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Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


I'll never understand why comedians get so mad when they find out somebody is filming them as they perform. Doug Stanhope is another one who rants about that whenever he is given a chance.

They are performing in public. Yes, twenty years ago, you could have workshopped a joke in public with no fear of it being heard by anybody outside of that small crowd but it is a different time now. Everybody has a small device that can record audio and video.

A comparison like this

quote:

It's the equivalent, to me, of sitting at a table in a coffee shop or library, writing the first draft of a short story, or screenplay or, were I a musician, song lyrics, and having someone walk by, whip the sheet away from me, snap a pic with their camera

is loving retarded. A band who performs a new song during a concert doesn't whine or get pissy when somebody takes a lovely cellphone video of it because they know exactly what they are getting into. They are performing in public. It comes with the territory.

I also don't get the idea of "this is for my special, you are ruining it". The vast majority of the people who watch the special are the same group of people who don't go on YouTube to watch various audience recordings. A non-soundboard bootleg can't compare to a professionally filmed special. I guess you could say that the spontaneity of the joke has been compromised but they usually run a nationwide tour before releasing a special anyways.

This is the highest viewed Patton Oswalt recording I could find that wasn't a soundboard recording. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R69_mZj6YWo 230,123 views over five years which isn't that much.

As a fan of stand up comedy, I love bootlegs. It's extremely interesting to hear comedians try to work out material or hear the different way they word things in the heat of the moment. It's also great for when a comedian, like Mitch Hedberg, suddenly dies. All that material they were workshopping isn't lost into the ether.

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Beef Jerky Robot
Sep 20, 2009

"And the DICK?"


It doesn't matter if it's good for comedy or bad for comedy or whatever. If a comic doesn't want to have their poo poo recorded, and askes someone not to do it, you act like a polite adult and respect that.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


Beef Jerky Robot posted:

It doesn't matter if it's good for comedy or bad for comedy or whatever. If a comic doesn't want to have their poo poo recorded, and askes someone not to do it, you act like a polite adult and respect that.

Agreed but, on the flipside, if you are performing in public, you should try to not lose your poo poo if you notice somebody is recording you.

Would we have even heard of this if Patton just called for security and had the lady removed?

Ches Neckbeard
Dec 3, 2005



Sporadic posted:

Agreed but, on the flipside, if you are performing in public, you should try to not lose your poo poo if you notice somebody is recording you.

Would we have even heard of this if Patton just called for security and had the lady removed?

That was part of the problem it was just some restaurant that happened to be having a comedy show that night. There was no security to deal with it and the management probably had no idea something like that would/could be a problem.

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Sporadic posted:

I'll never understand why comedians get so mad when they find out somebody is filming them as they perform. Doug Stanhope is another one who rants about that whenever he is given a chance.
Be honest, you DO understand, because it's incredibly obvious and you're an intelligent person. You just don't like it.

Sporadic posted:

Agreed but, on the flipside, if you are performing in public, you should try to not lose your poo poo if you notice somebody is recording you.

Would we have even heard of this if Patton just called for security and had the lady removed?
Depends on if the self-righteous, passive-aggressive woman who wrote the blog would find that objectionable.

And why shouldn't comics lose their poo poo? Maybe if more people were shamed and embarassed at these places, they won't pull that kind of crap anymore. Especially when the jeers and boos of the audience are directed at said individual. These people aren't likely to wake up one day and decide "I should no longer record people by default!" on their own.

There's nothing EXPLICITLY saying these people cannot record stuff in a public space. You're right. That doesn't mean that it's totally cool to do BY DEFAULT. Obviously, people are going to record stuff on their phones, but you need to think about WHY these people record. Are they recording to share material that isn't final yet? That's a wrong thing to do, especially if they're so-called "fans". Are they doing it to have a personal copy for themselves of stuff that isn't out yet? Less harmful, but still not morally clean. Are they doing it as proof they were at an event with someone famous? Well, it's not like people would doubt that Patton Oswalt was found in a comedy club. On top of all that, above all, it's incredibly obnoxious, obvious, and distracting, for both the performer AND people in the crowd. Sorry if you think comedians should "get over it", but I say "gently caress these people" because THEIR lovely giant phones are blocking my view of something happening in REAL LIFE.

Again, people are going to record stuff, that's a fact. However, there's a big difference in context and intent between someone whipping out their cameraphone on the streets of LA because Gary Oldman is drinking coffee on the corner, and recording in-progress material at a show Patton was doing for free, spontaneously, for fans.

Space_Butler fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2012 around 00:27

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


Space_Butler posted:

Be honest, you DO understand, because it's incredibly obvious and you're an intelligent person. You just don't like it and are disguising your objections in the form of some grand mystery.

Depends on if the self-righteous, passive-aggressive woman who wrote the blog would find that objectionable.

And why shouldn't comics lose their poo poo? Maybe if more people were shamed and embarassed at these places, they won't pull that kind of crap anymore. Especially when the jeers and boos of the audience are directed at said individual. These people aren't likely to wake up one day and decide that "I should no longer record people by default!"

Kind of. I know the reasons they state but I think it goes deeper than that. It most likely boils down to power. The same type of thought process that caused the head of the MPAA to compare VHS to the Boston Strangler. And yeah, I wish that comedians I enjoy would be above that.

Why shouldn't comics lose their poo poo? For the same reason they should try to control themselves when it comes to hecklers. If the person is doing it in such an obnoxious manner that the performer can notice, calling them out won't embarrass or even shame them. It will only encourage them to continue or give them a story. It's the same reason why Louis C.K cut out him destroying a heckler in his latest special. He doesn't want to reward them for their lovely behavior. (But let's be clear, I don't think recording is on the same level as heckling unless the person is being retarded with their flash, holding it way above their head or attempting to cram the device right in the performer's face)

Why do people record? Memories fade. They want to preserve what they are seeing since every performance is different. Maybe they do want to share it with others for whatever reason. Is that really that big of a deal if they do? Is Patton's upcoming special really ruined if some lady uploaded a piece of a bit he is working on to YouTube?

And I had no idea that he was performing at a restaurant. If the idea of somebody recording him while he's working on new material bothers him that much, why would he work a venue without security?

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Sporadic posted:

And I had no idea that he was performing at a restaurant. If the idea of somebody recording him while he's working on new material bothers him that much, why would he work a venue without security?
Because it was an unannounced, spontaneous, free show. And things like this are going to make a lot of comics, going forward, really reconsider doing stuff like this. People want to record stuff instead of experiencing it and walking away with memories in their head instead of on a shaky, lovely camera? Well then the whole class doesn't get to go out to recess because of them.

FitFortDanga
Nov 19, 2004

Nice try, asshole



Sporadic posted:

Is Patton's upcoming special really ruined if some lady uploaded a piece of a bit he is working on to YouTube?

Yes. People have an expectation when they watch/listen to/go see comedy that they're going to hear material they haven't heard before. It's not like going to see a band play your favorite songs. The element of surprise is often critical for the humor to work.

BobTheCow
Dec 11, 2004

That's a thing?


Sporadic, it's clear you didn't read Oswalt's response. Go back to my last post and see what he had to say, because it addresses a lot of the points you bring up. You should also read the Dave Anthony bit in the past few posts, which is another excellent summation and explanation.

quote:

I also don't get the idea of "this is for my special, you are ruining it". The vast majority of the people who watch the special are the same group of people who don't go on YouTube to watch various audience recordings. A non-soundboard bootleg can't compare to a professionally filmed special. I guess you could say that the spontaneity of the joke has been compromised but they usually run a nationwide tour before releasing a special anyways.
Furthermore, this is patently false. You may be that way, and even me, and maybe even some folks looking at or posting in this thread. We are all the minority, by a long shot. By even paying attention to something like this, we are already more aware and more informed than the general populous, which is the same general populous that allows comedians to make a living at all... not that it matters, because spoiling an act is still loving wrong regardless, but it would be even less likely to cross somebody's mind who is unaware of the whole working of things beforehand.

e:

FitFortDanga posted:

Yes. People have an expectation when they watch/listen to/go see comedy that they're going to hear material they haven't heard before. It's not like going to see a band play your favorite songs. The element of surprise is often critical for the humor to work.
Agreed. Daniel Tosh does a bit on Tosh.0 where he rips on an audience member for interrupting, but the reason it was so interesting to me is because Tosh didn't talk about how that fan was just heckling, but about the illogical fact that he was going out of his way to ruin brand new jokes for a paying audience expecting new material, in order to request repeat material that he already knew.

BobTheCow fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2012 around 06:43

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


Space_Butler posted:

Because it was an unannounced, spontaneous, free show. And things like this are going to make a lot of comics, going forward, really reconsider doing stuff like this. People want to record stuff instead of experiencing it and walking away with memories in their head instead of on a shaky, lovely camera? Well then the whole class doesn't get to go out to recess because of them.

Let's be honest. This is nothing new. Various comics have been showing up unannounced at random comedy clubs to workshop new jokes for a long time now.

If Patton wants to take his ball home over this then gently caress him. Let him stick to screenwriting or acting. Other comedians already a) begrudgingly accept that it will happen or b) don't give a poo poo.

BobTheCow posted:

Sporadic, it's clear you didn't read Oswalt's response. Go back to my last post and see what he had to say, because it addresses a lot of the points you bring up. You should also read the Dave Anthony bit in the past few posts, which is another excellent summation and explanation.

Um, I quoted a piece of it in my original post. He didn't address most of the points I brought up and neither did Dave Anthony's bit (but it was a brilliant deconstruction of the original blog post)

FitFortDanga posted:

Yes. People have an expectation when they watch/listen to/go see comedy that they're going to hear material they haven't heard before. It's not like going to see a band play your favorite songs. The element of surprise is often critical for the humor to work.

But fans are the same people who go out to see the tour before the special is filmed. Do they have the reaction of "I saw these jokes live months ago. This blows " when they watch the special? Why would a YouTube clip be any different? Who, other than the most hardcore fans (or people who were at the show live), would attempt to watch that poo poo?

People go both ways. People have heckled Doug Stanhope to do old material and others have heckled Mitch Hedberg by yelling out the punchlines to old material.

Wording the joke in a slightly different fashion or adding an tiny addendum can breath new life into old material.

- edit And I tried to find an audience recorded clip of Patton performing in 2011 or 2010 to show what the normal quality of something like that is like but couldn't find one.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2012 around 07:58

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

Sporadic posted:

If Patton wants to take his ball home over this then gently caress him. Let him stick to screenwriting or acting. Other comedians already a) begrudgingly accept that it will happen or b) don't give a poo poo.
Do you even listen to yourself? Other comedians do NOT just do one or the other. You mentioned how Stanhope does this only a couple posts ago! So you're contradicting yourself.

As for me, I hope he continues to do these things, and continues to berate these useless assholes that record material in progress. I'll continue to applaud these actions and enjoy their sets, since what they contribute to the arts is so much more worthwhile and interesting than what these wannabe-documentarians do. I hope other comedians continue to do it too.

If anything, this has encouraged me moreso to see Patton live, because the real fans are now aware of this incident, and will come down harder on any assholes who try this. Maybe that means I can see a show without some shitbag holding his giant 4G phone in my line of sight.

Space_Butler fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2012 around 08:24

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe


Space_Butler posted:

Do you even listen to yourself? Other comedians do NOT just do one or the other. You mentioned how Stanhope does this only a couple posts ago! So you're contradicting yourself.

No, Stanhope is under a) begrudgingly accepts that it will happen. Yes, he complains about it all the time (most recently on Joe Rogan's podcast when he was high on acid) but one of his bits is (off the top of my head) "Fans come up to me before a show and ask if they can bootleg it. IT'S NOT A loving BOOTLEG IF YOU ASK ME! Now I'm going to be standing up here sweating my balls off because you are going to put this on the internet when I suck. Why even ask? Won't you feel cooler if you think I'm against it?"

I don't think he would compare it to somebody snatching his notebook out of his hands while he's writing and taking pictures of it.

He also hates filming specials.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Sporadic posted:

They are performing in public.

loving lol if you genuinely believe a place you have to pay to get into counts as "in public" you inveterate dunce

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


Completely melting down over people recording your show is probably the hackiest bit going right now.

WerthersWay
Jul 21, 2009



Inveterate Dunce was the name of my post-rock project in the late 90s.

Space_Butler
Dec 5, 2003


Fun Shoe

jyrka posted:

So a comedian threw a hissy fit.

jyrka posted:

Completely melting down over people recording your show is probably the hackiest bit going right now.

2 pages, 2 posts, 0 substance.

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


Eh. It just annoys me slightly when comedians act like children. But not enough to write a lot of words about it. Swings and roundabouts, isn't it.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Not really since what Patton did wasn't childish and you've done nothing but prove that you're incapable of behaving otherwise

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


Oh well. It's all swings are roundabouts, isn't it.

COUNTIN THE BILLIES
Jan 8, 2006

by Ion Helmet


Just because it happens a lot doesn't mean it's right. I wish cell phones could be checked at doors so this wouldn't happen.

Also, the belief that recording someone's image in public without their permission is an okay thing to do, this why I never leave my bed covers.

Lastly, I don't think Myq Kaplan is very funny at all.

drawkcab si eman ym
Jan 2, 2006



John Mulaney's stand up special is coming out on the 28th and I'm very excited. I love his writing on SNL and all of the podcasts/stand up I've seen him in. One of my favorite comedians out there.

isnt that right
Dec 8, 2009



drawkcab si eman ym posted:

John Mulaney's stand up special is coming out on the 28th and I'm very excited. I love his writing on SNL and all of the podcasts/stand up I've seen him in. One of my favorite comedians out there.

I've heard a couple tracks off his cd on Pandora and they're absolutely hilarious so I'm really looking forward to this too.

WerthersWay
Jul 21, 2009



There's a clip out there from CC promoting Mulaney's special where he pretends he's a Def Jam comic from the mid-90s. You should probably watch it.

Howdy
Jan 25, 2005


That's fantastic. Saw him open for Aziz a while back and knew nothing about him, he KILLED. Couldn't buy tickets to see him at the Improv when he came around fast enough. Had no idea about the special.

drawkcab si eman ym
Jan 2, 2006



Yeah, the comedy central clips are hilarious. It's on Comedy Central at 10 PM Eastern on Saturday the 28th. Here's the link:

http://www.comedycentral.com/press/...w-in-town.jhtml

drawkcab si eman ym fucked around with this message at Jan 13, 2012 around 07:14

Evil Agita
Feb 25, 2005

Lord Fool, give me another chance. I'll prove my strength to you!

COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:

Lastly, I don't think Myq Kaplan is very funny at all.

I agree. Myq Kaplan seems to always be trying to come off showing that he's smart, which totally makes me not want to like him.

abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010



Myq Kaplan was the best thing about Keith & the Girl back when I listened to it, so I'll always defend him to the death, though his stand-up isn't that great by comparison to his podcast appearances.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

He's got the same problem a lot of linguistics/semiotics guys do in that they think their intelligence in those areas just sort of spills over into everything else cause their field sort of touches on all areas of human expression and knowledge but really they don't know jack poo poo about anything aside from whatever liberal arts classes their colleges may have required of them

ButtWolf
Dec 30, 2004

Hey, you want a toothpick?


I know it was in the the dawn of the thread, but Jeselnik is a jokesmith and I love it. I don't necessarily have a problem with someone having a persona onstage. Almost every comedian lies in their jokes, so what's the difference? Either way, I hope he does well? Anyone hear about Dane Cook imploding last night?

Urk!
Sep 5, 2008

goobers


jimcunningham posted:

Anyone hear about Dane Cook imploding last night?

Hmm...not until you brought it up. Here is a brief summary of what you're talking about, I think. Ouch.

Edit: apparently AV Club has some adware crap on it. The link is here, so click at your own risk.

Taken from the site:

The AV Club posted:

Last night, audiences at Los Angeles’ The Laugh Factory were treated to a surprise set from comedian Dane Cook—and by “treated to,” we mean “bombarded with,” and by “set,” we mean “the egotistical ramblings of a narcissist who has lost all touch with humility and quite possibly humanity.” At least, that’s the basic gist of several eyewitness accounts from some of the comedians who were there—some of whom, like Daniel Kinno, found themselves bumped so that Cook could take the stage for as long as he wanted while he worked out new material, a raw process of discovery that Kinno describes thusly: “Watched him spiral for 45 minutes before I left. Could have been worse, he could have done his act.”

YouTube star Jenna Marbles was slightly less charitable or pithy, saying, “Dane Cook took a poo poo on everyone. Might as well have been literally.” And stand-up comic and Late Night With Jimmy Fallon writer Ali Waller provided a more specific appraisal, saying, “Glad Dane Cook stopped by the Improv tonight, otherwise I'd never hear the story about how he ‘chainsaw-hosed’ a ‘disgusting whore's stinkyhole.’” (Aww, you missed that? Yes, you missed that.)

But no one offered a more detailed—or more scathing—review than comedian and actor T.J. Miller, who spent last night and much of this morning unspooling his assessment not only of Cook’s set, but his entire career and current state of mind. Here it is, in chronological order:


“loving Dane Cook is eating [poo poo] at the laugh factory. He bumped [Bobby Lee] and is being just mean… The hubris of this man unfortunately led to his fall, but I'm afraid he is a damaged man & well, that's about it. He [is] certainly not a comedian… Watching him try and work through his own poo poo on stage when he is saying, ‘Go gently caress a dirty whore. That's the best therapy.’ #lord… Dane. You've been doing standup for so many years and you still believe it’s okay to bomb and talk about your issues? You. Didn't. Earn This…

I remember hearing [about] someone named 'Dane Cook' in college on Napster. I heard Harmful If Swallowed after college… Then there was a backlash (there always is, it's inevitable), but it grew. It was more than I could believe, and it was due in part to him… I liked him. His snake bit, a lot of sort of absurdist stuff. Suddenly he was on SNL, he was the 'king' of MySpace, [and] he was famous. Good Luck Chuck and Vicious Circle sealed his fate in contemporary culture.

And then last night, he got on stage and was vicious, misogynistic, cruel, and arrogant. He talked about not paying for an abortion. He talked about finding some whore to gently caress to take out his anger at his ex-girlfriend. He talked about how girls would do anything for him ‘because I'm me.’ He got mad when people were texting. ‘Dane Cook is onstage,’ he said. ‘Have some loving respect.’

Here's an idea, Dane: have some loving respect for the audience that gave you the chance to be what you dreamed of being, and don't be mad at them because you hosed it all up from hubris and thirst for fame. Don't disrespect the people that gave you a chance. Don’t do an hour of mean-spirited trash. And Dane Cook, certainly don't ask anyone to feel sorry for you. If you are the person you were onstage last night then you are not a good person. And the way you talk about women is disgusting and pathetic, but really just hurtful. So Good Luck Chuck. [You] need all the luck in the world to realize you need to go to therapy & figure out how to not be a hateful person. Stop performing until [you] do so.”

Cook has yet to comment on (or notice, perhaps) either Miller’s review or his own performance, although he did respond to one fan’s expression of gratitude for stopping by, saying, “Incredible night. Felt connected/something special happening.” Sooo.... “special” like “forging a bold new comic voice” special? Or like “chainsaw-loving a dirty whore’s stinkyhole” special?

Urk! fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2012 around 16:39

ButtWolf
Dec 30, 2004

Hey, you want a toothpick?


I hope Dane Cook kills himself.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



You know, I've been wishing for ages for Cook to have a horrific meltdown.

This is everything I wanted, except it had to involve funny people being bumped from their time.

DangerDummy!
Jul 6, 2009


I've never thought much about Dane Cook one way or another, but that sounded like some icky poo poo he was doing there, like on the level of a frat boy hitting an open mic on a dare. The best one of those was a guy I saw talking about eating maggots out of his dead grandmother's stinkyhole. Really witty stuff.

Peter North
Apr 23, 2003


I see the guy in a different light after hearing various interviews about what he's gone through and the Louie appearance, so I am sort of tempted to attempt a defense of Dane Cook. The best argument I've heard on this is that if Louis CK said "chainsaw-loving a dirty whore's stinkyhole," which he would, those same people would think it was genius. Or what they thought when Chappelle was doing the exact same thing at the exact same place. It sucks that people got bumped, but TJ Miller's overreaction for Dane being too offensive is horrible/hypocritical.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHvxmYSNv68

I don't know if it's the idea of Dane alienating his audience that's funny, but this is way better than his normal stuff. No, really, it is. Bumping people is lovely indeed but had the set went well it would be a story of begrudging respect for Dane doing some real comedy instead of doing his stupid act for college girls.

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005

[A]sk me about OS/2 WARP


Rogan has mentioned Dane a few times, he always holds back and just does this tight-lipped "man, he really went for it and promoted the heck out of himself and got a bunch of success really fast!" thing, but I really want to think that he wants to unload but knows better than to stoop down to that level.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Peter North posted:

The best argument I've heard on this is that if Louis CK said "chainsaw-loving a dirty whore's stinkyhole," which he would, those same people would think it was genius.
Yeah because if Louie CK said that there'd be a layer of irony built in due to his personality and perspective while everything Dane said adds up into a big misogynist rant. If that's the best argument to defend Dane he's going to the chair for sure

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



Peter North posted:

I see the guy in a different light after hearing various interviews about what he's gone through and the Louie appearance, so I am sort of tempted to attempt a defense of Dane Cook. The best argument I've heard on this is that if Louis CK said "chainsaw-loving a dirty whore's stinkyhole," which he would, those same people would think it was genius. Or what they thought when Chappelle was doing the exact same thing at the exact same place. It sucks that people got bumped, but TJ Miller's overreaction for Dane being too offensive is horrible/hypocritical.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHvxmYSNv68

I don't know if it's the idea of Dane alienating his audience that's funny, but this is way better than his normal stuff. No, really, it is. Bumping people is lovely indeed but had the set went well it would be a story of begrudging respect for Dane doing some real comedy instead of doing his stupid act for college girls.

What if we think CK is an unfunny douchebag who hides behind 'irony', and ALSO think storming into a club for your crazy misogynist rant is unacceptable? But do go on how funny 'chainsaw gently caress her dirty stinkyhole' is because it's not for those dumb college bimbos

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

It's my new shirt



If you do not think Louis CK is at all funny I'm not sure why you are in the stand up thread.

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


A Louis CK backlash? I love it! Count me on the bandwagon.

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Peter North
Apr 23, 2003


Glitterbomber posted:

What if we think CK is an unfunny douchebag who hides behind 'irony'

Who's 'we'? Because at large, we definitely don't.

quote:

and ALSO think storming into a club for your crazy misogynist rant is unacceptable? But do go on how funny 'chainsaw gently caress her dirty stinkyhole' is because it's not for those dumb college bimbos

Look, the set didn't go well, and you get a bunch of people calling him out for being gross on the internet. I think Dane is trying to reinvent himself and become an angry east coast comic like his other pals are/were. He still has the right to attempt it in the first place regardless of what you think the boundaries in comedy are. They didn't like it and they didn't like getting bumped for it either. Both of those things happen in comedy clubs quite regularly.

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