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Drink and Fight
Feb 2, 2003

hoot, hoot, hoot, hoot hoot hoot hoot hoothoothoothoothoothoothoot hoooohootohtothotootothtoto, hoot


Phummus posted:

I'm in the market for an enamelled cast iron dutch oven. Amazon has the lodge 6 quart bad-boy for $50. The 7.5 quart one is $75. Is it worth the extra $25 for the added capacity, or will 6qt do the trick for most applications?

Do not buy Lodge enameled, it's crap now. The enamel started flaking off mine on the third use, and the Lodge customer service person I talked to lied to me and gave me poo poo about it. Thank gently caress for Amazon returns. If you check the reviews, they all go to poo poo after about 2009.

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Phummus
Aug 4, 2006

If I get ten spare bucks, it's going for a 30-pack of Schlitz.

Drink and Fight posted:

Do not buy Lodge enameled, it's crap now. The enamel started flaking off mine on the third use, and the Lodge customer service person I talked to lied to me and gave me poo poo about it. Thank gently caress for Amazon returns. If you check the reviews, they all go to poo poo after about 2009.

Oh wow. Thanks for helping me dodge that bullet. I'll have to check the local antique stores for some oldie but goodies.

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

I would never shop at Costco. The paper towels won't fit into my sports car!

I'm missing why you want enameled, though, instead of just cast iron?

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004

GBS sucks but this avatar is pretty great.


mindphlux posted:


I'm not trying to store cooked fresh pasta? are you asking why I rinse it under cool water? if so, I guess I just read somewhere that it was good to stop the cooking process, even if you were immediately serving - but I've also stopped doing that because it makes the pasta so goddamn dense and chewy.

sorry i just assumed you were shocking it to store for later. you don't need to stop the cooking process of fresh pasta because its the absolute last thing you cook and then you add it straight into the sauce and then eat it.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


Drink and Fight posted:

Do not buy Lodge enameled, it's crap now. The enamel started flaking off mine on the third use, and the Lodge customer service person I talked to lied to me and gave me poo poo about it. Thank gently caress for Amazon returns. If you check the reviews, they all go to poo poo after about 2009.

I bought an enameled 6qt Lodge about 2 years ago and use the hell out of it and it's been absolutely perfect. Only popped off enamel is on the bottom (outside) in one spot. It's possible that I just got lucky, though. For ~$50 though it's honestly worth the risk compared to $250 for a Le Creuset.




e: The best idea is probably to buy a used Le Creuset off of craigslist. I got a 7.5qt for $110 last summer.

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



They'll carry Le Creuset at Marshalls/Ross every now and then, they're usually going for about 70-90 depending on size.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Lodge 6qt is available at Ralph's for $40

Drink and Fight
Feb 2, 2003

hoot, hoot, hoot, hoot hoot hoot hoot hoothoothoothoothoothoothoot hoooohootohtothotootothtoto, hoot


Hypnolobster posted:

I bought an enameled 6qt Lodge about 2 years ago and use the hell out of it and it's been absolutely perfect. Only popped off enamel is on the bottom (outside) in one spot. It's possible that I just got lucky, though. For ~$50 though it's honestly worth the risk compared to $250 for a Le Creuset.




e: The best idea is probably to buy a used Le Creuset off of craigslist. I got a 7.5qt for $110 last summer.

Yeah, apparently some time right around then they moved manufacturing to China, and since then it's nothing but complaints.

Phummus
Aug 4, 2006

If I get ten spare bucks, it's going for a 30-pack of Schlitz.

Mr. Wiggles posted:

I'm missing why you want enameled, though, instead of just cast iron?

Its my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I plan on doing a lot of tomato based, or heavily acidic dishes, that enameled is the better option?

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

I would never shop at Costco. The paper towels won't fit into my sports car!

Phummus posted:

Its my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I plan on doing a lot of tomato based, or heavily acidic dishes, that enameled is the better option?

I suppose that's the theory, but I don't pay attention to it. I don't have any enameled stuff.

Drink and Fight
Feb 2, 2003

hoot, hoot, hoot, hoot hoot hoot hoot hoothoothoothoothoothoothoot hoooohootohtothotootothtoto, hoot


Mr. Wiggles posted:

I suppose that's the theory, but I don't pay attention to it. I don't have any enameled stuff.

You also don't have running water, electricity, or modern medicine, but some people just like to live the cush life okay?

Phummus
Aug 4, 2006

If I get ten spare bucks, it's going for a 30-pack of Schlitz.

Is the whole tomato/acid is bad to cook in non-enameled iron just a suburban legend?

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

I would never shop at Costco. The paper towels won't fit into my sports car!

gently caress you I do too have running water

When the creek isn't frozen over

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


Phummus posted:

Is the whole tomato/acid is bad to cook in non-enameled iron just a suburban legend?
It's not an urban legend, but it's not like a dutch oven (or even its seasoning) is going to dissolve if you do a tomato sauce in it. I do it all the time. It's really only going to be an issue if that's all you ever do, and you never do any re-seasoning.

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



Why not just stainless steel pot for acidic sauces? I still don't get the enamelware appeal.

I only have an enameled terrine, I should use it more. I vote terrine for the next COOK OR DIE.

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

I would never shop at Costco. The paper towels won't fit into my sports car!

I've never seen a stainless pot with the thermal heft of a cast iron dutch oven.

Force de Fappe
Nov 7, 2008



Would you care to give me a breakdown of the term "thermal heft" from the perspective of Newtonian physics plz

Jay Carney
Mar 23, 2007

If you do that you will die on the toilet.


What is everyone making for Fat Tuesday? I was thinking shrimp etoufee.

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



Halalelujah posted:

What is everyone making for Fat Tuesday? I was thinking shrimp etoufee.

I am going to do a tasting for the caterer for my weeding.

Mr. Wiggles posted:

I've never seen a stainless pot with the thermal heft of a cast iron dutch oven.

What's the point of thermal capacitance for acidic sauces in a dutch oven? Pretty much anything you could do in an enameled dutch oven you can do in a stainless steel stock pot, and the things you can't, you can do in a non enameled cast iron dutch oven.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


GrAviTy84 posted:

What's the point of thermal capacitance for acidic sauces in a dutch oven?
Chili is the obvious one. It's a stew and so you'd prefer a dutch oven over a stock pot for it for the same reasons you would for any stew.

Daeren
Aug 17, 2009

YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED


I didn't even remember today was Mardi Gras until I went to dinner and the student dining hall was dishing out gumbo, which only happens once in a blue moon and is the only thing they always do right.

I'm probably going to be making GBS threads flames later tonight but it was worth it.

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

I would never shop at Costco. The paper towels won't fit into my sports car!

Sjurygg posted:

Would you care to give me a breakdown of the term "thermal heft" from the perspective of Newtonian physics plz

p = ij + your mom

Halalelujah posted:

What is everyone making for Fat Tuesday? I was thinking shrimp etoufee.

Knights of Columbus are doing the cooking, hundreds of people are coming to an ecumenical pancake dinner.

SubG posted:

Chili is the obvious one. It's a stew and so you'd prefer a dutch oven over a stock pot for it for the same reasons you would for any stew.

Something like a Sunday ragu, as well.

big dyke energy
Jul 29, 2006

Football? Yaaaay


Halalelujah posted:

What is everyone making for Fat Tuesday? I was thinking shrimp etoufee.

I wanted packzis but the bakeries were all sold out when I went.

So, beef stew. Not in the Fat Tuesday spirit, I am a failure.

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



SubG posted:

Chili is the obvious one. It's a stew and so you'd prefer a dutch oven over a stock pot for it for the same reasons you would for any stew.

and what reasons would that be? Only ones I've heard were and not

bloody ghost titty
Oct 23, 2008

tHROW SOME D"s ON THAT BIZNATCH


First person to order a hurricane at the bar tonight takes it in the shins.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.


GrAviTy84 posted:

and what reasons would that be? Only ones I've heard were and not
A cast iron dutch oven buffers heat better than an aluminium stock pot does, and is therefore better at maintaining an low, even temperature over a long period of time. The mechanics are something like the argument for a puddle machine over a conventional oven---the cast iron is good at conducting heat to the food being cooked, and its large thermal mass makes it inherently stable. In both cases this doesn't work unless you've got reasonably good control over the work cycle of your heat source (the electric heater in a puddle machine or the electric coil/gas element in a conventional oven or range), but no matter how well your heat source is instrumented, you're going to make it work less the more efficient you make the rest of the cooking system. This is the same reason a good crockpot will use a earthenware or cast iron pot, and for that matter why stews and braises work the way they do (that is, why you have a bunch of cooking liquid in those things you want to cook low and slow), and why so many other kinds of traditional slow cooking do things like burying the food (basically turning the ground into a giant earthenware radiator and heat reservoir). Same thing for the design of brick ovens, and things like autoclaves and kilns and modern forges and so on.

I can get into the fiddly thermodynamic horseshit involving heat capacity and conductivity if you really want, but I'm not sure how useful that would be here for building an intuitive feel for what's happening.

mich
Feb 28, 2003
I may be racist but I'm the good kind of racist! You better put down those chopsticks, you HITLER!


No special Mardi Gras dinner but I did make a King Cake that I've been snacking on and probably going to spoil my dinner on. Thought it was going to be super dry because I fell asleep while baking it but thankfully it was just a tad overbaked.

TerryLennox
Oct 12, 2009

There is nothing tougher than a tough Mexican, just as there is nothing gentler than a gentle Mexican, nothing more honest than an honest Mexican, and above all nothing sadder than a sad Mexican. -R. Chandler.


I just had a venison sandwich with hummus and swiss cheese. It was pretty baller.

Is there a substitute for Juniper berries on recipes? They kind of don't grow in the tropics.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

TerryLennox posted:


Please tell me your user name is a Chandler reference. Please.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004


Sjurygg posted:

Would you care to give me a breakdown of the term "thermal heft" from the perspective of Newtonian physics plz

lol

TerryLennox posted:

Is there a substitute for Juniper berries on recipes? They kind of don't grow in the tropics.

a: https://www.orderthemontheinternet.com
or
b: throw in some gin

i shoot friendlies
Jun 25, 2007


Phummus posted:

Its my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I plan on doing a lot of tomato based, or heavily acidic dishes, that enameled is the better option?

I cook something tomato based almost every day. Often in cast iron. Been doing that for 20 years. No problems so far.

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



SubG posted:

A cast iron dutch oven buffers heat better than an aluminium stock pot does, and is therefore better at maintaining an low, even temperature over a long period of time. The mechanics are something like the argument for a puddle machine over a conventional oven---the cast iron is good at conducting heat to the food being cooked, and its large thermal mass makes it inherently stable. In both cases this doesn't work unless you've got reasonably good control over the work cycle of your heat source (the electric heater in a puddle machine or the electric coil/gas element in a conventional oven or range), but no matter how well your heat source is instrumented, you're going to make it work less the more efficient you make the rest of the cooking system. This is the same reason a good crockpot will use a earthenware or cast iron pot, and for that matter why stews and braises work the way they do (that is, why you have a bunch of cooking liquid in those things you want to cook low and slow), and why so many other kinds of traditional slow cooking do things like burying the food (basically turning the ground into a giant earthenware radiator and heat reservoir). Same thing for the design of brick ovens, and things like autoclaves and kilns and modern forges and so on.

I can get into the fiddly thermodynamic horseshit involving heat capacity and conductivity if you really want, but I'm not sure how useful that would be here for building an intuitive feel for what's happening.

I'm gonna call shenanigans. A good quality clad pan (with a copper or aluminum core) will conduct heat across the entire cooking surface, cast iron is more likely to develop hot spots since its conductivity is less than half that of aluminum and almost 1/4 that of copper. Unless you're riding your burner knob, the heat output is going to be consistent. All this is pointless anyway for a classical braise so I stand by my original statement: anything you can do in an enamelware dutch you can do just as well in a stainless steel or in a non enamel cast iron. If you need super spergy braise temps, you're gonna puddle.

You can go into thermodynamic "horseshit" if you want. I'm ABD on a Physics PhD so...

i shoot friendlies
Jun 25, 2007


GrAviTy84 posted:

I'm gonna call shenanigans. A good quality clad pan (with a copper or aluminum core) will conduct heat across the entire cooking surface, cast iron is more likely to develop hot spots since its conductivity is less than half that of aluminum and almost 1/4 that of copper. Unless you're riding your burner knob, the heat output is going to be consistent. All this is pointless anyway for a classical braise so I stand by my original statement: anything you can do in an enamelware dutch you can do just as well in a stainless steel or in a non enamel cast iron. If you need super spergy braise temps, you're gonna puddle.

You can go into thermodynamic "horseshit" if you want. I'm ABD on a Physics PhD so...

I think mass matters, though...

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



i shoot friendlies posted:

I think mass matters, though...

for what? Heat capacitance? Is it on the heat or not? Are you cooking outdoors in the Arctic? I mean, if you wanna drop a load on something that is only more useful for bragging rights than actual cooking, go right ahead.

i shoot friendlies
Jun 25, 2007


GrAviTy84 posted:

for what? Heat capacitance? Is it on the heat or not? Are you cooking outdoors in the Arctic? I mean, if you wanna drop a load on something that is only more useful for bragging rights than actual cooking, go right ahead.

Well, an aluminum skillet weight, maybe a pound. A cast iron skillet weighs, maybe ten pounds. It takes a lot more energy to change the temp on ten pounds than on one pound, in either direction. Maybe you can write your dissertation on that...

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004


GrAviTy84 posted:

for what? Heat capacitance? Is it on the heat or not? Are you cooking outdoors in the Arctic? I mean, if you wanna drop a load on something that is only more useful for bragging rights than actual cooking, go right ahead.

I'm not on a physics PhD, but if I have a giant inch thick piece of cast iron heated to 400 degees, and I slap a chicken breast on it - all other variables suspended - in 1 minute the surface temperature of the cast iron is going to be a lot closer to the original 400 than if I have a giant piece of tin foil heated to 400 degrees, slap a chicken breast on it and wait for a minute.

I think that's what he meant by 'mass matters' and what subg was saying about buffering heat.

GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



editing for emphasis because people are turning this from enamelware to all of castiron debate.

i shoot friendlies posted:

Well, an aluminum skillet weight, maybe a pound. A cast iron skillet weighs, maybe ten pounds. It takes a lot more energy to change the temp on ten pounds than on one pound, in either direction. Maybe you can write your dissertation on that...

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying so I'll say it again but differently. Are you cooking on coals or something that is so variable over the course of the cooking time that you need that much heat capacitance? Are you cooking in a place whose ambient temperature can make the sides of a pot decrease in temperature so significantly (this is arguably more of a problem for cast iron than stainless clad copper, see conduction). What you don't seem to get is that that extra weight is actually just useless for a majority of tasks. Now you're kind of getting off topic, this was an enamelware dutch oven discussion not a skillet discussion, not a cast iron vs stainless discussion, a very specific enamelware dutch oven discussion. Maybe you should just go back to sous viding whole rib roasts and poisoning your family.

Edit again: I will return to my original request, what is something that you can do in an enamelware dutch oven that you can't do in a stainless pot or a standard non enamel cast iron dutch oven?

GrAviTy84 fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2012 around 03:01

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004


GrAviTy84 posted:

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying so I'll say it again but differently. Are you cooking on coals or something that is so variable over the course of the cooking time that you need that much heat capacitance?

What you don't seem to get is that that extra weight is actually just useless for a majority of tasks.

dude what are you talking about? I know I'm interjecting myself into this debate and you aren't even really arguing with me, AND I don't even own any cast iron at the moment (need to fix) BUT

are you serious? 'heat capacitance' or whatever is incredibly useful! have you ever tried to crisp poultry skin in a pan whose temperature fluctuates wildly? (flaccid skin, sticks to bottom of the pan) what about deep fry in a thin stainless pot? (temperature of oil on bottom is way hotter than rest of pot, crumbs burn to poo poo ruining the entire thing of oil), or make a risotto or really rice of any sort where you need slow steady heat? heat capacitance even matters for stuff like boiling water! (steadier rolling boil = greener, crisper, quicker cooked vegetables)

just about every situation I can even think of involving heating a pan could benefit from extra heat capacitance - I mean I don't always use the heaviest pan I have due to practicality reasons - but in an ideal world if I could be arsed to clean and lug out dense as poo poo pans for even tiny tasks? hell yeah, absolutely!

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004


also gently caress enameled cast iron, copper is where its at. dense as poo poo thick rear end heavy cunting copper.

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GrAviTy84
Nov 24, 2004



mindphlux posted:

dude what are you talking about? I know I'm interjecting myself into this debate and you aren't even really arguing with me, AND I don't even own any cast iron at the moment (need to fix) BUT

are you serious? 'heat capacitance' or whatever is incredibly useful! have you ever tried to crisp poultry skin in a pan whose temperature fluctuates wildly? (flaccid skin, sticks to bottom of the pan) what about deep fry in a thin stainless pot? (temperature of oil on bottom is way hotter than rest of pot, crumbs burn to poo poo ruining the entire thing of oil), or make a risotto or really rice of any sort where you need slow steady heat?


this can all be done in a normal cast iron skillet or dutch oven, it does not require an enameled surface.

As an aside, do people really have that big of a problem with stainless and aluminum pans? I've never had a problem with them, and I know they use them day in day out in restaurants around the world. Again, I'm not saying that cast iron is useless, I am saying enamelware is.

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