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ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Is there such a thing as inverted tank controls?

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Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

Barudak posted:

Its this. Up is forward is fine, until the camera changes and where up is taking you changes

To be mildly flippant I don’t get this either. If someone is watching a movie and the camera angle changes do they suddenly think “Woah that person was running toward me but now they’re running away from me??”

TheWorldsaStage
Sep 10, 2020

If you hold up from before the camera change you'll still go forward!

ZogrimAteMyHamster
Dec 8, 2015

I could outlive the heat death of the universe and I'd still be sat here unable to comprehend how "up = forward" could possibly be a difficult concept to deal with, regardless of camera angle.

That being said however the classic RE games were always pretty loving good about where in any given room that the camera would shift to while you were running around, unlike so many of its inspirations and copycats (yes I'm looking your loving way Alone in the Dark 2 you goddamned awful piece of poo poo you couldn't even get the backgrounds to match up with the actual map geometry for gently caress's sake).

So maybe we were just spoiled by Good Game Design™.


TheWorldsaStage posted:

If you hold up from before the camera change you'll still go forward!

And this is where the 'modern'/3D control scheme for REmake would probably throw me for a loop :v:

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

I’ve had way more issues with controller sticks in modern games when they try to be cinematic during big moments with switching and sweeping camera angles than I ever did in RE.

ZogrimAteMyHamster
Dec 8, 2015

Kibayasu posted:

I’ve had way more issues with controller sticks in modern games when they try to be cinematic during big moments with switching and sweeping camera angles than I ever did in RE.

Oh, like RE6 :v:

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!

Captain Hygiene posted:

Everyone generalizes "tank controls" as the issue, but I think it's really "tank controls in a fixed camera with constantly reorienting angles" that make them iffy to return to.
Alone in the Dark Controls

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Kibayasu posted:

To be mildly flippant I don’t get this either. If someone is watching a movie and the camera angle changes do they suddenly think “Woah that person was running toward me but now they’re running away from me??”

Uh, yes, many a bad film has confusing as hell chase scenes due to this and on a fundamental basics of film standpoint the 180 rule in films where flipping the orientation of two characters in a scene versus their reference position in a scene is viscerally upsetting and confusing for viewers.

Tank controls are fine, camera changes that make you constantly realign what is left and right or where forward is taking you are the problem, and its mostly a camera angle problem. I don't care for most tank controls anyway, though, because even if arguably realistic Id rather fidelity of control over realism in most cases.

ZogrimAteMyHamster
Dec 8, 2015

Barudak posted:

camera changes that make you constantly realign what is left and right or where forward is taking you are the problem

This would definitely be filed under "modern" control scheme. With classic tank controls, if I am pressing up, then the direction I move in if always "forward" (i.e. the direction the character is initially facing) regardless of how many times the camera changes position while I am holding up on the d-pad. The camera could do orbits around the room and spin like a motherfucker, but if I am simply pressing "up" then I'd still be running in a straight line no matter what.

With something like the newer scheme in REmake -- and I have yet to test/confirm this myself because I am something of a luddite when it comes to classic RE games and their controls, though I have been told by others -- when the angle changes, whatever direction you're holding on the analog stick changes the character's direction relative to the room with it (e.g. if you are holding up, then you are always running away from the camera with each change). If anything this sounds far loving worse.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:

This would definitely be filed under "modern" control scheme. With classic tank controls, if I am pressing up, then the direction I move in if always "forward" (i.e. the direction the character is initially facing) regardless of how many times the camera changes position while I am holding up on the d-pad. The camera could do orbits around the room and spin like a motherfucker, but if I am simply pressing "up" then I'd still be running in a straight line no matter what.

With something like the newer scheme in REmake -- and I have yet to test/confirm this myself because I am something of a luddite when it comes to classic RE games and their controls, though I have been told by others -- when the angle changes, whatever direction you're holding on the analog stick changes the character's direction relative to the room with it (e.g. if you are holding up, then you are always running away from the camera with each change). If anything this sounds far loving worse.
My understanding is that the direction sticks between cameras as long as you keep holding it down, then reorients itself when you stop moving.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:

This would definitely be filed under "modern" control scheme. With classic tank controls, if I am pressing up, then the direction I move in if always "forward" (i.e. the direction the character is initially facing) regardless of how many times the camera changes position while I am holding up on the d-pad. The camera could do orbits around the room and spin like a motherfucker, but if I am simply pressing "up" then I'd still be running in a straight line no matter what.

With something like the newer scheme in REmake -- and I have yet to test/confirm this myself because I am something of a luddite when it comes to classic RE games and their controls, though I have been told by others -- when the angle changes, whatever direction you're holding on the analog stick changes the character's direction relative to the room with it (e.g. if you are holding up, then you are always running away from the camera with each change). If anything this sounds far loving worse.

It's matter of taste. All the classic DMC games use the exact same controls.

You won't suddenly start walking backwards when the camera angle changes because the game registers your last input as forward until you start readjusting the stick.

I do prefer tank controls but only because those games were specifically built for that movement.

Similarly trying to play DMC (despite the fixed camera angles which give you a good view of the battle) with tank controls would be insane

WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Nov 9, 2022

Selenephos
Jul 9, 2010

Tank controls are always relative to the character you're playing as. It's why the 3D controls in Silent Hill 2 and 3 are okay because even when the camera changes, pressing up will still make James and Heather walk forward, while the 2D controls in Silent Hill 4 and Origins are dogshit despite being more "modern" because pressing up will take you in whatever direction you push the stick until the camera changes, at which point you suddenly switch directions and go back the way you came until you reorient yourself.

People being broke brained about tank controls is why most camera angles in games are situated behind the character so you'll never get confused.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Kibayasu posted:

To be mildly flippant I don’t get this either. If someone is watching a movie and the camera angle changes do they suddenly think “Woah that person was running toward me but now they’re running away from me??”

they do if the camera change breaks the 180 degree rule, which some of the camera changes in old RE games definitely do

Electromax
May 6, 2007
The newer REmake lets you use camera-oriented controls, but it also like unlocks a much faster turning radius so you can spin around zombies much faster than intended. It actually makes some bits much easier, even when I've been fine with tank controls since like 1993.

A Worrying Warlock
Sep 21, 2009
I'm playing the RE2 remake using a fps mod, and it's fantastic.

Aiming for headshots becomes easier, but you lose a lot of peripheral vision. It makes everything really loving intense, and made me pay a lot more attention to environmental details.

I've never really been scared by zombies, but having one get the jump on you and being right in your face changes that.

I paused the game after clearing a room, not noticing that one of the zombies wasn't dead yet. The moment I unpaused, it lurched from the ground straight to my face. Gave my partner a good laugh.

10/10, would recommend

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
I wasn't implying that the original RE1 controls are impossible to grasp or master or anything. The OP said he'd never played any games in the series so, im my mind, I thought it might be a bit of an adjustment since I can't think of too many other games that use it.

I was an original RE1 PS1 master and played it to death but found myself having a bit of trouble a year ago with RE1 Remake due to decades of acquiring different muscle memory.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

One thing I enjoyed about Parasite Eve 2's take on tank controls was it clearly indicating what you were locked onto for shooting. That helped a lot with tank controls in combat.

Leave
Feb 7, 2012

Taking the term "Koopaling" to a whole new level since 2016.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

My understanding is that the direction sticks between cameras as long as you keep holding it down, then reorients itself when you stop moving.

That's the kind of thing that in my mind, I know exactly how it works. In practice, if I ever think about the angle change, then I'm all hosed up on what direction I'm going.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Yeah, it's that kind of stuff that makes it tricky for me. Like yeah, I understand how relative movement works, it's just that controlling it in practice (especially in a tense setting with enemies) takes too much effort to keep up with for me to enjoy. The alternate control scheme in REmake did a lot to improve that particular aspect for me.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!
So it sounds like I need to use the TMP when I play the remake.

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

So, holding one direction to continue moving in a straight line regardless of camera angle is better than the archaic method of holding one direction to continue moving in a straight line regardless of camera angle.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Crowetron posted:

So, holding one direction to continue moving in a straight line regardless of camera angle is better than the archaic method of holding one direction to continue moving in a straight line regardless of camera angle.

It's turning that's the confusing part :haw:

worms butthole guy
Jan 29, 2021

by Fluffdaddy
Hi

For about 25 years I was too scared to play a resudent evil game but something in the last year clicked in me and I'm not scared no more (except for music that poo poo still scares me) . So far I've beaten:

RE2R (okay)
RE5 (I beat this when it came out in coop and loved it)

Played and got pretty close to beating;
RE8 (got about a hour left)
RE1R (got about 3 hours left)
RE7 (only got to the basement when it came out never played it after)

I've started but not played more than a hour:
RE1PS1
RE3R
RE4

I think my favorite parts of RE are when it's linear and you get to shoot zombies. I'm not a huge fan of having like a huge Map that I need to explore. At this moment I'm going through RE1R and it's fun but I don't like it that much because I get lost and have to look up a guide.

So I'm wondering what one I should play next. I was debating on Revelations 2 since both the Retronauts podcast and retro game thread here said its good, plus I guess there a mode that let's you just run around and kill poo poo? Otherwise are any of the f
Others either original ps1 or whatever more linear / action orientated?

I might finish RE3R next possibly - I played it last week up to the first Nemesis fight and pauses it but haven't picked it back up.

Thanks goons

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

worms butthole guy posted:

I think my favorite parts of RE are when it's linear and you get to shoot zombies. I'm not a huge fan of having like a huge Map that I need to explore. At this moment I'm going through RE1R and it's fun but I don't like it that much because I get lost and have to look up a guide.

So I'm wondering what one I should play next. I was debating on Revelations 2 since both the Retronauts podcast and retro game thread here said its good, plus I guess there a mode that let's you just run around and kill poo poo? Otherwise are any of the f
Others either original ps1 or whatever more linear / action orientated?

I might finish RE3R next possibly - I played it last week up to the first Nemesis fight and pauses it but haven't picked it back up.

Thanks goons

You should probably finish RE4 first if linear zombie-shooting is your jam.

You'd also probably get a lot out of Revelations 2, both in the game itself and its unlockable Raid Mode. It sounds like you'd really enjoy Raid Mode, in fact, as it's basically a plotless dungeon crawler built around the game's combat system.

worms butthole guy
Jan 29, 2021

by Fluffdaddy
poo poo yeah that sounds awesome lol. Ok playing that next then

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

Revelations 2 raid mode is more of an arena shooter where you fight waves of increasingly harder enemies until it’s over. Still fun though, at least for a bit. Revelations 1 campaign can be a bit explore-y but nowhere near as much as the original games. Revelations 2 campaign is a straight path and pretty good.

PS1 RE2 is actually fairly similar to RE2 remake in terms of puzzling and pacing. There’s some exploration to do at the start but eventually it narrows down into a straighter path later on. It’s combat is way more forgiving than PS1 RE1 though.

Bloodcider
Jun 19, 2009

worms butthole guy posted:


I think my favorite parts of RE are when it's linear and you get to shoot zombies.

I might finish RE3R next possibly - I played it last week up to the first Nemesis fight and pauses it but haven't picked it back up.

3remake lasts about four hours total, but it keeps gaining momentum as it goes. It leans hard into the shooting from midgame onward, everything is fast set pieces with new enemies and cool guns. I'd definitely finish it before taking on the much longer RE4.

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 13, 2013
I'm currently on the army base and had my first knife fight with Krauser and am about to fight the U3 in the container cage (which is inside a cave for some reason). The army part of the game has felt so much more like a slog than the castle and village did.

ZogrimAteMyHamster
Dec 8, 2015

Kosmo Gallion posted:

I'm currently on the army base and had my first knife fight with Krauser and am about to fight the U3 in the container cage (which is inside a cave for some reason). The army part of the game has felt so much more like a slog than the castle and village did.

The moment I remember the island section, it immediately kills any motivation I have to pick up RE4 again. It's just... fuckin' boring.

Martian Manfucker
Dec 27, 2012

misandry is real
I see that Re:Verse was finally released last month. Is the fact that I completely missed any news about this indicative of it being extremely bad? I know people were down on it in the beta.

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?
I started playing re2r just before Halloween to have a spooky game and ended up blowing through 3 as well. Followed it up with slightly modded re4 on the Deck and now I'm on to 5 on Deck too and... I'm kind of not liking it?
Story wise this seems up there so far but I just went from a boss fight to a turret section to somehow a turret section bossfight. It just seems less joined together than 4, maybe too actiony too which I know is what people hated about 6 but I loved 6?

Anyway I just rocked up on a tribal stilt hut with an army guy covered in spears outside and I'm ready for things to get really really embarrassing.

I'm planning on doing both revelations and then 7 and 8. Snapped them all up in the sale. I'm gonna ride this hyperfixation until RE4R comes out

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Shoehead posted:

I started playing re2r just before Halloween to have a spooky game and ended up blowing through 3 as well. Followed it up with slightly modded re4 on the Deck and now I'm on to 5 on Deck too and... I'm kind of not liking it?
Story wise this seems up there so far but I just went from a boss fight to a turret section to somehow a turret section bossfight. It just seems less joined together than 4, maybe too actiony too which I know is what people hated about 6 but I loved 6?

Anyway I just rocked up on a tribal stilt hut with an army guy covered in spears outside and I'm ready for things to get really really embarrassing.

I'm planning on doing both revelations and then 7 and 8. Snapped them all up in the sale. I'm gonna ride this hyperfixation until RE4R comes out

It has stuff I like, but 5 is definitely my least favorite from 4 onward. I always describe it as utilizing the mechanics of 4 with a few improvements, but having no real understanding of that game's pacing, flow, or escalation. And yeah, there's also the 1930s Tarzan movie quality representation of Africa too...

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

RE6 is superficially similar to RE4/5 but changed so much that it felt like it’s own thing, for better or worse. You can’t help but compare 5 to 4 but RE6 is always just RE6 and if you can enjoy 6 for what it is then it can be fun on its own.

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?
I should probably mention I got to play 6 with another Goon when it came back and it was really really fun, like watching a bmovie with a friend. So I dunno if I really got the same experience most people got.

Also holy lol these Tribal Manjini guy, oh my god.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS
RE6s whole deal is being THE MOST everything it can be at once. It's a mess, but there's plenty of fun bits in that mess.

Although Helena can sod off. Most tiresome character since Steve.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Should've had Hunnigan out in the field for that one.

Ineffiable
Feb 16, 2008

Some say that his politics are terrifying, and that he once punched a horse to the ground...


I've been enjoying going back and finishing out the resident evil games on ps4. Currently on re7 now. Seems like the plan is I should do that speedrun so I can get all the trophies and then go and do other stuff like Madhouse.

Shiroc
May 16, 2009

Sorry I'm late
Capcom bosses sitting down with the Resident Evil team after 5
“So where do you want to take the series?”
“We’re not sure, we have 5-6 ideas”
“All of them”
“What do you mean?”
“ALL. OF. THEM.”

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Shiroc posted:

Capcom bosses sitting down with the Resident Evil team after 5
“So where do you want to take the series?”
“We’re not sure, we have 5-6 ideas”
“All of them”
“What do you mean?”
“ALL. OF. THEM.”

When I heard people describe RE6 as a mix of horror and action depending on scenario, that didn't sound too bad. Best of both worlds - you placate the hardcores who hated how Action-y the series had become, but you also appeal to all the fans brought on by 4 or 5.

Of course, few ideas are bad in themselves, it's all about execution. And RE6 executed everything poorly.

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Shiroc
May 16, 2009

Sorry I'm late
Yeah, if they’d focused on maybe 1-2 of their ideas and given them real focus it could have been a much tighter game. Instead we got all of them at varying levels of refinement and quality.

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