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Reading the comments people are posting while listening to the DMC3 ost, it makes the pain of the new game a little bit dulled.  Edit - Argh, new page. Okay, seems like Manual Lock On is getting a lot of attention. And of course the answers are not being satisfying, how do you remove an important gameplay system for "Narrative Reasons"? Makes little sense to me, not like they couldn't do soft lock as well. Temascos fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Nov 30, 2012 |
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Nov 30, 2012 16:16
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I almost feel sorry for the guy: The first few questions: quote:"Can you comment on the choice to avoid a Manual Lock-on system in favor the present Automatic soft-lock when: Manual lock offers finer camera control, guaranteed focus on a particular target, and ensuring the particular target is always in view, and allows feedback of how much Health an enemy has left; and; why is the option for such a lock on not an option, given that the infrastructure for it already exists (i.e.: Cycling through ranged targets)? Itsuno-san's intent for such a system is not a satisfactory answer. " Lock-on: NT Rep Dom: "What is the reason for removing the manual lock? We wanted to build a system that didn't rely on manual lock. That was a decision made very early on by Capcom and ourselves." Feedback: "We are of course looking at feedback, but I hope you can appreciate at this time I don't have anything concrete that I can talk about in terms of reacting to it. Its been very pleasing to see that a lot of people have liked the demo, but we recognise that people have opinions of how they think it could be even better." Smoothness: "The game runs very smoothly and I'm pleased to see that a lot of people think the combat feels fluid. We know how important that is to combat games. If you don't enjoy it, then that's a shame, but we haven't ruined the action." Taunts: "Why no taunts: We just didn't think they fitted with this DmC. It was a creative decision." Quite a few people then ask: quote:I don't get how taunts don't fit? It seems like Dante's screaming curses at every enemy he beats from the trailers but taunts don't fit? It doesn't make much sense to me. Only to have cretins spout the  "It doesn't fit in with the narrative!1!" line.Finally! They say it  :"DmC is a reboot." Locked into certain moves: "Why is Dante locked into moves: He's not for the most part, but when he is the attacks are typically more powerful. Its a risk reward thing. If you start a move that you're locked into you better know its going to land" DT: "Yes, you can upgrade the Devil Trigger" Playtime: "How many hours? It depends on your skills. I'd say 12-15hours for the first run through - but you won't be able to do everything in one run " Dude almost ignores this completely: quote:"We wanted to build a system that didn't rely on manual lock" But after four or five times of being asked it he does respond: "On the lock-on, I fully understand that people miss it, but it isn't something that is in the game. We've worked hard to make an auto lock-on system that works really well, and I'm confident that with time it is something that you'll adapt to. But I reiterate, I hear you." To paraphrase what he's saying, "It's not our problem you can't get used to our sloppy lock on - it's your problem for not adapting to it". That dude isn't gonna take that feeble poo poo excuse though: quote:"but it isn't something that is in the game" He responds: "It was just a decision we took. I understand that isn't the answer you're looking for but I'm afraid I can't do any better for you. " Balancing: "Balancing is of course crucial. We've made a system that allows you to switch between weapons really quickly. The idea is to give you a lot of freedom." Leaderboards: "Yes there will be leaderboards, but no other multiplayer functionality." Re:DT "I might have already mentioned it, but you can upgrade your DT to make it last longer." Dante's personality: "When the game starts Dante has nothing to live for, no family, nothing. He has nothing to care for. When he finds Vergil, things change." Re:Feedback: "We're looking at feedback from the demo, but there is nothing concrete I can say right now." Enemies being easy: "What you saw in the demo is really just a taste of the lower tier demons. They get a lot harder. There are a lot more enemies to see, the demo really just has a few. The enemies also switch up tactics on the harder difficulties. " On people not liking the reboot  :"Each and every person in this studio has poured their heart and soul into this game - our intention has always been to create something that new and existing fans enjoy. If we haven't nailed it for you, then I'm sorry." On using UR3 engine: "We chose Unreal because we have a lot of experience with it, we felt it could achieve what we wanted (with quite a lot of modification) and it allowed us to get started quickly with actually making the game " On the Union Flag: "To set the record straight on the Union Flag. This has nothing to do with us being a UK studio. It is part of Dante's punk/rebellion inspired look. Union Flags were a key image of the punk movement." Can you get SoS mode from the start?: "You have to unlock SoS mode. This unlocks after one playthrough." Re:Demo: "The demo is built at a time when work is still continuing on the main game, yes." More weapons: "We haven't shown all of the weapons yet, so far we have shown Rebellion, 2 angel weapons and 2 demon weapons. Plus 2 firearms" (Presumably the ones they haven't shown are the other gun and Vergil's weapons then.  )On the GDD (Game Design Document): "A GDD a such is really only a starting point. We have so much information and planning on DmC its unreal. We also have over 1000 pieces of concept art, probably closer to 2000." Q&A: "We have put a lot of QA into game, but no game is perfect. We've made best efforts to minimise collision issues and I'm confident these issues are few and far between." On Dante's humanity: quote:If dante is now half angel half demon why in marketing do you still talk about dante human side? "Because he takes a human form. " He then ignores: quote:But he is literally not human at all On Art: "Yes, I think you'll see the art in a number of ways. There is actually a lot to be unlocked in the game. But it would be great to have it one book or even at an exhibition." Gregman (the streamer from the other night) "I think the DT in this game ties in well with the narrative and with the new emphasis on aerial combat, so it actually serves things nicely, even if it's different from what we've seen in the past. " gently caress you dude. gently caress you. --- So yeah, you have a few things from the horse's mouth.
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Nov 30, 2012 17:23
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The media blitz we saw a few weeks ago from the first five levels of the game is from an NDA gated build that many gaming media organizations received, they actually got 10 levels but are only allowed to talk about the first five for now. So we can expect in the coming weeks another campaign like that. It's kind of funny, we're going to see the entirely of the first half of the game before it even ships (assuming that there are around 20 missions, which is a logical assumption given the series' history.)
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Nov 30, 2012 17:47
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The exchange on Dante's "humanity" was pretty funny. The complete lack of substantial justification on removing hard lock-on is no surprise though. Honestly, the choice between hard or soft-lock feels more like "stick-shift or automatic" to me, especially in a game where the combat is all about giving you options.
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Nov 30, 2012 17:49
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Taunt Button? gently caress You!  This game was never going to get a fair chance with such drastic changes, but Ninja Theory really don't do themselves any favours at all with their attitude to the whole thing. Everything is either a 'narrative choice' or 'sorry you don't like it, tough poo poo whiners'.
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Nov 30, 2012 18:08
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Well, it's a no-win situation. I really suspect Ninja Theory went into this with someone at Capcom (possibly even someone no longer there like Keiji Inafune) basically going "We want you to reboot this franchise." So they went in expecting to do a straightforward reboot. I fully expect that they went in expecting to make a good game, but probably were told that holding to DMC standards was less important than making something more instantly profitable and easily replicatable. I also really don't doubt that people at NT liked DMC, but they probably liked it in the "pick up and play for a bit, don't get good rankings" sort of way. So they did that and got absolutely slammed when they tried to reveal it. Someone at Capcom, Ninja Theory, or both just absolutely misunderstood. The people who really really care about DMC either like the goofy-rear end Japanese anime action or they like the hardcore in-depth gameplay. So now they're stuck with a lot of unhappy fans and not a lot of positive response outside of the fans. They would have done infinitely better with an original IP. Just flat-out infinitely better. All the DMC IP is at this point is an albatross around their neck. They're clearly reusing what they learned from Heavenly Sword because it's really their only grounding point, and as far as a Heavenly Sword 2.0, DmC at least seems better. The IP however sets very different and higher expectations.
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Nov 30, 2012 18:21
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I just don't see many fans of original DMC picking this up, nor do I see people who never liked DMC before deciding to just jump in now. I really do not understand who this game is being marketed towards. Whenever they're asked why they did something the answer is always something like "it's just a decision we made" -- complete ignoring the "why" part. But then, I wouldn't be surprised if DmC simply is just the result of random, arbitrary decisions made for no apparent reason.
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Nov 30, 2012 18:27
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PoshAlligator posted:Whenever they're asked why they did something the answer is always something like "it's just a decision we made" -- complete ignoring the "why" part. But then, I wouldn't be surprised if DmC simply is just the result of random, arbitrary decisions made for no apparent reason. I sure as hell don't want to be in their place. Imp's right about how NT was way out of their depth when they took the job under a Capcom that's struggling to maintain both image and profits, and no PR personnel is going to say "this decision was made because we weren't on the level about public expectation of this game and oh god it's too loving late we're boned".
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Nov 30, 2012 18:36
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For a UK studio they completely misconstrued the whole Punk aesthetic.
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Nov 30, 2012 19:20
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Why is Dante from 12 years ago not cool anymore, but new Dante from 1977 is cool?
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Nov 30, 2012 19:23
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ImpAtom posted:Someone at Capcom, Ninja Theory, or both just absolutely misunderstood. The people who really really care about DMC either like the goofy-rear end Japanese anime action or they like the hardcore in-depth gameplay. So now they're stuck with a lot of unhappy fans and not a lot of positive response outside of the fans. They would have done infinitely better with an original IP. Just flat-out infinitely better. All the DMC IP is at this point is an albatross around their neck. It's been said from the begining that it would have been better recived as an IP. It definitely wouldn't have gotten as much hate and negativity. Sure, it probably wouldn't have got many sales either, but that's the nature of things. At the very least, it wouldn't be compared to the other DMC games and their ilk, and maybe even stand on its own merits. I may have posted this before, but I'd advise anyone who hasn't already to check out this dude's analysis of the demo (also the same dude who found the flying Dante glitch), which is pretty good summation of the problems and issues people have with things. He's wrong in a few parts like saying that the cutscenes are unskippable (well, the "long cutscenes"), but I recommend watching it.
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Nov 30, 2012 19:37
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You know, reading this thread...the parallels between this game and Lords of Shadow is pretty eerie.
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Nov 30, 2012 20:57
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A bit, except that Lords of Shadow is visually gorgeous along with showcasing decent (if predictable after a while) gameplay. It didn't openly poo poo on too many conventions because the CV series has been both uneven and divergent between generations. DMC is, like, you know what you're generally getting. Fast-paced, tough, rewarding gameplay with a campy story and art that usually pops. It also hasn't changed a great deal over time. There's been additions but nothing like the big change in style like the transition between the NES CVs and the SoTN/later Metroidvanias.
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Nov 30, 2012 21:03
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TyroneGoldstein posted:You know, reading this thread...the parallels between this game and Lords of Shadow is pretty eerie. How so? Previous 3D Castlevanias received lukewarm receptions at best and even huge fans of the series like myself knew it was starving to death on the DS, no matter how much we liked the games. Except for the second game, Devil May Cry has always been a resounding critical success, and was a much bigger commercial success than Castlevania had ever been. The only thing these situations have in common are that they're both series from floundering Japanese developers that have been outsourced to foreign studios.
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Nov 30, 2012 21:04
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I'd be more convinced of NT's goal of giving Dante a "punk" aesthetic if he'd actually stand out in most environments. If a Union Jack patch is the best they can do, chalk up another thing about this that doesn't impress me. Did nobody ask about the broken scoring system, and why NT chose damage dealt over move variety? wildzero fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 30, 2012 |
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Nov 30, 2012 21:32
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Bonaventure posted:Except for the second game, Devil May Cry has always been a resounding critical success, and was a much bigger commercial success than Castlevania had ever been. Even DMC2 sold quite well, surprisingly enough. Critically it was very mixed, with lots of negative reviews. I mean the thing plays like rear end, and you could write whole essays on why it's a bad game, but it sold. 
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Nov 30, 2012 21:40
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Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I bought DMC2 basically sight unseen after DMC1. v v Man did I regret that. I seriously finished everything in the game hoping for it to miraculously get good. Unlocking Trish was the closest to a good part. Edit: I also bought DMC1 after the Code Veronica X demo, and I'm pretty sure I played DMC1's demo more than CVX as a whole. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Nov 30, 2012 |
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Nov 30, 2012 22:16
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Pesky Splinter posted:Even DMC2 sold quite well, surprisingly enough. Critically it was very mixed, with lots of negative reviews. I mean the thing plays like rear end, and you could write whole essays on why it's a bad game, but it sold. It went off the good press and critical appeal of DMC1, its also why DMC3 sold the least out of all of them, because people didn't wanna take another chance on the series after 2. You could also write essays on how amazing Capcom is at completely killing their own franchises with rushed and sub-par sequels, Battle Network, Megaman X and Starforce to name a few. Or their complete lack of respect for the consumer with the SFXTekken and Marvel/Ultimate Marvel fiasco. The marvel one was especially hosed up since they blamed they earthquake on being forced to make Ultimate a stand alone game. Basically, gently caress Capcom. Alteisen fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Nov 30, 2012 |
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Nov 30, 2012 22:22
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I miss the old Dante Capcom could have probably just churned out an actual Devil May Cry 5 with Nero and Dante rather than take this risk for 'COD numbers'. I mean DMC4 was the best selling of the series so far and although there was backtracking and multiple fights with the same bosses I had a lot of fun with it. I just wish that they had either done 2 campaigns like Devil May Cry 2 or had an even number of levels for each character (10 each maybe). I'm still interested in DmC this just out of curiosity, no way am I buying it but I just can't wait to hear about how this 'amazing grown up story' plays out 
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Nov 30, 2012 22:30
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Alteisen posted:It went off the good press and critical appeal of DMC1, its also why DMC3 sold the least out of all of them, because people didn't wanna take another chance on the series after 2. Hell, looking back at it, it's amazing that there even was a DMC3. A sequel which learnt and improved upon the mistakes from the previous one is even rarer. Don't forget Capcom's loving disgraceful on-disc DLC practices. To the point that they now have to annouce that there isn't any on-disc DLC in their products. Their handling of DMC4 is kinda...well, we all know the complaints - specifically, the rehash of the previous levels, but in the reverse order. Though with that I'm not sure if that can be put down to just how the game was plotted, or time constraints, or them just not thinking it through. It's enjoyable, and I enjoyed it, and the amazingly deep and complex battle system (insta-style change is the best thing  ), but at the same time, it could have been better.It certainly didn't need a reboot. A refocus perhaps, but not a reboot. Part of hopes this is something like New Cok- Oh, gently caress it, I'll quote instead:  "We'll market it as the new DMC. Then, when everyone hates it, we'll bring back Classic DMC, and make billions!" *BWHAHAHAHAHA!*charismaslover posted:I'm still interested in DmC this just out of curiosity, no way am I buying it but I just can't wait to hear about how this 'amazing grown up story' plays out A glorious, glorious trainwreck. A testement to bad ideas, and sloppy writing.
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Nov 30, 2012 22:47
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I really want to try and master the combat in tge old games. Would i be better off doing this in 3 or 4? And is there a video or site that can teach me?
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Nov 30, 2012 22:49
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Capcom is another Sega to me at this point, a company that's lost all focus and seemingly has no loving idea what to do, they simply want to maximize profits without any clue on exactly how to do that. Sometimes handing off a franchise to a studio in the west can be good, look at Dead Rising, DR2 was fantastic, other times you wonder if Capcom has any team doing research on these companies, NT is a terrible company and their one surprise hit could be easily attributed to the drought of titles on the PS3 at the time, and loving Spark Interactive making Lost Planet 3? Why not resurrect Acclaim and give them Street Fighter while you're at it.
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Nov 30, 2012 22:51
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Uncle Wemus posted:I really want to try and master the combat in tge old games. Would i be better off doing this in 3 or 4? And is there a video or site that can teach me? Generally I think 3 is better to start with. Learning about each of the styles individually gives you a better grasp on what they do when Dante can insta-change, plus there are several mechanical differences in DMC4 which stand out more if you played DMC3.
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Nov 30, 2012 22:51
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ImpAtom posted:Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I bought DMC2 basically sight unseen after DMC1. v Yeah, I saw a bunch of bad reviews but I was like "the first one was so good, there's no way those reviews are right. They couldn't have fallen off that far." Ha, ha, ha.
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Nov 30, 2012 22:52
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IIRC, didn't Capcom not tell Kamiya or his team that another team was working on a DMC2 until it was being localised? Poor dude can't catch a break when it comes to sequels - outside of Viewtiful Joe (and with Bayonetta 2 looking to buck the trend).
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Nov 30, 2012 23:01
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Pesky Splinter posted:IIRC, didn't Capcom not tell Kamiya or his team that another team was working on a DMC2 until it was being localised? Poor dude can't catch a break when it comes to sequels - outside of Viewtiful Joe (and with Bayonetta 2 looking to buck the trend). I never beat Joe 2 but wasnt it supposed to be a trilogy? My heart cant take waiting for an ending that will never come.
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Nov 30, 2012 23:07
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Uncle Wemus posted:I never beat Joe 2 but wasnt it supposed to be a trilogy? My heart cant take waiting for an ending that will never come. There is a DS game, written by Kamiya, which is about as good as you're gonna get for a third part. I haven't played it, so I've no idea if it's any good or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewtiful_Joe:_Double_Trouble! Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Nov 30, 2012 |
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Nov 30, 2012 23:09
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I remain convinced that Capcom actually meant to hire Team Ninja, but got confused and by the time they found out development was already too far along.
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Nov 30, 2012 23:21
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I'm not really sure that would actually be any better. They really just need to
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Nov 30, 2012 23:29
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Present for you guys, an excerpt of Kamiya's afterword from the first DMC novel - the one which helped inspire Vergil as he is in DMC3:quote:An interesting work is packed full with the mischievous playfulness of the creator. I don't mean inside jokes. It's more of the creator's energy being made tangible. Things like, "It's boring to take this seriously, so let's have some fun with this scene," or, "Consistency? Let's forget about that and make it powerful and exciting!". 
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Nov 30, 2012 23:38
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Bonaventure posted:How so? Previous 3D Castlevanias received lukewarm receptions at best and even huge fans of the series like myself knew it was starving to death on the DS, no matter how much we liked the games. Except for the second game, Devil May Cry has always been a resounding critical success, and was a much bigger commercial success than Castlevania had ever been. The only thing these situations have in common are that they're both series from floundering Japanese developers that have been outsourced to foreign studios. The 3D Castlevanias on the PS2 were better than people gave them credit for. Great soundtracks, solid gameplay that at least tried to capture the essence of CV. Then you have Lords of Shadow, which is a good game in its own right and thematically beautiful in the eye candy department...but..it wasn't really a Castlevania game. One never really got that certain feeling of the essence of CV. I said what I said because that analysis put up a page or so back, the even handed one, basically said the same thing about DmC. While its a good beat em up in its own right, it doesn't really capture that certain something that is Devil May Cry. Hope that helps. An opposite example of a game that did capture the essence in another franchise would be say, Metroid Prime.
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Dec 1, 2012 00:27
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"Solid gameplay" is pretty generous for the PS2 Castlemania games. I would give them 'acceptable gameplay' at best. They were clunky and sluggish. You are right in that they captured the theme at least. I tried to get into Lords of Shadow but it doesn't even have very good mechanics to make up for the fact that it's just another action game parading in another IP's mask.
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Dec 1, 2012 01:13
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notZaar posted:"Solid gameplay" is pretty generous for the PS2 Castlemania games. I would give them 'acceptable gameplay' at best. They were clunky and sluggish. You are right in that they captured the theme at least. I tried to get into Lords of Shadow but it doesn't even have very good mechanics to make up for the fact that it's just another action game parading in another IP's mask. I think Lords of Shadow is better than a lot of people give it credit for. It's by no means amazing, but the light/dark magic mechanic is fun and there is a large amount of crazy moves to mess around with. There just isn't much reason to explore these things, as there are pretty much 2 enemy types and you don't need to use all the tools available to you to progress in the game. Also it has crazy performance problems on some levels. I'd still prefer to play it over something like God of War, I'm hoping that DmC will at least be around that same "worlds tallest midget" quality. Edit: If you go into it expecting a Castlevania game you will definitely be disappointed though. As soon as I saw what it was I separated it in my mind from the main series, I feel the same way about DmC vs Devil May Cry.
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Dec 1, 2012 03:15
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Pesky Splinter posted:There is a DS game, written by Kamiya, which is about as good as you're gonna get for a third part. I haven't played it, so I've no idea if it's any good or not. I played it, it's a decent Joe game at least, even if the story is lovely. I'd say it's worth it, especially since you can get it for less than $20.
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Dec 1, 2012 07:02
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Mr. Fun posted:Why is Dante from 12 years ago not cool anymore, but new Dante from 1977 is cool? Dante from 12 years ago is cool in the way cheesy overblown action stars from the '80s were. 'It would look silly' in real life is a stupid argument given Dante IS an ultra manly superhero who fucks everything up without breaking a sweat.
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Dec 1, 2012 07:45
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Just played some DMC3 to see what I felt was missing from the new game's demo and oh boy, the difference was massive. The combat felt satisfying, that's the main thing for me. obviously the move list is larger but even with Trickster and Royal Guard (Both of which are my weakest styles to play), the basic movelist makes much more sense. Although, I did seem to struggle a bit more with the camera controls than I remembered, getting used to current generation standards on control I guess. But seriously, all Capcom need to do is DMC1s atmosphere and Devil Trigger depth, DMC3's bosses and combat, DMC4's campaign variety (But no repeat locations unless backtracking is short...and no dice please). By cutting off and alienating the fanbase at large, and new customers not sure whever to buy the new game or not means that sales that were once assured are no longer the case.
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Dec 1, 2012 14:02
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What I would love from Capcom is a DMC prequel starring Sparda. It's the perfect way for them to start fresh while easily maintaining everything people loved about the series. It seems like a no-brainer to me but who knows what their execs are thinking. I guess they assume Japanese games can no longer sell on the international market. It might even be true for all I know.
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Dec 1, 2012 14:10
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This insistence that Dante is a human/human, even though he's not, makes me think that they might have a  SHOCKING PLOT TWIST prepared: Eva is actually a human whom the angels used for getting to Sparda - it makes angels look manipulative and not nice, and makes naming the twins Nephilims "clever". Alternatively, there are no angels, only demons and more demons!
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Dec 1, 2012 15:00
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^^^ [e]: If that were true I'd bust a loving gut. They played up the angel thing really early on, so it does make me wonder if they will do anything with it, outside of it just making Dante and Vergil special Mary Sues. I really want a Bayonetta and DMC crossover now, kicking angel and demon asses. drat. Temascos posted:Although, I did seem to struggle a bit more with the camera controls than I remembered, getting used to current generation standards on control I guess. The camera's always been something of a slight issue in DMC. DMC1's fixed camera helped with the atmosphere, but it wasn't always conducive to combat - especially fighting Griffin. 2 and 3 were a bit better in that area, and 4 was on the right track of being able to rotate the camera in some areas. notZaar posted:DMC prequel starring Sparda. That would be pretty awesome. And the best thing about that is, there's so much potential for settings, visuals and anything really. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 15:04
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A game starring Sparda would be pretty cool- I just want an excuse to play as a character who wears a monocle.
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Dec 1, 2012 15:10
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