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Promises of a new tire model, new cars including a VW Scirocco, and three more tracks. That was promised for around three years ago. Delays are fine, but this is stretching it. What makes it worse is that the head team guy makes the other content depending on the tire model which doesn't go anywhere. There's other companies making hardcore simulations, and they have or are delivering better since quite a while. So people flock to that.
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Dec 3, 2012 12:42
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They may as well just stop working on LFS and create something completely new from scratch. By the end of next year, everyone will have moved onto the next generation of racing sims that are going to be far more realistic than anything out right now currently.
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Dec 3, 2012 15:53
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I said come in! posted:They may as well just stop working on LFS and create something completely new from scratch. By the end of next year, everyone will have moved onto the next generation of racing sims that are going to be far more realistic than anything out right now currently.
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Dec 3, 2012 16:20
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That's pretty debatable. There's plenty of folks in the nKp and rF camps that may want to challenge your opinion. In the end, it's subjective. A lot of a virtual car's felt behavior gets attributed to the tire model, even tho the FFB is responsible for it (which also feeds back into the tire model to some degree, depending on how you react to the generated FFB). What should be making you to think for a minute is why current models seem to be so CPU-heavy compared to LFS. PCARS spends a drat lot of CPU in-game on the tires, while rF2 spends a metric shitton of CPU time on creating lookup tables offline. God knows what AC does, because they keep delaying their drat techdemo. From what I know, LFS uses a brush tire model, which is what everyone tries to get away from. Even the LFS devs (pretend to).
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Dec 4, 2012 02:07
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God I really want that tech demo for AC already. I hope they can launch it this month, but i'm almost 100% positive it won't happen.
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Dec 4, 2012 02:09
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Combat Pretzel posted:What should be making you to think for a minute is why current models seem to be so CPU-heavy compared to LFS. PCARS spends a drat lot of CPU in-game on the tires, while rF2 spends a metric shitton of CPU time on creating lookup tables offline. God knows what AC does, because they keep delaying their drat techdemo. I also loved the fact that on a lot of servers you could be racing and if someone had a decent setup more often than not they'd be willing to share it with you. Just took a few clicks and bam, you were on a pretty level playing field.
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Dec 4, 2012 02:13
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Does anyone here have any good recommendations for a racing wheel under $100? I don't play a lot of sim racing games; just sort of dipping my toe in the waters. Right now I'm playing a lot of F1 2012, which I know isn't super simy but I enjoy it for what it is so far playing with all the aides off. That and Race 07 are all I've really messed with, but am really looking forward to some of the other SimBin stuff I see coming up. Is there anything serviceable that is cheap enough?
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Dec 7, 2012 20:15
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Logitech Driving Force GT wheel is what I got, and is in that price range.  It's a great entry level wheel for those who want to get serious about racing sims, but don't play them that much.
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Dec 7, 2012 20:26
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Logitech sells the Driving Force GT wheel for around $100. It has force feedback, 900 degree steering, and pedals (that apparently aren't really great but still more fun than a gamepad!). It's been around for a long time and it's probably compatible with most games since Logitech wheels are so common. The only wheels I've ever used though were an ancient Sidewinder and then a Fanatec so I'm not really knowledgable on all the other stuff in between that. I think for really cheap I'd almost prefer an inexpensive wheel with no force feedback and some nice pedals but I doubt anyone makes a setup like that.
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Dec 7, 2012 20:38
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Don't get one with no force feedback, FFB is pretty important. The DFGT gives you everything you need to get started.
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Dec 7, 2012 20:43
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The Driving Force GT seems neat, but the lack of paddle shifters seems like a glaring omission, isn't it? Especially if you're interested in F1 sims.
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Dec 7, 2012 20:45
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Paddle Shifters are on there, but they suck.
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Dec 7, 2012 20:47
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Some people like the actual wheel/FFB part of the DFGT more than they like the G27. It's true, though, the shifters and pedals are pretty lovely, but they definitely get the job done and can be used competitively with no problems.
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Dec 7, 2012 21:17
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Right now, I'm using the X and A buttons as shifters so really anything seems like an improvement at this point. And if all else fails and I hate them, I bet I could just map those to buttons anyway. Looking at this one right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Driving-Force-GT-Wheel-PC-PS3-941-000020-/110837862553#vi-content Are the paddle shifters those on the top of the inner part of the wheel?
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Dec 7, 2012 21:29
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Space Cob posted:Right now, I'm using the X and A buttons as shifters so really anything seems like an improvement at this point. And if all else fails and I hate them, I bet I could just map those to buttons anyway. The Paddles are two rectangular buttons located on the back of the wheel, much like actual paddles. EDIT: There you go 
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Dec 7, 2012 21:31
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FWIW, I pulled my literally cobweb-covered Driving Force, purchased by my dad for Gran Turismo 3, out of the basement and was stunned to see it worked just fine on GRID and F1 2012 (once I installed the proper drivers, which I was similarly surprised to see work on Windows 8). I love this thing. Check out the giant flappy paddles  (not so much in love with the 180 degrees of rotation, but hey, figure if I felt the need to crank this thing any further, I'm probably not doing a good job racing) abraham linksys fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 21:37
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You can also get a Momo, for like 40 bucks on Ebay. Paddle shifters, a sequential shifter. Only has about 300° of motion and not great pedals, but is a really good introductory low price wheel.
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Dec 7, 2012 21:50
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HAIL LORD ZLATAN posted:The Paddles are two rectangular buttons located on the back of the wheel, much like actual paddles. Oh okay. Not sure how I missed that before. Thanks! Billy the Mountain posted:You can also get a Momo, for like 40 bucks on Ebay. Paddle shifters, a sequential shifter. Only has about 300° of motion and not great pedals, but is a really good introductory low price wheel. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-MOMO-Racing-Force-Feedback-steering-wheel-/130812439072?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1e75076a20 Hmm...tempting. Significantly cheaper too, which I have to admit is a bit of a big deal for me. Tough call. Space Cob fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 21:58
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real_scud posted:The sad thing is, the LFS tire-model is just about the best drat tire model in any game. If they kept updating it it could've gotten even more popular cause it does MP racing so goddamned well. I miss LFS. It was such a flexible sim. You could cover so many sims with just LFS. MP was really good too. They could pump so much life into the game if they let the community make custom tracks. Keep the cars locked down and just let the community make 'maps'. They planned on opening up tracks to the community after S3. But gently caress that ain't ever happening. I still dream of driving the 'ring with like 30 other cars ranging from hatches, to caterhams, to open wheeled, to touring cars. I'm sad now.
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Dec 7, 2012 22:10
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I dream of the day we can get a sim that captures the 24 hours of Nurburgring with 200 cars on track.
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Dec 7, 2012 22:19
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Ziploc posted:I miss LFS. It was such a flexible sim. You could cover so many sims with just LFS. I miss our days of our own goon LFS server and regular races  LFS was my first sim and I still love it, but it's basically done and gone at this point.
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Dec 7, 2012 22:52
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I'm hoping everyone moves on to pCARS when it comes out. Following the development quite close and it seems to be on the right track to being an awesome simulator. Not to mention its not only the best looking graphically racing sim but one of the best looking games on PC with everything cranked up.
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Dec 7, 2012 23:32
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I'm hoping that Assetto Corsa owns as much as it seems like it's going to. Shouldn't it have been released by now, anyway?
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Dec 7, 2012 23:53
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Keeps getting pushed back. There was supposed to be a tech demo by now, which also keeps being pushed back.
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Dec 8, 2012 00:03
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An Enormous Boner posted:I'm hoping that Assetto Corsa owns as much as it seems like it's going to. The tech demo was suppose to have been out weeks ago, and now the devs want the full game out in March 2013. No way that is going to happen though. More like about September 2013 is more realistic.
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Dec 8, 2012 00:03
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I said come in! posted:The tech demo was suppose to have been out weeks ago, and now the devs want the full game out in March 2013. No way that is going to happen though. More like about September 2013 is more realistic. I think the rF2 and AC devs made some secret deal to give each other another half of a year or more to develop their sims. 
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Dec 8, 2012 00:17
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An Enormous Boner posted:Some people like the actual wheel/FFB part of the DFGT more than they like the G27. It's true, though, the shifters and pedals are pretty lovely, but they definitely get the job done and can be used competitively with no problems. As far as the paddles go, there is kits on ebay to improve upon them. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Floppy-Paddle-Shifters-for-Logitech-Driving-Force-GT-/121032689131?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1c2e1c45eb http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PlayStati...=item27cd64b83c ^^^ That one looks cool as hell. If I had a DF GT I'd buy that one for sure ^^^ I said come in! posted:I dream of the day we can get a sim that captures the 24 hours of Nurburgring with 200 cars on track. Falken fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Dec 8, 2012 |
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Dec 8, 2012 00:57
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One week ago I decided to finally do a search on racing simulators and find some knowledgeable individuals who can help me build a simulator then help direct me to where I need to go to start racing from a computer instead of club racing with my own car. For me, my love for racing simulators started at least 4 years ago when a good friend of mine let me drive his Virtual GT simulator. I can’t tell you how much I fell in love with this thing. For the next 4 years, I have been trying to find a way to purchase a Virtual GT but as you may know, they are $25,000 to $40,000. I also looked for a used one but none seem to exist. Anyways, I am never going to have even half that to spend on a simulation machine so what is the point. But from listening to you all over the last 3 days (that is how long it has taken me to read this thread) I feel like there may be a cheaper alternative that may just be as good. I would gladly pay up to $5k if I could get 80-90% to the Virtual GT. So first I would like to ask if anyone of you (Lockmart Lawndart, I said come in!, An Enormous Boner, Brownie, real_scud, Combat Pretzel, Nerdrock, CactusWeasle, Falken, Dudley, Largepotato, Billy the Mountain, or anyone else) have you ever driven the Virtual GT (or anything like it)? And if so, how close is your current configuration to this setup? I am not talking about the motion system really… I am sure this is the reason for the huge price and I can live without it. I am more interested in the realism in steering, shifter, pedal feel, graphics, audio, seat position, etc… When I race the Virtual GT it sounds louder and meaner than my own car. It totally convinces my brain that I am at the track in a car way too expensive for my budget. It is amazing the way it actually rumbles you in the seat, just idling. So I am putting together a build list and need some help. Here is what I got from you all so far: Good wheel – G25, G27, DFGT Shifter – Frex Shift+, Clubsport Shifter Pedals – Franatec Clubsport Pedal, CSR So what about the computer and specifications? Audio or Graphic Card? Screen setup? Audio equipment? What am I not thinking of? How would you design a new system if you ran into some extra cash? Or what is on your wish list? I am not a IT guy so please keep it simple as I want to race, not spend hours working on poo poo. I still am unclear about the actual software/system. If you sign up for iRacing for example, do you need a program or software or is this included with the purchase? From everything that has been said up to now on this thread, I guess I am leaning toward iRacing or maybe RF2 (beta version). Again, I want something simple that I can start racing on immediately and wouldn’t mind paying a little more as my time is limited somewhat and I hate coming home and working on my computer after sitting in front of one all day. The thought of constantly updating and doing patches to make everything work makes me want to stick a fork in my eye! Anyway, sorry for being so long winded but I am excited about this new hobby.
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Dec 8, 2012 18:16
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Can't tell you anything about input devices, I've only ever owned a MOMO wheel (which is pretty lovely) and a G27. You'll definitely want Clubsport Pedals. While I personally couldn't convince myself shelling out money for these yet, they have one critical advantage over virtually all other pedals, and that's a loadcell instead of a spring in the brake pedal. So if you want realism, you want a pedal simulating a hydraulic stop, i.e. the Clubsport Pedals. As far as the computer hardware goes, you might want to consider to prop up your budget by another 1000 bucks or so, to be on the safe side, and go with a triple-screen system. Most of the new and upcoming games seem to have varying levels of direct support for such configurations. In regards to the games themselves, it's all subjective. All the new games have pretty detailed simulation physics these days, but everyone has different idea on how to tune these physics models and how the virtual cars should feel. Personally, I've spent my most time on PCARS, so I'm pretty biased for it. It isn't wrong to get an S2 license to LFS, if you haven't tried it yet. LFS is a popular classic option, but its development stopped almost in its tracks a few years ago, altho there have been minor fixes and additions lately after a long time of nothing, but the promised new tire model and content still hasn't been seen in over three years. The current upcoming games are PCARS, rFactor2 and Assetto Corsa. PCARS runs sort of an open development model, where you could "buy" yourself access to it for monthly or weekly builds, depending on the amount (it's currently closed off, but it appears there'll be upcoming windows to sign up). rF2 runs a semi-open beta, where you have to "preorder" the game to gain access. AC promised sort of a beta for a while, but it's getting delayed all the time. Other classic options are rFactor1 and GTR2, I've barely played the two, so I can't say anything about them.
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Dec 8, 2012 20:22
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To answer your iRacing question : the software is included with the service. You sign up, give them money, and download the client, which keeps everything up to date for you. It's a much slower to start option than just grabbing say pCars or rFactor2 and popping into an F1 car and going nuts. If you go iRacing, be prepared to spend time working your way up through the ranks from mx-5s to Skip Barber cars, etc. It's also by far the most expensive in terms of software (monthly fees plus buying cars and tracks separately). iRacers tend to feel it's worth it, and I agree. The saying is that you look at it 1 of 2 ways : it's either a prohibitively expensive video game, or a great value of a hobby. For your rig, I'd start looking at reviews of some pre-built setups and basing my budgeting from there. For your desktop PC to drive the thing, basically a 1k budget will get you something that works pretty well right now, and will run iRacing flawlessly. I'd personally put closer to 2k into the PC to guarantee that it's more capable of running future sims. My PC was maybe 1200 bucks 4-5 years ago, and still plays iRacing well on medium settings, but it struggles on stuff like pCars and rFactor2 right now. I'd start with generalized budgets for the important components, and adjusting from there based on further recommendations? 2k for a desktop PC? 1500 for screens / mounts? 1000 for cockpit, G27, and clubsports? something like this? gently caress, i don't know. 500 for incidentals (cables, nice speakers, a year of iracing service and some tracks and cars, random poo poo, padding for other budgets?)
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Dec 8, 2012 22:04
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On the Clubsport Pedals: The resistance in a clubsport pedal is still provided by a spring. The load cell just measures how much force is being applied, it doesn't provide any resistance itself. In the first generation of Clubsports the resistance came from a spring combined with a small chamber filled with a foam tube (that was replaceable). In this new generation the foam has been exchanged with a oil dampening chamber that's meant to dampen the movement of the pedal, which is neat (and probably feels very realistic) but ultimately it's a dampener for how far the pedal moves, its not part of the load-cell construction or indicative of the actual input you're getting. What the load cell does is replace a potentiometer that would otherwise be measuring the position of the pedal. The disadvantage then is that your input is completely dependent on the throw of the pedals, whereas with a load-cell you can adjust it such that even at a fully depressed position a further application of force can be detected by the pedal (despite no movement). Load cells do not provide a necessarily more accurate or realistic experience, it's their implementation that matters. In fact, if use a long throw on your brake and a low force setting on the load cell it will make no difference if its a potentiometer or a load cell. In the case of the first generation of pedals it makes literally no difference, in the case of V2 there's a slight difference since the hydraulics will slow the rate at which you can change the position of the pedal but not the impulse. I personally think that while the Clubsports are way too expensive for what they provide, it's definitely the most realistic experience possible IF you get the V2's and use a throw that's short enough you need to apply some additional force at the fully depressed position to reach 100% input. My advice to you Leadcar50 is the following: Set aside $1k for your PC (actually $800 is enough if you're patient for deals to pop up, use Part Picker and this thread) For instance a build like this (which is just slightly better than my current computer) would be able to run any racing sim out right now on full settings: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/rBOE Note it'd probably end up costing like $1K once you add an HDD and SDD and other silly stuff. Make sure you get a nice monitor. All the amazing peripherals and PC hardware won't mean anything if you're using a 19" or something with awful colours. When it comes to wheels it's sort of up to you. Logitech provides cheaper, gear driven wheels that are very widely supported and the company has very good support. Fanatec provides expensive belt driven wheels (quieter, "smoother," but also somewhat higher inherent resistance?) but as an owner of one I think they're pretty over priced and often have QA issues. Their support is not as good, and they aren't doing a great job of providing older hardware with the same level of support as you get with Logitech. This is probably the thing you're going to have really investigate yourself if you can. When it comes to games, you seem like you'd probably enjoy iRacing the most just because it's the easiest to get into in terms of effort. Lots of people playing, races happen often etc. Note however that it is expensive, very expensive in fact when compared to other racing games. You'll have to pay for tracks and cars individually (which can cost anywhere from $5-15 or something) and you won't be able to race any car you want right off the bat. I think iRacing is really awful but it is probably the best choice RIGHT NOW if you don't want to struggle with patches or betas. If you're patient, Project Cars is shaping up very nicely and other games like Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2 will be coming out within the next year (or two...) I have literally zero clues when it comes to cockpits, all i know is that my office chair is really really bad for racing.
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Dec 9, 2012 07:21
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If money isn't much of an object, the Clubsport V2 pedals would be great. For a hundred dollars less you can get the CSR elite pedals. It still has a load cell for the brake (not as good I guess) and apparently the clutch feels better on the CSv2 but it's cheaper and feels perfectly fine to me. You can also move the pedals around and you can also get an inversion kit. This gives a realistic feel to the pedals if you don't feel like mounting them somewhere (you can do this too). I don't know if you can take the pedals out of the clubsport v2 or not. On the CSR elite pedals, everything can be disassembled and removed. So you can just take the pedals out, take out the PCB and mount these wherever you want. All you need is that the cables for the pedals reach the PCB and that you can plug in the PS/2 or USB cable to it.
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Dec 9, 2012 07:39
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Going from G25 pedals to Clubsport V1 pedals was probably the most dramatic change for me. It just FELT more immersive, and the ability to set the pressure you apply means you can really tune it what you feel it should be. For GT cars, the Frex Shift+ is just wonderful. When it arrived, I clamped it to my desk and played with it thinking 'ive bought a 200E switch', but after a couple of weeks using it I couldnt live without it now. There are other models available for sequential shifters to suit any preference. I then went from the G25 wheel to a ClubSport wheel with just the Formula rim for now. I only play rFactor 2 and this is quite hit and miss at the moment, but its a very impressive piece of hardware. I still poo poo myself plugging it in every time because I know how Fanatec are for reliability and customer service, but so far I havent had any problems with any of my Fanatec products. Software is very much personal preference. I tried iRacing for a month or so, but I found it full of people who take it way too seriously, and the safety rating is complete bullshit. However, the choices are almost endless - rF1 & 2, AC, GTR3, pCARS - by mid/end 2013 its going to be bloody fantastic
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Dec 9, 2012 16:34
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I think the reliability thing is mostly just a squeaky wheel gets the grease situation. The only problem I ever had with my wheel was when it wouldn't save my settings and the solution was just to update the firmware.
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Dec 9, 2012 16:51
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Cojawfee posted:I think the reliability thing is mostly just a squeaky wheel gets the grease situation. The only problem I ever had with my wheel was when it wouldn't save my settings and the solution was just to update the firmware. I've had my wheel overheat and my pedals break within only a few months of using the GT2 and standard pedals. I've got the CSR pedals now and they are wonderful but there are quite a few QA issues with my GT2. The stitching on the leather is really poor and actually has sharp plastic sticking out of it in the thumb groove. EDIT: And the latest firmware has been shown to decrease max FFB strength by 75% for no real reason.
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Dec 9, 2012 19:22
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CactusWeasle posted:Going from G25 pedals to Clubsport V1 pedals was probably the most dramatic change When I'm driving a modern formula car, I'm actually sad because I can't really use my Frex.
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Dec 9, 2012 21:07
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I thought the CSPs had a foam spring for the initial brake pedal travel and then the loadcell, who actually registers the pressure applied to it?
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Dec 9, 2012 21:09
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Combat Pretzel posted:I thought the CSPs had a foam spring for the initial brake pedal travel and then the loadcell, who actually registers the pressure applied to it? There is still an actual spring on the pedal though.
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Dec 9, 2012 21:12
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Falken posted:I'm glad you're happy with your Frex Shift+ You seemed a little disappointed with it when you first recieved it. I have short-term buyers remorse with everything I buy. It passes quickly. The Frex is really awesome, infact I've ordered a BMW rim for the CSW now because it was too hard to use the Formula rim and the Frex with any GT car.
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Dec 9, 2012 21:28
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Falken posted:Yes, the foam can be replaced with different stiffness pieces, as well as a different metal spacer for varying travel.
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Dec 9, 2012 21:31
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