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Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



RickRogers posted:

I'm picking him (Terrence) on Monday up, because I forgot to yesterday.

I guess I will have to spend the waiting time by buying Bonsai equipment, new shears and pots and stuff.


Honestly, donít overspend when you just start out. Youíll figure out a lot of poo poo in the first few months and probably break some tools.

Some people recommend buying bonsai-specific nippers/etc at the outset and spending a bit more, but Iíd rather wind up with a broken set of cheap general-purpose tools (esp if youíre working on small, inexpensive material to largely build your chops) after one year and have to replace them with more ďintermediateĒ bonsai tools than to spend more on cheap (but what will be more expensive) bonsai tools, especially without any familiarity or experience, and have to replace them too.

Iíd get some appropriately sized training pots ($20-30 for a set), a basic wire set ($10-20), and 2-3 pairs of commodity nippers/wire cutters ($10-20). Iíd get some fine pruning shears ($6), a small lopper/branch cutter ($10), and some gloves- I like having one set of cheap gardening gloves for general ďgarden gloveĒ poo poo and then a heavier duty set of inexpensive leather work gloves for when handling very rough material ($2-20). (I also use a lot of this poo poo for other plant needs).

Over the course of the year Iíve had to replace- one set of shears (and I still use the old ones as beaters), one wire cutter/nipper, I bought more spools of wire, and I added some fish tank air tubing for padding guy wires on my medium juniper.

This has covered me for ten trees so far and Iíve got plenty of wire and stuff ready to go for this upcoming February.

Also you gotta think about soil (but if you use Home Depot plants and big, deep training pots you can get away with a lot) but Iíll leave that to other people.

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Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009


YOU CAN STOMP US!

YOU CAN SQUASH US!

BUT YOU'LL NEVER EVER STOP US!


I've been thinking about picking up a few more figs in the new year, since I'm basic like that. I've already got a ginseng ofc, and I think I'll get a f. regligiosa for sure. Does the thread have any recommendations for willow-leaf varieties of fig?

RickRogers
Jun 21, 2020

Woh, is that a thing I like??


Ok Comboomer posted:

Honestly, don’t overspend when you just start out. You’ll figure out a lot of poo poo in the first few months and probably break some tools.

Some people recommend buying bonsai-specific nippers/etc at the outset and spending a bit more, but I’d rather wind up with a broken set of cheap general-purpose tools (esp if you’re working on small, inexpensive material to largely build your chops) after one year and have to replace them with more “intermediate” bonsai tools than to spend more on cheap (but what will be more expensive) bonsai tools, especially without any familiarity or experience, and have to replace them too.

I’d get some appropriately sized training pots ($20-30 for a set), a basic wire set ($10-20), and 2-3 pairs of commodity nippers/wire cutters ($10-20). I’d get some fine pruning shears ($6), a small lopper/branch cutter ($10), and some gloves- I like having one set of cheap gardening gloves for general “garden glove” poo poo and then a heavier duty set of inexpensive leather work gloves for when handling very rough material ($2-20). (I also use a lot of this poo poo for other plant needs).

Over the course of the year I’ve had to replace- one set of shears (and I still use the old ones as beaters), one wire cutter/nipper, I bought more spools of wire, and I added some fish tank air tubing for padding guy wires on my medium juniper.

This has covered me for ten trees so far a and I’ve got plenty of wire and stuff ready to go for this upcoming February.

Also you gotta think about soil (but if you use Home Depot plants and big, deep training pots you can get away with a lot) but I’ll leave that to other people.

I'm lucky in that I am a garden landscaper/horticulturist, so a lot of the tools I have collected for work have some cross over potential.
I use a Felco 8 for my day to day pruning, but I think I can stretch to getting something finer, maybe from Okatsune, and writing it off as a work expense because I could also use them to de-head roses or something.

Wiring will be interesting; will have to get a set of various copper gauges, or in something else appropriate. I also have some rubber tubing in various sizes for training espalier fruit trees to their frames, so will try this first and see if it's soft enough.

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


I have a shohin Green island ficus that has been fun

It is a slow grower but it's hardy and it grows like "chunkily", and enough that you see difference every other day

I reccomend it

Edit:

my most used tool is a $2.80 set of bonsai snips from Daiso , some $5 cutters and some wire. Maybe chuck a pocket knife in there too

The side cutters have enough leverage to cut suprisingly thick branches,albeit somewhat roughly

I also reccomend a (hand pump) pressure sprayer for watering, there is something very satisfying about pressure spraying water into soil ,and you can clean leaves easily

Jestery fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Dec 19, 2020

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Bug Squash posted:

I've been thinking about picking up a few more figs in the new year, since I'm basic like that. I've already got a ginseng ofc, and I think I'll get a f. regligiosa for sure. Does the thread have any recommendations for willow-leaf varieties of fig?

I canít speak to willow leafs, but thereís nothing wrong with getting multiples of the types you have and playing with different forms and styles and looks. No reason you canít have a bunch of ginsengs, except that I suppose they look pretty trashy when theyíre young.

What about umbrella plants? Schefflera are super versatile, thereís a really lovely variegated form that you can find in most places, and when you buy any size potted schefflera youíre getting anywhere from 3-7 individual plants to play with.

They take being cut hard and defoliated super well too, so you can approach, say, an 8 or 11Ē pot by taking a small 6Ē plant and growing it up and maybe getting something more slender and gracile, or starting with a 30Ē plant and chopping it back to make a thicc boi

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



RickRogers posted:

I'm lucky in that I am a garden landscaper/horticulturist, so a lot of the tools I have collected for work have some cross over potential.
I use a Felco 8 for my day to day pruning, but I think I can stretch to getting something finer, maybe from Okatsune, and writing it off as a work expense because I could also use them to de-head roses or something.

Wiring will be interesting; will have to get a set of various copper gauges, or in something else appropriate. I also have some rubber tubing in various sizes for training espalier fruit trees to their frames, so will try this first and see if it's soft enough.

Oh youíre gonna do 100% better than 99% of bonsai newbies, believe me. Youíre fine. Your job is in landscape and espaliers, youíre fine. I have nothing of value that I can tell you, except to say that every time you plant a Leyland Cypress, Satan wins.]

Like half my poo pooís from Home Depot.

Also bonsai wireís dirt cheap, available on Amazon, etc, donít overthink bonsai wire.

Iíve heard stories from several oldtimers of the days in the 70s and 80s before readily available equipment, bonsai-specific retailers and expos, e-commerce, etc, when they were wiring their trees using industrial and telecom cable materials.

Peter Chan was an electrical engineer before he became a bonsai dealer and apparently he would raid his employer for wire. Iím sure Crocoduck will be in at some point to say ďthat makes sense Peter Chanís trees look like they were wired with phone cablingĒ or something to that effect.

Ok Comboomer fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Dec 19, 2020

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012


Yeah, I'm a snob about wire. First things first - I'd pick up a pair of these.

https://www.superflybonsai.com/collections/other-tools/products/kiku-8-long-handle-bonsai-shears

These are a great, cheap pair of shears that are suitable for cutting branches up to around half an inch thick. You can also use them for cutting wire up to around... oh I dunno, gauge 8-10.

You'll eventually need to also purchase a pair of blunt nosed wire cutters - these are used to take the wire off the tree after you apply it. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/vouiu-8inch-...0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Finally, a cheap pair of jin pliers is invaluable in the bonsai garden and around the house. I'd say you're looking at ~$60-80 altogether, but these are tools that will last.

For wire - well, the first distinction to make is between copper wire and aluminum wire. Aluminum wire is softer, it can be reused, and it's a lot cheaper. In general it's used on deciduous trees, as wire can quickly (think like a matter of weeks) bite into the bark. On a deciduous tree this can leave permanent disfiguring scars that force you to start your work over, so it's important to remove that poo poo.

Copper wire is a little more hardcore and takes a bit more technique to apply well. It IS different than regular electrical wire in that it's been annealed - heated to some super hot temperature. This softens the wire so that it's easy to apply, but once it's been bent, it sets in place and is tough to manipulate. This is a major advantage for conifers, especially flexible species like spruce and some pines (eg ponderosa), as you may leave wire on them for several years. Because it's stronger, it's also less visually obtrusive, and it's common to see bonsai displayed with fine wire on their branches. If you're going to go the route of purchasing electrical wire to use on your bonsai, I'd suggest comparing it to some bonsai wire of equivalent gauge and trying out the annealing process on your own as well.

And yes, I'm not a fan of Chan's wiring :P

This is the guy who taught me to wire, I like his stuff much better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQGzvxnA_Sk

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Having messed around with using some 10ga bare copper I had sitting around that was leftover from a project and needing something chunky in a pinch, I will say: don't cheap out and use electrical copper. It's a complete pain in the rear end to bend into shape, and it actually feels way harder to remove when you are done as well. Like I said it'll do in a pinch, but it's really not worth the extra cost.

Ok Comboomer posted:

That guyís got a naturally really nice shape. Looks like you could do a lot with it.

Post some more complete pics! Weíll give some thoughts.

I agree, this guy's got a cool shape!

Solenna
Jun 5, 2003

I'd say it was your manifest destiny not to.



My goofy jade. Posters were right, it probably doesn't get enough sun, though I've been able to move it directly in front of a south facing window for now. I guess my goal is make it a little busier looking. I also have a couple little pots full of cuttings.


Eta: I'm sure it's pruning that needs to be done but I'm not sure how aggressive I can be or the best way to encourage new leaves lower down, if that's even possible.

Solenna fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Dec 20, 2020

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


In my experience

Lots of sun and vigorous growth promotes lower budding

And had will backbud two buds at the closest lower node

This is a fairly good example of the back budding pattern of jade



Your jade looks like it needs a bit of light so get it nice and strong before you start a prune

RickRogers
Jun 21, 2020

Woh, is that a thing I like??


Another picture:



I have some close ups of the various sections, bit I need to downscale them first as they are not uploading.
Definitely not had much love the last year's in this tiny pot, cleared out a lot of dead needle's. But I am hopeful I can do something with some part of him!

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



RickRogers posted:

Another picture:



I have some close ups of the various sections, bit I need to downscale them first as they are not uploading.
Definitely not had much love the last year's in this tiny pot, cleared out a lot of dead needle's. But I am hopeful I can do something with some part of him!

depends on what you want, but if it were me I'd probably give him another year or two to grow out in a much larger pot (or plant him in the ground, for maximum rapid growth) before moving him into a first bonsai training pot. The trunk's very thin and immature looking right now, and you may want it to thicken somewhat before really beginning the process. Alternatively, maybe you want a really twisty and windy and curly tree, in which case you might do some trunk wiring this upcoming season. Not really sure. Looking at the trunk again, it's got the beginnings of a neat upright/literati thing going as it is, so I guess you could do a bunch of styling now if you wanted to. Reduce the foofiness of the branches a little bit, and create the visual effect of a really tall trunk, and I'm reminded of a lot of my favorite inspiration trees that I see in New England, especially the old wetland conifers that flank the highways into ME/NH from MA. This is the part where a person's taste, future vision, and goals for the tree have more of an impact than any particular best practices.

definitely give him a cleaning now (not cutting, I just mean brush out the dead leaves), and then repot in early March-early April. Also since it's such a small pot make sure the root ball doesn't accidentally freeze this winter. But you knew that already.

Depending on what you want to do, what your long term goal is, etc, you could clip some of the branches and wire some of the branches and do a bit of an initial styling in early 2021 or not. You might clip off that apical growth at the top if you want the tree to taper at that point, otherwise that part of the stem will thicken up over the course of the year as the branch also puts on mass.

(TLDR- you will probably want to grab a couple of other, different, maybe older, trees during the winter--post Holiday blowouts are good-- in order to set yourself up to experience the wider breadth of scenarios, techniques, and whatnot in 2021. In hindsight I'm really glad I didn't just grab, like, one or two juniper, or a picea, back in March, and that I instead leaned into my hypomania and grabbed some azaleas when presented with the opportunity. It's great to find a cool tree whenever it happens, but it's also kind of a bummer to figure out that it's way too late in the year to do any of the things that you want to do with it.)

Ok Comboomer fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 21, 2020

Solenna
Jun 5, 2003

I'd say it was your manifest destiny not to.



Jestery posted:

In my experience

Lots of sun and vigorous growth promotes lower budding

And had will backbud two buds at the closest lower node

This is a fairly good example of the back budding pattern of jade



Your jade looks like it needs a bit of light so get it nice and strong before you start a prune
Cool thanks! I'll try and keep it in direct sunlight for the few hours of it we get right now. Is there an ideal time of year to prune?

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...



Gave my quince it's first trim!

Really excited at the structure options here, although now that I have pulled back all the really long (like 8-12") shoot I will probably let it grow out for a while to thicken up first. Might repot over a tile next spring.

E: you can see the main trunk of each of those shoots where it is thickest and with minimal taper. I think my plan will be to ultimately chop all of those off at the nearest smaller branch, but I didn't want to prune too much all in one shot.

RickRogers
Jun 21, 2020

Woh, is that a thing I like??


Merry Christmas from me and Terrence

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



RickRogers posted:

Merry Christmas from me and Terrence



Merry Christmas Terrence, hope RickRogers is only keeping you inside on Christmas tree duty for a couple of days max, before bringing you back outside where you belong during winter dormancy, which is super important for conifers.

RickRogers
Jun 21, 2020

Woh, is that a thing I like??


Ok Comboomer posted:

Merry Christmas Terrence, hope RickRogers is only keeping you inside on Christmas tree duty for a couple of days max, before bringing you back outside where you belong during winter dormancy, which is super important for conifers.

Me: look tree I got for Bonsai!

Goode Wife: I got an better idea

He'll be back soon in the garden where all naughty trees belong, promise!

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


Rewired my Ficus and H.patens again after only a month or so

They had been growing very quickly and have already scared slightly on the H. Patens , and I wanted the practice



A few branches on the ficus are starting to fuse and the rear most bough I'm thinking of cutting off, it doesn't really have a place

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

https://twitter.com/AvatarDomy/status/1343163427439710210?s=20

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012


apical dominance my rear end

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL



Peter Chan- " Now this is a very different type of tree... It demand a ~~different~~ philosophy towards pruning now if you were doing this yourself you could form a peak but I think I will try something different today

Progress pic

I'm digging the general shape , and am fairly happy with how it looks

I'm not super happy with the roots on the right hand side,but I will go at it with a craft knife and retain what I like when it is not holding onto so much dirt

Front

Right side

Left


Edit:

My flowers are opening :3



Jestery fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jan 3, 2021

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


Update on my root over brick

He is having his first day without a fabric cover today and the roots seem to be handling it quite well

I've been slowly removing the fabric covering and dutifully misting 2-5 times a day etc sphagnum moss too etc

Cut away some roots on the right and did some artful twisting and positioning




I'm rather happy with it

Next plan is to use a propagated cutting to try speedrun some aerial roots , I'm thinking the whole shebang is a little bias towards the right, and I want to make some interest on the left to balance that

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Canít seem to catch a break with the temperature. When should I aim to water my outdoor trees (juniper, picea, azalea)? They look happy but dry, but with temps dropping to 32 or below every night and most days, Iím scared to water them on a warmer day (itís 36 right now) and have it go below freezing right after.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012


Ok Comboomer posted:

Canít seem to catch a break with the temperature. When should I aim to water my outdoor trees (juniper, picea, azalea)? They look happy but dry, but with temps dropping to 32 or below every night and most days, Iím scared to water them on a warmer day (itís 36 right now) and have it go below freezing right after.

I water on the warmer days with cold water and don't worry if it freezes overnight.

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


Hi there bonsai thread, I have quick question we have another 1-2 months of warm season left when my ficus loves life

I'm trying to produce as much foliage for the coming "winter" ( 20° - 5° )

Would it be a good idea to cut off the growth tips now , so as to develop more growth "downstem" for winter in the coming couple months?

Dude Sweet
Jul 26, 2010


Jestery posted:

Hi there bonsai thread, I have quick question we have another 1-2 months of warm season left when my ficus loves life

I'm trying to produce as much foliage for the coming "winter" ( 20° - 5° )

Would it be a good idea to cut off the growth tips now , so as to develop more growth "downstem" for winter in the coming couple months?



The local WA bonsai club is having a workshop this weekend with a focus on ficus (and pine) so I'd expect that it should be a good time to prune like that.

I'm not familiar enough with ficus to say whether complete defoliation right now is a good idea or not

Personally I'd judge by it's recent health - the last time you pruned, did the cuts split into more than one branch?
If so that's like the tree saying it has enough energy to replace the leaves you cut, and generate extra.
If it only grew back basically the same amount of foliage you cut off and no more, I'd let it accumulate more stored energy before pruning.

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


Dude Sweet posted:

The local WA bonsai club is having a workshop this weekend with a focus on ficus (and pine) so I'd expect that it should be a good time to prune like that.

I'm not familiar enough with ficus to say whether complete defoliation right now is a good idea or not

Personally I'd judge by it's recent health - the last time you pruned, did the cuts split into more than one branch?
If so that's like the tree saying it has enough energy to replace the leaves you cut, and generate extra.
If it only grew back basically the same amount of foliage you cut off and no more, I'd let it accumulate more stored energy before pruning.

Noted , I shall do some observations and make the call

It is the busiest it has ever been I think, since the split I've been crushing little buds in order to keep growth on the wired branches (which have been splitting) to "set" them

I'm mostly worried/concerned about winter being a bit rough if there is insufficient leaf mass. I had a wild animal attack before winter one time that took it down to ¼ desired leaf mass and it was a bit touch and go that season

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012


https://discord.gg/VEr9BrQz

We got a bonsai discord going. Very beginner friendly, very liberal, no room for racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!


Crocoduck posted:

https://discord.gg/VEr9BrQz

We got a bonsai discord going. Very beginner friendly, very liberal, no room for racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.
Ok, but to be fair, a racist and homophobic bonsai group seems like it'd be a helluva thing to see.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Slugworth posted:

Ok, but to be fair, a racist and homophobic bonsai group seems like it'd be a helluva thing to see.

it's not super uncommon, older bonsai people in the West are overwhelmingly dudes and a lot of them are in the 50+ age range. Take a cross-section of boomers with a hobby that can range on the expensive and resource-intensive end (at least on the collecting and high-end keeping and showing side) to the agrarian/horticultural, and don't forget a healthy dollop of Orientalism and "looking Eastward". Getting good at bonsai/keeping high end bonsai isn't cheap. The wealthier ones are almost invariably white or Asian-American, often politically/socially/economically conservative, and a lot of working class older bonsai dudes are white guys with some kind of military connection.

Also for whatever reason a lot of younger bonsai people seem to be bros.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Also you'd be (un)surprised by how FYGM people can get about yamadori collecting

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


Slugworth posted:

Ok, but to be fair, a racist and homophobic bonsai group seems like it'd be a helluva thing to see.

I'm imagining like, root over rock but it's a statue of general Franco, or like an elm wired into a swastika

"Oh me ? Yeah gently caress boomers and consumer culture

This yamadori? Oh I just like collecting rascist trees"

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Crocoduck posted:

https://discord.gg/VEr9BrQz

We got a bonsai discord going. Very beginner friendly, very liberal, no room for racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

Aw hell yes

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020



Bonsai seems pleasant

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009


YOU CAN STOMP US!

YOU CAN SQUASH US!

BUT YOU'LL NEVER EVER STOP US!


Ah crap, the link expired

Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

Look, wiring is great and all but have you tried just burying your trees under 3" of wet, heavy snow?

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


I've got this Japanese maple (don't know which variety, it has red leaves) that has had a bad time of it. The twigs at the top are healthy and producing leaves, but as you can see there's a huge length of trunk with no branches. I'm planning on keeping the tree potted so I'd like to get some branches growing further down the trunk if at all possible. Can anyone point me in the direction of what techniques I'd need to go about doing this? I assume I'll need to graft some of the twigs up top to the trunk, but I've never done anything like that and don't know what I should be researching how to do.

Here's the tree in question:

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL


I know some techniques call for injuring lower down to promote a growth response

But I am no expert on maples someone may be able to help more than I

fuzzy_logic
May 2, 2009

unfortunately hideous and irreverislbe



Stringent posted:

I've got this Japanese maple (don't know which variety, it has red leaves) that has had a bad time of it. The twigs at the top are healthy and producing leaves, but as you can see there's a huge length of trunk with no branches. I'm planning on keeping the tree potted so I'd like to get some branches growing further down the trunk if at all possible. Can anyone point me in the direction of what techniques I'd need to go about doing this? I assume I'll need to graft some of the twigs up top to the trunk, but I've never done anything like that and don't know what I should be researching how to do.

Here's the tree in question:


can't see your picture but if that was any maple but a momiji I'd say prune it back super hard to force it to backbud. Hard as in, remove all the branches and potentially trunk chop, but momiji can be kind of cranky if you prune them too hard.
I'd check if your varietal is apically dominant and how strong that is, because if it's very apically dominant it's really not going to want to bud down low unless you force it to by cutting a ton off. I seem to remember some varietals like growing out horizontally and stuff so those might be more inclined if you just take off new growth and remove all the strong apicals, so you can maybe manage without doing anything as drastic as grafting. There's also always the option of air layering the top off to shorten the trunk but it depends on whether your tree is a graft already because some don't want to grow on their own roots as much.

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Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


fuzzy_logic posted:

can't see your picture but if that was any maple but a momiji I'd say prune it back super hard to force it to backbud. Hard as in, remove all the branches and potentially trunk chop, but momiji can be kind of cranky if you prune them too hard.
I'd check if your varietal is apically dominant and how strong that is, because if it's very apically dominant it's really not going to want to bud down low unless you force it to by cutting a ton off. I seem to remember some varietals like growing out horizontally and stuff so those might be more inclined if you just take off new growth and remove all the strong apicals, so you can maybe manage without doing anything as drastic as grafting. There's also always the option of air layering the top off to shorten the trunk but it depends on whether your tree is a graft already because some don't want to grow on their own roots as much.

Weird, I must have uploaded the photo through the iPhone app. Here's the photo again:



What I've done so far is put cuts in the bark above three of the dormant buds down below. I'd love to just go ahead and air layer it, but I don't want the bottom half to die when I cut the top off so I was hoping to get some lower branch growth in first.

Stringent fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Feb 19, 2021

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