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Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

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Tezcatlipoca posted:

^^^If you've ever made short ribs you treat them in a similar way. Sear then braise. You can smoke them too. Oxtail is really greasy so be careful with that.

Yeah I'm a bit worry about how greasy it might be. My plan for this batch is to cut off the fat as much as possible, cook them with the bones in, and then remove the bits before chilling. Can I do the same thing with oxtail, or do I need to cut it up before I dump in the chili?

Any thoughts on cutting down the grease? My current batch is 4.5 pounds of short ribs, 1 pound of country sausage, and a pound of oxtail. I'm worried it might be too much fat though. Worst case scenario I put the oxtail with the rest of the marrow bones and oxtail I was planning on using for stock (so 6 pounds of marrow/meat instead of 5).

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Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
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Goons are trash and a putrid forum culture is the reason why nobody new registers. At best you're 30+ year old failed twitter "comedians" and tolerate this pig because he has the same normie sports hobby as you do.


You could skim the chili but taking out the bones would be a huge pain in the rear end. I'd cook them separately so pulling the meat off becomes easy and you don't have to worry about so much fat. Sear them, deglaze the pan with your stock and braise them while the rest of your stuff cooks. If there isn't too much fat the Mexican in me says to sear a corn tortilla and crumble it into the chili as a roux/thickener.

Tezcatlipoca fucked around with this message at Oct 12, 2018 around 20:51

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

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The Mexican in you is wise.

Ben Nevis
Jan 20, 2011


Tezcatlipoca posted:

Edit for your edit: 5 lbs of meat I'd probably add a tsp each of Worcestershire and fish sauce or 2 anchovies. That doesn't seem like nearly enough chilis. I'd probably double that.

I always do fish sauce. I worry about the other flavors in Worcestershire, they're pretty distinct. Does it come out OK?

I kinda want to make a bunch of chili using all different umami sources. Soy sauce, vegemite, miso, gochujang, fish sauce, kombu, parmesan rind... The possibilities are endless!

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Tezcatlipoca posted:

I'd cook them separately so pulling the meat off becomes easy and you don't have to worry about so much fat.

In my opinion, this is exactly the opposite of what you should do: the great thing about oxtail is the amazing amount of flavour you get from the bones, and cooking them separately is just a giant waste. Cook them in the chilli, then take some time to fish out the bones after the meat falls of them, making sure to scoop out and incorporate the marrow. Iíve done it before, itís a bit of a faff, but good food is worth a little care and attention, and you will get a better end result if you cook the meat bones and all in the chili.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
https://i.imgur.com/xhkDqVS.jpg

Goons are trash and a putrid forum culture is the reason why nobody new registers. At best you're 30+ year old failed twitter "comedians" and tolerate this pig because he has the same normie sports hobby as you do.


Ben Nevis posted:

I always do fish sauce. I worry about the other flavors in Worcestershire, they're pretty distinct. Does it come out OK?

I kinda want to make a bunch of chili using all different umami sources. Soy sauce, vegemite, miso, gochujang, fish sauce, kombu, parmesan rind... The possibilities are endless!

I like the sweet/tangy flavor of Worcestershire but I usually have a lot of bitter flavors in my chili that need to be offset. Try poo poo out and see what you like.

Scientastic posted:

In my opinion, this is exactly the opposite of what you should do: the great thing about oxtail is the amazing amount of flavour you get from the bones, and cooking them separately is just a giant waste. Cook them in the chilli, then take some time to fish out the bones after the meat falls of them, making sure to scoop out and incorporate the marrow. Iíve done it before, itís a bit of a faff, but good food is worth a little care and attention, and you will get a better end result if you cook the meat bones and all in the chili.

You can still reduce the braising liquid and add it to the chili without the trouble of fishing out tiny bones from a giant cauldron of brown goop. Get on my level.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

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If I use oxtails to make stock would the meat still be good for chili?

Dr. Gitmo Moneyson
Jun 26, 2005

Feels good man.



BraveUlysses posted:

look if you really just want to add some smoke flavor add some liquid smoke and save yourself a bunch of time

I mean the stock is gonna take a number of hours to make anyway, so I might as well smoke something a little while that happens.

Speaking of which:

Tendales posted:

Step 3 is the simmer. Put the bones in a pot. Deglaze your roasting pan and scrape all the stuck bits into the same pot. Add any aromatics or veggies you're going to use, if any. (I only add garlic, onion, and whole black peppercorns, if I bother adding anything at all. You're making stock, not stew. Also, don't salt your stock. Save your seasoning for the actual dish you make with it later.) Cover everything in water, bring to a slow boil, then ease off to a steady simmer. Cook for anywhere from 8 to 24 hours on the stovetop. This is the exact thing that a pressure cooker really shines for, it can cut the cook time down to a couple hours.

I read in another thread that putting vegetables in stock for longer than an hour or so makes the veggies put out bad flavors. c/d?

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
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Goons are trash and a putrid forum culture is the reason why nobody new registers. At best you're 30+ year old failed twitter "comedians" and tolerate this pig because he has the same normie sports hobby as you do.


Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

If I use oxtails to make stock would the meat still be good for chili?

All the flavor will leech into the water and you might as well make pho or something instead.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

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That's what I figured but wanted to ask.

neogeo0823
Jul 4, 2007

NO THAT'S NOT ME!!


Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:

I read in another thread that putting vegetables in stock for longer than an hour or so makes the veggies put out bad flavors. c/d?

D. That has to be patently false with just a few exceptions. When you make stock, good stock, you're simmering everything for like 8 hours or more. Typically, I'll use carrots, celery, onions, and spices like peppercorns and bay leaves. None of that results in "bad flavors" in the stock. The only vegetables I can think of that'll add "bad flavors" are cruciferous ones like broccoli and brussels sprouts, but you should not be using those anyway.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
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Goons are trash and a putrid forum culture is the reason why nobody new registers. At best you're 30+ year old failed twitter "comedians" and tolerate this pig because he has the same normie sports hobby as you do.


neogeo0823 posted:

D. That has to be patently false with just a few exceptions. When you make stock, good stock, you're simmering everything for like 8 hours or more. Typically, I'll use carrots, celery, onions, and spices like peppercorns and bay leaves. None of that results in "bad flavors" in the stock. The only vegetables I can think of that'll add "bad flavors" are cruciferous ones like broccoli and brussels sprouts, but you should not be using those anyway.

Some herbs will turn bitter but that's what bouquets and sachets are for.

dy.
Dec 6, 2003



neogeo0823 posted:

D. That has to be patently false with just a few exceptions. When you make stock, good stock, you're simmering everything for like 8 hours or more. Typically, I'll use carrots, celery, onions, and spices like peppercorns and bay leaves. None of that results in "bad flavors" in the stock. The only vegetables I can think of that'll add "bad flavors" are cruciferous ones like broccoli and brussels sprouts, but you should not be using those anyway.

This dude trolled up the smoking meats thread like none other, so engage with caution.

Dr. Gitmo Moneyson
Jun 26, 2005

Feels good man.



neogeo0823 posted:

D. That has to be patently false with just a few exceptions. When you make stock, good stock, you're simmering everything for like 8 hours or more. Typically, I'll use carrots, celery, onions, and spices like peppercorns and bay leaves. None of that results in "bad flavors" in the stock. The only vegetables I can think of that'll add "bad flavors" are cruciferous ones like broccoli and brussels sprouts, but you should not be using those anyway.

I found the post. From the Cajun/Creole thread:

holttho posted:

In a stock, it's recommended that vegetable matter to be cooked no longer than about 90 minutes. More than that and you will see the stock get murky in both appearance (which is fixable) as well as flavor (less so). The things basically just start to degrade and you'll end up with a pot of muck; all the fresh and aromatic flavors we want are extracted within an hour provided you diced it all well enough beforehand.

Fish and seafood need similarly short stock times- only heavy beef bones need the all-day dinner to extract their goodness.

neogeo0823
Jul 4, 2007

NO THAT'S NOT ME!!


Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:

I found the post. From the Cajun/Creole thread:

Ah, I remember that now. You accidentally ruined a good amount of seafood by throwing in whole shrimps to simmer up a stock. The advice given to you then was in regards to seafood stock, but does not hold true for beef or chicken stock.

So, here's the differences: With seafood stock, you don't need a long simmer because there's no fat or marrow to emulsify into the stock. The long simmer times pull all that rich gelatinous goodness out of the bones you're simmering, which gives the stock that rich body and thick mouthfeel. As for the vegetables, there's a difference for them as well. In seafood stock, since you're simmering for such a short time, you can cut them smaller and leach out all the flavors faster. With longer simmer times in a beef stock, you're fine to leave them much larger, since the flavors have much more time to be extracted. If you cut those veggies small and simmer long, then yeah, they'll disintegrate and murk up the stock and probably flatten the flavor some as well.

Check out Alton Brown's recipe for chicken stock, for example. He keeps the veggies large, heats the water from cold up to the barest of simmers, and lets it ride low and slow for 8 hours. Then he strains out all the solids and cools the stock and goes from there. I can tell you from experience, that even after 8 hours in the bath, the super large carrots and celery, and the quartered onions I have in there are mushy, yes, but solid enough to handle being strained from the stock and thrown out. You can see the same basics of that recipe applied to beef stock as well, shown here. The difference between the two recipes is that Alton's chicken stock recipe doesn't roast the bones, while the beef stock one does. This is because of the differences between the sizes of the bones, and also because, typically, the chicken bones have already gone through the oven once.

I could be wrong, but it definitely sounds like you're mixing up your stock recipes. Sadly, there's not really a single recipe for making every kind of stock. Each type has its own unique twist that you'll need to keep track of.

Dr. Gitmo Moneyson
Jun 26, 2005

Feels good man.



Well now I have another issue. Is there a certain recommended way to cut the meat off of sliced oxtail pieces? For some reason the butcher at the store I went to said he couldnít do that for me.

neogeo0823 posted:

Ah, I remember that now. You accidentally ruined a good amount of seafood by throwing in whole shrimps to simmer up a stock. The advice given to you then was in regards to seafood stock, but does not hold true for beef or chicken stock.

So, here's the differences: With seafood stock, you don't need a long simmer because there's no fat or marrow to emulsify into the stock. The long simmer times pull all that rich gelatinous goodness out of the bones you're simmering, which gives the stock that rich body and thick mouthfeel. As for the vegetables, there's a difference for them as well. In seafood stock, since you're simmering for such a short time, you can cut them smaller and leach out all the flavors faster. With longer simmer times in a beef stock, you're fine to leave them much larger, since the flavors have much more time to be extracted. If you cut those veggies small and simmer long, then yeah, they'll disintegrate and murk up the stock and probably flatten the flavor some as well.

Check out Alton Brown's recipe for chicken stock, for example. He keeps the veggies large, heats the water from cold up to the barest of simmers, and lets it ride low and slow for 8 hours. Then he strains out all the solids and cools the stock and goes from there. I can tell you from experience, that even after 8 hours in the bath, the super large carrots and celery, and the quartered onions I have in there are mushy, yes, but solid enough to handle being strained from the stock and thrown out. You can see the same basics of that recipe applied to beef stock as well, shown here. The difference between the two recipes is that Alton's chicken stock recipe doesn't roast the bones, while the beef stock one does. This is because of the differences between the sizes of the bones, and also because, typically, the chicken bones have already gone through the oven once.

I could be wrong, but it definitely sounds like you're mixing up your stock recipes. Sadly, there's not really a single recipe for making every kind of stock. Each type has its own unique twist that you'll need to keep track of.

Thank you for providing me with this helpful advice, and not just calling me a troll like certain other people.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
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Goons are trash and a putrid forum culture is the reason why nobody new registers. At best you're 30+ year old failed twitter "comedians" and tolerate this pig because he has the same normie sports hobby as you do.


Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:

Well now I have another issue. Is there a certain recommended way to cut the meat off of sliced oxtail pieces? For some reason the butcher at the store I went to said he couldnít do that for me.

You pull it off after you cook it.

neogeo0823
Jul 4, 2007

NO THAT'S NOT ME!!


Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:

Well now I have another issue. Is there a certain recommended way to cut the meat off of sliced oxtail pieces? For some reason the butcher at the store I went to said he couldnít do that for me.


Thank you for providing me with this helpful advice, and not just calling me a troll like certain other people.

Glad I could help alleviate the mix up. Troll or not, cooking good food is something everyone should be able to get advice on.

Also, to be fair, out of the various cooking threads I visit here, this one is definitely the most pretentious of them. The cajun/creole thread is chill as gently caress, and the poor cooking thread hands out advice like they're getting paid to do so.

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.

My wife made corn bread to go with my chili (short rib, ground beef, hominy corn, tomatoes, small amount of pinto beans are the main specs). But it's actually pretty bad adding it right to the bowl, it soaks the little bit of chili liquid and turns it into an unappetizing bread-chili paste with an odd sweetness. Fail.

I will probably just eat them separate.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

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I've seen that style work with some success, along with similar approaches like a chili mac (over macaroni pasta) or Frito pie (chili over Fritos). I enjoy cornbread but on the side for the reasons you specified.

Ben Nevis
Jan 20, 2011


I love cornbread and chili. I typically split it and put it at the bottom and pile chili on top. A more savory cornbread is desirable here, I think.

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Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
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Goons are trash and a putrid forum culture is the reason why nobody new registers. At best you're 30+ year old failed twitter "comedians" and tolerate this pig because he has the same normie sports hobby as you do.


If your chili is so slack that cornbread is sinking into it you're doing something wrong.

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