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Neurosis posted:I thought Artur did it mostly by himself, but his hatred of the Aes Sedai and his refusal to seek Healing from one when he was dying was engineered by Ishamael. Artur did all of the unification on his own, but near the end Ishmael popped up and became his main advisor. He put the seeds of distrust of Aes Sedai in Artur, which led to the attack on the white tower, Artur sending his sons across the sea, and his eventual downfall and the breaking of the empire.
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Jan 29, 2012 22:30
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werdnam posted:I guess if you've spent twenty years planning on how to save the world from the Dark One by finding and using the Dragon Reborn, it would be pretty annoying to find them and then be almost completely unable to guide them. She's playing catch-up all the time, it seems. That is until she remembers how Saidar works 
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Mar 20, 2012 23:01
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Hobbes24 posted:Just out of curiosity, how are you finishing them that fast? I'm a fairly fast reader myself, but it's been less than 3 months and you've read 12 monstrous books. That's a really good pace. I go through one a day if I'm on break, or over two days if I'm not. (I just finished re-reading ToM over two days.) Consume your life indeed. I'll probably try and do each one over 3ish days each before the final book comes out, see if I can spread the love out some more.
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Mar 28, 2012 05:39
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Kruller posted:7 through 10 are a shitload easier when you know there's another book coming after it immediately. It was the wait after 10 that made me hate it so much. It was much better on my re-read. This 100%. 10 is actually quite good, especially the Mat parts. 9 has one of the coolest moments in the entire series. I really enjoy reading people's reaction as they read everything for the first time (or second+ if they forgot something)
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Apr 6, 2012 18:44
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Stim0r posted:Well crap. Book 8, and Siuan falls in love with Gareth. There's another woman who is now completely useless. Haha wow, this couldn't be more wrong.
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Apr 16, 2012 22:18
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Quad posted:These are words about Olver, with a little extra-book knowledge: Woah, this never occurred to me. It...makes a lot of sense. 
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May 16, 2012 06:49
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Chamberk posted:I just started Fires of Heaven, and since I picked the series with book 4 after a several-year break, I have a question or two about the prologue. He was balefired by Moiraine in the Stone. Never monologue!
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May 17, 2012 22:53
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Pimpmust posted:Jordan sure loved that loving circus, the way it kept popping up. Rand and Perrin will perhaps ride it into the last battle, just to get everyone in on that sweet juggling action. Am I the only person who liked the circus as well? I liked seeing Luca deal with all of the different personalities, and some massive world-changing events took place while different characters were traveling with the circus. So pay attention, those of you who are reading for the first time!
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May 27, 2012 18:39
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Cerepol posted:I sense some fun times ahead for you, She does in fact not get better with age. See, I completely disagree.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:17
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Roydrowsy posted:are those book, 9, 10, 11 really that awful? The general consensus in these parts is that 8-10 are slow. I really like them but YMMV.
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Aug 1, 2012 23:00
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api call girl posted:No, that's the point. You're already naturally empathizing with the stress, having his self-justifying monologue in the POVs isn't helping matters. Yep. His descent into madness becomes more obvious if you read the books backwards.
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Aug 3, 2012 21:58
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I'm about to start my re-read. I'm going to have to pace myself slower than normal if I want to finish ToM a few days to a week before AMoL comes out. I'm so loving excited everybody. I was going to put this off until late October but whatever. I'll be posting some particularly epic quotes as I hit them (but not once I pass the thread)
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Sep 15, 2012 05:59
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Ormy posted:I just finished it for the first time; it wasn't that bad but I am super excited to start 11. You're in for quite a ride, as Jordan finally pushes over the massive line bof dominoes he spent 10 books setting up in Knife of Dreams.
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Sep 17, 2012 21:25
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basx posted:Finally finished book ten. I feel like I just took a huge dump after weeks of constipation. It's more than worth it (if you didn't enjoy it). Knife of dreams is where the dominos start to fall.
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Oct 25, 2012 16:57
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Charlz Guybon posted:Storm of Light! Don't gently caress with the little wolf
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Jan 3, 2013 11:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The weird thing is, that's foreshadowed as early as Book 3 or so. Somehow while I was reading I managed to figure out that Verin was probably "reformed black" but didn't manage to figure out that Sheriam was black. I think I just refused to believe it because Sheriam is such a likeable character early on. It's actually book two, when Verin says something like "Oh, Moiraine sent me to join up with you guys" and Moiraine has no loving clue. Therefore she lied, therefore she is black ajah
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Jun 9, 2013 23:24
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It seems to me that a lot of people on this page have been forgetting the majesty that is hanging around somebody who is ta'vern. They quite literally bend the pattern around them.
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Nov 11, 2013 02:47
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Strom Cuzewon posted:More than Sanderson's better pace, books 12 and 13 completely outstrip the rest of the series in terms of sheer holy poo poo moments. That's because Jordan had spent so much time setting all of the dominos up, and in Knife of Dreams he gave them a little push. Man what a bunch of incredible payoffs we got, though 
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Jun 1, 2014 21:46
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ShadowCatboy posted:They can. This is precisely how Elaida and her cronies killed Siuan's warder. Andric his name was, I think. There were a couple black ajah members in the group that killed him/captured Siuan, so it was most likely one of them that did the deed. (Danelle/Mesaana, or Alvarin)
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Jan 1, 2015 21:44
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Torrannor posted:After being reincarnated as Moridin he helped Rand in his battle with Sammael, which I don't really understand. The reasoning behind this is the Dark One was still running his "Have Rand blow everything up for him" long con, which happened to be working quite well at the time. Sammael was less valuable than Rand, so Sammael was the one who had to die.
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May 10, 2015 06:56
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Dysgenesis posted:I am just at this bit in my re-read and I like your interpretation a lot. With the amount of times people talk about Elayne having her nose in the air, that was absolutely Jordan's intent.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:20
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Pash posted:I honestly am still not entirely sure if Book 11 was good or if it was just so much better than the drivel that was book 10 that I thought it was amazing... but ya... It's all uphill from book 10. Book 11 is when Jordan gives the massive domino stack that he spent 10 books setting up a nice flick. It really is a shame that he couldn't finish the series off himself completely, but I'm still very happy with what we got.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:02
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Atlas Hugged posted:Yeah, it was definitely a great opening act to the conclusion and what we got was "good enough". We'll never really know if Jordan would have done it better or not and I don't think Sanderson has gone into much detail on what he did, touched up, or left alone. The Black Tower story was almost 100% Sanderson, the opening to Towers of Midnight was entirely Jordan (which should be noticeable due to the different feel of combat), the Hinderstrap story was entirely Jordan, as was the Aelfinn and Elfinn world in ToM. There are some other bits that Sanderson mentioned, but he certainly hasn't said it all. I'm ok with not knowing.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:05
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RC Cola posted:Egwene vs the seanchan was very powerful The chapters of her blowing them out of the sky and saving whoever she could in the tower and the end of the book (Veins of Gold, I'm looking at you) were just so cathartic.
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Mar 14, 2016 15:05
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Pimpmust posted:Nope, he wrote (most of?) the last chapter after the fightings done though, probably wasn't his finished draft. Well, there are still quite a few parts that were about 100% Jordan, such as the entire sequence with Mat/Thom/Julian in the land of the snakes and foxes. Or the hinderstap part (which a lot of people assumed was 100% Sanderson, until he later revealed was actually entirely Jordan). I really do wish that Jordan had notes regarding solving the black tower issue, as that was 100% Sanderson and was a bit much in parts. Still interesting, but very different from the style that had been established.
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Mar 17, 2016 08:40
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:It's from Dragon Reborn, when Rand is on his way to Tear alone and being haunted by visions supplied by Ishamael. He makes a campfire one night, a merchant and her bodyguards and their caravan stop by the side of the road and ask if they can share his fire, Rand says yes then whips out his fire sword and proceeds to slaughter them all with it, including the woman. The part at the end of that section is just like holy poo poo RandThe Dragon Reborn posted:The Power still filled him, the flow from saidin sweeter than honey, ranker than rotted meat. Abruptly
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May 7, 2016 08:33
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Torrannor posted:Rand is not everybody. He's one of the strongest magicians around, and destiny basically has already decided on how his life will unfold, at least in rough terms. He's can't even deviate from the plan, the Pattern will force him back onto it if he tries. That has nothing to do with "everybody can be a leader". Post-Dragonmount Rand also got the memories of a several hundred years old military leader from a few thousand years ago. Anyway, Rand's whole deal is that it sucks to be the chosen one. Your friend doesn't understand the books. Absolutely. Rand is slowly but surely going insane (the books are interesting if you read them in reverse order to see him regain sanity), which is made super obvious if you pay attention to what everybody else is doing during his PoV's. He thinks he's sane, but dude is loving nuts. Being tortured and trapped in a box twice didn't help. Data Graham posted:Yet even so, what you see is a guy who you'd see on a list of famous fictional people on the ENTJ page of some pop-psychology website, along with other flawed and hated and forcefully charismatic figures like Napoleon and Trump and Jobs. People who can take one look at the world and pronounce judgment and start issuing orders for how to bring about their vision; whether those orders are stupid or not, that's kind of beside the point. These aren't people who nurture or who follow or who build communities. They're people who command. Rand is shown as a literal crazy person. Also, unlike Napoleon and etc he didn't want to be the big fancy leader, it was forced upon him and he just learned that he had to roll with it after trying to get out of being chosen to go mad and die. Data Graham posted:I don't want to get too E/N about this, but this friend's theory is that anyone can be made into a Napoleon, you just need to give them the right series of whacks in the head, and getting to that goal is more important (to him) than whether the resulting person is really a good leader or not. And "X person just isn't cut out for playing that kind of role" is just not on the radar. Not to be rude, but your friend sounds like a doofus who is comically misinterpreting the books.
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Jun 12, 2016 23:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:To really see how crazy Rand gets you have to focus on the passages that arent' from Rand's perspective, or focus on how other people are reacting to Rand's behavior. The Dragon Reborn posted:
That's going to be a super  moment for people if the TV show does it (or hopefully attempts to do it well). Dude was crazy and not supposed to seem like a wonderful hero at the time. He was trying to do good things but uhh...certainly didn't always turn out that way.
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Jun 15, 2016 04:46
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Been thinking about the series, did Jordan set up the reveal on Dragonmount in The Great Hunt when Rand sees that he never gives into the Dark One in countless lives? I know he set it up in other phrophecies/visions that Min had earlier. I'd like to know if that was a scene that was 100% Jordan, 100% Sanderson, or a mix. I could very much see it being all Jordan, as he did write a lot of the big things that he had been setting up for 10 books or so.
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Jun 15, 2016 16:16
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Data Graham posted:Is there any kind of insight anywhere into which parts of the final three were by Jordan, and how far along they were? Sanderson has made some comments on certain sections that were 100% him and sections that were 100% Jordan on twitter and at some conventions, but I don't think we'll ever know everything exactly. The Aelfinn and Eelfinn section at the end of ToM was 100% Jordan, the epilogue was like 98% Jordan, a huge chunk of each book's prologue (including the super good scene in ToM in the borderlands), and etc were Jordan. There's more as well but those are the ones off the top of my head that were almost entirely him, instead of concepts, sentences, or paragraphs that needed to get turned into chapters by Sanderson.
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Jun 15, 2016 23:05
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Lpzie posted:Just started reading this series. I'm at the beginning of book 2. Does Rand ever loving man up and stop getting punked by almost everyone around him? I'm getting tired of him being a big baby bitch when he should be a straight up G. He certainly does, but he is also a giant baby many more times throughout the series. TGH is a big improvement over TEotW, and TDR is a nice step up again.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:13
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Data Graham posted:While going through the last few volumes by Jordan I was trying to detect any tone change that would indicate he knew he was sick. The timeline in Wikipedia suggests he wasn't diagnosed until after Book 11 was published, but I did certainly notice the narrative slowdown rolling into book 8-9 (especially book 10's "let's recap the cleansing of saidin from six different perspectives" trick, followed by him deliberately speeding things up again in 11 when he realized that had backfired). But I couldn't tell whether any of that was telegraphing anything about his personal health. People in other threads are talking like he knew he was dying for several volumes toward the end. Is there any confirmation of that? Or did that really all take place after his final book came out? He did admit that in hindsight doing CoT the way he did was a mistake. It was an interesting idea, but the big pain came from people who didn't get to binge having to wait extra long for it/the next book due to him presumably working on the prologue between Winter's Heart and CoT (that was the biggest time gap in between books, which is really saying something about the dude). He received his terminal diagnosis in 2006 (after Knife of Dreams came out), and worked his hardest to make sure that his fans would have a conclusion to the series that some had been reading for ~16~ years at that point. Contrast that with GRRM, who is never going to finish his far shorter series before he dies.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:27
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