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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


ImpAtom posted:

Itagaki. Prior to leaving Capcom, Itagaki was very vocal about how Japanese developers were failing and believed that the future of gaming was western developers and Japanese producers. He's the one who encouraged this.

God, but why did they have to pick loving Ninja Theory of all people. Those guys are awful.

Their sole claim to fame has been their precious mocap technology. Their actual games have been tepid at best.

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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Schubalts posted:

I find it really hard to believe that DmC Dante has somehow made "lots of people" suddenly interested in the franchise.

Ninja Theory is on its last legs (as they deserve to be, far as I'm concerned) and Capcom doesn't have many franchises left to whore out, so it shouldn't be too surprising that there's a PR hurricane around this title.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


ThePhenomenalBaby posted:

People's livelihood or lives shouldn't be destroyed over this game. I'm sure you'd all agree that's a childish attitude to have.

I don't think this game will top Bayonetta or DMC 3 or Ninja Gaiden Black but it'll probably be okay in it's own right. And that's fine.

If and when Ninja Theory sinks, it won't be because of this game. It'll be because their development history consists of basic and clumsily executed titles that banked on their mocap engine and nothing else. They're all sizzle and no steak, which leads to me to think they only got ahold of this IP in the first place because Capcom tossed it at them before realizing what a bomb Enslaved was.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

I actually remember people being fairly positive about Enslaved when it was first hitting, what was so terrible about it?

A game that comes as close to playing itself as you can get without being a point-and-click (the battle engine is basically Beyond Good & Evil's with a few extra gimmicks and the platforming literally doesn't allow you to fall most of the time), the plot starts off fairly unremarkable, gets aggravating with the addition of Pigsy, and goes completely loving sideways in the final act, and the much-vaunted overgrown city environments give way to a lot of brown-gray junkyards sooner than you'd like. It was less game, more tech demo. Also I heard there was a serious delay between button press and reaction for a lot of people, but don't recall experiencing it myself.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Pesky Splinter posted:

NEWS!

An interview from PSM3 with Tameem Antoniades

Now, I don't want to sound overly incendiary or insulting, but these people are the dumbest motherfuckers that ever hosed their own mothers

Has there been a single piece of PR released that hasn't consisted Ninja Theory doing a little happy dance about how they're going to revolutionize the storytelling of Devil May loving Cry?

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Monkey Fracas posted:

Man, I thought Team Ninja's forte was art direction and storytelling- political commentary does not belong in a DMC game at all, let alone commentary this goddamn hamfisted. I will only be satisfied if they acknowledge how stupid this is by giving Dante a cestus-type weapon that is literally two big hams. FIGHT THE POWER

That being said, I too could care less about the story as long as the gameplay's solid.

Team Ninja do bank on their "storytelling" abilities, but they're pretty dogshit at that, too. Heavenly Sword's script was boilerplate and Enslaved was a pointless concept that went completely loopy in the final act. It's part of why all this focus on DMC's plot just has people bracing for the inevitable trainwreck.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


There is just no way the game can be even a tenth as entertaining as its development cycle at this point.

It's like how the rage festival over ME3's ending almost made up for the disappointment of the ending itself.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Schubalts posted:

Well, Lady does make it pretty far up the tower in DMC3 and she's human. I don't remember if you see her pull off the same kind of super crazy that Dante does, though. I never played it and it's been a long time since I saw AccountingNightmare's LP.

Lady juggle-reloads pistols and has an honest-to-God rocket jump as a basic combat tactic. Her cutscenes in DMC3 were by far the game's best.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


notZaar posted:

Wow it looks like Capcom pulled NT out of the fryer with this deal, so that's just one more reason to hope it doesn't bomb (for all involved.)

I won't really be shedding too many tears if Ninja Theory sinks. They're CG artists with delusions of grandeur, not game developers, and it's shown in all their work so far.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


This needs to come out already so I can watch it bomb and then dance a lively two-step on Ninja Theory's grave

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


It's been said before, but "aesthetic before gameplay" is sort of NT's method. It has never worked out for them, especially after the shine from their mocap nonsense wore off.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence



"I hope you guys have a fuckload of pizza ordered because TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL"

DMC/Bayonetta's innovative approach to higher difficulty settings was always one of their best points, to me.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


DMC4 Dante was the hardest boss fight in the game and, when defeated, responds by playfully whacking you on the back of the head and leaping out of the arena in a single bound.

Devils never cry and Dante never gives a gently caress.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


notZaar posted:

DMC3 Dante pointlessly antagonizes Lady in every encounter (even if she isn't the nicest person to him to begin with) and is generally really abrasive. It's nice that by the end of the game he actually has something to care about and can show some empathy while still kicking rear end.

He caught her after she fell from the top of a very tall building, and she replied by shooting him in the head. Um, rude.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


SurrealityCheck posted:

Man I really do feel so sorry for ninja theory right now. I just hope the game sells well and they can make a mechanically more complex sequel now they've done the hard part of getting together the basic framework etc.

I unabashedly hope they go out of business. Maybe then the art designers can get hired on by other developers, where they might actually do some good, while sneering douchebags like Tameem take up other professions, like alligator wrestling.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Luisfe posted:

Didn't Okami have something like that?

Nah, but it's pretty much exactly what happened for Nero's DT attacks.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


SurrealityCheck posted:

His comments on cutscenes remind me of how irritating the cut scenes in Bayonetta could be

There's the door, there's your rear end, don't let one hit the other on your way out

Ok, but no, you're right about the early cutscenes that were just establishing what you could laughably call the game's plot. The film-reel scenes got irritating fast, as well. At least they were all completely extraneous to the game proper.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


notZaar posted:

I can't even really imagine what the opposite of a weeaboo would be. A guy with wallscrolls of Spongebob and Disney?

No, that would be your garden-variety westaboo. The true opposite would be a serious, sober young professional who watches the Wire (but does not brag about it) and enjoys the occasional brisk walk, or simple, honest outdoor labor.

Oxxidation fucked around with this message at Dec 23, 2012 around 15:54

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


NikkolasKing posted:

Then prove me wrong.

Start of DmC Dante: Drunken, apathetic jackass Pretty sure he expressed no great love for humans, even if he hated demons.

End of DmC Dante: Killed the monster mind controlling humanity through drinks, killed the monster mind controlling humanity through television, killed the Demon Lord to free humanity from demonic tyranny, Refused his brother's offer to rule humanity in his place and would have killed said brother to protect the humans.

It's really blatant stuff and if you missed it, that's not my problem. The difference between Dante at the start of the game and him at the end of the game is not even remotely subtle. Hell, the difference between Dante pre-getting his memories back and post-getting his memories back is pretty noticeable.

So he does a bunch of generic, joyless good-guy stuff because he spends most of the game being told "go ye, and stab this dude" by his badly-dressed older brother, and then stabs the brother for vague "you do a bad thing" Reasons. Someone throw him a loving parade.

The older Dante was given only the vaguest of instructions for cutting loose in his games, if any, and then treated everything that followed like a vacation from all his lounging around and pizza-chomping. His entire half of the plot in DMC4 has him destroying ultimate evils with the same air you'd expect one to have when ordering a margarita. Sure, the world's being saved, but that's sort of a side-effect of Dante (and, by extension, the player) having a good time. New Dante just trudges from one pre-defined objective to the next, and does a lot of tedious sneering while he does it (seriously, the nasty, rubbery facial expressions in that game do not endear the characters to anyone with sense).

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


BottledBodhisvata posted:

To be fair, I watch a lot of horror films and grindhouse gorefests, so it's made me a bit jaded, but I literally beat mother and baby within an inch of their lives with a loving sword like five minutes before hand. It's only a dramatic moment in the sense that it demonstrates that Virgil just gives No Fucks.

Which makes it even worse. "Oh, it's okay because they were a boss fight!" It's incredibly juvenile, in all the wrong ways.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


BottledBodhisvata posted:

I guess. The game itself is fairly juvenile, but all Devil May Cry games are juvenile, that's sort of the point. The more seriously the games take themselves, the worse they get--see Devil May Cry 2, 4.


The previous games were juvenile in good ways - they were basically adolescent imagination games were you played a sword-swinging pistol-shooting kung-fu badass who treated the Apocalypse like the recess bell just rang. On the other hand, presenting a character as fearful and helpless, regardless of prior context, giving it a loving sniper-rifle abortion, and then mostly shrugging it off because eh, it was a Video Game Bad Guy is in such poor taste that I can't even think of a decent comparison, even if I plumbed Rockstar's worst depths (though that one mission from GTAV is at least a close second). If any kid had that fantasy, it would be the obese unshaven one who smells vaguely of old laundry and stares always, unblinkingly, at girls' hair.

The combat is tepid, the platforming loving drags (if you liked DmC's environment navigation then maybe try Alice Madness Returns, they're cut from the same mold), and it rams a nauseating stream of no-effort positive reinforcement down your throat when it's not embarrassing itself with its faux-punk attempts to be cool. Those are all expected from middling-to-bad games. That one scene, though, sticks out in peoples' minds because it's infantile and cruel even by video game standards, and you get the impression that the developers had no idea it would come off that way.

Oxxidation fucked around with this message at Jan 21, 2014 around 17:36

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


S-Alpha posted:

You're gonnna have to explain to me how DMC4, the one with the best and deepest combat system in the series, is on the same level with 2 and how in the hell it's worse than DmC, the one with the shallowest.

Because it took itself too seriously, I guess.

You know, with its one character who can perform a never-ending air-guitar taunt and has a literal motorcycle engine strapped to his sword, despite being the game's straight man.

Oxxidation fucked around with this message at Jan 21, 2014 around 17:42

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Pesky Splinter posted:

I'm gonna disagree on that one. The Vergil fight felt like that really wanted to copy off DMC3, but didn't have any of the know-how to make it legitimately challenging. Like, in DMC3 Vegil is vulnerable to all your attacks, though he will attempt to break them off if you carry on for too long, he's constantly on the chase, or he's following up attacks with summoned sword varients.

In DmC, they basically went "NO gently caress YOU! NOT ATTACKING TIL WE SAY SO!" and made him block everything, until after he executed a move. Limited the summon swords to just one varient, had the bright idea of giving him bright blue projectile attacks, on a bright blue background, and then put cutscenes in after taking every 1/5th of his lifebar, so you didn't obliterate him within 30 seconds.

Yeah, this. One post made a pretty good argument that DMC3's Vergil was basically the Terminator during his every boss encounter, constantly closing distance, pushing you back, and ripping you apart whenever he saw an opening. DmC's Vergil is a cowardly keep-away type, which is a snore to fight.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


ImpAtom posted:

It massively underperformed Capcom's expectations and didn't sell well anywhere.

Didn't they make a press release that amounted to "we really shouldn't have hired Ninja Theory"?

Obviously it was dressed up in PR speak, but ouch.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

Ninja Gaiden Black, at least, isn't "cheap"; you always have all the tools you need to survive. I guess it's very frustrating, but that's just because it's a more challenging game than most other games in the genre.

Also like 75% of the bosses have so many invincibility frames that they might as well be made of steel for the most of the battle, let's not forget that. Black is fun, but it does not play fair.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Pesky Splinter posted:

I wouldn't trust reviews, especially from Famitsu.

I've said it mostly in the Bayo thread

You haven't really said anything, you just PM'd people about it. Are you under embargo or something?

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


If Capcom made DmC El Taco Grande Edition a real thing I would buy a copy for everyone I ever knew

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Quality story telling right here. Ninja Theory you did it again!

Did NT even make these cuts or was it all Capcom?

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Fair Bear Maiden posted:

NT worked on the remaster directly. No way to tell whose idea it was, though.

This makes so many things about the remaster even funnier. They sprinted away from the old games' aesthetic, their reboot bombed, and now they're pushing Dante 1.0 front and center in all their promo materials. Have you no principles, Ser Antoniades

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


DmC was the rare game that I never even curiosity-bought for $10 or whatever because it was so aggressively ugly and unpleasant with or without the gameplay shortcomings. The remaster probably isn't going to do much to fix that.

Though I doubt I'll grab the DMC4 remaster either, think I bled that one dry on my first go-round.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Also their mo-capped faces seriously nauseate me, it's like the characters' flesh is some separate organism that latched onto their bare, smooth skulls.

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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

a negative influence


Big Scary Owl posted:

I don't know much of the lore about the DMC games, so I was wondering how do humans manage to survive in the DMC world?

Unsuccessfully.

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