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Daniel Walker Howe's portrayal of Andrew Jackson is so unremittingly horrible that I'm darkly curious to learn how earlier writers were able to put a positive spin on him.
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Apr 19, 2023 11:55
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FPyat posted:Daniel Walker Howe's portrayal of Andrew Jackson is so unremittingly horrible that I'm darkly curious to learn how earlier writers were able to put a positive spin on him. Even during his own time you had a brutal partisan portrayal of him. You can probably blame the positive spin on the redeemers or whatever.
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Apr 19, 2023 15:07
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FPyat posted:Daniel Walker Howe's portrayal of Andrew Jackson is so unremittingly horrible that I'm darkly curious to learn how earlier writers were able to put a positive spin on him. What hath God Wrought (WHGW) is an admirable work but it is not the last word, rather another in a long line of whig rehabilitation historiography. There are plenty of Jackson "defenders" floating around- or at least people that have more positive opinions about Jacksonian democracy, from the conservative liberal constitutionalism of someone like Akhil Amar https://www.c-span.org/video/?304731-4/andrew-jackson-constitution or the controversial talk from David Heller https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/arts/historians-andrew-jackson-trump.html https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=570735920260513 to more leftist leaning works like Charles Sellers (rip) Market Revolution. Personally, I think what really matters about WHGW is the way that it tackles the questions of capitalism, class and mass democracy in antebellum america. In that sense, it is very much a reaction to the works of Charles Beard (classic progressive historian), Arthur Schlesinger (new deal liberal on the right side of the coalition, court historian for kennedy), and David Walker Howe's old teacher Charles Sellers (left historian, freedom rider and political activist). Note that WHGW came out before the financial crisis and I think a new synthesis would probably reopen a lot of the questions that Howe foreclosed writing in the end of history era and with the temporary triumph of revitalized global capitalism. Jill Lepore has an essay in the New Yorker that begins to explore some of these debates: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/10/29/vast-designs Most importantly, I think you need to consider WHGW in dialogue with the Market Revolution, which for its flaws, I prefer to WHGW. Seller's work was originally going to be the Jacksonian entry to the Oxford History of the United States but C. Vann Woodward thought it was too Marx-ish. If you are interested in the historiography of Jackson I recommend Seller's "Andrew Jackson versus the Historians" https://nature.berkeley.edu/~c-merchant/Sellers/articles/11.pdf . It's from 1958, but does a good job up through then, from someone critical but sympathetic to Jackson. Returning to the 1930s, 1940s, jefferson-jackson democrat ideology would be extremely flawed, but the debate over Jacksonian America is absolutely not over (never will be over), and Howe's own approach leads to some counterintuitive arguments that indicate where his sympathies lie. For example, do you think, as Howe argues, that the civil war would have been avoided if Henry Clay became president? Seems just as utopia as anything Schlesinger ever wrote. Finally, I would just note that Age of Jackson and the Market Revolution are pretty fun reads, with the obvious caveat that we are already in rarified company if we are talking about reading these sort of books for fun, so for that reason alone you might want to give them a shot. If not, the Age of Jackson podcast, has a series on major historical works during the Jacksonian era covering WHGW, Age of Jackson, Market Revolution and others. I was less impressed intellectually by the Sean Wilentz book (also a target of Walker Howe), but it is well written, and I guess incorporates newer historiography. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/020-charles-sellers-the-market-revolution-1991/id1337546138?i=1000498109599 Lawman 0 posted:Even during his own time you had a brutal partisan portrayal of him. You can probably blame the positive spin on the redeemers or whatever. I wouldn't give the redeemers too much credit here, George Bancroft's history of the US is super pro jackson, written pre civil war, so given how the Bancroft prize is the premier history prize in the US... At any rate, this is maybe a bit confused, but I'm glad the topic came up and I hope that this opens up some avenues of inquiry.
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Apr 19, 2023 17:53
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I haven't read Arthur Schlesinger's Age of Jackson, but I'm reading his Age of Roosevelt currently and it's a really good book series even if really slanted. Sucks that it was never finished.
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Apr 19, 2023 18:04
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sube posted:I haven't read Arthur Schlesinger's Age of Jackson, but I'm reading his Age of Roosevelt currently and it's a really good book series even if really slanted. Sucks that it was never finished. :salute: I agree! We are past due to for a new synthesis of that time period, written in such an engaging manner.
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Apr 19, 2023 18:18
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plogo posted::salute: I agree! We are past due to for a new synthesis of that time period, written in such an engaging manner. True though I’m unsure nowadays multi-volume histories of this kind would see funding from academia unless one has certain prominence. I could be wrong though. Just my observation since I don’t remember any new examples beyond Wallerstein, but maybe it‘s just amount of information to digest ks much higher now (Wallerstein's modern world system series always has ~100 pages bibliography)
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Apr 19, 2023 18:29
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You might be right- but I think these things can have a pretty wide appeal. Something like The Battle Cry of Freedom or the Robert Caro books seem to be typical among non-military history, history books that I run into that non history readers pick up. I just think that David Kennedy's "Freedom from Fear" (the oxford history entry for the new deal era) is a bit dry and maybe covers too long a period and Ira Katznelson's Fear Itself is thematically organized rather than a comprehensive take on the new deal, as far as new attempts. A while ago I asked this threads for recommendations for the 1936 election and while there was no response here, David Pietrusza came out with a book on that election last year. It was really informative for me because it goes into all these social movements / events that tend to be glossed over in larger accounts. I would like stuff like that to get worked into major narratives for the period.
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Apr 19, 2023 18:58
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Ah I did forget about Caro entirely, though he isn't published by academic presses. I haven't read the Kennedy one yet so I can't judge. Something I want to read more some time are revisionist histories of Hoover's era since on the financial side he laid the groundwork with the foundation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation.
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Apr 19, 2023 19:07
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FPyat posted:Daniel Walker Howe's portrayal of Andrew Jackson is so unremittingly horrible that I'm darkly curious to learn how earlier writers were able to put a positive spin on him. Don't worry, he comes across even worse in Steve Inskeep's Jacksonland.
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Apr 19, 2023 21:50
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God. That’s an awesome response to receive.
FPyat fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 20, 2023 |
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Apr 20, 2023 02:24
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A Law Unto Itself: The Untold Story of Sullivan & Cromwell - 100 Years of Creating Power & Wealth Important history about one of the most powerful law firms that has always operated outside of the law in many ways, from Allen Dulles longest serving CIA director or Ryne Miller head consul of FTX, link to pdf of full physical page scans since not in publication/exists in JSTOR or expensive Amazon used copies https://ia803001.us.archive.org/18/...Sullivan%20.pdf
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Apr 22, 2023 00:05
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Anyone have a good recommendation on a comprehensive history of the Roma? It could be specific to region or time period, but I'm more interested in the history prior to 1900.
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Apr 22, 2023 16:18
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Any good books on the Christian theological controversies of the 4th and 5th centuries? Ive found Ehrman mostly sticks to theorizing about the first 200 years.
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Apr 23, 2023 19:32
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Any good books on the Christian theological controversies of the 4th and 5th centuries? Jesus Wars by Philip Jenkins is exactly what you are looking for
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Apr 24, 2023 03:26
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Anyone know of any books in English about the early modern Arabian Penninusla? Somewhere in the ballpark of 1500 to 1800 (although I'm flexible on dates). Specifically about Arabia itself, not the broader Indian Ocean world.
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Apr 27, 2023 16:38
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CrypticFox posted:Jesus Wars by Philip Jenkins is exactly what you are looking for
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Apr 28, 2023 01:41
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What's the best single volume history of the Napoleonic wars?
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Apr 28, 2023 16:12
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Gripweed posted:What's the best single volume history of the Napoleonic wars?
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Apr 28, 2023 18:00
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Gripweed posted:What's the best single volume history of the Napoleonic wars? I recently read The Napoleonic Wars by Alexander Mikaberidze and found it to be pretty enjoyable. It mostly focuses on the grander geopolitical picture rather than the nitty gritty details of every battle, but I found that preferable since it's easy to get lost in those.
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Apr 28, 2023 18:27
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Finally digging into the main body of Gotham by Burrows and Wallace, which I received in the Secret Santa from PatMarshall. With Robert Fulton's voyage, technological improvement is becoming an increasingly predominant part of the book, just a continual buzz of change and growth in the city. Can't wait to start encountering more familiar present-day landmarks.Burrows and Wallace posted:"Sometimes [well-off men handing out Bibles for the edification of the poor] were laughed at by sailors brandishing books by 'Hume, Gibbon, Paine,' and other infidels." FPyat fucked around with this message at 07:35 on May 1, 2023 |
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Apr 29, 2023 12:08
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1834: Reverend Cox chides his parishioners for their hatred of blacks, pointing out that given Christ's likely skin color, they would reject him as well. Many white people all around New York are furious. "He called our Saviour a WHAT??"
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May 2, 2023 15:32
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I picked up "Twilight of the Gods" and I'm prepared to have a bad time with it.
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May 2, 2023 15:51
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Lawman 0 posted:I picked up "Twilight of the Gods" and I'm prepared to have a bad time with it. i liked the first book in the trilogy but alot of those books are very slow. happily it wasnt that dry. i am sure someone more knowledgeble will correct me.
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May 2, 2023 21:32
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i liked the first book in the trilogy but alot of those books are very slow. happily it wasnt that dry. i am sure someone more knowledgeble will correct me. Just cracked it open and it's like 900 pages. 
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May 2, 2023 22:04
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so does Ian W. Toll suck or something?
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May 2, 2023 22:49
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It seems like a fine conventional style history to me so far. 
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May 2, 2023 23:38
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So long and I still came away wishing it were longer. Didn't even have time to mention the USS Samuel B Roberts.
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May 3, 2023 02:39
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Lawman 0 posted:Just cracked it open and it's like 900 pages. I have confidence in you Lawman.0
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May 3, 2023 20:05
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https://twitter.com/saywhatagain/status/1653097062823518209?s=20
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May 4, 2023 17:31
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I really enjoyed A Distant Mirror, which is probably going to have a lot of influence on the RPG I'm designing, and it also got me to finally decide to take a vacation to London and Paris this summer and see some stuff. Does anybody have any other books to recommend that focus on medieval Europe and the surrounding periods? (Or, I suppose, any sightseeing tips?)
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May 7, 2023 02:16
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Rand Brittain posted:I really enjoyed A Distant Mirror, which is probably going to have a lot of influence on the RPG I'm designing, and it also got me to finally decide to take a vacation to London and Paris this summer and see some stuff. Norman Cantor’s ‘The Civilization of the Middle Ages’ is good and neat and well written and similarly made me think about RPG’s (which may or may not be a great endorsement of a history book)
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May 7, 2023 02:46
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Rand Brittain posted:I really enjoyed A Distant Mirror, which is probably going to have a lot of influence on the RPG I'm designing, and it also got me to finally decide to take a vacation to London and Paris this summer and see some stuff. If you're looking for source material for game design but don't want to slog through, say, the seven volumes of the Cambridge mediaeval history series, you could do worse.
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May 7, 2023 09:30
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Mortimer has written several sequel's covering later periods. All pretty good. I'd especially recommend the Restoration period one. Which I found especially interesting, so many later institutions and ideas get their first tentative steps then.
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May 7, 2023 18:20
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And that's the story of how I found myself navigating a VPN to buy a four-volume set of history books from another country. Thanks for the recommendations!
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May 8, 2023 06:00
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https://twitter.com/alloy_dr/status/1653514266266279936?s=20
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May 8, 2023 14:59
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This is probably more appropriate for this thread than the book club thread, so I'll post this here: Back when I was working on (what I didn't realize at the time was an abandoned first version of) my doctoral dissertation, I got to go through far-right British politician Enoch Powell's personal papers at Cambridge. I was very surprised to find he had a correspondence with Mary Renault. My memory is that it was mainly about some aspect of her depiction of Alexander the Great in her later novels.
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May 8, 2023 15:53
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Chairman Capone posted:This is probably more appropriate for this thread than the book club thread, so I'll post this here: Interesting. I was about to ask if Powell had some crank theory about the "racial characteristics" of Macedonians, but then I remembered that he did actually have a reputable academic background as a classicist; he might actually have had something relevant to say about Alexander.
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May 8, 2023 17:53
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Rand Brittain posted:And that's the story of how I found myself navigating a VPN to buy a four-volume set of history books from another country. Thanks for the recommendations! If you are interesting in the late roman empire / early middle ages I would check out Chris Wickham's works such as The Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages 400-1000.
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May 8, 2023 19:20
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Major co-sign everything Renault ever wrote, thanks to you and this forum for actually getting me into her if I remember right (and then I promptly read every novel of hers and mourned the fact she'd never write more)
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May 8, 2023 20:31
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Any recommends on the history of Australia? Something from Botany Bay to its federation, I suppose?
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May 16, 2023 00:51
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