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Apraxin posted:They do a winner-stays-on format until one guys beats both of the others consecutively. Last one was I think May 2012 when Kyokutenho beat Tochiouzan and Goeido. To add onto this, I think they first draw lots to see who fights first and who waits on the side. If the guy on the east beats both guys, he wins. If the guy on the west wins, he switches to the east and if he beats the other guy, he wins. If he loses, the guy who wins switches to the east and they keep going. They will fight forever and ever until someone finally strings together two matches in a row. edit: in a 4-way tie, I think they would do a 4-man single-elimination tournament, anyone confirm?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:32
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Rigel posted:edit: in a 4-way tie, I think they would do a 4-man single-elimination tournament, anyone confirm?
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Sep 23, 2017 01:21
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What is the level of competitiveness in the lower divisions? It seems like guys can hang in makuuchi in spite of being one dimensional or having significant flaws. Am I just spoiled by only seeing the top division fights?
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Sep 23, 2017 07:46
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Shiroc posted:What is the level of competitiveness in the lower divisions? It seems like guys can hang in makuuchi in spite of being one dimensional or having significant flaws. Am I just spoiled by only seeing the top division fights? I've heard the top of Makushita is pretty tough - largely because you're literally fighting for a salary. If you look at the banzuke you'll see some former sekitori there, struggling to get back up.
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Sep 23, 2017 10:24
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I'm no expert, but from what I've heard: Jonokuchi: The quality is highly variable, you might face a 16 year old kid one day, then face a 23 year old who has years of amateur experience the next. Jonidan: Most of these guys are either still learning the basics, have no real talent, or are in sumo for family or employment related reasons. Anyone who is any good should progress easily. Sandamne: These guys are serious about sumo and have mastered the basics, many people with good amateur careers stall at this rank. Makushita 60-16: This is where it starts getting really difficult, everyone at this level trains as hard as possible, has a lot of natural talent, and is committed to sumo for the long term. Many top level guys spend years in Makushita before progressing. Makushita 15-1: Absolutely brutal. The majority of these guys have Juryo experience and want desperately to get back there. There are usually only 3 or so promotions each basho, so you need to go 7-0 or have several 6-1 and 5-2 results in a row to have a shot, all against extremely tough competition. Juryo: This is a small division, so you'll be facing a lot of people with vastly different records. Nobody wants to be demoted back down to Makushita, and these guys are all experienced professionals who have a lot of support and earn a professional salary. Some people get promoted, have one basho where they go 4-11, then get sent down and are never promoted again. Makucchi: The best of the best, and they get 99% of the attention. You know these guys.
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Sep 23, 2017 13:02
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I assume everyone is caught up by now. What a tournament! 5 days ago I figured this would be anti-climactic and Goeido would just run away with the cup, but he collapsed and Harumafuji dug deep and hung in there, and now day 15's final match is meaningful. If any of the other Yokozuna was still in the tournament, Harumafuji probably would have gone kyujo after his 3rd or 4th kinboshi, and now he might win the tournament.
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Sep 23, 2017 21:24
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I'm not entirely sure why, but I find Goiedo/Takanoiwa a really satisfying match-up. Maybe because they're a similar size and similar build. I know it wasn't deliberate, but Shikimori Inosuke calling those mattas really got the crowd hyped. Rigel posted:What a tournament! I'll be surprised if Harumafuji doesn't clinch it from here - I think Goeido's burst of confidence has dissipated - he looked a bit glum after Harumafuji's win.
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Sep 23, 2017 23:36
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I am absolutely dumbfounded at Goeido's drop off. I guess his confidence was just really wrecked and he couldn't hold it together. I'm really glad to see Haru make a comeback though. He looked so dejected and upset after his terrible early matches that I felt really bad for the guy.
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Sep 24, 2017 03:29
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Someone on sumoforum just posted this in anticipation of the decider, I remembered the fight but I'd no idea it was exactly 10 years ago that (then) Ama was up against Goeido when he won by the rare kimarite 'rear-lifting body slam': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPO39qtj1Vk Konstantin posted:Makushita 15-1: Absolutely brutal. The majority of these guys have Juryo experience and want desperately to get back there. There are usually only 3 or so promotions each basho, so you need to go 7-0 or have several 6-1 and 5-2 results in a row to have a shot, all against extremely tough competition.
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Sep 24, 2017 04:56
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The Sansho have been announced Outstanding Performance Award Takakeisho Fighting Spirit Prize Onosho Asanoyama (if and only if he wins on day 15) Technique Prize (This is the most prestigious prize) Yoshikaze Rigel fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 08:29
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The sumo media are only beginning to celebrate this achievement but this is big. Really, really big. This is something even Hakuho didn't accomplish. Onosho went double-digit in his first 3 appearances in the Makuuchi division.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:48
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Whoever updates the NSK's twitter feed knows what's important: (Spoilered for yusho result!) Elissimpark fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 13:00
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big McCarron
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Sep 24, 2017 13:05
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Ras Het posted:big McCarron That's my new shikona.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:34
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What the hell? The katakana is literally ma-ka-ro-n!
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Sep 24, 2017 13:57
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Wow, Goeido pulled an old school Kisenosato and totally bottled it. Great work by Harumafuji to come back from rumours of being asked to retire after the first few days to a yusho. He's so unfortunate to have had so much of his prime overlapping with Hakuho. I want him to push on and get double digits now. Onosho looks a dead cert to make Ozeki in the future.
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Sep 24, 2017 17:02
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This basho was really surprising. nice ending.
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Sep 24, 2017 20:24
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Harumafuji is the Phoenix. That's got to be the third time I've seen him make a roaring comeback to eke out the yusho.
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Sep 24, 2017 20:46
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I am very disappointed that Ura's rise is stopped by his injury, but Onosho being so drat good is exciting. I want to see more good young guys like him and Asanoyama.
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Sep 25, 2017 06:04
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Fryhtaning posted:Harumafuji is the Phoenix. That's got to be the third time I've seen him make a roaring comeback to eke out the yusho. It was really cool to watch him come back like that. He looked so disappointed after his early struggles. You could just tell he was going to win after forcing the playoff. Goeido was completely rattled.
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Sep 25, 2017 06:13
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I think everyone is pretty stoked on how this basho ended up. It was a bit laggy in the middle, but the last few days were great, with excellent sumo and high stakes. I liked Harumafuji fine before this, but now I respect the hell out of him for showing up, fighting on even though it looked like he was risking intai, and then winning the drat cup. What a hero.
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Sep 25, 2017 07:50
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How closely should I pay attention to Onosho? Is he The Nex Big Thing? And he isn't Mongolian this seems important.
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Sep 26, 2017 13:22
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I forgot the name but wasn't this someone's debut in makunouchi and they posted double digit wins? I'mma follow that dude. If I ever figure out who I'm talking about.
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Sep 26, 2017 13:28
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Asanoyama and Onosho are both very impressive and stand a chance of making ozeki eventually, but it only takes one injury to derail a promising career. Asanoyama will have to fight much tougher opposition next time, and Onosho's impressive basho needs to be looked at with the context of 3 yokozuna and 2 ozeki not competing. For an example of how a very promising young rikishi can be derailed by injury you only have to look at Chiyotairyu. He is only now back to fighting at the level he should be at, and it's taken 3 years.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:12
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Tsaedje posted:...Onosho's impressive basho needs to be looked at with the context of 3 yokozuna and 2 ozeki not competing. Out of curiosity, I had a quick flick through sumo.db, just to compare Onosho's debut with Hakuho's. They both had similar ranks during their first 3 Makuuchi bashos - Onosho has had M14, M6 and M3, while Hakuho had M16, M8 and M3. As you'd expect, Hakuho was shredded by the sanyaku at M3 (Onosho lucked out here, as you mentioned), but managed to get 8-7. I watched the videos for his bouts - I've seen a bunch of his early fights, but you usually only see a random fight from here and there. Watching a whole basho's worth sequentially is amazing - I wish I'd been watching sumo at the time. Seeing him rise to the top must have been really exciting! I don't think Onosho is another Hakuho, but he does seem to be one to watch, especially as he's not a university man.
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Sep 27, 2017 05:03
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Tsaedje posted:For an example of how a very promising young rikishi can be derailed by injury you only have to look at Chiyotairyu. He is only now back to fighting at the level he should be at, and it's taken 3 years. I'm disappointed we aren't likely to see what peak Endo and Oosunaarashi would have looked like if it wasn't for injuries. I was hoping for a poor man's Akebono-Takanohana rivalry between those two in the upper ranks.
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Sep 27, 2017 06:37
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anakha posted:I'm disappointed we aren't likely to see what peak Endo and Oosunaarashi would have looked like if it wasn't for injuries. I was hoping for a poor man's Akebono-Takanohana rivalry between those two in the upper ranks. Sadly I think we'll never see a prime Ura either with that ACL injury this tournament.
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Sep 27, 2017 07:36
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Tsaedje posted:For an example of how a very promising young rikishi can be derailed by injury you only have to look at Chiyotairyu. anakha posted:I'm disappointed we aren't likely to see what peak Endo and Oosunaarashi would have looked like if it wasn't for injuries. Stay Safe, Takayasu. No, safer. Much safer than that. God dammit. 
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Sep 27, 2017 20:32
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Ohh h*ck https://twitter.com/TheSumoSoul/status/913867036148736000
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Sep 29, 2017 22:26
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RIP Ura. By the time he gets back he'll have been superseded by Enho
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Sep 29, 2017 22:43
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Thats the same thing that happened to Tochinoshin, right? He'll have to sit out at least 3 tournaments, and if he tries to fight with a torn ligament, he's just going to lose badly anyway.
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Sep 30, 2017 02:16
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Rigel posted:Thats the same thing that happened to Tochinoshin, right? He'll have to sit out at least 3 tournaments, and if he tries to fight with a torn ligament, he's just going to lose badly anyway. Pretty much. It's amazing the comeback Tochinoshin made with that kind of injury at his age.
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Sep 30, 2017 02:52
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I've been watching some uncut footage of sumo on youtube lately and there's a whole two minutes of entering the ring that I wasn't really aware of. Is there a set ritual for what happens before the tachiai? It seems like there are some set steps, clapping, etc, but I can't tell if getting to the line and getting back off it two or three times is choreographed or just a false start situation.
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Sep 30, 2017 15:23
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Martytoof posted:I've been watching some uncut footage of sumo on youtube lately and there's a whole two minutes of entering the ring that I wasn't really aware of. Is there a set ritual for what happens before the tachiai? It seems like there are some set steps, clapping, etc, but I can't tell if getting to the line and getting back off it two or three times is choreographed or just a false start situation. I think the higher ranked wrestler can call off the start if he feels something isn't right for him and they restart the procedure again.
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Sep 30, 2017 17:04
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Martytoof posted:I've been watching some uncut footage of sumo on youtube lately and there's a whole two minutes of entering the ring that I wasn't really aware of. Is there a set ritual for what happens before the tachiai? It seems like there are some set steps, clapping, etc, but I can't tell if getting to the line and getting back off it two or three times is choreographed or just a false start situation. The length of pre-tachiai warmup time is fixed by rank, so like wrestlers in the jonidan division don't get to do all the cool salt throwing stuff. I know certain elements of the ring entering, like the shiko (big stomp move) are formally part of getting ready for the match (so you see it in the lower divisions also). The bits where they form up to the line though, I can't quite tell how formal that all is, or if it's just traditional. I haven't found anything in English specifically describing what all of that is. I know the gyoji signals with his stance and fan when it's time actually get to it. The last time they leave the ring to throw salt is also when you usually see the wrestler's signature move, like Kotoshogiku's big stretch, or Harumafuji's hip wiggle, or Kisenosato slapping himself really hard in the face. Then they throw the salt, slap their bellies, and form up for the tachiai. At that point the timing is all mutual consent. If one wrestler doesn't like the timing, he'll nod an acknowledgement to the other and then stand up. They both stand up and re-set at that point, but they don't leave the ring any more. The gyoji doesn't control the timing of the tachiai except to stop the bout when there's a matta (false start).
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Sep 30, 2017 18:28
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Thanks for the info. From what I've pieced together, the match can begin when the gyoji is stanced with his fan facing perpendicular to the two wrestlers, but he also seems to have a warmup (?) where he kind of does his ready pose but not in that direction or.. I'm explaining it very very poorly but it's something that seemed to be repeated in the lower div matches I've caught on youtube. I also know that most matches begin with one wrestler with his fists on the ground and the other pounding one or both fists down to start. Is this ranked as well, where the higher rank gets to signal the start or how does that work?
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Sep 30, 2017 21:18
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Martytoof posted:Thanks for the info. Badly. They're not supposed to start until both guys put their fists down, but how strict they are about it has varied over time. If you look at old matches sometimes they just crouch slightly. At the moment particular gyoji enforce it hard and will call a matta at a moment's notice. You'll also occasionally see a long staredown to try to intimidate the opponent after which they'll both stand again and start over. A lot of the pre-match stuff is part ritual, part theatre and part psychology.
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Sep 30, 2017 21:38
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[quote="“Martytoof”" post="“476923304”"] Thanks for the info. From what I’ve pieced together, the match can begin when the gyoji is stanced with his fan facing perpendicular to the two wrestlers, but he also seems to have a warmup (?) where he kind of does his ready pose but not in that direction or.. I’m explaining it very very poorly but it’s something that seemed to be repeated in the lower div matches I’ve caught on youtube. [/quote] Technically they can start any time they're at the lines. They only get a set number of cycles (it used to be they would do the whole routine over and over until they went), and pointing the fan at the wrestlers means they've hit the limit.
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Sep 30, 2017 21:55
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Something my girlfriend noticed is how physiologically pumped the wrestlers get during the whole pre-bout ritual, especially someone like Hakuho. Watch him in Kyushu – he comes into the ring cool as a cucumber, but by the end of the ritual his whole body has a flush to it and he's sweating like crazy. His sympathetic nervous system is obvious on full blast by the time they form up for the actual tachiai. It certainly builds tension before a match. If you watch Jason's coverage of the playoff bout between Goeido and Harumafuji you can hear the crowd losing its mind by the time they finally do the charge.
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Oct 1, 2017 07:24
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There's a timekeeper signalling the gyoji as well, he does adjust the amount of time rikishi have for the entry on the fly. You'll see especially at the top of the banzuke guys getting a pretty large amount of time to do the entry if the day has had quick matches. I'm not sure if there's a limit at all. I know the salt throwing, mouth rinsing and sweat wiping are all about ritual purification. The sumo match itself being part of the whole shinto ritual. I wish there was a good book on this stuff in English.
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Oct 1, 2017 07:38
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