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  • Locked thread
toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


Don't worry guys, we still have six months to make it better, right?

Right?

^^^: If it's true, I'm curious about the thing about Vergil not looking like he did in DMC3. Mainly because I'm wondering if it implies that he's no longer Dante's twin, or his thematic opposite.

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Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


If they're going along the twin route (assuming that stuff is correct), they could say he's just a frateranal twin - that way he doesn't need to be identical.

notZaar posted:

All that stuff is probably under a NDA. He should not have posted it. I wonder if Vergil will actually be in the game or if he's making that stuff up. I mean the plot points he posted sound retarded, but they also sound completely in the realm of reason at this point.

It's stupid enough from what we've already seen to sound plausable, I agree.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2012 around 12:00

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


To the shock of nobody, Jim Sterling of Destructoid is the only person to say that DmC was good.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-i-m-s...un-229188.phtml

And of course the comments drones are just eating it up, goes hand in hand with his contrarian attitude, he'll probably give the game a 10 to troll the community.

Balobam
Apr 28, 2012



Alteisen posted:

To the shock of nobody, Jim Sterling of Destructoid is the only person to say that DmC was good.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-i-m-s...un-229188.phtml

And of course the comments drones are just eating it up, goes hand in hand with his contrarian attitude, he'll probably give the game a 10 to troll the community.

He just does it for those delicious, delicious hits. I mean nothing grabs more attention than controversy.

Also the comments are beyond stupid, they actually think the hair is why nobody is looking forward to it. Also this:

quote:

I never played a DmC game before, so I picked of the collection for Xbox 360 a few weeks ago, and I have to say, the first two games were pretty boring, and the third one was moderately fun. This, however, looks pretty rad. I like the new Dante's look a lot more than the original's. I can't wait until 2013!

You know, I somehow get the feeling they didn't quite play those games in a challenging capacity. Nor unlocked all, well, unlockables. I thought RPS comments were annoying.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Alteisen posted:

To the shock of nobody, Jim Sterling of Destructoid is the only person to say that DmC was good.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-i-m-s...un-229188.phtml

And of course the comments drones are just eating it up, goes hand in hand with his contrarian attitude, he'll probably give the game a 10 to troll the community.

The guy is also looking forward to Silent Hill: Book of Memories too... he is really is just contrarian for the sake of contrarian.

Those comments:

quote:

God forbid a talented developer that understands how to make deep characters approach a series as cliche as DMC.

quote:

You know what I don't give a gently caress I'm gonna purchase this game. Cause Theres just not enough hardcore action games. It's a dying genera. So buy this game solely on it being the only action game to come since Bayonetta. P.S. Trish should've been in this game for obvious reason. Big. Honky. Tits.

quote:

Anybody who didn't think Enslaved was awesome is clearly an idiot and wouldn't know a good game if it pulled out its cock and came all over their face. Just sayin. You can ban me for this comment if you like cause that's how strongly I feel about the badassery that was Enslaved.

Oh, these wise sages of videogames

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

Only on the internet could a cult of personality form around a hideous fat contrarian nerd with a superiority complex like Mr. Sterling.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


What the hell is wrong with people on DMC.org? It's good for news related to DmC, but jesus christ the comments...

quote:

I found DMC 4 's Dante to be really annoying and too buff. I hated the dialogues , movements and specially the cutscene before fighting agnus and the one after belial.

Of all the arguments to make about 4, it's because Dante's too buff? And someone hates the Agnus cutscene!? Someone hates fun.

quote:

Any Christian values in the new DMC?

Huh? A tad of an odd question.

quote:

I agree too [with Dante swearing]. Besides, I love the F's...ya know.
It's not like common African-American type of randomness of cursing, which is the reason I like the way Dante says it.
Poison was...hopping mad. Dante quickly knew this to his advantage and began trolling her.
This is because why the dialogue is quite funny...like look at his face! complete glee and gloating lol.

What a charming guy. What the gently caress is wrong with you!?

quote:

I was watching the Alex Jones channel the other day, and found out that Rand Paul will be supporting Mitt Romney for the nomination.

In other words, he was trying to compromise with the establishment.

This, of course, is bad news.

Any compromise with the establishment is always a bad thing. The Founding Fathers would have never compromised with King George.

"Perhaps that’s Rand’s idea of playing politics? Come to the table, strike a deal, get what you can. Trouble is, it’s tough striking a good deal when the guy on the other side of the table believes that the government should be allowed to claim — without having to produce any evidence whatsoever — that certain people are terrorists, and therefore should be detained indefinitely without any kind of due process.

"That’s textbook tyranny."

What does this have to do with Vergil and the Order? Well...

Before we move on, I just want to say that the guy in the mask has been all but confirmed to be Vergil. White hair, blue-green coat, elegant appearance, it's Vergil, or at least Gilver, down to a T.

Now, Vergil and the Order have most likely been leading the fight against tyranny and demons for a good long while now.

But Mundus may or may not have cut Vergil a deal, saying that he'll "cut back" on the cameras, poison drinks, and debt-ridden banking systems in exchange for Vergil to stop fighting him.

Vergil, tired of the war, will most likely not be in his right state of mind when he finally agrees to the deal, thinking he can change the system from within instead of exclusively without.

But here's the thing.

You can't compromise with tyranny.

Even if Vergil was planning on taking over, like Rand Paul is planning on doing (Rand Paul is most likely siding with Mitt Romney so that he can get closer to becoming President in 2016) it wouldn't work. Not in this way.

Not when the other side isn't willing to compromise (under the surface level) under the surface level at all.

Once you are allied with the establishment (Mundus, Romney) you become too corrupted to work towards any real change in the end. (Corrupted Vergil/Nelo Angelo)

It begins people.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 10, 2012 around 12:47

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008



I'm glad people liked my last post. The Devil May Cry series is melodramatic, cheesy, and sometimes downright dumb, but it's still a coherent, well-made series. It's neither perfect nor "deep", but that doesn't mean it's not saying something.

Anyways, I was thinking about how gameplay and story intersect in creating a game, and I think Devil May Cry shows off a good way to do it. Pretty much everyone knows that DMC began as Resident Evil 4, and I think it's pretty obvious that both series heavily influenced each other. I don't think the actual RE4 could have had Leon's banter or any part of Ramon Salazar if DMC's development hadn't made the sillier aspects of the series more apparent. But they also serve as interesting contrasts in how their styles of play inform the experience of playing.

Both games rely on similar skeletons to their story (both game and cutscene). Both RE and DMC make use of small scale McGuffins to get from level to level- basically, key card fetch quests. Dante needs to get the King's Eye to activate an elevator, Claire needs to find the Rooster Crest and the Chicken Key to get through a locked door. Yet they're fundamentally different in how the game uses these obstacles. For RE, they are your primary antagonists. Zombies are just sinks of your limited resources (either bullets or health). Optimally, you can run by them, since your task is to survive your journey from A->B. The cutscenes involve this. I remember a police officer on the roof, menaced by a zombie, wildly firing, and shooting down the helicopter. It's kind of silly- a guy with a machine gun should be able to handle two zombies. Hell, you get mad at the guy for being such an idiot. But that's the right effect- the "enemy" in the scene isn't the zombie, it's just a course hazard. Your real antagonist is the idiot police officer who produced a new barrier (the downed helicopter) that forces you to go find a new way and expose yourself to more resource sinks.

Devil May Cry took that concept and turned it right on its head. Same skeleton (Long term goal hampered by various tasks to complete on each level), but everything about DMC is focused on the smallest scale, the combat. In RE 1-3, combat is clunky and delaying- the goal is to get away and survive. In DMC, there's something in the distance, but until then, go nuts fighting. The McGuffins aren't the goal- they're pointing you in the direction of the fighting. Delays and obstructions just mean you've got bigger demon-whales to fry. Fighting is absolutely central to gameplay (duh), specifically, very personal, intricate fighting. Let's look at two cut features: lock on and taunt. Obviously, taunt characterizes Dante- he's boastful- but it also emphasizes the nature of the game. Fighting is part of how you replenish your resources, in this case, red orbs and devil trigger. Taunting boosts devil trigger and helps keep your combo up. Playing like Dante is necessary to being good at the game, you have to go all in and show off. Lock on serves a mechanical function primarily, it makes the game easier to play, but it also contributes to the atmosphere of DMC3. It keeps the fighting immediately personal, you're never fighting indiscriminately. In cutscenes, Dante is always pulling trick shots and using the environment/his motorcycle to take out crowds of enemies. In gameplay, you focus your fire at a single enemy while keeping attention for visual and audio tells from the other enemies.

The removal of these mechanics aren't the end of the world, but it does signal that the new Devil May Cry is not going to have the same goals or focus as classic DMC. This could turn out like DMC 2 (and the strong/weak divide of Angel v. Devil trigger worryingly reminds me of DMC2's weapons), but remember, Devil May Cry as a series is a divergence from the tone, style, and concept of its predecessor, Resident Evil. And ultimately, the progenitor series took a lot of cues from its descendent.

wildzero
Apr 23, 2008

"My name is Dante."
"Fuck you say?"



I like to think of DMC as a sort of amalgam of all of Capcom's major series. Precambrian touched on the Resident Evil connection pretty well, but there are two other series that DMC seems to have taken influence from.

The combat system is very much fighting game inspired, using lock on and directional input isn't exactly like Street Fighter's inputs but it's a transition to 3d that made a lot of sense and has a ton of flexibility. DMC3 and 4 have a similarity to Mega Man in that defeating (most) bosses nets you their power, and those Devil Arms have corresponding bosses that they're especially powerful against.

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Lowtax


Pesky Splinter posted:

The guy is also looking forward to Silent Hill: Book of Memories too... he is really is just contrarian for the sake of contrarian.

Those comments:




Oh, these wise sages of videogames

The last comment, while... gross, wasn't too far off: Enslaved was a pretty good game.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


It was more to point out how gross the comment was, rather than the subjective view of Enslaved.

It's interesting to note how Resident Evil's survival horror begets different styles of games, and the ways they differ.

Firstly, just looking at Resident Evil, the player is a member of a special team with combat experience, fighting man-made monsters, while also trying to conserve ammo and supplies. But the emphasis is of course, on survival, and avoiding wasting the limited ammo and supplies.

Silent Hill takes that formula, and changes it so that the horror instead comes from psychological fears.
The other difference is that the player characters are often just ordinary people caught up in extraordinary events; they're not members of a special SWAT team or have combat training - just shopworkers, or a book writer or truck driver or what have you.
The survival horror aspect is still there, but with added emphasis on running away from combat as to not waste ammo or supplies.

And, in connection with Precambrian's post, DMC takes RE survival horror aspect and turns it on its head. Gone is the limited ammo and relative powerlessness and the ability to flee from combat. Why? Because Dante can stand his ground against the demons and fight them on their level. His supernatural origin (and that of his enemies) makes him hardier than most.

Getting rid of the limited ammo encourages players to take advantage of the freedom it gives, and it also changes the focus of the gameplay - it's no longer about surviving against enemies, it's about defeating them stylishly and tearing them apart. And that of course has improved with each new thing brought to the series, allowing players to more easily and stylishly take down enemies.

Bayonetta, of course, is just the logical extension of that, pumped up to eleven and adding the witch time mechanic. Which is a great example of risk and reward:

Dodging the enemy attacks will allow the player a short while to retaliate, but, dodging at the near moment of impact will allow the player more time to damage the enemies (reward), however, dodging too late will result in damage (risk). It just encourages the player to get to know the combat system and explore their options. Same for the DMC games.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Azure_Horizon posted:

The last comment, while... gross, wasn't too far off: Enslaved was a pretty good game.

No, it really wasn't, it was subpar in every aspect (especially combat, the by far most important part to any DMC game) and is overrated due to having mocap cutscenes.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Interview with Reuben Langdon (mo-cap and VA for Classic Dante):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snyGIxMgobY

He discusses his work with Capcom and his own production company, and his views on DmC, and some of his DMC stuff.

"Rest your minds' guys, it's awesome!" - he likes it.

No new information really, but interesting anyway.

limited
Dec 10, 2005
Limited Sanity

Pesky Splinter posted:

Interview with Reuben Langdon (mo-cap and VA for Classic Dante):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snyGIxMgobY

He discusses his work with Capcom and his own production company, and his views on DmC, and some of his DMC stuff.

"Rest your minds' guys, it's awesome!" - he likes it.

No new information really, but interesting anyway.

It's going to get meta. He's going to be the VO for Vergil.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Disco fight stuff.

quote:

Ninja Theory shows off its ongoing work on the Devil May Cry series in DmC, with an E3 2012 demo that proves beyond any doubt that the franchise is in safe hands.

For those who have been concerned about Ninja Theory’s ability to appropriately capture the bizarre, over-the-top nature of the Devil May Cry series in its upcoming DmC, you can safely put those fears aside. Based on what we saw during a behind closed doors E3 2012 demo, the Enslaved dev seems to have nailed the same blend of Japanese-flavored weirdness that pervades the rest of the games in the series in its upcoming release.

The E3 demo started off with the game’s parallel universe Dante strolling up to a nightclub run by Lilith, who our Capcom rep describes as “the Simon Cowell of the demon world.” In this alternative reality take on the series, demons control everything. Lilith’s nighttime hotspot isn’t just a popular club; it’s also a trap designed to lure unwitting patrons into the mirror world of Limbo. Dante is there to mess up her day, but first he needs to get himself into the club.

Those aforementioned worries over a possible shift in tone are banished immediately upon seeing Dante’s exchange with the bouncer. You’re not on the list, he says to the teen demonspawn after glancing down at the clipboard he’s holding in his hands. Dante responds with a sharp uppercut, which knocks the bouncer flat on his back as the guest list and pen that he’s holding go flying. Our hero catches both items in a single, smooth maneuver, signing the list with a flourish and flashing a smile at the unconscious doorman as he finishes writing and drops both items where he stands/

“I am now,” he says, striding forward into the club. Before following him, the camera comes to rest on the clipboard and we see how Dante chose to sign his name: “F–k you.” Still worried?

The crowded club doesn’t immediately seem like the viper’s nest that it will soon turn out to be. A scantily clad dancer in white lingerie with fake angel wings on her back strolls up to Dante and invites him to dance. He declines with a smartass remark and it’s immediately clear that these two know each other. A couple of club patrons notice the exchange and a close-up of one reveals that he’s not quite human. He whispers out “Dante” in a ghostly voice, alerting Lilith of the uninvited guest. She’s got no love for the demonspawn, muttering something about wanting to deliver his corpse to someone.

We cut back to Dante as the club transforms around him; dancers on the dance floor disappear and walls spring up to box our hero in as a handful of enemies spawn. He’s got a few more tricks in his toolbox this time around; in addition to sword Rebellion and the handguns Ebony and Ivory, Dante also has angel and demon weapons to aid him. In addition to offering a wider range of options in combat, these items are also sometimes necessary for taking on foes that will only take damage from one or the other.

On the angel side there’s Osiris, a scythe that’s built for fast, sweeping attacks that do little damage to lots of enemies. Crowd control. It also doubles as a sort of grappling hook, allowing Dante to pull himself over to distant enemies with ease. The demon weapon is Arbiter, a two-handed battle axe that strikes slowly but packs a big punch. This weapon can also double as a grappling hook, though it works by pulling the target close rather than launching Dante over to his target. These aren’t the only angel or demon weapons in DmC, but they are the two showcased in the E3 demo.

The new weapons and their grapple abilities introduce a variety of new tactical options. Dante has the option of shooting out the wings on flying enemies, but he can alternatively use the grapple to drag one down to him or launch himself up to one. Osiris and Arbiter both have their uses; the former comes in handy when an early wave of weaker enemies is shredded to pieces as a group and the latter proves to be helpful when a lone tank enemy comes out to play.

Once the initial onslaught is taken care of, the barriers surrounding the arena disappear and we discover that Dante is now standing on a series of floating platforms that are suspended high above what appears to be a packed dance floor that stretches off into the horizon. An announcer’s voice picks up as a familiar logo appears on the screen: “Devil’s Got Talent,” it reads. The bizarre Devil May Cry sense of humor is alive and well.

The rest of the demo unfolds over a series of discrete rounds, each with their own sets of rules. In the first, strobing lights on the floor of the fighting arena shift between the colors red and blue. Here, Dante must dish out weapons with his angel and demon weapons, depending on which color is strobing at the time. The second round is a timed affair, with a 30-second timer set into the floor of the arena. counting down as Dante dispatches the baddies that come his way. A later round pits Dante against fire and ice demons, which are ibky susceptible to demon and angel weapons, respectively. Separating each of these rounds is a platforming sequence in which you work your way along a series of walkways and platforms suspended over the writhing dance floor far below.

The demo ends after round five, in which Dante faces off against a pair of creatures called Rage. They certainly look the part of the “demonic porcupines” that the demo’s driver describes them as. Taking them on solo is fine, but if you kill more than one in a group, the rest will go into “Rage” mode which effectively makes them immune to being staggered by damage. Dante makes quick enough work of them here, but it’s easy to see how a Rage pair could cause problems in the mix with other enemy types.

And that’s where we leave DmC. The game is looking like a win for Ninja Theory, capturing the tone and feel of the veteran series while putting a uniquely new creative spin on things. Watching it in action, you get the feeling that you’re seeing Devil May Cry 2.0; all of the familiar bits and pieces are there, but there’s a flavor to everything that was never there before. Look for DmC in stores early next year, on January 15, 2013.

Source: http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...ry-game-should/

So yeah, the enemies can devil trigger themeselves.

This club being run by Lilith basically confirms even more what the 4chan playtester was saying.

Great. Brace yourselves for the wig scene and Mundus boning.

On a slightly brighter note, I wonder if they'll use the disco stuff for a bloody palace mode.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 11, 2012 around 23:00

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


I love how self-assured that article is on DMC's humor being faithfully adapted into this. As if the past DMC games humor was in Dante having to swear or in random pop culture references.

Balobam
Apr 28, 2012



quote:

Watching it in action, you get the feeling that you’re seeing Devil May Cry 2.0

Fascinating. It's almost as if there wasn't already a Devil May Cry 2.0. I think it might be a sign.

I mean the game could be fun, sounds like it could even be something good, but it just doesn't quite sound like DMC should.

Two weapons based off shoulder holds (how the gently caress can you do that with urgency), more platforming (such a minor part in the others) which just by reason alone means it's either pointless padding -who plays DMC to platform?- or it actually takes up potential fighting.

Also, outside of demons, Dante didn't really fight anything. So flooring a bouncer for doing his little virtual job isn't really the behaviour you'd expect out of a carefree, chilled demon-warrior. Hell, in DMC 3.0 he spent half the game not fighting someone actively trying to murder him. And they actually shot him in the brain a couple of times and he just got annoyed at them and walked off.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


^^^
[e]: No, but you see, this Dante is a rebel. And rebel is just another synonym for prick.

Sex_Ferguson posted:

I love how self-assured that article is on DMC's humor being faithfully adapted into this. As if the past DMC games humor was in Dante having to swear or in random pop culture references.

I like that it dates the gently caress out of it.

Just like the Not-Anonymous and Not-Fox stuff. And that's the big problem with trying to create something that is modern or appeals to modern fashion and tastes, is that it dates very quickly.

Wifebeaters and Angel/Devil triggers were so last year, Ninja Theory.
If New Dante, dressed as he was, walked into any bar outside of Tokyo, he'd get laughed out.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 21, 2012 around 21:43

Dash O Pepper
Sep 22, 2006



Balobam posted:

Also the comments are beyond stupid, they actually think the hair is why nobody is looking forward to it. Also this:


You know, I somehow get the feeling they didn't quite play those games in a challenging capacity. Nor unlocked all, well, unlockables. I thought RPS comments were annoying.

The collection is bad. I agree with him somewhat, DMC 1/2 have not aged well, and 3 only moderately moreso. I like the look and feel of DMC4 more than this new one, but the game isn't out yet, so this might change, but I doubt it.

The collection was not updated with any HD graphics or any improvements outside of achievements and some artwork (oh boy). The games were fun when they came out, but just slapping them onto one disc with no changes and charging $40 for what amounts to 3 common PS2 games is a scam.

This is without mentioning all of the graphical glitches that were new to the collection (i.e it actually looks and plays better on a PS2)

Dash O Pepper fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 01:13

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life,
I think I've gone too far.


quote:

“I am now,” he says, striding forward into the club. Before following him, the camera comes to rest on the clipboard and we see how Dante chose to sign his name: “F–k you.” Still worried?

Yes, yes I am still worried.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Dash O Pepper posted:

The collection was not updated with any HD graphics or any improvements outside of achievements and some artwork (oh boy). The games were fun when they came out, but just slapping them onto one disc with no changes and charging $40 for what amounts to 3 common PS2 games is a scam.

This is without mentioning all of the graphical glitches that were new to the collection (i.e it actually looks and plays better on a PS2)

It would have been nice if they put actual effort into the HD releases. Or added things like say, a bloody palace mode for DMC1 (I mean c'mon, how difficult would that be?) or being bothered to change the loving menus so they actually fit the screen.

The artwork and music was a let down, and I vagely remember them promising some bonus features or something, that never appeared.

Balobam
Apr 28, 2012



In fairness to him I suppose I haven't played 1 in quite some time, 3 I've played recently and think it's easily stood the test of time.

Going from 4 to 3 however does feel lacking, but I think that's just a sign that the gameplay improvements in the sequel were, well, good. I mean the slickness of style changes on the fly as Dante, the aesthetics in general looked pretty great. The bosses varied and colourful without looking non-threatening, Credo Angelo being a great boss fight.

Plus, to a lot of peoples disagreement, I actually liked Nero, he seemed like Dante did in 3 except with someone he cared about who also happened to be alive. Also the ability to grab enemies at a distance really made Dante feel a bit off when it was his time to shine. Also the grab attacks were all different between enemies, and quite a lot (if not all) had a different grab in DT too.

But yeah, going from 4 back to 3 didn't make 3 feel that dated, I mean graphics-wise obviously it did, but in terms of actual gameplay, the fighting and combos could easily hold their own, not to mention all the weapons and extra styles.

Also, haven't played the HD collection, played DMC 3 more recently on the PS2 emulator after I realised how horrible the PC port is.

SirDan3k
Jan 6, 2001

Trust me, you are taking this a lot more seriously then I am.


Schubalts posted:

Yes, yes I am still worried.

Don't be worried, be resigned.

"Here Lies Devil May Cry, replaced by that kid in high school that tired everything to be cool and got laughed at."

SirDan3k fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 01:24

Dash O Pepper
Sep 22, 2006



Balobam posted:

Also, haven't played the HD collection, played DMC 3 more recently on the PS2 emulator after I realised how horrible the PC port is.

Like I said, the collection is worse than playing the games on PS2, a system which you could probably purchase with the games for $40 and have a better experience.

I would never say DMC3 is bad, but I've been spoiled by DMC4, Bayonetta, and Vanquish. Going back, it just feels like its missing something that made the game so awesome when it came out.

Or closer that its not missing something but instead the bar has been raised since its release, and the gap between the new era of action games and it leaves a lot to be desired. Capcom could have filled the gap and truly could have breathed new life into the games with the collection, but instead chose to half-rear end it.

Dash O Pepper fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 01:30

Whitenoise Poster
Mar 26, 2010



Pesky Splinter posted:

It's interesting to note how Resident Evil's survival horror begets different styles of games, and the ways they differ.

Firstly, just looking at Resident Evil, the player is a member of a special team with combat experience, fighting man-made monsters, while also trying to conserve ammo and supplies. But the emphasis is of course, on survival, and avoiding wasting the limited ammo and supplies.

Silent Hill takes that formula, and changes it so that the horror instead comes from psychological fears.
The other difference is that the player characters are often just ordinary people caught up in extraordinary events; they're not members of a special SWAT team or have combat training - just shopworkers, or a book writer or truck driver or what have you.
The survival horror aspect is still there, but with added emphasis on running away from combat as to not waste ammo or supplies.

And, in connection with Precambrian's post, DMC takes RE survival horror aspect and turns it on its head. Gone is the limited ammo and relative powerlessness and the ability to flee from combat. Why? Because Dante can stand his ground against the demons and fight them on their level. His supernatural origin (and that of his enemies) makes him hardier than most.


This makes me want a DMC game with two characters like DMC4, but the notDante game segments play like Silent Hill.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Balobam posted:

Plus, to a lot of peoples disagreement, I actually liked Nero, he seemed like Dante did in 3 except with someone he cared about who also happened to be alive. Also the ability to grab enemies at a distance really made Dante feel a bit off when it was his time to shine. Also the grab attacks were all different between enemies, and quite a lot (if not all) had a different grab in DT too.

I think a lot of the dislike for Nero comes, well, for the same reason that most people dislike Raiden from MGS2 - you've bought the game expecting to play as a character (Snake/Dante), and yet for 90% you're stuck with someone else.

I really liked playing as Nero, but the problem really boils down to how the game is structured - for the majority of the game the player is getting used to the Devil Bringer and Nero's playstyle, only suddenly to be put in control of a character who plays compeletely differently. And than a few levels later, you're back to Nero again, after getting adjusted to Dante.

Had there been two scenarios (a la DMC2) with each covering different areas, I think that would solve a few of the problems people had with it.

There was also the really lazy backtracking too which makes it feel like only half a game.

Balobam
Apr 28, 2012



Dash O Pepper posted:

Like I said, the collection is worse than playing the games on PS2, a system which you could probably purchase with the games for $40 and have a better experience.

I would never say DMC3 is bad, but I've been spoiled by DMC4, Bayonetta, and Vanquish. Going back, it just feels like its missing something that made the game so awesome when it came out.

Yeah that's a fair point really, can't really argue with that. Still have yet to play Vanquish, have heard good things but just never got round to it.

But yeah, I've easily put more time into 4 than 3, just something about it I completely love. Probably how sleek it all feels, stringing those combos together in bright flashes of awesome. Also that red needle weapon of Dante's, absolutely love that thing. Also how he has a rose in his mouth whenever you equip the weapon, nice touch.

Come DmC's release I'm just going to get Vanquish and see how that goes.

Pesky Splinter posted:



The backtracking whilst annoying, especially in the slightly more tedious sections (the castle, really) sort of worked, since you were traversing Nero's ground as Dante and seeing how he handled situations differently. Mostly in the courtyard against those giant Frog Demons, where Nero prevented them from coming through the portal to avoid a fight, Dante relished the surprise and saw it an opportunity to test out his new toy.

I also actually liked Raiden, too. Avoided the hate mostly because I played 2 as my first MGS.

Speaking of Pandora, there could easily be a game based around that, featuring classic Dante considering it has 666 different forms I believe. Oh, yeah, the character swap. I don't think it helped that Dante had 4 different styles along with his own combos, 3 weapons and 3 gun-types, all of which carried their own combos.

He was far more complex to use than Nero, but he was used in the shortest section of the game, seems kinda backwards.

Balobam fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 01:40

Arstan
May 30, 2012

Thanks Cinco

Occupation posted:

No, it really wasn't, it was subpar in every aspect (especially combat, the by far most important part to any DMC game) and is overrated due to having mocap cutscenes.

Holy poo poo! I think this is the first time I've ever seen someone express the same feelings that I have toward Enslaved... I'm not crying... It's just really dusty in this thread.

Enslaved is junk, though. The story is incomprehensible nonsense. None of the characters have believable motivation at any point in the story. The world is completely incoherent. The combat is shallow and tedious. The "platforming" is a sham.

But, Andy Serkis rocks that mocap suit, so lets hand a hallowed action franchise over to these hacks!

What's that? You say Andy Serkis won't be playing Dante? Ah gently caress...

User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

Schubalts posted:

Yes, yes I am still worried.

What the fuuuuuck? Bayonetta had a lot of cursing in it, sure. But it was done with style.

This is literally, "I hate you, MOM!" It really reminds me of Bioware's New poo poo advertising angle for DA2, or what they did to POP:Warrior Within. "Let's make it Gritty and Edgy and Grimdark its what all the kids want these days you'll see." Idiots.

Dash O Pepper
Sep 22, 2006



Dante should sign his name as Andrew W.K because its party time

or something

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


I like Enslaved, but I don't get the thought processes that go behind creating a platformer where you can never fall off a ledge.

I think it gets rated way too highly by people for whatever reason. I mean, I had fun with it, but there are so many things wrong with that game from a gameplay perspective.

And the story is much of a muchness. I don't get why it's celebrated so much by reviewers and things. ICO and Shadows of the Colossus (which it is most compared to) tell a much better story by saying barely anything, and without any contradicting characterisations.

User0015 posted:

What the fuuuuuck? Bayonetta had a lot of cursing in it, sure. But it was done with style.

They also space out its use, not making it sound meaningless. Off the top of my head, you've got:

"Oh gently caress me!" (said by Luka about to crash into something and Enzo all the time), "I feel like such a loving celebrity in this town!", and of course, "Don't gently caress with a witch!"

Compare that to

"gently caress YOU!"
"gently caress YOU!"
"gently caress YOU!"
"NO gently caress YOU!"

"DANTE!? Son of Sparda, and Eve - the WHHOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRREEEEE!?"

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 01:51

Balobam
Apr 28, 2012



What?

You mean the platforming aspect is just... not? Or is it like that PoP game where you suffer no penalty for screwing up, or is it like being a mime and the invisible walls won't go away?

Whatever, either way, what's going on with DmC isn't exactly making me want to run out to the stores and buy their previous games.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Balobam posted:

What?

You mean the platforming aspect is just... not? Or is it like that PoP game where you suffer no penalty for screwing up, or is it like being a mime and the invisible walls won't go away?

Invisible walls. You literally cannot will Monkey to jump off an edge to his death. The only time there is any risk from platforming is jumping from a ledge over a minefield, in which case you can force Monkey to wade through mines to kill himself and that needy bitch, Tripitaka.

And not that I've played Heavenly Sword myself, but people have told me just to replay God of War. Maybe someoneelse in the thread could give you the low-down on that game.

[e]: Hey, go nuts, it's the DMC thread, after all, and this party's gettin' CRAHZAY!
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 01:56

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


One of te best things about DMC4 is definitely Nero's weapons triangle. It's easily one of the best implemented weapon systems in DMC. Everything about the weapon's triangle clicks together perfectly, all three weapons work in tandem with one another and it never feels like its some gimmick. The Devil Bringer in and of itself was a fantastic mechanic, every type of enemy has a unique buster and due to that it lets you plan on how to fight one enemy in your own way, especially Blitzes, Blitzes are awesome. There's also no DMC game that has the Credo boss fight, on of the best DMC bosses. Literally everything about that fight is perfect, from the music, to fighting him, to the difficulty and how it's only gimmick is breaking his shield. It's also the only boss that has arena damage.

I could go on about DMC4, but I will stop for now.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Balobam posted:

What?

You mean the platforming aspect is just... not? Or is it like that PoP game where you suffer no penalty for screwing up, or is it like being a mime and the invisible walls won't go away?

The latter. The platforming segments play out, much like in PoP 2008, as extended QTEs. Except, in PoP 2008 there's this nice flow-almost a dance- to your button presses, Enslaved feels like you're mashing the jump button until you hit the next cutscene.

Also, the game is so obsessed with being aesthetically pleasing over clean game design they literally paint all the jump and grapple points as giant shining gold widgets for you to interact with. This is how poor Ninja Theory is at developing video games; instead of going, "hey, maybe we shouldn't throw vines over everything", instead they just made everything glow gold. Because that, you know, that isn't jarring. At all.

BobbyBaudoin
Jan 13, 2008


I hope Capcom won't go "Hey this DmC reboot didn't sell! I guess we'll never make a DmC game ever again, its obvious people don't like it anymore!". Why did DmC even need a drat reboot/reimagining anyway? Did 4 not sell enough?

Although I'll give some credit to Ninja Theory, the last level of Heavenly blades was really amazing to me, even the final fight. I still wouldn't trust them with "deep melee combat" games.

Hell for all the hate NG3 has, at least the Trial component was pretty good,you'd level up your weapons, get more moves, be able to coop trials with someone else, even though it was almost 85% DLC

Guess what I'm saying is NG3 seems like a better deal than this game


Edit: Talking of PoP 2008 I thought the game was pretty relaxing. Felt like playing in a pretty painting.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.



It's ironic that a game company that purports to make substance over style, can only make it look good (stylish I guess), yet the DMCs for a series that is based on style, has the gameplay substance to make it possible.

And we can't talk about Enslaved without discussing the horrendous battle system.

They put so much effort into animating Monkey's steely buttocks when he runs and jumps, but could they make a decent combat system. Nope.

It's slow, awkward to use and unresponsive. And it goes into a cinematic mode randomly when attacking enemies. And the camera bobs to Monkey's head movements.

There's a certain boss you have to taunt to get his attention, and then roll out of the way when he charges at you, the problem is that it takes forever for Monkey to cancel out of his taunt animation and go into his roll animation. So you have to take the hit.

In Bayonetta, that poo poo would not fly. Taunt and insta-cancel into insta-dodge.

But the most splenderous carbuncle in Enslaved's crown is the upgrade system. A system so utterly broken, that you can get an upgrade that refills your health and shield at a retarded rate in the first few hours or so of the game. Of course, the player still has to deal with the combat, but they are pretty much invulnerable at that point.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 02:09

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Pesky Splinter posted:

And not that I've played Heavenly Sword myself, but people have told me just to replay God of War. Maybe someoneelse in the thread could give you the low-down on that game.


I have. It's a terrible, terrible game. It's a God of War clone except there's no jump button. The game auto-blocks for you, but you see you can only block certain types of attacks in a certain "style" (its big, stupid gimmick). Meaning you have to be switching on a regular basis between the vastly superior attack style and the slow, awful one or the one that does no damage at all, whatsoever. Except, you don't, because the game is super easy. Anyways, the auto-block thing means your attacks get regularly interrupted by Nariko deciding to block so it makes fights drag. The game was a launch Ps3 game so it's stuffed full to the brim with dumb necessary sixaxis poo poo that makes the game even more awful to play.

Combat is shallow and uninspired, hampered by the stupid "style" poo poo which means that you'll only experience a third of the combos (because the other two styles suck hard). The game eventually boils down to you mashing the same combo over and over and over and over.

Here's the most damning indictment I can make of HS' gameplay: They took God of War's, and dumbed it down. And they still hosed it up.

Also, the story. The story is ripped off entirely from GoW's. Entirely. As in, the beginning of the game shows the main character dying and the entire story is one flashback. That's how much of an obvious rip of of GoW it is.

But don't worry, they got mocap from Andy Serkis, so idiots will tell you it's one of the best games they've ever played, with the most gripping story they've ever experienced.

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 03:28

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Ninja Theory's MO is basically: Take a game, ape it badly (God of War -> Heavenly Sword, Prince of Persia 2008 -> Enslaved), throw a bunch of Eastern aesthetics on it (which honestly makes no sense whatsoever, since they're a British company, but they're so much of Asiaophiles they've named their CEO "Head Ninja" ugh), mocap, lovely gameplay, call it a day. Then they get a bunch of idiotic game journalists who wouldn't be able to tell a good story if it bit them in the rear end to call their games a "narrative masterpiece" and suck up the 9.0s

So it's funny that Capcom chose them, of all companies, to make their game more "Western-oriented". NT's whole games history has been them trying to be as Japanese/Asian as possible (I seriously am waiting for the day they start attacking their detractors as "filthy gaijin" or some poo poo), so it's funny to watch them flail attempting to make a Western game of their Glorious Nippon IP. That's where I imagine their super over the top awful poo poo like Dante looking like the head honcho or him signing "gently caress You"; they have no idea what Western culture is like so watched a bunch of Dead Kennedys music videos and went from there.

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 02:23

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Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


I like that Nariko's design is basically Oriental Kratos - but with tits:

Adds to the rip off even more.

And this is Monkey BTW:


I really like his design, but it takes a great deal of blindness to think that his design is somehow less ridiculous than this:



And that this is somehow cooler than above:

More suited to current street fashions maybe, which does link into their look of the game, I'll admit. But it lacks the campy edge.

Infact, there's nothing really that distinguishes him as a character. His design tells me nothing about him or his personality at all.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 02:31

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