There are several books in the middle where he literally does nothing but appear in one scene toward the beginning or end and grit his teeth furiously.
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# ? Jun 29, 2016 05:02 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 07:53 |
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Well he's an ever present corrupting influence and he doesn't have to actually do anything besides show up to mess with people.
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# ? Jun 29, 2016 06:16 |
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Wasn't there a theory that Fain was meant to be Mat's primary antagonist in the same way that Slayer is Perrin's?
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# ? Jun 29, 2016 10:53 |
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Wasn't Mat's primary antagonist the gholam?
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# ? Jun 29, 2016 11:06 |
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Red Mike posted:Wasn't Mat's primary antagonist the gholam? And also marriage
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# ? Jun 29, 2016 17:29 |
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Dealing With This poo poo
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# ? Jun 29, 2016 23:04 |
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Hmm. Remove the gholam and put Fain in it's place, and aside from having to change a few details, it surprisingly works out. Almost like Jordan at some point forgot that Fain was to be Matt's arch-nemesis, but still remembered how the plot to Matt's arch-nemesis went, so he ginned up a vampire and called it a day. e. or he came up with an even better idea for Fain around Book 8 or so, so he made the substitution but then forgot to write the idea down. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jul 8, 2016 |
# ? Jul 8, 2016 10:02 |
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Makes sense.
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# ? Jul 8, 2016 16:55 |
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rndmnmbr posted:Hmm. Remove the gholam and put Fain in it's place, and aside from having to change a few details, it surprisingly works out. Mat's trajectory seemed like a massive swerve. In tEotW the dagger seems like a fundamental part of his Ta'vaereenness - the little magic figurine has him with the dagger, perrin with the wolf, and Rand with the sword - and he even starts to tap into his Other-memory without the thing-Finn doing the Finn-thing. Then he just starts accumulating magic trinkets.
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# ? Jul 9, 2016 13:10 |
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Mat's trajectory seemed like a massive swerve. Let's be honest here, though: until halfway through TDR, Matt was boring. He didn't become an interesting character until RJ swapped his superpowers from 'generic evil disease' to 'stupid-awesome luck'.
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# ? Jul 12, 2016 03:37 |
rndmnmbr posted:Let's be honest here, though: until halfway through TDR, Matt was boring. He didn't become an interesting character until RJ swapped his superpowers from 'generic evil disease' to 'stupid-awesome luck'. And really I didn't find him entertaining or even tolerable until Sanderson made him actually funny (like he was always intended to be), instead of the text constantly just saying third-hand that he was joking around or cracking wise and not letting us actually hear anything come out of his mouth but caustic complaints. I loved the bit about the rich dramatic backstories he had invented for all his companions' assumed identities
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# ? Jul 12, 2016 05:02 |
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I think I had read too much Sanderson by that point and just found it to be more of the same from his other books. Wit in Stormlight is one of the least funny characters ever.
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# ? Jul 12, 2016 06:19 |
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Data Graham posted:And really I didn't find him entertaining or even tolerable until Sanderson made him actually funny (like he was always intended to be), instead of the text constantly just saying third-hand that he was joking around or cracking wise and not letting us actually hear anything come out of his mouth but caustic complaints. I could not possibly disagree more. This also p.much puts to rest the lie that Sanderson captured Mat's tone. He turned Mat into a ham. Of course, ham-fisted humor is the only humor that Sanderson seems capable of writing. See: Stormlight Archives. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 12, 2016 |
# ? Jul 12, 2016 16:27 |
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Sanderson's characterization of Matt felt off, but I couldn't really hit on why. I suppose Jordan's character was this reluctantly capable individual that was intentionally dumped on plot-wise and internally contradictory as comedy relief. Sanderson's felt overdone - too bombastic somehow.
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# ? Jul 12, 2016 16:35 |
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Jordan never intended Mat to be likable, and was surprised when he was a fan favorite. Sanderson tried to make him likable.
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# ? Jul 12, 2016 16:35 |
That would explain it then. By the time Sanderson took over I was jonesing for some attempt, however clumsy and transparent, to make any of these guys likable.
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# ? Jul 12, 2016 16:42 |
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Data Graham posted:That would explain it then. I still can't figure out why you'd read 14 lengthy books you hate.
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# ? Jul 13, 2016 02:49 |
So I could have the moral high ground over someone who snidely refused to take the time to read/watch anything I suggested for him. Not saying it wasn't a childish move, but dammit, at least I commit to my bad decisions. (Also it seems it's an element of basic genre literacy that I've been missing all these years for the purpose of reading mockery of stuff like the Sword of Truth, so what the hell, I don't regret it.)
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# ? Jul 13, 2016 03:21 |
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Data Graham posted:So I could have the moral high ground over someone who snidely refused to take the time to read/watch anything I suggested for him. Life is too short man. This is like my friend who reads Ayn Rand so he can participate in online political debates in good faith.
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# ? Jul 13, 2016 03:41 |
Eh. It ate five months of commutes. It was either that or reload the forums more obsessively than usual. And anyway it's fun using it as a source for real-life trolling. Like when we were shopping for fireworks I casually referred to certain ones as "nightflowers" just for the him: "what" me: "what" reaction.
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# ? Jul 13, 2016 04:12 |
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Surely you mean sky lights?
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# ? Jul 14, 2016 02:45 |
JawKnee posted:Sanderson's characterization of Matt felt off, but I couldn't really hit on why. I suppose Jordan's character was this reluctantly capable individual that was intentionally dumped on plot-wise and internally contradictory as comedy relief. Sanderson's felt overdone - too bombastic somehow. Jordan's Matt never rarely tried to be funny, and when he did try he usually failed. The humor in Jordan's Matt came from him being, from his perspective, the only sane man in an insane world of witches and idiot princesses and Seanchan who keeps pursuing a series of seemingly sensible and rational courses of action which, thanks to twists of fate, keep turning him into either a hero or a buffoon or both.
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# ? Jul 14, 2016 09:11 |
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Mat's also the kind of guy that gets into trouble by being impulsive, not necessarily the kind of guy that tells jokes.
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# ? Jul 14, 2016 09:30 |
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Blind Melon posted:Jordan never intended Mat to be likable, and was surprised when he was a fan favorite. Sanderson tried to make him likable. After he got his luck powers, Matt quickly became one of my favourite characters. I can understand why Jordan wouldn't have thought he was that likeable in the first couple of books though.
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# ? Jul 15, 2016 21:32 |
team overhead smash posted:After he got his luck powers, Matt quickly became one of my favourite characters. I can understand why Jordan wouldn't have thought he was that likeable in the first couple of books though. Yeah, I have a hard time believing that Jordan didn't think Mat was likable from TDR onwards; you don't have an unlikable character beat two aristocrats in a swordfight with a stick and then invent demolition charges.
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# ? Jul 16, 2016 02:51 |
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He immediately went on a drunken gambling binge culminating in his suicide pact jumping off a bridge with a grey man and... I'm undermining my whole argument here who am I kidding.
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# ? Jul 16, 2016 04:43 |
In retrospect that may have been a conscious effort to rehabilitate Mat from the dagger-Gollum he was in book 2.
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# ? Jul 16, 2016 15:12 |
You can see foreshadowing of Matt 's later character early in eotw, when he's flouring people's dogs for a prank and so forth. He was planned as the trickster figure from the start.
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# ? Jul 16, 2016 15:42 |
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A trickster and a comedian are two different things.
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# ? Jul 16, 2016 16:07 |
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Blind Melon posted:A trickster and a comedian are two different things. That's what I meant when I said there was a difference between someone with poor impulse control and a guy who tells jokes.
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# ? Jul 16, 2016 16:43 |
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Just started reading this series. I'm at the beginning of book 2. Does Rand ever loving man up and stop getting punked by almost everyone around him? I'm getting tired of him being a big baby bitch when he should be a straight up G.
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# ? Jul 31, 2016 21:04 |
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Lpzie posted:Just started reading this series. I'm at the beginning of book 2. Does Rand ever loving man up and stop getting punked by almost everyone around him? I'm getting tired of him being a big baby bitch when he should be a straight up G. yes, in the book 13
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# ? Jul 31, 2016 21:15 |
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Lpzie posted:Just started reading this series. I'm at the beginning of book 2. Does Rand ever loving man up and stop getting punked by almost everyone around him? I'm getting tired of him being a big baby bitch when he should be a straight up G. He starts to do so at the end of book 2, and even more at the end of book 3.
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# ? Jul 31, 2016 21:48 |
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Lpzie posted:Just started reading this series. I'm at the beginning of book 2. Does Rand ever loving man up and stop getting punked by almost everyone around him? I'm getting tired of him being a big baby bitch when he should be a straight up G. He certainly does, but he is also a giant baby many more times throughout the series. TGH is a big improvement over TEotW, and TDR is a nice step up again.
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# ? Aug 1, 2016 16:13 |
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Lpzie posted:Just started reading this series. I'm at the beginning of book 2. Does Rand ever loving man up and stop getting punked by almost everyone around him? I'm getting tired of him being a big baby bitch when he should be a straight up G. His entire arc is the story of him doing this he casually takes control of kingdoms without even trying or wanting to, and beneath the po-faced presentation it's pretty funny tbh
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# ? Aug 2, 2016 00:37 |
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Book 2 might still have the best conclusion of any book in the series.
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# ? Aug 2, 2016 01:09 |
Atlas Hugged posted:Book 2 might still have the best conclusion of any book in the series. Which part? Lanfear, the skyfight, the hornbattle?
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# ? Aug 2, 2016 01:20 |
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Ingtar is cool.
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# ? Aug 2, 2016 01:26 |
Hogge Wild posted:Ingtar is cool. Oh yeah that is one of the better scenes from the book too, isn't it.
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# ? Aug 2, 2016 01:29 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 07:53 |
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silvergoose posted:Which part? Lanfear, the skyfight, the hornbattle? Yes.
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# ? Aug 2, 2016 13:35 |