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litany of gulps
Jun 11, 2001

Fun Shoe

Elizabethan Error posted:

the flavor of spices lasts longer in oil, did you want a fresh shovel for the well you're currently digging?

In a Texas style chili, which is 95% of what is discussed in this thread, the entire dish is cooked for hours in a big greasy bath. The spices, the oil, and everything else are thoroughly mixed and pretty much everything breaks down into paste or shreds.

In most dishes you would prepare a tarka for, you're using whole spices with a relatively short cook time. If you just throw a bunch of whole cumin seeds on your cabbage and cook it for ten minutes or whatever, the seeds won't really add much of anything but maybe localized flavor when you eat one directly. This is why you cook them in oil before adding other components of the dish, so the oil distributes the flavor.

I could, of course, be mistaken - maybe sauteing your spices for 30 seconds prior to cooking them in an oil bath for ages really will revolutionize your chili. But I rather suspect that almost any other choice you make with regard to ingredients in your chili will have a bigger impact than that.

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Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
No, fried and toasted spices are also used for dishes that have long cook times. There's too much water in a stew to fry the spices by just dumping them in. The flavor is going to be different and it's just as easy to throw them in with the mire poix near the end of their cook.

litany of gulps
Jun 11, 2001

Fun Shoe
Throwing them in at the end - isn't that actually what you do with a lot of the north Indian dishes that sort of resemble Texas style chilis? The meat-centric, heavily spiced, long cook dishes. And typically in these dishes, doesn't the toasting of the chilis and spices typically take place prior to them actually being ground for use?

While the tarka technique is more often used in regional cooking that does not have access to extravagant amounts of spices, oil, or strongly flavored ingredients such as meat, and you are attempting to extract subtle and stronger flavors out of what little you are working with?

Symmetry's advice that you just need to make a tarka for your chili seems questionable for a lot of reasons.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
Except for things like smoked paprika or certain types of chilis they are dried not smoked nor toasted. Almost all of those Indian dishes have toasted the spices so it is different than just adding them raw, Thai food has a lot of fried chili pastes and they aren't lacking for spices, carnitas are marinated pork fried with spices. There are a bunch of different ways to do it but keeping them raw usually isn't it.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
"I'm not owned! im not owned!" i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a toasted spice corncob

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

litany of gulps posted:

So you think that if you saute your spices for 30 seconds or whatever prior to cooking them in your chili for two hours you get some extra nutty aroma. Right. As I said, in a short time prep there's obviously reasons to prepare the spices in different ways. You're gonna tell me here that toasting your spices prior to a long duration boil in a bunch of fat and other spices is going to impart some noticeably different flavor? I mean, splendidtable.org is some strong proof backup for your claims, but...

Getting some nutty aroma right here from these hot takes!

Not only do you not know how to cook, but you are ignoring the actual reasons for that difference. It's not some mystical thing, it's literally different flavor compounds becoming volatile under different circumstances. You know how tomatoes taste different if you add a little alcohol to the pan, even neutral alcohol? That's because you get different terpenoids, esters, and alkaloids. You know. The things that you experience with your olfactory system.

My source is not splendidtable, they just did a nice writeup.

gently caress off.

litany of gulps posted:

Throwing them in at the end - isn't that actually what you do with a lot of the north Indian dishes that sort of resemble Texas style chilis? The meat-centric, heavily spiced, long cook dishes. And typically in these dishes, doesn't the toasting of the chilis and spices typically take place prior to them actually being ground for use?

While the tarka technique is more often used in regional cooking that does not have access to extravagant amounts of spices, oil, or strongly flavored ingredients such as meat, and you are attempting to extract subtle and stronger flavors out of what little you are working with?

Symmetry's advice that you just need to make a tarka for your chili seems questionable for a lot of reasons.

yeah I was actually being pretty sardonic when I said to just make a tarka, but frying your spices does make a huge difference in their flavor. Different compounds offgas or develop. Heat changes the molecular structure of the parts of the spice that you can taste (actually, smell, but let's not get into that right now).

And crucially, frying your spices in cold oil is not what I'm suggesting. A tarka is made by getting your oil ripping hot, almost smoking, and then putting the spices in so they actually literally pop.

SymmetryrtemmyS fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Nov 16, 2019

Bald Stalin
Jul 11, 2004

Our posts
https://youtu.be/oxnMtQHehhs

A video about making chili in which none of the 3 cooks make chili

Elizabethan Error
May 18, 2006

Ranter posted:

https://youtu.be/oxnMtQHehhs

A video about making chili in which none of the 3 cooks make chili

all three recipes have chilis and meat :confused:

angerbot
Mar 23, 2004

plob
Why even sear meat before cooking it? It's going to cook in the stew for two hours anyways so it'll probably sear in there.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf
If you want a great practical understanding of the role of toasting spices, start making Indian food

toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


Why even cook anything in chili, just make chili tartare.

Bald Stalin
Jul 11, 2004

Our posts

angerbeet posted:

Why even sear meat before cooking it? It's going to cook in the stew for two hours anyways so it'll probably sear in there.

To lock in the juices didnt you watch the video??

litany of gulps
Jun 11, 2001

Fun Shoe
God, I'm so owned, my face is so red. I'm sure everyone is going to start making a tarka to season their chili said nobody ever and did nobody ever.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009

litany of gulps posted:

said nobody ever and did nobody ever.

Why do you keep saying stuff like this when obviously a bunch of people do it and have been doing it for hundreds of years?

Ben Nevis
Jan 20, 2011
I usually throw cumin into the pan right after I've seared the meat and let it go until fragrant, then proceed with onions, etc. I'm surprised this is controversial.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007


angerbeet posted:

Why even sear meat before cooking it? It's going to cook in the stew for two hours anyways so it'll probably sear in there.

hi kris

Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008

One thing I learned from this thread is that, in order to make chili, one of the crucial ingredients is to be vehemently wrong about something stupid

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

Control Volume posted:

One thing I learned from this thread is that, in order to make chili, one of the crucial ingredients is to be vehemently wrong about something stupid

Put this in the OP please

Bald Stalin
Jul 11, 2004

Our posts
Made goulash last night, it was pretty good but I think the paprika wasn't super fresh, seemed a little flat compared to the stuff I got in Hungary a couple years back. I also only had navy beans on hand, not sure if that affected it.

Hurt Whitey Maybe
Jun 26, 2008

I mean maybe not. Or maybe. Definitely don't kill anyone.

Ranter posted:

Made goulash last night, it was pretty good but I think the paprika wasn't super fresh, seemed a little flat compared to the stuff I got in Hungary a couple years back. I also only had navy beans on hand, not sure if that affected it.

buddy have you considered taking out the beans and paprika and adding chipotles in adobo and toasting your spices

Upsidads
Jan 11, 2007
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates


This pancake batter isnt noticable at all!

litany of gulps
Jun 11, 2001

Fun Shoe
Real talk - should I saute the cinnamon and cacao before I put it in my chili?

Bald Stalin
Jul 11, 2004

Our posts

Hurt Whitey Maybe posted:

buddy have you considered taking out the beans and paprika and adding chipotles in adobo and toasting your spices

thats not chili

Rotten Cookies
Nov 11, 2008

gosh! i like both the islanders and the rangers!!! :^)

Control Volume posted:

One thing I learned from this thread is that, in order to make chili, one of the crucial ingredients is to be vehemently wrong about something stupid

If being wrong makes good chili, I must make a masterful chili

Upsidads
Jan 11, 2007
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates


Nothing red must go in

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

Junkie Disease posted:

Nothing red must go in

Except for the tomatoes, chiles, and kidney beans.

Hurt Whitey Maybe
Jun 26, 2008

I mean maybe not. Or maybe. Definitely don't kill anyone.

Junkie Disease posted:

Nothing red must go in

Making turkey, jalapeño and tomatillo chili ONLY

immortalyawn
May 28, 2013

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Chili is just a spicy stew. use whatever you want.

Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR

notimmortalyawn posted:

Curry is just a spicy stew. use whatever you want.

notimmortalyawn posted:

Paella is just a fancy rice. use whatever you want.

notimmortalyawn posted:

Bagels is just a bread. use whatever you want.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!
Okay, here and now everyone define chili and we will go by the consensus. Ready go.

hitchensgoespop
Oct 22, 2008
Spicy meat sludge

Resting Lich Face
Feb 21, 2019


This case of an intraperitoneal zucchini is unusual, and does raise questions as to how hard one has to push a blunt vegetable to perforate the rectum.

hitchensgoespop posted:

Spicy meat sludge

pro username

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


“Spicy sludge” is more inclusive, vegetarians should be allowed to eat chilli

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

All of those are actually correct though. gently caress food prescriptivism. Curry isn't even a real dish unless you're talking about Japanese curry, so you can make whatever you want and call it curry.

Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR

SymmetryrtemmyS posted:

All of those are actually correct though. gently caress food prescriptivism. Curry isn't even a real dish unless you're talking about Japanese curry, so you can make whatever you want and call it curry.

I thought that was just weird spaghetti

mariooncrack
Dec 27, 2008

Suspect Bucket posted:

I thought that was just weird spaghetti

No that's Skyline or Cincinnati Chili

Suspect Bucket
Jan 15, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR

mariooncrack posted:

No that's Skyline or Cincinnati Chili

I thought that was a curry

I'm obviously just confused now

sfwarlock
Aug 11, 2007

Ranter posted:

https://youtu.be/oxnMtQHehhs

A video about making chili in which none of the 3 cooks make chili

"So my recipe is actually chili con carne, not the typical 'chili'." :fuckoff:

Hurt Whitey Maybe
Jun 26, 2008

I mean maybe not. Or maybe. Definitely don't kill anyone.

sfwarlock posted:

"So my recipe is actually chili con carne, not the typical 'chili'." :fuckoff:

I hated that guy so much, everything he says is just like vaguely wrong the way we love to post in this thread

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Resting Lich Face
Feb 21, 2019


This case of an intraperitoneal zucchini is unusual, and does raise questions as to how hard one has to push a blunt vegetable to perforate the rectum.
Clearly there is no such thing as chili.

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