a joke, but none has come.

https://twitter.com/#!/normmacdonald

thecopsarehere
Jul 25, 2008



Maybe the joke is that a "twittercast" of the Masters (esp. on Thursday) is about the only thing more boring/pointless than watching it on TV. Or, why would someone rely on Twitter for golf commentary anyway, especially since it's a game dominated by old white dudes?

I say this as a golfer who appreciates that watching golf can be interesting/exciting at times.

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


I think he likes golf. He's been doing it for years I think.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004



Pillbug

Myq Kaplan was almost tolerable on this week's You Made It Weird.

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thecopsarehere
Jul 25, 2008



jyrka posted:

I think he likes golf. He's been doing it for years I think.

Whatever the reason it's lead to comedy in the past: http://deadspin.com/5892317/rick-re...e-favor-tenfold

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