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toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


Sega's been responsible for a lot of dumb poo poo lately, and I'm surprised they haven't gone under ever since the Dreamcast died and Sonic was reduced to a joke.

This Bombcast clip sums Sega's treatment of their main franchise up pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZo81-wuS0. I can only hope that Platinum can re-acquire their property if/once Sega gives up the ghost, and that one of the industry's best contenders for action brawlers doesn't end up getting dragged into oblivion.

On topic though, I want to see NT port to Wii U. Put your money where your mouth is, NT: justify all that passive-aggressive poo poo you said about Bayonetta and take them head-on.

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Chucat
Apr 14, 2006

Childrens' stories about witches and wizards, especially those written by middle-aged women, are an integral part of the current face of literature. I think you would do well to give them the respect they deserve.


I get the feeling I asked this before, but I can't remember the exact answer I was given, and I must have asked around 4+ months ago.

I'm in the very, very strange camp where my fave DMC game is the first one, pretty much for four reasons:

- It's slow, brutal and methodical, especially compared to later games. (Like the best analogy I can come up with is beating someone to death with a hammer.)
- The move system emphasizes a few, easy to execute, but powerful and versatile moves, as opposed to either a dial a combo system or a ton of moves with dubious use.
- A small number of weapons that completely and utterly change the playstyle of the game.
- Enemy and boss design that are either puzzles (Working out how this is different to a gimmick is actually really hard), or something that just lets you just let your hair down and try out sick combos.

DMC3 sort of deviated from most of these (especially enemy and boss design), but the weapons were different enough and there were several powerful moves that completely changed the playstyle of the game (Artemis with Gunslinger for example). While on the other hand, Bayonetta was a complete reversal of all of those, which meant I could see why it was good, but it just sat badly for me.

So I suppose what I'm asking is, what games would I like?

PS I enjoyed DMC4 because the Devil Bringer is actually really, really interesting and adds a ton to the game, but then I didn't like the Drive (I think???) mechanic because it relied too much on really weird timing.

Wrist Watch
Apr 19, 2011

What?



Lipstick Apathy

Chucat posted:

- It's slow, brutal and methodical, especially compared to later games. (Like the best analogy I can come up with is beating someone to death with a hammer.)
- The move system emphasizes a few, easy to execute, but powerful and versatile moves, as opposed to either a dial a combo system or a ton of moves with dubious use.
- A small number of weapons that completely and utterly change the playstyle of the game.
- Enemy and boss design that are either puzzles (Working out how this is different to a gimmick is actually really hard), or something that just lets you just let your hair down and try out sick combos.

So I suppose what I'm asking is, what games would I like?

Demons' Souls/Dark Souls? They hit pretty every point you listed (save the part about combos). I just got them last week and I am loving getting my rear end handed to me repeatedly.

Seriously, they're really, really good.

A True Jar Jar Fan
Nov 3, 2003

Diamond


toasterwarrior posted:

From Giant Bomb's comments section, people are saying that Sega actually didn't even want to continue Bayonetta and that Nintendo is the only reason Bayo2 is seeing the light of day.

gently caress Sega indeed if this is true, because the only good thing I've seen with their logo on it in the past few years is Shogun 2: Total War under Creative Assembly. Exclusivity (hopefully timed, but probably not) is better than seeing a series waste away under an incompetent publisher.
Sega actually did promote Bayonetta decently and put up a lot of money for Platinum to make some really fantastic games. I don't really see the point of demonizing them when without their funding there's a good chance the original Bayonetta would have never happened. I'm happy Nintendo stepped up to the bill for Bayonetta 2, but I'd rather celebrate that then condemn Sega.

Besides that Sega still makes the Yakuza games and they get enough goodwill from me for that, even if they do make a lot of blunders.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


Yeah, that came off rather harsh, and I apologize for making them out to be some malicious force. I just find it really disappointing that it's been a decade since they fell from grace and that they've barely made progress recovering from it in all that time.

They have a decent spread of properties with cult/strong followings, but most of what Sega's done with them have, at best, kept the company afloat. It's a drat shame when a company with history rots away, and we've seen enough IPs that have sentimental value to a lot of people get neglected or misused.

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Platinum releases statement regarding Bayonettas exclusivity.

http://www.destructoid.com/platinum...ty-235008.phtml

They don't wish to alienate fans and strengthen the franchise, so naturally the answer to this is to make it exclusive for a brand new console.

Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005


Alteisen posted:

Platinum releases statement regarding Bayonettas exclusivity.

http://www.destructoid.com/platinum...ty-235008.phtml

They don't wish to alienate fans and strengthen the franchise, so naturally the answer to this is to make it exclusive for a brand new console.

Read between the lines: without Nintendo's backing, a sequel wouldn't have happened at all.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

Watching PlatinumGames prosper like this is just great. I hope somewhere in the bowels of Capcom the executives who gutted Clover are being flagellated.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



notZaar posted:

Watching PlatinumGames prosper like this is just great. I hope somewhere in the bowels of Capcom the executives who gutted Clover are being flagellated.

I love God Hand more than somebody should but given how poo poo those games sold it wasn't like it was a tough decision to nix that studio.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Same with Okami - great visuals and good story, characters and setting, smooth controls, nice music, etc. Like God Hand though, it sold like poo poo.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

The only reason I even knew about God Hand is because I happened to see it on the shelf at Gamestop. Capcom left that game out to dry, its their fault it didn't sell.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



notZaar posted:

The only reason I even knew about God Hand is because I happened to see it on the shelf at Gamestop. Capcom left that game out to dry, its their fault it didn't sell.

If they hyped up Okami only half as much as the undying corpse that is sonic.
Oh to dream

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


notZaar posted:

The only reason I even knew about God Hand is because I happened to see it on the shelf at Gamestop. Capcom left that game out to dry, its their fault it didn't sell.

No it is not. The game could've sold better than it did if they tried to market it, but it still did not have a good audience in the west, hell it was actually marketed somewhat decently in Japan and still managed to only sell modestly. God Hand is not a game that appeals to a great deal of people, especially for the time it came out in, even if it is a really fun game. Okami is more of the same, a game filled to the brim with Japanese culture is not going to sell well in the west, even when every reviewer out there was singing its praises, it just does not appeal to a western audience. I don't know how Okami did in Japan, but I have to believe it did well enough over there.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



Sex_Ferguson posted:

No it is not. The game could've sold better than it did if they tried to market it, but it still did not have a good audience in the west, hell it was actually marketed somewhat decently in Japan and still managed to only sell modestly. God Hand is not a game that appeals to a great deal of people, especially for the time it came out in, even if it is a really fun game. Okami is more of the same, a game filled to the brim with Japanese culture is not going to sell well in the west, even when every reviewer out there was singing its praises, it just does not appeal to a western audience. I don't know how Okami did in Japan, but I have to believe it did well enough over there.

It's got that Dark/demons souls cult charm.
Just sadly not the success.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Sex_Ferguson posted:

No it is not. The game could've sold better than it did if they tried to market it, but it still did not have a good audience in the west, hell it was actually marketed somewhat decently in Japan and still managed to only sell modestly. God Hand is not a game that appeals to a great deal of people, especially for the time it came out in, even if it is a really fun game. Okami is more of the same, a game filled to the brim with Japanese culture is not going to sell well in the west, even when every reviewer out there was singing its praises, it just does not appeal to a western audience. I don't know how Okami did in Japan, but I have to believe it did well enough over there.

Okami (PS2) NA and PAL regions 630,000 (Japan: 150,000)
Wii version: NA and PAL regions 510,000 (Japan: 35,000)

Total worldwide sales: 1.1 million.

Okamiden sales: NA and PAL regions 340,000 (Japan: 128,000)

God Hand: 70,000 worldwide

[e]: And you can all rest easy about that so-called DMC movie trailer - turns out it's just an ad for DmC.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Sep 15, 2012 around 02:04

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


I'm really shocked that Okami sold that badly in Japan. Is there any reason as to why it did so much worse over there?

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Sex_Ferguson posted:

I'm really shocked that Okami sold that badly in Japan. Is there any reason as to why it did so much worse over there?

Protagonist was a dog instead of an angsty teenager.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Sex_Ferguson posted:

I'm really shocked that Okami sold that badly in Japan. Is there any reason as to why it did so much worse over there?

Could be lots of reasons. It just happens. To be honest, I'm amazed it even got a sequel.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


That new trailer can be found on this page, in a very grainy state.

http://devilmaycry.org/community/th...n.11838/page-11

Not much to say really, other than it's a generic action trailer. The only conversation goes:
"Who the hell are you?"
"My name is...Dante. Tell them...I'm coming".

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Sep 15, 2012 around 11:05

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life,
I think I've gone too far.


notZaar posted:

The only reason I even knew about God Hand is because I happened to see it on the shelf at Gamestop. Capcom left that game out to dry, its their fault it didn't sell.

God Hand got some hype in at least game magazines. The ad with the God Hand punching through a guy's mouth and out the back of his head (like it phased through his skull) was pretty memorable.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


I'm reminded of how terrible IGN is again:

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


Listen, getting SSS in all missions in Baby Must Burp mode was my greatest gaming achievement

Yeah, "reviews" like that convinced me that Giant Bomb's reasoning against the usual review scoring system for games was sound, and now I look to their Quick Looks as a better metric for whether I might want to drop cash on a game.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


IGN doesn't know what they're talking about, terrible voice acting. Who in the hell hates Daran Norris playing a completely straight evil guy in a purple suit and Jamieson Price speaking in a thick spanish accent.

I'M GETTING HUNGRY HOMBRE

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

Sex_Ferguson posted:

No it is not. The game could've sold better than it did if they tried to market it, but it still did not have a good audience in the west, hell it was actually marketed somewhat decently in Japan and still managed to only sell modestly. God Hand is not a game that appeals to a great deal of people, especially for the time it came out in, even if it is a really fun game. Okami is more of the same, a game filled to the brim with Japanese culture is not going to sell well in the west, even when every reviewer out there was singing its praises, it just does not appeal to a western audience. I don't know how Okami did in Japan, but I have to believe it did well enough over there.

I don't buy that. Look how well Katamari Damacy did over here. There is a market, and they will pony up for these games if you know how to reach them. Plus God Hand is not even all that out there as far as Japanese games go, it doesn't frighten anybody away with a horrible pastel moe box art for one thing. Comical violence is universally appealing. Looking at the game itself it's also obvious that Capcom pulled the plug on it when it was half done, the only thing polished about it is the core gameplay.
Capcom had a good thing that they didn't know what to do with, so they killed it. It's that simple.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


I don't think Katamari Damacy is a good example, it was a new game both in style and in gameplay which is something very attractive to people especially during 2004 where people were willing to try anything. As appealing to most people as God Hand may seem, it's still a beat 'em up game being released during a time of the Seventh Generation's coming and a time when beat 'em up games barely even existed so interest in them was small. Thinking that God Hand failing was Capcom's fault is ridiculous, there are many things to show for God Hand's failure, but I really doubt Capcom actively tried to not make money in God Hand's case. People seem to have this disposition to believe that Capcom hated Clover and held them down, but that seems ridiculous since at the time Clover was still under their name and making them money and the idea Capcom is trying to not make money really seems idiotic to me.

A True Jar Jar Fan
Nov 3, 2003

Diamond


notZaar posted:

I don't buy that. Look how well Katamari Damacy did over here. There is a market, and they will pony up for these games if you know how to reach them. Plus God Hand is not even all that out there as far as Japanese games go, it doesn't frighten anybody away with a horrible pastel moe box art for one thing. Comical violence is universally appealing. Looking at the game itself it's also obvious that Capcom pulled the plug on it when it was half done, the only thing polished about it is the core gameplay.
Capcom had a good thing that they didn't know what to do with, so they killed it. It's that simple.
A big reason Katamari did as well as it did was the fact that Namco was willing to sell it at a budget price and then advertise it. Maybe if every niche game wasn't $60 more people would take a chance on them!

Sir Ilpalazzo
Sep 4, 2012


To be fair, God Hand was $30.

A True Jar Jar Fan
Nov 3, 2003

Diamond


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

To be fair, God Hand was $30.
That does surprise me, then. By the time I bought it, Clover was already folded and the game was in bargain bins.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



There's a big difference between Katamari and Godhand.

Anyone can pick up Katamari and get a vividly colorful and easy to play game whose charm just radiates from the screen. It's very easy to play and almost anyone who plays it will be able to pick up the mechanics in a matter of moments. The humor in the game is bizarre and surreal but relatively charming and friendly and unlikely to offend anyone even if they don't get it.

God Hand is a very brown and somewhat ugly game, at least in the earlier parts. The mechanics are unclear and somewhat poorly explained and it is very possible, even easy, to die in the very first section of the game without any clear indication of what is going on. This doesn't make it a bad game but it doesn't make it a great pick-up-and-play game, even at a budget price. The humor involved in it is tongue-in-cheek but also involves a fair amount of material which could bother people even despite being tongue-in-cheek.

God Hand is in no way a bad game but I really think people overestimate its general appeal. It has a lot of interesting aspects, but you have to really invest yourself in it to fully appreciate them, and even then it might not be for you. Even if Capcom had advertised it better, I don't see it doing fantastic.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Sep 15, 2012 around 19:36

The Vampirate
Apr 12, 2011

by T. Finninho


Pesky Splinter posted:

I'm reminded of how terrible IGN is again:


I love how when you average together a seven, six, two fives, and a 2.5 you get three somehow.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



The Vampirate posted:

I love how when you average together a seven, six, two fives, and a 2.5 you get three somehow.

It says in that picture "not an average."

Balobam
Apr 28, 2012



ImpAtom posted:

It says in that picture "not an average."

I like how it still makes little to no sense. One score dropped to a 3 or below, so the entire game is probably a 3, despite all its other assets being greater.

That IGN and its wacky ways.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


Balobam posted:

I like how it still makes little to no sense. One score dropped to a 3 or below, so the entire game is probably a 3, despite all its other assets being greater.

That IGN and its wacky ways.

The whole may be better or worse than the sum of its parts, that's why it's not just an average.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Balobam posted:

I like how it still makes little to no sense. One score dropped to a 3 or below, so the entire game is probably a 3, despite all its other assets being greater.

That IGN and its wacky ways.

I don't agree with the review but if the gameplay of a game really sucks, I'm not sure it deserves a good review even if everything else is good. Godhand doesn't necessarily count but I can think of plenty of games that have great visuals and godawful gameplay which get good reviews entirely because they have shiny graphics. (And Godhand sure doesn't have shiny graphics.)

I mean, DmC will probably have great visuals (since that is what Ninja Theory excels at) but I'd be annoyed if it got great reviews even if the gameplay ends up being bad.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Dante's moves for Playstation all stars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P960BGXTer4

I have no shame in admitting that I could barely tell what the gently caress was going on in that video, and who was doing what. I kept confusing Nathan Drake for Dante.

ImpAtom posted:

I mean, DmC will probably have great visuals (since that is what Ninja Theory excels at) but I'd be annoyed if it got great reviews even if the gameplay ends up being bad.

It's already won a few awards from the various cons it's been previewed at (which means bugger all in reality). And the slobbering reviewers of the various Gaming Journalism websites, just stopping short of saying that this is the second coming of Christ.
This is my guess for how things like IGN and its ilk will review it; that there will be almost universal praise for the story and visuals, regardless of how good/bad they turn out to be, and average to good, for the gameplay. And maybe even a few mentions of Dante's hair for good measure.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Sep 19, 2012 around 00:52

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Pesky Splinter posted:

Dante's moves for Playstation all stars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P960BGXTer4

I have no shame in admitting that I could barely tell what the gently caress was going on in that video, and who was doing what. I kept confusing Nathan Drake for Dante.

Wow, that game looks even more boring then I thought. Dante looks Dante though, decently ranged melee with different weapons and piddly guns.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Pesky Splinter posted:

Dante's moves for Playstation all stars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P960BGXTer4

I have no shame in admitting that I could barely tell what the gently caress was going on in that video, and who was doing what. I kept confusing Nathan Drake for Dante.

Man, Sony, are you opposed to colors or something? Why the hell don't those character pop more?

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


ImpAtom posted:

Man, Sony, are you opposed to colors or something? Why the hell don't those character pop more?

It doesn't help, that it's a dark stage either.

[e]: Oh, and apprently some new stuff is coming out during the course of the TGS. Possibly a new level, or weapon or something like that.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Sep 19, 2012 around 00:57

Barudak
May 7, 2007



ImpAtom posted:

Man, Sony, are you opposed to colors or something? Why the hell don't those character pop more?

Then people calling it a Super Smash Brothers Clone will be correct and Sony's house of cards will collapse. Its the only thing keeping their sinister plot secret!

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FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

Pesky Splinter posted:

It doesn't help, that it's a dark stage either.

[e]: Oh, and apprently some new stuff is coming out during the course of the TGS. Possibly a new level, or weapon or something like that.

I just looked up the website for this trade show to see when it's going to be held, and they have one of the most horrifying mascots I've seen in recent memory. Some sort of horrible pastel robot barbie doll.

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