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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



He looks like a douchebag.

I really mean that. His design just screams "I am a giant douchebag" and the art they put out for it all highlights is massive douchebaggery. He's either crawling in his skin or pointing at his cock.

Old Dante was a bit of one too, but accentuated by different stuff. He was cartoonish and cocky. The new one is incredibly self-serious and the few moments they show of him seeming self-aware and more "I am so loving awesome"-style douchebaggery instead of goofy-rear end "This party's getting CRA-ZY" douchebaggery.

The new Dante is anti-establishment made by part of the establishment which likes to pretend it is anti-establishment. It's kind of embarrassing honestly, which I think highlights how douchebag Dante is.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2012 around 20:14

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Three Cookies
Apr 9, 2010



I kind of like how he manages to look more like a dirtbag than Travis Touchdown. I mean it's awful. But it's just how awful it is that gets me.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Classic Dante seemed to have a sense of fun about him. 3 and 4 goof off with most of the bosses, while 1 was more reserved, but seemed to enjoy the fight, nonetheless.

The New One is basically "Aren't I just loving A. Hehe. I'm such a badass, look at me call you a fucker. Hehehe."

ImpAtom posted:

I really mean that. His design just screams "I am a giant douchebag" and the art they put out for it all highlights is massive douchebaggery. He's either crawling in his skin or pointing at his cock.
...

The new Dante is anti-establishment made by part of the establishment which likes to pretend it is anti-establishment. It's kind of embarrassing honestly, which I think highlights how douchebag Dante is.

You've hit the nail on the head; that's pretty much what they're saying in that article, unawares. And it is loving embarrassing:

quote:

"Rebellion is the name of his sword and that's the attitude he has," Tameem says. "That's really the theme of the game. Rebellion in all its forms happens really young. When you look at icons of rebellion, like the punk movement, The Pistols, The Clash, the Jack Kerouac novels and James Dean, these are all characters that come out of their more idyllic teenage years into a totally oppressive or dysfunctional adulthood. That's where rebellion really has its strength - that energy of youth and that fury. So it felt like that was a good starting point."

Is there a part of Tameem that's in Dante?

"I never grew up in the kind of poverty that requires rebellion."

He's been described as emo...

"That's a strange one. I had to look up what emo was."

Really?

"Yeah. I'm familiar with goth and industrial, but not emo. I had to look up what it was."

You haven't seen Twilight?

"I have since then, because everybody said he looks like the guy in Twilight, so then I watched Twilight to see what they're on about.

"First off, talk about demonising a sub-culture. I'm not going to say emo is bad. Each to their own. There are loads of tribes around. But I can't see what's emo about him. He's a young guy, dresses pretty down to earth. He was maybe a bit skinnier when we first announced him, which is maybe where it came from, but he's not really now. He's a pretty well-formed, buff, pretty athletic guy.

"It seems like unless you've got a jock-style physique you're automatically emo in video games, which isn't right. By that standard Ryan Gosling's an emo. So I don't get it. I think it's a meme that's just been self-perpetuating. When it's said it's said with a distaste. I think it's a little unfair really."

How would you describe him then?

"He's a rebellious character. He represents rebellious youth and energy and violence against an oppressive demon controlled regime. He is Dante."


A rebel without a cause - gently caress you Tameem. gently caress you. It's like a 40yo trying to fit in a 20s disco by being all 'hip' and 'groovy', and 'down with the kids'.

"Can't see where the emo bit comes from", he says, as one of his artists draws Dante looking like he's just stepped out of a Linkin' Park song.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2012 around 20:34

SirDan3k
Jan 6, 2001

Trust me, you are taking this a lot more seriously then I am.


Pesky Splinter posted:

Oh gently caress this noise:


I, no joke, heard "Crawling in my skin" start up in my mind when I saw that.

I've never had a picture trigger a musical memory before but there you go. It's not even funny anymore just kinda disheartening how bad the design is and how many people just loving love it.

SirDan3k fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2012 around 20:41

Wrist Watch
Apr 19, 2011

What?



Lipstick Apathy

ImpAtom posted:

He ripped his chest open so he could see his own beating heart. It was described earlier.

Where's all the blood, then? Does he just not bleed much because he's not human? That's a pretty bad wound, and that the worst of the effects we can see are a few trails running down his chest it really loving creepy. It's not just a cut, he can put his finger in there down to the second joint.

I don't think "It's DmC, don't take it too seriously" gets to apply here when the game and developers are all but pleading for me to take it super seriously.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


It turned into red orbs.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2012 around 20:52

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004


I hate how the gaming press is so supportive of NT. Its like Dragon Age 2 all over again.

Renoistic
Jul 27, 2007

Everyone has a
guardian angel.


GT battle preview. They are very positive, of course. I think it looks mostly alright but the air combos seem way off.

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/...-combat-preview

Magil of Shadow
Dec 28, 2009

Proposal: Form a friendly relationship immediately.

"You have GOT to be kidding me"




I still think the only way this game can be saved, even with having more skins then DMC4, would be the ending I suggested in the DMC4 LP thread, where the end of the game hits, and it goes to a man in the bar telling the story, when suddenly, Classic Dante kicks down the door, and is all "Enzo, you shithead, you can't even get ONE story right? What the hell! Alright, anyone who wants to hear the real story? Go buy the DMC HD Collection, available in stores now!"

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



I'm not a big fan of Ninja Theory, but their attempts at "irony" and "satire" are such that this could possibly actually happen.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



Pesky Splinter posted:

C'mon man, you didn't just diss Aliens now?

What's your opinion on the demo, That loving Sned? Yay, or nay?

Alien 3 was better.


Without lock-on, I found it difficult to keep the camera focused on enemies, especially when fighting a group of them. After DMC4 gave you three distinct setting to ensure you target the enemy you want, in addition to showing you the enemies' health in the targeting reticule, having it taken away just feels so inelegant. You end up just swatting away whichever enemy gets too close to you, and stringing together a combo just feels like too much work when you need to direct each of your attacks towards the enemy.

I beat the Slurm Queen by just using my Demon weapon over and over again. I tried using the dodge button to avoid her attacks, but it doesn't seem to grant you any invincibility frames, and she did so little damage that you could tank her attacks. The hookshot segments felt really unresponsive, but it was generous enough that I'd latch on just before I'd fall to my death.


Metal Gear Rising is the next true Devil May Cry game. Beating the boss in the demo was absolutely exhilarating, and by the end I was parrying every one of its attacks. I've pre-ordered the Metal Gear Rising limited edition, and DmC is going on my rental list for when I've got nothing better to play.


Edit: Fine, DmC is the Alien: Resurrection of the Devil May Cry series.

That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2012 around 22:24

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004


Whedon would actually IMPROVE the game with his love off "too cool" action movie quips.

Although the angels would all be barefoot.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


I know we're still all mad about the Linkin Park image with Dante in the bathroom, but can I just say that this image killed me?

Pesky Splinter posted:

Death of Eva

gently caress you, you steryotypical angel chick.

Oh my god, please tell me I'm not the only one who laughed at this image. Beyond the fact that kid Dante is carrying his mother who's twice his size bridal style, you've got got like eight angels crying over him to make the most tryhard image I've seen to make me try and care about some chick we haven't even seen in the trailers yet.

Also, wasn't there some thing about how NT was going to make the angels evil too or something? Or did I imagine that up in some dream?

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


The comment sections in most of those sites is what blows my mind, sometimes I'm convinced half of them are marketers for Capcom, because apparently DmC having 4 extra difficulties(which have been a series staple since 3) is news, also different enemy layouts is this amazing innovating thing, not something that's a genre staple and has been in DMC as well since the beginning.

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life,
I think I've gone too far.


That loving Sned posted:

Edit: Fine, DmC is the Alien: Resurrection of the Devil May Cry series.

That is not cool, man. That is going too far.

That weird, creepy xenomorph half-breed thing looked awesome. Also, xenomorphs loving with a scientist.

Stygi
Oct 12, 2012


That loving Sned posted:

I tried using the dodge button to avoid her attacks, but it doesn't seem to grant you any invincibility frames
So the dodge has little to no invulnerability frames? That's not good. Having to move out of an attack's hitbox to avoid damage wasn't fun in God of War and time has not sweetened it.

Alacron
Feb 15, 2007

-->Have tearful reunion with your son
-->Eh

Fun Shoe

Sex_Ferguson posted:

I know we're still all mad about the Linkin Park image with Dante in the bathroom, but can I just say that this image killed me?


Oh my god, please tell me I'm not the only one who laughed at this image. Beyond the fact that kid Dante is carrying his mother who's twice his size bridal style, you've got got like eight angels crying over him to make the most tryhard image I've seen to make me try and care about some chick we haven't even seen in the trailers yet.

Also, wasn't there some thing about how NT was going to make the angels evil too or something? Or did I imagine that up in some dream?

No, I laughed too, and for the exact same reasons you did. Also, apparently Dante has had that same awful haircut since he was a kid? Him and Vergil probably came straight out of the womb with those haircuts they have and big douchey grins. Sparda and Eva take one look at them, go "gently caress this" and ship them off to an orphanage.

As for the "Angels are also bad guys" thing, I'm sure NT is saving that for the final twist and/or sequel hook.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



Sex_Ferguson posted:

Also, wasn't there some thing about how NT was going to make the angels evil too or something? Or did I imagine that up in some dream?

I can think of a much better game that it might be ripping off...

Stygi posted:

So the dodge has little to no invulnerability frames? That's not good. Having to move out of an attack's hitbox to avoid damage wasn't fun in God of War and time has not sweetened it.

It took me a long time to realise that blocking is the only effective way of avoiding damage in the God of War games. You also get the Golden Fleece shortly into God of War II, which allows you to parry attacks with an extremely powerful counter. Devil May Cry does something similar with the Royal Guard style, but its timing is more strict and it needs to be equipped for you to block.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Apparently the Japanese version will feature "subtle changes" due to the sexual and violent content, to comply with the stricter Japanese ratings board.

And an interview of sorts between Itsuno and Tameem.

quote:

Despite an inherent difference in values between East and West, Itsuno states there were no "sacred cows" regarding the design of the new game or the creation of Dante that Capcom did not allow developer Ninja Theory to experiment with.

"The goal was to make a Western-facing Dante," says Itsuno. "Once we got the character modeled in the game we offer a different kind of feedback, it was a more technically oriented kind of feedback. Once the lighting is on you start picking things up on the character that you didn't see before on the 2D image. So we gave technical feedback here about getting the model to fit nicely with the lighting.

"In the feedback early on we largely tried to take as hands off an approach as possible. The goal of using Ninja Theory was to have a sort of Western coolness attached to the character, so we gave occasional feedback just through the view of a Japanese lens of what we thought would make a cool character but we were very careful to offer those as just suggestions."

However Ninja Theory's Tameem Antoniades tells Polygon the resulting "coolness" of the game was neither a Western nor Eastern sensibility but rather what he describes as a general commentary on rebellion.

"I don't know how you define 'cool,'" said Antoniades. "If someone says they're cool they're automatically not cool. but I think it's about being original and honest. And I think when you try to look outside of video games you see what's being missed in video games as a whole. We looked up a lot of fashion and we went to a lot of gigs, we tried to understand where this concept of 'cool' come from.

"What is behind what we consider cool, as opposed to asking what items of clothing simply look cool. Where does it come from? In that sense we went right back to the source of originality and coolness which is often a commentary on rebellion."


Go gently caress yourself, Antoniades. You've done nothing of the sort.

Source:http://www.polygon.com/2012/11/1/35...apanese-release

Sex_Ferguson posted:

Also, wasn't there some thing about how NT was going to make the angels evil too or something? Or did I imagine that up in some dream?

Something like that, though they haven't brought it up since. Unless they've put in a twist like Alacron said.

“No! I must kill the angels” he shouted
Lilith said “No, Mundus. You are the angels”
And then Mundus was a angel.

[e]: And a minor correction on the diffculty modes, the basic ones are named:
Human - Easy
Devil Hunter - Normal
Nephilim - Hard, named after the offspring of angels and humans (way to gently caress up again NT).

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Nov 2, 2012 around 00:43

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



That loving Sned posted:


It took me a long time to realise that blocking is the only effective way of avoiding damage in the God of War games. You also get the Golden Fleece shortly into God of War II, which allows you to parry attacks with an extremely powerful counter. Devil May Cry does something similar with the Royal Guard style, but its timing is more strict and it needs to be equipped for you to block.

Except the golden fleece only works for poo poo that wont knock you out of the park.

Royal guard is effective against EVERYTHING. It seriously is the best thing even though I cannot use it at all.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

Okay so some of that art is pretty embarrassing but I'll be damned if I didn't get excited looking at those combo vids, the game is actually starting to look like fun.
I'm also wondering why they are holding back on revealing Sparda's face. I mean Sparda was the very first thing you saw when you started a new game in Devil May Cry, his appearance was never a secret in the previous games.

ThePhenomenalBaby
May 3, 2011


I think the real question is what Sparda's demon form is supposed to be now. It will most likely not be some kind of Kamen Rider bug man.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


I guess by trying to create some mystique about him. Kind of like how we only ever see Sparda's devil form in the regular games (the human form costume being a nice bonus for whatever difficulty).

[e]: Yeah, true form, I'm just saying Devil form out of habit to distinguish from his monocle mode.
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Nov 2, 2012 around 01:11

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

You can't really say it's a "devil form" though, can you? I mean, he's a pure blooded demon. That's just what he looks like, plain and simple.

Guydoingthis
May 24, 2010


Pesky Splinter posted:

Oh gently caress this noise:


Look at the necklace in his hand. Look at the band on the leftmost part of his hand (from our perspective). It's just copy/pasted on top and floating there.

This image is even stupid for what they're going for. If you want him staring at his beating heart, rip his chest open. This picture loses like all of the potentially interesting aspects of the imagery in favor of WA.R and T.ME and a stupid tiny hole it looks like he poked into himself.

PoshAlligator
Jan 9, 2012

When SEO just isn't enough.


When I was younger and playing DMC3 for the first time, I'd play it in the front room a lot. My mother would sometimes also be present, and was actually intrigued by the game and the cutscenes. I showed her some choice ones in the cinema mode and we both agreed Dante was one cool mo fo.

Shortly afterwards I purchased the Devil May Cry anime in DVD and watched it with my parents. We all enjoyed it, particularly Dante's super chill badassery and love of pizza and strawberry sundaes (the latter of which I very much hope is canon).

This kind of thing could NEVER happen with DmC. I'd just be flat out embarrassed if anyone saw me playing it during a cutscene. Nobody would be intrigued by a cool Dante, just offput by some piece of poo poo jerk. They'd probably want to leave the room or bludgeon me to death with the game box.

Essentially what I'm saying is that DmC is actively trying to destroy family bonds.

It does seriously sadden me that Dante can't be a cool dude you'd show off to people anymore. Seriously, how are you meant to show people Donte and say he's cool. You'd just get referred to a therapist.

I just can't get over this. This has to be the worst series ruining I have ever had the misfortune to experience. At least Firefly was only cancelled, not poo poo all over.

Yeah Bro
Feb 4, 2012



Pesky Splinter posted:

Oh gently caress this noise:


The best/worst part of this image is how the graffiti and the signs in the mirror are not mirrored at all, the person who drew this didn't give a gently caress and neither does anyone else involved in this shite.

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008



That wound in the heart photo is somewhat reminiscent of Caravaggio's painting of Jesus and Thomas.

The general lack of blood and the neatness of the wound makes me thing that's what they were going for, especially because the earlier image is a riff on the pieta. Here, Dante's alone, isolated except for his reflection in the mirror, and, unlike the serene Jesus and incredulous Thomas, his face reflects very physical pain. Appropriate for the themes NT seems to be going for, except he looks absolutely ridiculous. So they're trying to satirize religion, making Dante a sort of emo Jesus, but it just looks very silly, rather than engage the contrast of images. And the irony is, that sort of cheesy silliness would be dead on for any other Devil May Cry game, excepting II.

Buck Turgidson
Feb 6, 2011


quote:

"I don't know how you define 'cool,'" said Antoniades. "If someone says they're cool they're automatically not cool. but I think it's about being original and honest. And I think when you try to look outside of video games you see what's being missed in video games as a whole. We looked up a lot of fashion and we went to a lot of gigs, we tried to understand where this concept of 'cool' come from."

I look at the original Dante and I see a character who is original and honest, he stands out. I can understand wanting to take the character in a new direction, especially after four games, but the new Dante doesn't really strike me as an 'original' character. I mean the game isn't out yet so I can't say for sure, but from what I've seen there don't seem to be many original facets to his character. The demon-slaying stuff has been done before, as has the rebellious attitude, the angry teen angle, etc. It's a little odd that he talks about making a cool character, and defines coolness in terms of originality and honesty, and then fails to fulfill one of those conditions.

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


Precambrian posted:

That wound in the heart photo is somewhat reminiscent of Caravaggio's painting of Jesus and Thomas.


It's not the only one that is. This thing right here:

Pesky Splinter posted:

*Him with some swinging demon's head


is obviously inspired by Caravaggio's David and the Head of Goliath:



In fact the composition's practically identical.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Man, at least with the bathroom one they went for "evokes." That one just looks like they traced over it.

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

THAT'S IT!
I'VE COME UP WITH A
NEW DISCOUNT!


ImpAtom posted:

Man, at least with the bathroom one they went for "evokes." That one just looks like they traced over it.

Pretty much. They also completely missed all the nuance of the original in favor of "angsty teen butchers monster".

Spoiler alert, Goliath's head in the original is a self-portrait, and David is "the little Caravaggio." That could be either Caravaggio's live-in assistant/lover who also happened to be named Caravaggio, IIRC, or it's an idealized version of his younger self. If it's the first one, it's about Caravaggio's agonizing over his love for this kid and how it feels like he's being killed by it, or if it's himself it's about how his rowdy youth led directly to his exile from Rome and, eventually, his very untimely death from illness in penury.

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008



Fungah! posted:

Pretty much. They also completely missed all the nuance of the original in favor of "angsty teen butchers monster".

Spoiler alert, Goliath's head in the original is a self-portrait, and David is "the little Caravaggio." That could be either Caravaggio's live-in assistant/lover who also happened to be named Caravaggio, IIRC, or it's an idealized version of his younger self. If it's the first one, it's about Caravaggio's agonizing over his love for this kid and how it feels like he's being killed by it, or if it's himself it's about how his rowdy youth led directly to his exile from Rome and, eventually, his very untimely death from illness in penury.

The eternal problem of referencing great art is that your work will look worse in comparison. Especially when you can't control the tone of your piece at all. Can't get past Pieta Dante holding his evidently weightless mom.

To Ninja Theory's credit, they haven't been beating the religious satire into our heads the way Slurms McKenzie has been hammering the anti-corporate lines. At least, so far. Maybe later in the game it'll get more blatant, but here, they've been downright subtle. And I think there's something there, maybe not for the game we've seen so far, but hey, benefit of the doubt.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!


Lipstick Apathy

I like the idea of Dante finding out about his special abilities after getting stabbed in the chest and finding out it's not killing him, but yeah that picture does not work. I understand what they're going for, but his reaction and the lovely bathroom and everything just screams poor melodrama.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Full interview where Antonides and the producer discuss Dante's look and DMC in general:

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/..._medium=twitter

Mostly covers old ground. but, a quick recap for everything that Capcom and NT wants for the game.

The angel/demon mechanic came about halfway through development, and they felt that "it was such a good mechanic [they] had to run with it".

[e]: And here's an account of a five hour preview:
http://www.nowgamer.com/ps3/ps3-pre...il_may_cry.html

They seem to be more willing to point out the issues they had, than the two hour preview - mostly about how easy the default mode is, and how you can just spam your way to SSS rank, while also noting what they liked about it.

Those keys we saw in a menu ages ago are used to unlock secret doors (secret missions). Oh, and Mundus is working under the pseudonym of "Kyle Ryder". The only notable thing I could find about the name, is that one appears in a British soap opera. How fitting.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Nov 2, 2012 around 12:38

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



Fungah! posted:

It's not the only one that is. This thing right here:


is obviously inspired by Caravaggio's David and the Head of Goliath:



In fact the composition's practically identical.

Good god.
They even appropriate good art.

The point here is, Dante is no David. He's some angel demon hybrid bastard while David was just your run of the mill kid/guy.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Ziggy Hero!
Ziggy! Save! Everyone!


Rigged Death Trap posted:

Good god.
They even appropriate good art.

The point here is, Dante is no David. He's some angel demon hybrid bastard while David was just your run of the mill kid/guy.

To go further with this Goliath is/was a living legend, feared by all, a giant in more than one way and David was just some random shlub that slew him. This is just the head of Generic Monster 365. This could work if it was the head of some great evil we knew, like say...Mundus, the Not-Pope, or maybe even Virgil's demon form from DMC 1 but that can't be because this is a reboot. So yeah, look at this badass killing this one random monster. So cool

ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at Nov 2, 2012 around 14:37

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Factory level vid:
Virility

Oddly, music only. With the most monotonous song ever.

SSNeoman
Jul 19, 2011




Goddamnit NT! A Nephilim is a creature created from the union between an angel and a human! Not an angel and a demon! They are also supposed to be giants (though what interpretation you use depends on how you use the word "giant")!

I mean really? Really? You couldn't just call him a hybrid? You had to use a spe-shul word that already has a loving meaning?! That's so lazy.

I am disappointed by that mirror picture. That reflection is just awful.

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Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005


Mmm, yes, if there's one thing the Devil May Cry series is known for, it's its scholarly and accurate representation of the various mythologies and folklores what it done took names from.

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