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Barudak
May 7, 2007



Pesky Splinter posted:

I couldn't remember exactly, but I know those little loving green ape things - the Msira - had no tells.

I've blocked out most of DMC2 because...well...it's better that way.

I like a lot of DMC2 but yes, it sucks. Don't forget Bolverk's dogs who not only have no tell but attack by moving at seemingly random angles so they're simultaneously impossible to dodge and impossible to melee consistently. Oh and the green golems can just fully heal themselves at any time while the skitter away from you and are nigh-impossible to track.

Seriously, if you draw any comparisons to DMC2 in any way other than interesting mechanical ideas you have done hosed up your game.

notZaar posted:

Trickster is great, even at level 1. It's free invincibility frames at the cost of a simple button press.

Garbage was probably strong but it improves so dramatically when you have more dashes and can really move and run around the arena both on the ground and in the air that the level one feels so limited.

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ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


ImpAtom posted:

Royal Guard is powerful but Trickster allows you to do some pretty amazing poo poo once you get it down. It isn't just about dodging but repositioning.

I'll take your word for it. I never bothered with it since I got more than enough repositioning out of the regular dodge technique in 3 & 4, and really never felt like sacrificing immediate offensive power. That's how I feel about it!

Here's another controversial opinion! I don't care how good Gunslinger is in 3, I thought it was boring as heck until 4 introduced Pandora! Take that everybody.

ChewyLSB
Jan 13, 2008

Destroy the core


I actually thought Gunslinger was way better in DMC3 than it was in 4. Gunslinger with Shotgun/Artemis and Rebellion/Nevan owned so much, and that's actually the configuration I'm using to go through DMC3 again with now on DMD!

I actually don't like Pandora lore wise because I felt like it was kind of a series staple that the demons became Devil Arms (hence the name) and Dante's guns were just normal guns that Dante was good with. I mean Artemis was a bit of a stretch but you also just found it and didn't get it from a boss fight.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


ThePhenomenalBaby posted:

Here's another controversial opinion! I don't care how good Gunslinger is in 3, I thought it was boring as heck until 4 introduced Pandora! Take that everybody.

The irony here is that I actually consider Gunslinger to be the most "worthless" style of the four. Stylish, yes. Practical and effective, not really

ChewyLSB
Jan 13, 2008

Destroy the core


Gunslinger not effective? Tell that to Gunslinger Artemis in DMC3! Gunslinger Shotgun owned too.

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005



ThePhenomenalBaby posted:

I find the extra mobility absolutely pointless in a game with such small arenas plus the ability to parry ever single attack and converting that energy into damage while Dante has an innate dodge that is good enough to avoid any attack I would want to anyway. I suppose it is more useful in 4 where you have constant access to it but I've always seen little point to it.

The normal dodge sure but air-dash and air teleport are definitely not useless. Air teleport moves straight to your enemy but lets you keep a combo up - the only high mobility moves are usually stuff like stinger which will get you over to an enemy but knock them away again. Air dash is great because you usually don't have too much mobility in the air in DMC games, you can't change direction without using a move or double jumping so a dash is welcome.

Id say its a crutch until you figure out more of the game but it definitely has its place. In DMC3 I always used Swordmaster for the extra moveset though, in specific circumstances Id use Royal Guard instead. In DMC4 theres no reason not to use it since you can teleport over to a guy then use Swordmaster to continue the combo.

Edit: All these posts about different styles and combos of weapons highlight what made DMC3 so good

Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005


I never really used Gunslinger because it brings up bad memories of killing everything with guns in DMC2.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Bonaventure posted:

I never really used Gunslinger because it brings up bad memories of killing everything with guns in DMC2.

Whoever designed Trismagica, Mothra (or whatever the moth's name was), and THAT PIECE OF poo poo SECOND BOSS WITH THE TENTACLES needs to have their boss design rights taken away. The helicopter sucked as well and the skyscraper only skates by on the fact that its second form is actually fun to fight/melee-able.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Bonaventure posted:

I never really used Gunslinger because it brings up bad memories of killing everything with guns in DMC2.

Same here. I really like the guns in theory but damned if DMC2 didn't make me want to melee everything to death.

Tupperwarez
Apr 4, 2004

"phphphphphphpht"? this is what you're going with?

you sure?


This discussion about the merits of individual styles and Devil Arms reminds me that I can't wait to listen to similar discussions regarding DmC's gameplahahahahaha sorry I can't say it with a straight face.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Barudak posted:

I like a lot of DMC2 but yes, it sucks. Don't forget Bolverk's dogs who not only have no tell but attack by moving at seemingly random angles so they're simultaneously impossible to dodge and impossible to melee consistently. Oh and the green golems can just fully heal themselves at any time while the skitter away from you and are nigh-impossible to track.

Seriously, if you draw any comparisons to DMC2 in any way other than interesting mechanical ideas you have done hosed up your game.

It's got some nice ideas and the overall story (four trinkets brought together can create a hell gate for a bad guy) seems resonable enough for a DMC plot - it's just that everything is made and presented in the most terrible way they could possibly make it.

I do remember the golems...urgh...and that underwater level.

lovely enemies, lovely weapons, lovely mechanics, lovely level designs, hilariously lovely voice acting; the list just goes on and on.

It's important to note that it did bring some good things to the series though; Rebellion, quick weapon switching, lock-on targeting, and a few other things IIRC.

[e]:

Tupperwarez posted:

This discussion about the merits of individual styles and Devil Arms reminds me that I can't wait to listen to similar discussions regarding DmC's gameplahahahahaha sorry I can't say it with a straight face.

"Why don't we use that really versatile Style system from DMC 4? That way people will know we really mean business when we talk about the battle sys-"

"ANGEL AND DEVIL MODES!"

"Er..what?"

"PUSH AND PULL! PUSH AND PULL! ANGELS AND DEVILS! IT'S SYMBOLIC!"

"Okay, then why don't we just have them click a button to cycle through both of them-"

"NO! HOLD DOWN THE BUTTONS! HOLD DOWN THE BUTTONS! FUCKFUCKFUCKFCUGKCUGKCUGCKGUCKG!"

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 14:18

ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


Don't forget the underwater invisible fish boss! Inviso-fish or whatever it was called. Sweet boss bro.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



ThePhenomenalBaby posted:

Don't forget the underwater invisible fish boss! Inviso-fish or whatever it was called. Sweet boss bro.

So. many. terrible. bosses. Hell the first form of the final boss once you kill one part of it becomes a horrible joke as it can no longer hit you while you slowly, slowly whittle away it with ranged weapons.

Pesky Splinter posted:

It's important to note that it did bring some good things to the series though; Rebellion, quick weapon switching, lock-on targeting, and a few other things IIRC.

More air control (I like default double jump/bullet hover trick, ok), multi-targeting with weapons, dodge, wall run (was that in DMC1? I don't recall), gunslinger techniques like fireworks, and most importantly mission select.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Barudak posted:

wall run (was that in DMC1? I don't recall),

Nah, that was one of the things they were advertising heavily about the game from what I recall.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Barudak posted:

So. many. terrible. bosses. Hell the first form of the final boss once you kill one part of it becomes a horrible joke as it can no longer hit you while you slowly, slowly whittle away it with ranged weapons.

Urgh...it's all coming back to me.

Barudak posted:

More air control (I like default double jump/bullet hover trick, ok), multi-targeting with weapons, dodge, wall run (was that in DMC1? I don't recall), gunslinger techniques like fireworks, and most importantly mission select.

Nope, wall run was another thing that DMC2 brought to the series to make up for how horrible the actual game is. Oh, and they made the Bloody Palace mode as well.

[e]: Beaten.

Elswyyr
Mar 4, 2009


If I only pick up one game, should I get DMC 3 or 4?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Elswyyr posted:

If I only pick up one game, should I get DMC 3 or 4?

What are you getting it on? The PC port of DMC3 is pretty crap if I recall.

Elswyyr
Mar 4, 2009


ImpAtom posted:

What are you getting it on? The PC port of DMC3 is pretty crap if I recall.

I'm going to play on PC, but I can always just run a PS2 disc on an emulator.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


Elswyyr posted:

If I only pick up one game, should I get DMC 3 or 4?

Well, if you decide on DMC4, it may ruin you on DMC3 since it has a lot of interface and gameplay streamlining/improvements. However, I think DMC3 is a more solid game in terms of flow, and its environment design and story are better than DMC4's. I realize the latter point really isn't saying much, but hey, DMC3 is still considered the crown jewel of the series since it really was that great in its time.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

I would say DMC4. The combat systems are very similar, but DMC4 looks much nicer. Plus you get to play around with a whole new character, Nero.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Elswyyr posted:

I'm going to play on PC, but I can always just run a PS2 disc on an emulator.

Well, I'd wait for the next steam sale for DMC4 then. It always goes on sale for super cheap then. Play DMC3 first and then move on to 4.

Coughing Hobo
Jun 29, 2005

Dante's allowance - $100


Elswyyr posted:

I'm going to play on PC, but I can always just run a PS2 disc on an emulator.

DMC4, then. It runs beautifully smooth on PC, and you get access to Legendary Dark Knight mode, the best thing to ever happen to Devil May Cry.

ChewyLSB
Jan 13, 2008

Destroy the core


Personally I think DMC3 is the better game so I would get DMC3 instead of 4 if I had to recommend one game. Although the PC version of DMC4 is definitely better than DMC3.

Dash O Pepper
Sep 22, 2006



TechnoSyndrome posted:

What's wrong with the HD Collection? Everything I heard made it sound like it was bare-bones but completely competent. I've never played any of the Devil May Cry games before and was planning on eventually picking up the 360 version.

A little late but,

The thing to note, it is not an HD re-release like the ICO/Shadow of the Colossus collection, it is an upscaled port of the 3 games.

The issues are mostly graphical but off the top of my head:
-random low res cutscenes that were not upscaled
-spotty lag issues
-some animations and effects were replaced with still textures
-slow menus, the game select menu looks insanely poor
-removed the mini-game from DMC3 (mostly a "why?")
-some other stuff

I ran into a few freezes in DMC1, and was also able to dodge into an invisible wall and was permanently stuck. I noticed less bugs in with DMC3, but that isn't to say there weren't any.

From what I've read a lot of these issues are PS3 only and that the 360 version has less problems, but if you already own the games there's almost no point

tl;dr: it's loving lazy as hell

Dash O Pepper fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2012 around 16:34

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Destructoid put up a video of one of their morons playing it.

http://www.destructoid.com/dmc-has-...ay-229377.phtml

I especially enjoyed the part where the person writing states that he only played the first, but this one is just like all the others.

User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

Alteisen posted:

Destructoid put up a video of one of their morons playing it.

http://www.destructoid.com/dmc-has-...ay-229377.phtml

I especially enjoyed the part where the person writing states that he only played the first, but this one is just like all the others.

*clicks link*

"DmC has camera eyeballs and off-screen anal play"

*closes window*

We should just talk about how amazing Devil May Cry and Bayonetta are.
I also really like those TrueStyle tournaments. I think earlier in the thread I linked a tutorial video to show just had complicated some of those things can get. I'm curious if they have a different button layout, because the style buttons are the D-pad, and it would always mess me up trying to switch from D-pad to thumb-stick while keeping up with everything. I wish they actually had a button where you could hold it (say, shoulder button), tap the thumb stick, and swap to that style, so you never have to take your thumb off.

Really wish they had allowed you to play through the whole game as one of the characters as an unlock. I know that would be tricky with Dante and platforming puzzles, but they could have just let us enemy step/Trickster across. It would have been fine!

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Alteisen posted:

Destructoid put up a video of one of their morons playing it.

http://www.destructoid.com/dmc-has-...ay-229377.phtml

And Destructoid continues to prove themeselves a shining star of journalism.

keet
Aug 20, 2005



Pesky Splinter posted:


Similar thing for Bayonetta - yeah, I know she's basically a parody of herself and everything she does is sexualised, but she has such an air of cheesy charm, like she knows she it's cheesy but has fun with it, and to use your words, live life without a single gently caress given. But it's effortless. It doesn't try to aim for campy cheese. It is campy cheese and just rolls with it.


Despite the tired joke, from a design standpoint Bayonetta really does remind me of a drag queen, in the sense stuff is so overwrought but in a sense of having fun and giving no fucks at all.

Renoistic
Jul 27, 2007

Everyone has a
guardian angel.


Could someone explain Royal Guard (DMC3) to me? I never understood what made it useful, really.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

Renoistic posted:

Could someone explain Royal Guard (DMC3) to me? I never understood what made it useful, really.

If you are a spergelord who is willing to spend hours praticing on every enemy then eventually you can use Royalguard to do perfect blocks (take no damage) or counters (release built-up block energy to kill demons.)

Dominic White
Nov 1, 2005



penguinmambo posted:

Despite the tired joke, from a design standpoint Bayonetta really does remind me of a drag queen, in the sense stuff is so overwrought but in a sense of having fun and giving no fucks at all.

Yeah, Bayonetta is sexual in largely the same way that the Rocky Horror Picture Show is. It's so absurdly camp that it leaves the bounds of any conventional sexuality and potential to offend and happily struts all over into the realm of comedy.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



notZaar posted:

If you are a spergelord who is willing to spend hours praticing on every enemy then eventually you can use Royalguard to do perfect blocks (take no damage) or counters (release built-up block energy to kill demons.)

It's been a long time since I've played but if I recall correctly I think practically anything can be blocked with perfect timing, even environmental hazards like landing on spikes and stuff

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



Balobam posted:

Still have yet to play Vanquish, have heard good things but just never got round to it.

Come DmC's release I'm just going to get Vanquish and see how that goes.

Here's a video that I recorded a long time ago in preparation for a Let's Play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGL1qWBFNAg

That's just from the second stage, which was used for the demo.

If you want to really enjoy Vanquish, you mustn't play it like Gears of War. I didn't spend any time in cover, because I can dodge rockets, and can also avoid most enemy fire by using the boost effectively.

When I do get round to recording the full Let's Play, I'll be recording using component video, I'll keep the custcenes and subtitles in and I'll be playing on hard mode. My only aim is to get more people to try this game out.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Renoistic posted:

Could someone explain Royal Guard (DMC3) to me? I never understood what made it useful, really.

It's effectively a parry mechanic. If you master it you can do ridiculous damage while negating pretty much every attack in the game.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

That loving Sned posted:

Here's a video that I recorded a long time ago in preparation for a Let's Play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGL1qWBFNAg

That's just from the second stage, which was used for the demo.

If you want to really enjoy Vanquish, you mustn't play it like Gears of War. I didn't spend any time in cover, because I can dodge rockets, and can also avoid most enemy fire by using the boost effectively.

When I do get round to recording the full Let's Play, I'll be recording using component video, I'll keep the custcenes and subtitles in and I'll be playing on hard mode. My only aim is to get more people to try this game out.
This is awesome and I hope you finish this LP. Vanquish got a LP already but it's loving awful and you're pretty darn good at this game.

Speaking of LP, I hope AccountingNightmare continues her DMC4 LP someday soon.

User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

notZaar posted:

This is awesome and I hope you finish this LP. Vanquish got a LP already but it's loving awful and you're pretty darn good at this game.

Speaking of LP, I hope AccountingNightmare continues her DMC4 LP someday soon.

I thought she finished it?

Italax
May 10, 2012

Part of the problem.

User0015 posted:

I thought she finished it?

She finished the main Nero part, it's worth watching for that alone really.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



notZaar posted:

This is awesome and I hope you finish this LP. Vanquish got a LP already but it's loving awful and you're pretty darn good at this game.

Thanks! Although I enjoyed their Shenmue LP, I couldn't get through the Tipping 40's Vanquish LP simply because of how bad they were. These sorts of games aren't fun to watch when the player doesn't know what they are doing.

User0015 posted:

I thought she finished it?

She took a break after Nero's section of the game to brush up her Dante skills.

keet
Aug 20, 2005



Dominic White posted:

Yeah, Bayonetta is sexual in largely the same way that the Rocky Horror Picture Show is. It's so absurdly camp that it leaves the bounds of any conventional sexuality and potential to offend and happily struts all over into the realm of comedy.

It also makes you take a second look at that Luka guy, who you think is some kinda bumbling sidekick till you realize in the "normal" game he pulls off some ridiculously cool stuff. How are the past DMC about that? Usually I just hear of Dante himself being the one who is poo poo bananas.

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Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life,
I think I've gone too far.


Well, Lady does make it pretty far up the tower in DMC3 and she's human. I don't remember if you see her pull off the same kind of super crazy that Dante does, though. I never played it and it's been a long time since I saw AccountingNightmare's LP.

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