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Much appreciated, I'm happy with either Japanese or English so all good. Cheers.
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Dec 27, 2019 05:07
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You can also play Fantasy Sumo with us if you want! You can read the full rules from earlier in the thread, but the important bit for players is just the part on drafting. I found fantasy really helped me learn the lower-ranked guys. Everybody who's interested post your picks by the Saturday before opening day. I'm traveling for the holidays, but I'll be home in time to post a draft and then run the games.
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Dec 27, 2019 08:34
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If you want to watch it live, D i (d space i) streams it on youtube, then immediately deletes the stream. There's also a couple people on twitch.
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Dec 27, 2019 13:21
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Sometimes I watch Jason's all sumo channel on youtube, its pretty good but he doesnt get all the fights
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Dec 27, 2019 22:44
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Thanks all, I'll check it out and see about getting in on the fantasy game if I have time.
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Dec 28, 2019 03:21
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Hey so I'm interested in watching sumo and I only vaguely know the rules. One question I have is how do they decide who puts their hands down first? From watching it seems like when all 4 hands touch the ground then the bout starts. In instances like this video (20:15 if the link doesn't work) is it just a matter of patience? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txBYtfe2ZU4&t=1215s at 24:30 it kind of happens again And they get stuck in one position for like a full minute. That's crazy. ilmucche fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 19:18
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ilmucche posted:Hey so I'm interested in watching sumo and I only vaguely know the rules. One question I have is how do they decide who puts their hands down first? From watching it seems like when all 4 hands touch the ground then the bout starts. In instances like this video (20:15 if the link doesn't work) is it just a matter of patience? There are no hard rules on who puts their hands down first, but obviously whoever puts their hands down second to decide when the match begins has a (small) advantage. There are some unwritten rules and customs on this. Generally, if there is a significant difference in rank (like a Yokozuna vs a rank and file wrestler), the higher ranked guy is almost always going to insist on their opponent putting their hands down first, and the lower ranked guy usually understands. If they are close in rank, its less clear unless one guy wants to be stubborn. Then you also get mind games like when one guy is down and the other guy makes him wait forever so that the tachiai is (hopefully) a bit unexpected, which often results in a matta or the guy down saying "ok enough of this nonsense, lets reset". Sometimes the higher ranked guy will put his hands down first, as if he's saying "whatever, you are no threat, lets just get this over with"
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Jan 2, 2020 22:27
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Also, strictly enforcing the hands down rule is a relatively recent thing. If you look at old footage you'll see a ton of wrestlers just crouch down briefly then go.
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Jan 2, 2020 23:56
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This is making me think of a Hakuho-Kisenosato match where Kise dicks about with his hands causing a bunch of mattas (I think he's trying some mind game with Hak). Hak obviously pissed and pulls a henka when they finally get going. Can't for the life of me find it. Anyone know which one I'm after?
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Jan 3, 2020 01:52
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So this is where the thread is at. Y'all don't want to join the other combat sports? Not obscure enough already? Anyway, for some insane reason YouTube recommended me a supercut of tochinoshin's 15 fights at his last fat man games. I understood with some googling that he'd been demoted from the rank below yokozuna after a couple of poor showings and needed 10 wins to restore his rank and honour. I loving love narratives. And I loved the fights. I'm looking forward to the next tournament.
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Jan 3, 2020 04:10
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The sad part is, though, Tochi is pretty much done. He keeps re-injuring his ACL and can't take the time to let it come back to 100% (even if it could, which is doubtful). I want to see him come back and powerlift the other guys out of the ring on a daily basis, but I just don't see it happening.
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Jan 3, 2020 07:31
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don't worry i'm sure huge foreigners with abnormally massive front delts from picking up fat men and placing them over a rope on the ground are a dime a dozen
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Jan 3, 2020 07:36
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Marching Powder posted:So this is where the thread is at. Y'all don't want to join the other combat sports? Not obscure enough already? Unfortunately Tochinoshin already lost his chance for return to Ozeki (the Novemeber tournament was the one he could have bounced back with the 10). But the narrative still holds as Takayasu now finds himself in the situation of needing 10 to bounce back. Other fun stories: 1) Hakuho the GOAT. He’s getting on in years, but when he’s healthy he’s still dominant but it’s getting to the point where he has trouble holding up for a whole tournament. 2) Goeido, the veteran Ozeki was hurt any missed the last tournament so he needs 8 to keep his rank or he drops down like Tochi did. 3) Not necessarily a story, but If you haven’t seen them, Endo and Ishiura are fun to watch. Super tiny guys (barely over 200 lbs) in a land of giants that hold their own with crazy moves
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Jan 3, 2020 07:56
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Hakuho is some insane poo poo if you wanna see a GOAT. He's already "past his prime" and still dominates bashos when he's healthy. Even as someone that doesn't "know" sumo, it's pretty evident that he's something special. As for everyone else, Endo is cool, I'm personally a fan of "gently caress technique, I can just slap you" Mitakeumi too.
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Jan 3, 2020 08:24
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Yeah the only guys I really know so far are Tochinoshin, Enho, and Hakuho. I can’t wait to follow the next basho live-ish
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Jan 3, 2020 08:30
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pseudodragon posted:Unfortunately Tochinoshin already lost his chance for return to Ozeki (the Novemeber tournament was the one he could have bounced back with the 10). But the narrative still holds as Takayasu now finds himself in the situation of needing 10 to bounce back. Huh? I must have watched an old video or something because in the video I saw Tochi made it back to ozeki, but I'll be watching Takayasu keenly because it's a simple story with an underdog protag. Hakuho is really obviously incredible. Reminds me of Bernard Hopkins winning a world title pushing 50 in that he switched up his style as his body aged and leaned heavily on experience and other intangibles to win out over guys 20 years his junior at the very peak of their athletic careers. I absolutely adore athletes that are able to do this. Finally, thanks for the Endo / Ishiura recs, as yes, it really is fascinating to see little-ish guys (hell, even Hakuho is pretty small) win out with technique. One final observation I just need some clarity on: I am hearing laughter when one of the giant fat dudes go tumbling right? I understand these guys are treated like gods but I find it really human when the audience laughs when one of their giant national heroes are forced to do comedic prat falls by a skilled opponent.
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Jan 3, 2020 10:46
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After being told there was this thread, and reading up and watching some of the bashos from 2019 I think given that I live so close to Japan I may try and get over to Fukuoka to watch the Kyushu Basho this year as a mini vacation/excuse to get out of Korea for a bit. Anyone have experience going to a tournament in Japan as a non-Japanese or can point me to a reputable source?
Mekchu fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 11:22
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Marching Powder posted:Huh? I must have watched an old video or something because in the video I saw Tochi made it back to ozeki Yeah, he went kadoban after withdrawing in July after six straight losses, then dropped to sekiwake after going 6-9 in September, then dropped to maegashira after withdrawing in November with a 2-3 record. But the fact he can reach ozeki but can't keep a firm grip on it tells me he's peaked. I mean, he could prove me wrong - please Tochi prove me wrong - but the facts are the facts and they're not pointing at ozeki again.
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Jan 3, 2020 11:24
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Mekchu posted:After being told there was this thread, and reading up and watching some of the bashos from 2019 I think given that I live so close to Japan I may try and get over to Fukuoka to watch the Kyushu Basho this year as a mini vacation/excuse to get out of Korea for a bit. Anyone have experience going to a tournament in Japan as a non-Japanese or can point me to a reputable source? The only annoying thing is getting tickets. The live experience is very good. There is a lot more delay between bouts that you might expect if you just watch YouTube bout reels. Go early and see the undercards as well. The only bummer from my perspective is that it is extremely not obvious who is actually in the bout from the stands.
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Jan 3, 2020 12:32
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Cool, I'll definitely look into doing the November tournament. I saw some website selling tickets for January and the price isn't too awful for a baseline estimate.
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Jan 3, 2020 12:38
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Why is henka regarded with such disdain? I'm watching a video where they say one guy is even expected and known for it. Also the next bout is two guys slapping the poo poo out of each other and all over the ring. Very exciting.
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Jan 3, 2020 13:46
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ilmucche posted:Why is henka regarded with such disdain? I'm watching a video where they say one guy is even expected and known for it. Depends on the context. The odd random henka from a rank and filer early on, or if someone is desperate to get their kachi-koshi in the last 2 days? OK, and his opponent should expect it. A henka from someone in the top ranks near the end of the tournament when it matters for the leaderboard and he's not desperate for a win? Legal, but not cool at all, and the audience/fans/sumo media will let him have it.
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Jan 3, 2020 15:26
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Marching Powder posted:So this is where the thread is at. Y'all don't want to join the other combat sports? Not obscure enough already? Yes, this thread probably belongs in the combat sports subforum. Marching Powder posted:Huh? I must have watched an old video or something because in the video I saw Tochi made it back to ozeki, but I'll be watching Takayasu keenly because it's a simple story with an underdog protag. In May 2019, after back to back losing records as Ozeki, he was demoted to Sekiwake and given his one-time-only chance to get back with 10 wins, which he did (10th win on the 14th day was a henka, which everyone was fine with because he was truly desperate). However, due to his never-ending ACL injury, he again had back to back losing records in July and September, got demoted for November, and was not able to get his 10 wins. He tumbled all the way down to the rank and file for the January tournament. Here are the storylines for January: Hakuho (the GOAT, and when when we say GOAT, we mean the best in all recorded history going back hundreds of years) is the defending champion. If he's healthy, he's always the heavy favorite. No one is currently on any kind of Yokozuna or Ozeki run for January. Goeido is kadoban, he needs 8 wins to avoid demotion. Takayasu has been demoted to Sekiwake, he needs 10 wins to regain his Ozeki rank. If he fails, then he starts all over from scratch on the road to promotion back to Ozeki. Asanoyama had a good tournament at Komusubi, was tied for 2nd behind Hakuho, and was promoted to Sekiwake. It'll be interesting to see if he can keep it up, and he's still fairly young. Rigel fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 15:29
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Really, Hakuho is a pretty strong candidate for the GOAT of all GOATs
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Jan 3, 2020 15:58
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Agreed. In a sport with such rich history and record keeping, he's rewriting the entire top end of what's possible and what should be expected for the GOAT discussion. Championships: 43, 1st place (+11 over 2nd place) Undefeated championships: 15, 1st (+7 over 2nd place) Career wins: 1146, 1st (+99 over 2nd, no one active anywhere near this!) Makuuchi wins: 1052, 1st (nearly +200 over 2nd) Win/loss ratio: 84.7%, best in the modern era with over 200-300 more matches than anyone else in the top 5 Tournaments as Yokozuna: 74, 1st (+11 over 2nd) Special feats: 63 consecutive wins, tied for 2nd all time Has achieved 86/90 wins in a year twice, the best mark in a calendar year. Is the only wrestler to have more than one 81+ win year (Hakuho has four years such, lol) 93 tournaments in Makuuchi, with January 2020 he'll move into sole possession of 5th place all time with 94. If he can make it through another year he'll crack 100 tournaments in the top division early next year and we'll have to see if his longevity and ability will hold up for him to reach Kaio's mark of 107 tournaments in the top division. I'm probably leaving out some records or other notable achievements but dang, Hakuho's the GOAT
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Jan 3, 2020 16:57
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Some early updates, most of the rikishi will be going for degeiko this weekend and early next week. (degeiko = practice matches between wrestlers in competing sumo stables, where they go harder than normal practice, but not as hard as a basho) Hakuho: He says he feels great, and could compete right now. Kakuryu: no news Takakeisho: he is recovering from a fever, possible flu. Goeido: He says his ankle is recovering, but he's taking it slowly and carefully. He plans to perform at the YDC soken on 1/6, and has started visiting other heya for degeiko. He only recently started working on his tachiai, there's not much time left to prepare. Others: Takayasu says his back is "getting better" he hasn't done much serious training yet. We'll see....
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Jan 3, 2020 20:42
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Omnikin posted:Agreed. In a sport with such rich history and record keeping, he's rewriting the entire top end of what's possible and what should be expected for the GOAT discussion. I read somewhere, might have been in the OP, that anyone who beats a yokozuna and is elligible gets a gold star award and that also comes with a 20k a year LIFETIME pay rise. That seemed sort of absurd to me until I looked at Hakuho's wikipedia. Yeah, sure, beat that guy and get 20k. Speaking of Hakuho, wasn't he the guy Tochi beat via henka earlier in 2019 to get his rank back? DId Tochi get a gold star for that? Or do you have to beat a Yokozuna the, uh, proper way?
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Jan 3, 2020 20:44
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Marching Powder posted:I read somewhere, might have been in the OP, that anyone who beats a yokozuna and is elligible gets a gold star award and that also comes with a 20k a year LIFETIME pay rise. That seemed sort of absurd to me until I looked at Hakuho's wikipedia. Yeah, sure, beat that guy and get 20k. Gold star victories are only available for those ranked in the Maegashira. So yeah, if a random rank and file guy beats a yokozuna, he deserves that lifetime bonus. Its only about $2,200/year US dollars tho. (240k yen) Tochi would get a gold star if he beat Hakuho or Kakuryu in january, since he fell all the way down to the rank and file. Back when Kisenosato was still struggling as a wounded yokozuna on his way out, he was making it rain kinboshi, lots of random guys got nice lifetime pay bumps from him before he finally retired. Rigel fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 21:02
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Marching Powder posted:I read somewhere, might have been in the OP, that anyone who beats a yokozuna and is elligible gets a gold star award and that also comes with a 20k a year LIFETIME pay rise. That seemed sort of absurd to me until I looked at Hakuho's wikipedia. Yeah, sure, beat that guy and get 20k. You only get the star if you beat a Yokozuna at the basic M1-16/17 ranks. When you get to the sanyaku ranks of K/S/O you are expected to be competitive so you don’t get the upset bonus.
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Jan 3, 2020 21:03
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ahh, nice one. thanks for the additonal info.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:21
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The expense of the payments for kinboshi is no doubt one of the reasons there's pressure to retire if you are struggling at the top. Hakuho is a real outlier both in ability and longevity. It does make me wonder how a Hakuho-less decade might have shaped up. How would his 40+ wins have been distributed? Harumafuji, Kakuryu and Kisenosato's reputations as yokozuna are limited by both the comparison to an all time great, but also by having their total numbers of tournament wins lowered by Hakuho soaking them all up.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:15
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Someone on sumoforum actually did this a couple of years ago. I'll see if I can dig up the post later.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:28
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Kakuryu would have been without a doubt considered a great yokozuna. Except.... well, he came up during Hakuho's peak, so he's merely pretty good.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:52
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Here we go - it was done in 2015, so not super up to date, but will give you an idea: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/34300-what-if-there-was-no-hakuho-the-yushos-instead-go-to/?tab=comments#comment-285702
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Jan 4, 2020 02:33
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Elissimpark posted:Here we go - it was done in 2015, so not super up to date, but will give you an idea: Man, Kise’s career looks a whole lot different. If he gets promoted in that 4 win/playoff streak, he probably isn’t an idiot about his injury since his status would have been normalized and the pressure would have been off. He’s probably still around and looking like a pretty solid Yokozuna instead of the mess his end of career turned out to be. And that doesn’t even consider if he snaps his mental block earlier and doesn’t choke as much.
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Jan 4, 2020 05:03
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Hakuho is undoubtedly the best at sumo. I super wish he'd retire soon. He's pretty boring to watch because you already know the outcome of his matches. It's great when he loses, but he's either going to win the whole thing or drop out regardless of what happens. He's just a damp blanket smothering the Basho if he shows up and decides to stick around.
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Jan 4, 2020 06:59
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Elissimpark posted:Here we go - it was done in 2015, so not super up to date, but will give you an idea: Well that saves me having to do the work!
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Jan 4, 2020 13:48
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So.... sumo guys die super loving young huh? Like, way earlier than fat, unfair people (or so it seems). Is anyone studying this?
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Jan 4, 2020 15:51
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Sports science in sumo is waaaaaay behind. They'll get a concussion protocol in about 2050 I'd reckon.
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Jan 4, 2020 17:15
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Marching Powder posted:So.... sumo guys die super loving young huh? Like, way earlier than fat, unfair people (or so it seems). Is anyone studying this? Not necessarily. Most sumo wrestlers quickly lose a ton of weight after they retire. All those shimpan in the black robes during the matches? All of them were sumo wrestlers. Not all of them do though, ex-kisenosato is still pretty drat heavy, but maybe it is just taking him more time.
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Jan 4, 2020 17:38
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