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OhsH
Jan 12, 2008

Combat Pretzel posted:

What's this poo poo about track accuracy with PCARS? People have been picking their poo poo apart over the development of these, and SMS has kept fixing these issues. Is it because it's not laser scanned?

couldn't tell you :sigh:

plz be to be releasing soon project cars.

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Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist

Any of you goons have an Obutto cockpit of some sort that would give it a strong recommendation?

I'm getting dangerously close to buying a cockpit of some sort.

I'd still like to be able to use the PC as a workstation at times. Might dabble in space Sims at times.

Worth it?

Essobie
Jan 31, 2003

WHAT? THIS IS MY REGULAR SPEAKING VOICE.
Is this better?
I have an Ozone. I like it quite a bit. It takes a bit of getting used to, and if you want to do some flight sims as well as sim racing, I recommend a couple of additions: The flight stick and throttle add-on, and the fully articulating keyboard tray (the one that comes with the revolution version of the desk). The basic keyboard tray that comes with the ozone is kind of poo poo... it only rotates.

That combination means you'll be able to swing the keyboard easily out of the way and pop in both a flight stick and a throttle stand (with your HOTAS attached, already of course) and switching from car to cockpit is about a 10 second ordeal.

That said, I really had to talk myself into pulling the trigger on this because it was going to mean giving up my nice Ikea computer desk and expensive office chair full time. If you read the obutto forums you'll see a lot of people go this route, and again, it takes some getting used to. I'd recommend reading stuff on their forums about it if you are thinking about either the ozone or the revolution. I think if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably get the revolution instead and eat the extra cost (which is not a small difference). It has a better 3 monitor solution than the Ozone, has more add on options (articulating table surfaces), and comes with the better keyboard mount (as mentioned above).

There are other premade cockpit solutions out there, but the Ozone was the best bang for the buck from the reviews and such that I looked at.

If you are super handy with PVC and like to paint, drill, etc., there are a few pretty good looking plans available on the net that might be worth a look that you can have for way less money (but quite a bit more time). I think the inside sim racing forums have a DYI section that has a lot of pictures and tips on that route.

Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist

Thanks for the tip on the diy stuff. I'll look into it, but I have a feeling the time to dollar ratio will push me to one of the kit cockpits.

The Volair looks nice as well, but they dont look as sturdy.

The Science Goy
Mar 27, 2007

Where did you learn to drive?
Ouch, over a thousand bucks shipped for the Revolution with the triple screen mount? It looks good, but not THAT good.

About a hundred bucks (including the seat) and about eight hours of work on a Saturday, and I built my rig based on the Simul8r mkII plans. Another $75 gets three Monoprice monitor mounts.

That said, there is no way in hell I'd use my sim rig as a workstation. The chair is fine, but I would need to get an articulating arm like the Obutto to even consider it. That's the next thing I want to add to my setup - just rachet the seat further back, swing the keyboard and mouse into position, and I would be all set.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008

by Shine
Karelia Cross is a fun track.



I also ran an AI race there that I am going to records, because, uh, the AI is kind of like a bunch of teenagers with a few light beers in them going around there.

Jehde
Apr 21, 2010

365 Nog Hogger posted:

Karelia Cross is a fun track.



I also ran an AI race there that I am going to records, because, uh, the AI is kind of like a bunch of teenagers with a few light beers in them going around there.

I like how frequently the AI will just soar over that one guard rail.

I've been having fun trying to get the 288 around Kaleria in under a minute. Only managed 1:02 so far but there's a lot I could shave off that.

Edit: Just managed a 0:58.7. :toot: I forgot to save the replay though, and it had a couple of nasty bumps along the way anyway. I did however manage to save a slightly cleaner replay of a 0:59.4. It's still pretty messy with a lot of room for improvement, but atleast I stay mostly on the track in this one. :v:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGLL9swyxw4

Jehde fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Feb 25, 2015

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Combat Pretzel posted:

What's this poo poo about track accuracy with PCARS? People have been picking their poo poo apart over the development of these, and SMS has kept fixing these issues. Is it because it's not laser scanned?

Having not played it myself I relied on what I perceived to be general concesus. If that isn't the case (or not anymore) I'll take that part out. I'm not here to poo poo on anything, I'm just trying to give a reasonable overview of what to expect from the different sims.

Nerdrock
Jan 31, 2006

Essobie posted:

I have an Ozone. I like it quite a bit. It takes a bit of getting used to, and if you want to do some flight sims as well as sim racing, I recommend a couple of additions: The flight stick and throttle add-on, and the fully articulating keyboard tray (the one that comes with the revolution version of the desk). The basic keyboard tray that comes with the ozone is kind of poo poo... it only rotates.

That combination means you'll be able to swing the keyboard easily out of the way and pop in both a flight stick and a throttle stand (with your HOTAS attached, already of course) and switching from car to cockpit is about a 10 second ordeal.

That said, I really had to talk myself into pulling the trigger on this because it was going to mean giving up my nice Ikea computer desk and expensive office chair full time. If you read the obutto forums you'll see a lot of people go this route, and again, it takes some getting used to. I'd recommend reading stuff on their forums about it if you are thinking about either the ozone or the revolution. I think if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably get the revolution instead and eat the extra cost (which is not a small difference). It has a better 3 monitor solution than the Ozone, has more add on options (articulating table surfaces), and comes with the better keyboard mount (as mentioned above).

There are other premade cockpit solutions out there, but the Ozone was the best bang for the buck from the reviews and such that I looked at.

If you are super handy with PVC and like to paint, drill, etc., there are a few pretty good looking plans available on the net that might be worth a look that you can have for way less money (but quite a bit more time). I think the inside sim racing forums have a DYI section that has a lot of pictures and tips on that route.

This is a perfect post. As an owner of an Ozone myself, I agree with all of these statements %100. I'd also just get a r3volution were I given a do-over, because the addons for the ozone bring it up to close to that cost anyways.

My only issue is that I can't seem to push my G27 down far enough so that the fully articulating keyboard tray moves into place for me to use comfortably.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

GhostDog posted:

Having not played it myself I relied on what I perceived to be general concesus. If that isn't the case (or not anymore) I'll take that part out. I'm not here to poo poo on anything, I'm just trying to give a reasonable overview of what to expect from the different sims.
Most feedback you'll find on the big sim forums is just constant making GBS threads on SMS for the Shift series, which is a gently caress up from EA, that SMS happened to be contracted for. EA messed the marketing and game up, SMS is now paying for it.

The tracks were based on either licensed or public data. After the first drafts, the community rode their asses up and down with barrages of additional references material. They should be accurate enough that laser scanning shouldn't make any noticeable difference.

Same goes for the physics. The Shift series and initial versions of PCARS were based on an evolved version of the RBR tire model, because they were written all by the same person, which has a good reputation. RBR gets people to cum all over. In regards to PCARS, everyone keeps pointing at Shift, which just handled like poo poo because EA vetoed the physics to make them easier for gamepads. Now it's based on finite elements for both the carcass and the tread. But apparently it's still poo poo if you ask the general community. Interestingly, SMS has released all feedback and discussions to the public, people still not satisfied. RF2 still uses the outdated brush model, iRacing and AC are black boxes, but they can't do no harm.

I forgot the point I wanted to make. The track thing is actually new to me.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Combat Pretzel posted:

I forgot the point I wanted to make.

“Communities tend to complain about the past, not the present — even more so for pre-release games” with a mix of “facts often get in the way of a good outrage”.

…or some such. :v:

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Alright, I'll leave that track remark out of the next version.

Regarding physics: I'm not into that whole discussion, it never leads anywhere and with FFB added the whole thing becomes so much about subjective feel anyway. Not that Burnout isn't clearly Arcade, some objective statements are possible in this world, but... you know.

Personally I find for most of these games there are car/track combinations where I think it's the best thing ever and other combinations where it feels like crap.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
I get the thing about physics, but certain parts of the community keep pretending they're almost more like Trackmania than anything real world based.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Combat Pretzel posted:

I forgot the point I wanted to make. The track thing is actually new to me.

The sim racing community is a bunch of assholes is what you wanted to say. I'll never understand this desire to be a warrior for one sim and one sim only.

bloops
Dec 31, 2010

Thanks Ape Pussy!

I said come in! posted:

The sim racing community is a bunch of assholes is what you wanted to say. I'll never understand this desire to be a warrior for one sim and one sim only.

The sim community is general is very clique-ish. But yea PCARS is generating an abnormal about of criticism for whatever reason. Like it would kill these guys to have high hopes on a game that's been played regularly for years now. PCARS isn't exactly an unknown quantity.

Boar It
Jul 29, 2011

Mesmerizing eyebrows is my specialty

I said come in! posted:

The sim racing community is a bunch of assholes is what you wanted to say. I'll never understand this desire to be a warrior for one sim and one sim only.

One of the best things to do in iRacing after a wreck is to say "It's just a videogame". But yeah, PCARS looks like it could be fun, too bad games nowadays don't have demos.

Jehde
Apr 21, 2010

holocaust bloopers posted:

The sim community is general is very clique-ish. But yea PCARS is generating an abnormal about of criticism for whatever reason. Like it would kill these guys to have high hopes on a game that's been played regularly for years now. PCARS isn't exactly an unknown quantity.

I think it has to do with how long it's been in development. Plus I hear they keep changing things, sometimes for worse, sometimes for better. It seems though that the longer they take releasing it, the more flak they get. I hope they release it soon so it can finally be put to rest.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

PCARS has been getting poo poo on from the very beginning. In its current state the sim is amazing, it's just getting delayed due to licensing issues.

Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist

Torabi posted:

One of the best things to do in iRacing after a wreck is to say "It's just a videogame". But yeah, PCARS looks like it could be fun, too bad games nowadays don't have demos.

Please tell me you've recorded some of the better reactions this gets.

Boar It
Jul 29, 2011

Mesmerizing eyebrows is my specialty
Sadly I haven't. But there has been plenty of people explaining to me why iRacing is not a videogame, it's A SIMULATOR. Yes, a videogame that simulates racing. They didn't like my response.

Mr SoupTeeth
Jan 16, 2015
What's the SimGoon verdict on the Thrustmaster T300RS? I haven't had a wheel since the original PC Microsoft force feedback wheel so I'm completely out of touch with the modern offerings. Fanatec's CSL seat/GT3 wheel bundle is the right price, but I've heard less than stellar things about their reliability and longevity. PS4 compatibility isn't essential, but if I'm going to spend half a grand on wheel I'd like it to be Gran Turismo 7 ready for when that comes out sometime in the next 12 years (with most of the car lineup still lifted from GT4 of course).

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Torabi posted:

Sadly I haven't. But there has been plenty of people explaining to me why iRacing is not a videogame, it's A SIMULATOR. Yes, a videogame that simulates racing. They didn't like my response.

I guess whatever helps them justify all of the money they have poured into iRacing. I mean I have put a couple hundred dollars into iRacing as well, but it's still a video game.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
So I'm looking into the availability of RBR and apparently you can get a digital copy here. However I found some forum posts questioning the legality of them selling the game. Still, unless they hacked in some kind of DRM you might not care either way.

OhsH
Jan 12, 2008

I said come in! posted:

I guess whatever helps them justify all of the money they have poured into iRacing. I mean I have put a couple hundred dollars into iRacing as well, but it's still a video game.

Ive put too much money in this game to actually think about iracing as anything other than a good waste of my time and i havent ran an offical race in months.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
iRacing is the one I haven't tried out yet because of the time and money commitment and my inability do deal with the combination of racing pressure and people taking that stuff very very seriously. I'd be eternally afraid of accidentally bumping into someone :(

Is there a sizeable goon community doing some more laid back racing?

Nerdrock
Jan 31, 2006

GhostDog posted:

iRacing is the one I haven't tried out yet because of the time and money commitment and my inability do deal with the combination of racing pressure and people taking that stuff very very seriously. I'd be eternally afraid of accidentally bumping into someone :(

Is there a sizeable goon community doing some more laid back racing?

There's a gooncar league that runs roughly weekly posted somewhere.

I'm the same way though. I've been on iRacing for like 3 years now and I've run maybe less than 10 actual races because I'm flat out scared of being considered as retarded as half the people I've raced against in those 10 races. In most of those too my heart rate gets going so high at the start I wind up missing a shift or doing something to warrant the title of retard before the first lap is over.

It's also nice to Ghost in some actual races, where you can pretend compete with people without actually messing them up. I've drank some beers and followed Largepotato around a few races and enjoyed myself.

Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist

Y'all need to smoke a bowl before you race. Get those jitters out.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Driving around at 20 mph going WOAHWOAHWOAH

OhsH
Jan 12, 2008

GhostDog posted:

Driving around at 20 mph going WOAHWOAHWOAH

Not in my case :smugmrgw:

Norns
Nov 21, 2011

Senior Shitposting Strategist

GhostDog posted:

Driving around at 20 mph going WOAHWOAHWOAH

Exactly the opposite for me. I'm terrible racing sober, I can't relax enough to focus on my line.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Back in the day a friend and me where stopped at a traffic light in the dead of the night and at some point he turned to me and asked me how long we've been sitting there, listening to music, watching the light change color. I couldn't say.

MisterZimbu
Mar 13, 2006
Project CARS is by far the most realistic sim I've ever played - mostly because its career is smart enough to say, "you suck way too much to even think about leaving karts"

But seriously, does the AI cheat real bad via rubberbanding or something? The other karts fly past me on the straights.

GhostDog posted:

iRacing is the one I haven't tried out yet because of the time and money commitment and my inability do deal with the combination of racing pressure and people taking that stuff very very seriously. I'd be eternally afraid of accidentally bumping into someone :(

Is there a sizeable goon community doing some more laid back racing?

If you stick to road racing the drivers are quite a bit more relaxed when it comes to incidents, so long as you aren't completely stupid.

Oval racers are all assholes though.

OhsH
Jan 12, 2008

MisterZimbu posted:



But seriously, does the AI cheat real bad via rubberbanding or something? The other karts fly past me on the straights.


you noticing them carrying more RPMs than you through the corners?if it's a direct drive kart it wouldn't have as much power in the lower RPM band, right? so if you can keep the RPMs up through the turn you're getting back on the power faster, iirc.


i'd assume it's just them holding more RPMs through the corners but i've only driven karts in sims so :nsa:

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

GhostDog posted:

Driving around at 20 mph going WOAHWOAHWOAH
Those driving RPG servers in LFS...

MisterZimbu posted:

But seriously, does the AI cheat real bad via rubberbanding or something? The other karts fly past me on the straights.
AI has guiding data telling it the best line, and works on a simpler tire model (otherwise it'd bog your CPU down with lots of AI drivers). Probably one side effect of the two? I don't know much about AI, I usually just hotlap in PCARS or play online the rare occasions there's actually some hosts.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Feb 26, 2015

osker
Dec 18, 2002

Wedge Regret

MisterZimbu posted:

Project CARS is by far the most realistic sim I've ever played - mostly because its career is smart enough to say, "you suck way too much to even think about leaving karts"

But seriously, does the AI cheat real bad via rubberbanding or something? The other karts fly past me on the straights.


If you stick to road racing the drivers are quite a bit more relaxed when it comes to incidents, so long as you aren't completely stupid.

Oval racers are all assholes though.

I spent months in rookie oval, the weekend I bound a button to mute voip for all players I got out of rookie in 10 races.

Edit:
I’m writing to inform you that another member has filed a protest against you for what they believe was a violation of the iRacing.com sporting code. I want to stress that this is merely a notification that a protest has been filed, and that no decision has been made on the merit of the protest. Let me also assure you that, in the vast majority of cases, the issues surrounding protests are addressed by a combination of communication, coaching and other suggestions to one or both parties involved.

Because of this:

osker fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Feb 26, 2015

Ringo Star Get
Sep 18, 2006

JUST FUCKING TAKE OFF ALREADY, SHIT
They literally watch NASCAR, see the fights and the drama, and expect it and want it so bad in every oval race.

I've only done a small amount of oval racing and my time there cemented me staying with Road Courses only. Heck in one road race I commented about my pace being a bit off and in a flash people were saying "check out my setup!!"

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
New OP proposal incoming.

Any help would be appreciated.

I think there should be one Nascar game in there. What would that be? And what about the Codemasters F1 games, do they deserve a mention?

Any tech wizards have something to say about my undertanding of FFB?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
CONTENTS:

- Introduction
- Current Sims
- Older Sims
- Wheels
- Force Feedback
- Other Hardware
- Would you like to know more?
- Mods




So what's the difference between sims and other racing games?

Extremely broadly speaking:

- A more authentic driving and/or racing experience with cars feeling as true to their real counterparts as possible, on accurate representations of real world tracks.

Chances are you're particularly interested in a comparison to console sims, i.e. Forza or Gran Turismo:

- No singleplayer progression or career mode (worth mentioning).
- There's only setup, no tuning/parts swapping.
- Less cars in general and an emphasis on actual race cars (in the official content, mods are of course another matter).
- Designed to be driven with wheels, controller support might exist but is often (always?) a subpar experience.

A personal opinion about physics: I don't talk much about the physics of any of the sims listed here, the reason being that for any sim you'll find people calling it the best thing ever as well as people calling it utter crap because this other thing is obviously the best ever based on some poorly understood dev posts as well and/or the fact that <real driver> totally does not get paid to endorse this product. The truth is none of these games truly recreate real world physics, they all have different philosophies on how to approach a reasonable approximation. Within some basic criteria the way they present the driving/racing experience qualifies all of them as sims in my opinion, and the only way to really find out if you'll like how one of them feels is to try it out. Spent time looking at the features and get a demo if possible, don't waste your time reading endless discussions about physics. I found that for pretty much any sim, once I set up my wheel correctly and gave it some time to get into the particular language of the game, I was able to find cars and tracks I love to drive.






"Current" is a flexible definition, some of these have started many years ago, some might be based on older tech, for some "being in development" seems a bit of an eternal state.

In alphabetical order:




Assetto Corsa

http://www.assettocorsa.net
Developer: Kunos Simulazioni

Assetto Corsa left early access in December 2014 but is still very much a work in progress. The AI especially leaves a lot to be desired, so this is more of a driving and not a racing simulator right now. AC prides itself on highly accurate tracks and in general the official content (with few exceptions) is spot on and done when released. Currently there is no weather or night racing, track conditions can be selected but are fixed for the duration of the race. It's highly moddable and currently seems to attract the biggest community, though many tracks right now are somewhat half-assed ports from older sims.

Available on Steam




iRacing

http://www.iracing.com
Developer: iRacing.com Motorsport Simulations

iRacing bills itself as a subscription-based service, as such it comes with high costs for the subscription itself as well as for content packs, but if you're serious about a proper online racing simulation it's really your only choice. Has basically every feature on the list, weather, dynamic grip buildup, night racing, whatever you want. This is as close as you can get to being a real race car driver. The downside is you have to deal with people who really want to pretend being real race car drivers. The business model of course prohibits any real modding.

Available on Steam




Project CARS

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/
Developer: Slightly Mad Studios

To be released in April. Slightly Mad Studios previously developed the "Need for Speed: Shift" series under the boot of Electronic Arts, for Project CARS they went their own way with a self-funded/crowd-funded model. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous, certainly the prettiest rain and night racing you've ever seen in a game. Has an actual career mode, something you don't see too often in PC sims or as an afterthought at best. So far no word on moddability, but not much is expected on that front. Slightly Mad promises to keep expanding the game with DLC though, ultimately that's of course going to be a matter of sales.

Available on Steam




RaceRoom Racing Experience

http://game.raceroom.com/
Developer: Sector3 Studios (formerly SimBin)

Developed by former SimBin people who did some of the best sims last generation on the isiMotor2 (i.e. rFactor1) engine, RaceRoom is built on their own engine and is Free-To-Play with purchasable content packs generally build around specific racing series. Reception initially was mixed but has been improving, there seems to be no doubt though that if nothing else it has the best sound out there.

Available on Steam




rFactor2

http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/
Developer: Image Space Incorporated

The sim with a pedigree. rFactor 1 (or rather it's underlying isiMotor2 engine) was the platform for years. rFactor2 started development in 2009 and had some trouble getting off the ground but has been improving quite a lot recently. The official content varies in quality and is very much in flux, not the least because the long development time means rFactor2 is a bit in a state of catch-up in terms of technology, at least graphically. rFactor2 features "real road" technology, i.e. rubber/grip accumulates dynamically on the racing line. Weather as well as night racing are in but still being tweaked. Highly moddable but the community hasn't embraced it as much as rFactor 1 yet due to the slow/shaky start.

Available on the official site, a move to Steam is planned.




(Game) Stock Car Extreme

http://game-stockcar.com.br/?lang=en
Developer: Reiza Studios

Game Stock Car Extreme (recently renamed to Stock Car Extreme after coming to Steam) is a sim about brazilian stock car racing - wait, don't go! First off, this is not oval racing, it's more like V8 supercars on tracks you never heard of aside from Interlagos. Probably the last hurrah of the isiMotor2 engine and without a doubt the farthest it's ever been pushed, Stock Car Extreme is considered (by all of the two dozen people who gave it a try) to be a fantastic offline racing experience and probably the most complete package you can get right now, only missing weather. Since it's isiMotor2 it's very moddable and you can find a lot of the rFactor1 tracks converted to GSCE. Included in the low price are some other series, like for example the probably best F1 experience you can have right now provided you hunt down enough F1 tracks.

Available on Steam






Technology improves, not only in terms of presentation but also in the kind of physics a home PC can handle. Nevertheless most of these should still drive very well and you might find cars, tracks or series you like that you can't find in current sims. Some might be added more for their place in racing sim history.

From newer to older:




Race07

[no official site]
Developer: SimBin Studios

Released 2007 by SimBin - well regarded for their previous work on GT Legends, GTR and GTR2 - Race07 is one of the many games developed on the isiMotor2 (i.e. rFactor1) engine. Race07's features good racing AI and a host of expansion packs turning it into a pretty comprehensive racing collection. A collection of Race07 including some of the expansion content was released under the name Race Injection, however it's missing some beloved cars and tracks and is thus considered inferior despite slight upgrades.

Available on Gamersgate. Apparently SimBin games vanished from Steam at some point.




netKar Pro

http://www.netkar-pro.com/main/
Developer: Kunos Simulazioni

Released in 2006 netKar Pro had a bad start and it took a full two years until the release of version 1.1 that solved most issues. Still, despite being well received for its driving, nKpro kept on being controversial due to Kunos' development and communication approach. The last update was 2011, since Kunos has been working on Assetto Corsa since then no further updates are to be expected.

Available on the official site.




GTR 2 – FIA GT Racing Game

[no official site]
Developer: SimBin Studios

Another SimBin isiMotor2 joint, GTR2 from 2006 is one of the classics of sim racing. The emphasis lies on GT/Touring Car racing but some open wheelers are included as well. A kinda sorta remake of it made it to Race07 in the from of the GTR Evolution expansion, but I think the consensus is that GTR2 is superior.

Available on Gamersgate. Also not on Steam currently.




rFactor

http://rfactor.net/web/rf1/
Developer: Image Space Incorporated

rFactor was released in 2005 and became the racing sim platform for years, used for several commercial products and approximately one bazillion mods. The visuals are obviously showing it's age, the UI is archaic as is the configuration, but in terms of content it'll keep you busy for ages.

Available on the official site, a move to Steam is planned and already greenlit.




Richard Burns Rally

[no official site]
Developer: Warthog Games

If you're looking for good rallying, there is only RBR. Released in 2004, there hasn't been a good rally sim since (and arguably also not before). But RBR is here for you. RBR is eternal. RBR is also very very hard. The graphics might be dated but the rallying is still top notch. The community keeps the game alive through a mod pack called RSRBR (see here), although RBR wasn't developed with modding in mind so everything is kinda terribly hacked in. Luckily, since it's all in one pack, the installation is relatively straightforward and you should probably not play RBR without it.

Available here. The game was discontinued long ago though so the legality of them selling it is at least questionable. Other than that you'd have to hunt down a used disc, they show up on Amazon from time to time.




Grand Prix Legends

[no official site]
Developer: Papyrus Design Group

If you're talking about a true classic of a game genre, this sim from 1998 is it. GPL has a bit of an unfair reputation as being unrealistically difficult to drive due to the demo car being set up idiotically and the full release not allowing any aids during actual races which made it hard for people to ease into the sim. Not that it isn't really hard, just not undriveably so. GPL has a surprising amount of mods as well as a big unofficial patch (start here).

Available only used.




Grand Prix 2

[no official site]
Developer: Microprose / Geoff Crammond

This 1996 release acts a stand-in for Geoff Crammond's whole Grand Prix Series (1992, 1996, 2000, 2002). I selected number 2 because while 3 and 4 are better games they are iterations and Grand Prix 2 stands out most as a classic in the context of its time. This is one you probably don't actually want to play today. Grand Prix 4... maybe?

Available only used.






You'll probably want a force feedback wheel sooner or later. If you do so, make sure you have the space to set it up right. You don't need to dedicate a whole room to your racing endeavours, but whereever you set up shop you should be able to sit in, well, a comfortable driving position.

If you're looking for an entry-level force feedback wheel under 200 dollars your best and maybe only bet is the used market. The wheels always recommended to look for are:
- Logitech Driving Force GT
- Logitech Driving Force Pro

In the medium range up to 500 dollars you have:
- Logitech G27, G25
- Fanatec CSR, CSR Elite, Porsche
- Thrustmaster T500, T300
In the case of Fanatec you're buying individual components, i.e. wheel, pedals, shifter.
Don't underestimate the value of good pedals. If you can get ones with a load cell brake pedal. And of course plastic just doesn't feel right.

High end, up to a 1000 dollars:
- Fanatec CSW

Beyond that you go into direct drive wheels, which are a whole other level but the cheapest right now I think is the Accuforce for 1750 dollars, without pedals. So yeah.






If you spend god knows how much on a wheel it's a good idea to also spend some time digging into how to set it up correctly. Every sim handles FFB differently so there's sadly no all-in-one solution to be found, a little time investment is necessary. Plus you might end up having to open the odd INI or CFG file...



Here is a guide for rFactor2, but the general gist of it applies to other sims as well. I'll try to give you a short version of the important points, from my admittedly still very limited understanding of the subject:

Clipping

The big one. Damper and Spring might be debatable as personal preference, but clipping really isn't. In short, your wheel clips when the game demands more force to be put out than the motor can handle. You end up with a constant (maximum) force and any information the game tries to give you beyond that is simply lost, cut off. Ideally you would never want that to happen, however if you turn down the FFB strength in the game to such a level that it never ever clips, not even when you smash over a curb at high speeds, then the force range left for normal driving situations might end up being very small and the resulting FFB feeling very weak.

In order to dial this in you need an app for the sim that shows you the forces, this generally comes as a pedals app with four moving columns which show clutch, brake, throttle and the current force feedback state. Then it's a matter of driving around adjusting force feedback strength so that it doesn't "get into the red" too much.

Some sims allow you to set FFB per car, which is ideal since different cars have different FFB levels depending on their physics setup. For example, the range of FFB strength leading to approximately the same amount of clipping in AC is 60% to 90% for my wheel. You might also want to deliberately drive with clipping for a while to be able to recognize how it feels, this is going to help you dial in FFB in sims that don't have a way of measuring it.

Degrees of Rotation

In newer sims you generally only have to make sure the rotation is set to the same in your driver, on your wheel and in the sim. That's probably 900° these days. The sim itself will then take care to set the actual degree of rotation to what's appropriate for the car. If these values don't correspond, things might feel weird. Some older sims however might not work well with 900°, in some you might want to set the steering lock manually... at which point I'd have to trust you know how to use google.

Deadzone

Most (affordable) wheels due to their construction have a certain deadzone before FFB picks up, making them feel somewhat dead if only little forces act on the car. Newer sims have a workaround for that by way of a minimum force setting. This just means small amounts of force that your wheel couldn't have produced get increased enough to overcome the deadzone so they don't get lost.

Damper & Spring

As far as I've been able to suss out these are only to add constant forces to the wheel, spring being a return-to-center force, damper being a resistance-to-turning force. There is some personal preference here and for games without a minimum force setting damper might help with the deadzone feeling, but ultimately they do mask some of the dynamic FFB actually coming from the car with fixed forces not coming from the car, so I've been setting them to OFF whenever I seem them. Be it in the driver, on my wheel, or in the game.






HELP?






(copied from old OP)

http://www.iracing.com/inracingnews/ : Best place for general news in the simracing world. Very iRacing centric however.

http://www.insidesimracing.tv/ : Less iRacing centric (but still owned more or less by iracing) and an excellent place to find hardware/software reviews and videos. This is probably the best website to start at.

http://www.racedepartment.com/ : A more eurocentric and less iRacing focused news source. This is an excellent start for those interested in finding a league.

http://racesimcentral.com/ : once the old stalwart but has run into trouble over the years. Still an excellent news source.






HELP?

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021
Yeah where the hell is LFS

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GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Care to write a four sentence paragraph about it? :)

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