knox posted:

Breezing through "The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government" by David Talbot and it's just remarkable how much damage this one man did not just to the United States and all the positives things FDR did, but to the entire world, through the CIA. His own wife details her fantasy of murdering him, imagining herself as a rooster with knives on her talons "cutting him to ribbons," and just how much she hates him. These are the men who are drawn to the darkest natures of power, and usually the most effective at it; despised by their own wife & children, yet controlling the strings of domestic/geopolitics with our societal fate in their hand.

I was watching Adam Curtis' new series Can't Get You Out of My Head, and even in places where the CIA had no influence like in China, Mao/his wife/and others labeled political rivals as agents of the CIA to destroy them. The paranoia from within men like Dulles projected onto the world carries on to this day. The battle of "capitalism good vs communist evil" and the decades of indoctrination rage on.

Dulles would betray anyone if it meant more control or power; like Talbot brings up again and again, it is astonishing how little Dulles did to alert FDR to the ongoing Holocaust/assist friends asking him for help to get them out of Europe. He spent more time rescuing ex-Nazis than he did helping longtime Jewish family friends from being murdered.

Growing up seeing stories about Nazis escaping to fascist friendly South American countries, I would think "how does that happen" or who assisted them in escaping justice, and after reading this book I have my answer in Allen Dulles.

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Was listening to Nixonland and it had the odd claim regarding the defeat of the French in 1954 by the Vietminh, that "It was the first military loss for a European colonial power in three hundred years."

That seemed like a poorly researched claim, whether he meant loss in a stand up battle there were plenty of those like Siege of Khartoum or Isandlwana, and if he meant a whole war there was the First Italo-Ethiopian War.

Is Rick Perlstein a credible author? So far the book is pretty good but if he has a dicey reputation research wise not gonna spend the time.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i mean its mostly focused on nixon/etc and Vietnam freeing itself was probably one of the most successful anti colonial revolutions. as a specific worded claim its wrong but alot of European powers were able to keep the boot on other countries throats for a while after or just decided to leave.

Mauser posted:

Anyone have a comprehensive book on the great depression in the US? I went back through the thread a bit trying to word search, but didn't find anything.

Mauser posted:

Anyone have a comprehensive book on the great depression in the US? I went back through the thread a bit trying to word search, but didn't find anything.

Mantis42 posted:

BioTech posted:

Can someone recommend me a book about the crusades?
Preferably something comprehensive, looking at all of them in reasonable depth.
I guess similar to A World Undone for WW1 or Carthage Must Be Destroyed regarding Carthage/the Punic Wars

dokmo posted:

I believe Steven Runciman's three volume History of the Crusades will give you most of what you're looking for. What's missing from that (and most western histories about the crusades) is most of the Islamic perspective.

Fighting Trousers posted:

The first half of David Kennedy's Freedom From Fear, which cover the Great Depression and WWII, might be a good starting place. Of course, it's a 20+ year old book at this point, and I'm not up on the latest 1930s scholarship.

Mantis42 posted:

glynnenstein posted:

For the Islamic perspective The Crusades Through Arab Eyes was great 20 years ago. I'm not sure if something better has come along since.

dokmo posted:

I believe Steven Runciman's three volume History of the Crusades will give you most of what you're looking for. What's missing from that (and most western histories about the crusades) is most of the Islamic perspective.

Mantis42 posted:

Rick Perlstein is absolutely credible and the "dicey reputation" was a smear campaign from Republicans mad about the Reagan book.

Gripweed posted:

I know Dan Carlin isn't super respected in history circles, but I find his podcast entertaining enough. So when I saw a copy of his book for cheap I picked it up. Whoo boy it is rough. His style is entertaining in podcast form but he writes in basically the exact same style and in book form it's real bad. And his shortcomings as a historian stand out way worse.

Haystack posted:

What are some good history audiobooks? Ideally works on the less depressing side.

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Gotcha good to know he's solid, I am enjoying the book and learning a lot. Just wanted to check and make sure as the audiobook is 37 hours.

dublish posted:

It's an especially silly claim to make in a book related to the history of the United States of America.

Still a great book though.

Haystack posted:

What are some good history audiobooks? Ideally works on the less depressing side.

Quarterroys posted:

The whole 4 book series (Before the Storm, Nixonland, Invisible Bridge, Reaganland) is worth your time.

I found Before the Storm in particular really interesting, as I knew almost nothing about Barry Goldwater beforehand.

I just started the first Caro LBJ book, and it is really good so far. I love the depth of the subject matter, 6 hours into the audiobook and LBJ just finished high school

Haystack posted:

What are some good history audiobooks? Ideally works on the less depressing side.

Quarterroys posted:

The whole 4 book series (Before the Storm, Nixonland, Invisible Bridge, Reaganland) is worth your time.

I found Before the Storm in particular really interesting, as I knew almost nothing about Barry Goldwater beforehand.

I just started the first Caro LBJ book, and it is really good so far. I love the depth of the subject matter, 6 hours into the audiobook and LBJ just finished high school

quote:

He found that academics' notions of highway planning contrasted with what he had seen as a reporter. "Here were these mathematical formulas about traffic density and population density and so on," he recalled, "and all of a sudden I said to myself: 'This is completely wrong. This isn't why highways get built. Highways get built because Robert Moses wants them built there. If you don't find out and explain to people where Robert Moses gets his power, then everything else you do is going to be dishonest.'"

HannibalBarca posted:

The Caro LBJ books are masterpieces. Shame they'll never be finished.

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Kinda related to that in the true crime book Mississippi Mud a judge & his wife were murdered and in the background they explain how the judge had done extensive research for a degree on the South Vietnamese legal system and the author noted this was going on late in the war and was an odd topic to pick as it would soon cease to exist and the research would have little applicable value, but him sticking with it was important to understanding his character.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

yeah i remember reading the evan Thomas book about Eisenhower (Ike's Bluff: President Eisenhower's Secret Battle to Save the World) and how he had to keep le may and Dulles from doing coups everywhere and nuking russia over paranoia about the various gaps that were proven false repeatedly.

knox posted:

For sure, I recently read Khrushchev sized up Eisenhower immediately as a fool taking his orders from Foster Dulles, as he passed Ike notes during their conversations. In The Devil's Chessboard Talbot talks about Ike giving the green light to Allen Dulles for the CIA assassinations they did pull off/being aware of everything they were up to, unlike other presidents Dulles would "serve" under and commit treason against. As a former general Eisenhower highly favored covert operations as easy/cheap alternative to wars, especially with Dulles brothers in his ear.

Punkin Spunkin posted:

Any good histories on all or any of the caliphates? Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid? I really just want more histories of the Arab and Muslim worlds that aren't like, oriented around the Crusades.

Kull the Conqueror posted:

This week I finished Taylor Branch's At Canaan's Edge, the third and final volume of his MLK/Civil Rights movement history. They are far and away my favorite history books ever, not to mention the most moving. If you're even scantly interested in the subject, it is worth at least reading the first book, Parting the Waters.

Punkin Spunkin posted:

Any good histories on all or any of the caliphates? Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid? I really just want more histories of the Arab and Muslim worlds that aren't like, oriented around the Crusades.

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Any recommendations for a history of post-war/Cold War/post-cold war Britain? Someone more ideologically neutral, especially about the Thatcher-era, would be great. Mostly trying to better understand the domestic social/economical/political stuff like nationalising/privatising whole industries, the power and decline of trades unions, and the various iterations of the British welfare state during the period, and how the various political parties fit into that over time.

Gripweed posted:

History books that start each chapter with the author talking about how they went to a place and talked to a person who is vaguely related to the topic of the chapter should have a big warning label on the front so everyone can clearly see that they belong in the garbage.

yaffle posted:

Is that what Hennessy does? I read it 15 years ago and only really remember enjoying it.

Stairmaster posted:

A history book is in of itself ideology

yaffle posted:

I've only read "Never Again" which is the first part of Peter Hennessy's trilogy about post war Britain, but It was enjoyable and quite readable, someday I'll get around to the other two. I think they stop short of the Thatcher era, and I don't have any recommendations for that because its all too depressing.