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Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)

pnumoman posted:

No one's arguing that they have a great solution that can be implemented immediately, or that things aren't vastly better than they were in the past. But improvement in working conditions happened because people were not content with the status quo; you seem to be arguing that it's pointless to get upset and work towards change unless you can do it all in one go. That's a really short-sighted and frankly dumb position.

"It's better than it was before" is a ridiculous justification for not wanting things to improve further.

And a goon shouts, "Foul! Strawman argument: no-one besides a true sociapath or power mad narcisist wants things to stay bad or get worse" The opposing idea gets a cast:

The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy; it consists in tracing the consequences of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups.
When economics and law treat everyone equally, then there is no need for special consideration except for the people who are truly unable to compete, and even they may have something to contribute. IF markets are allowed to stabilize and work to fulfill actual needs instead of react to some or another legislation designed to "fix" things life will get better on its own because it is both ECONOMICALLY and SOCIALLY a good idea. Remember, "fixing" things is how we got here in the first place.

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Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)

SubG posted:

More Gilded Age arguments. I'm curious, however, if your argument is that no workers today should be complaining because their conditions are better than they used to be, why you're putting `fixing' in scare quotes there.

I'm also none too sure about what that `here' refers to, as I find it seriously difficult to think up any line of argument that lays the blame for the current general economic situation on too much regulation (of all things), apart from purely empty reflexive jingoism. But that's probably too much of a derail for even this thread.

There was no gilded age, though there was a time not too long ago where someone who worked was not taxed and regulated so much, and if you wanted to start a business you did not have to kiss some bureaucrat’s ring and pay-off the county commissioners. Was everyone guaranteed success? No. Were people able to try for it? yes. Are people able to do that now? Depends on local regulations. Is it better? Define better.

I have never said that workers should not complain or try to make conditions better, (FOUL! Strawman argument again!) I will claim that workers are less able to better themselves today. If they belong to a union they are not able to negotiate in their own interest, they have so called experts who do that for them. There are fewer jobs due to a contracting job market. The education system is churning out functionally illiterate, undereducated graduates that need to take Math 083 to get up to speed at college and do not know what the electoral college is, who James Polk was and cannot balance a checkbook. And if they overcome those issues, they can’t go into business for themselves because the licensing and registration load is greater than any expected initial profit.

As for the amount of regulation, try this.

Pretend you are going to set up a distillery, employing 3 people in your garage.
Call the state corporation division, ask for the cost to become an associated business name, a limited liability corporation and a domestic business corporation
Call the workers comp people. Ask them how much you have to pay in the first couple of years for the workers comp.
Call the workplace safety people, find out what you have to do to comply with their regs and what inspections cost.
Call unemployment benefits people, ask what the quarterly payments are.
Call the Environmental quality people, ask them what you have to do to comply with their rules and ask how much the inspection is
Call the county, ask what regulations you have to comply with
Call the city, ask them if you will comply with their zoning
Does your state have a liquor control commission? What do you need to make them sweet?
Call the ATF, find out what rules YOU MUST comply with and the amounts you have to pay so they don’t send the rev-noors after you.
Call the IRS, find out what your quarterly payments are based on, and what requirements you have under the various laws and acts to do for banking and reporting of earnings
Call Child Support, find out about complying with any future garnishment orders.

Now imagine doing this because you are going to make and sell snowboard accessories to make beer money and tuition.

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)
TL/DR:

Ooh, I dropped my toast on the ground. If I eat it will I get Cooties?

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)
Help! do I wash out my mouth with aguardiente or with bechamel sauce!

No I feel them now, type faster!

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)

SubG posted:

Ah, the good old days when there were no child labour laws and a company could hire armed mercenaries to gun down labour organisers.


Wow, what country was enslaving children and gunning down labor organizers in the 50’s and 60's? Oh, right, Albania, sorry. I’m going to have to call foul on a third offense of a strawman argument: Only a sociopath or a narcissistic dictator with dreams of world conquest would be in favor of that.

Also please don’t attribute i shoot friendlies’s posts to me.

And if you really want to talk about my fantasies, they tend to include more Indonesian women than compliance with zoning ordinances, but it is a matter of taste, like the lady said when she kissed a cow.

Working conditions are always worth discussing, but I have yet to see passing laws, regulations and policy statements actually make things better. They are more likely to drive companies out of business and, “shrink the universe of available jobs” (as I believe the Department of Commerce so carefully puts it).
Actually, I thought I said that I thought that Mother Jones thought it was worthy of discussing because it was a non-union shop, and any stick works to beat that dog.

Do we want to continue this here? I’d rather make fun of Happy Hat and his struggles with the English Language

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)
I buy those and cook the carcass down with a pressure cooker, but I add in a tablespoon of vinegar to cook out the marrow and the collagen from the bones. I run it through a strainer and pick out the meat to add back in later. It sounds goulish, but when you do this you wind up with stock that wobbles like jello in the fridge.

I add celery and carrots and onions as a sort of garni that gets strained out with the bones, and add more veggies when I add the meat back in with potatoes. It is a great use for the back, wings, and the ever famous "chicken butt".

I'll be doing this next month with a friend who wants help learning to use her pressure cooker. (last month we made gedamptefleish with apricots in a pressure cooker 'cause her gramma used to make it)

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)

SubG posted:

Do you consider the outlawing of slavery to have made things better?

Tanzan and Ekido were once travelling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.

Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.

"Come on, girl," said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.

Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't do near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"

"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)

SubG posted:

That's the way I was leaning, but hey, maybe I'm just missing something. On the one hand I see that laws and regulations have ended slavery, ended child labour, prevented violence against labour organisers, and so on. On the other hand we have Rule .303's fantasy scenario in which it turns out laws and regulations can be kinda inconvenient.

I must be missing something. Being opposed to slavery is probably a strawman or something.

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"
"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)

EVG posted:

I finally had enough carcasses to make stock, and it was a-wigglin' away in the fridge, and I realized that I have no idea what to do with it. Not in the mood for soup, I froze it in cubes and I guess I'll figure it out at some point...

You can make some interesting variations on rissotto or cook up some broth with couscous or bulgar. I don't like it with egg noodles, which is odd since I tend to eat anything.

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)
Oops. Wrong thread.

sorry

Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)

homerlaw posted:

On the downside: I got Jalapeno in my eye.
On the upside: It hurts less than last time.

Related question, is there any way I can be less affected by raw onions? I love the taste, but I can't cook with them without darting in and out of the kitchen to wash out my eyes.

In Like Water for Chocolate it was suggested that you put the cut end of the onion on your head to keep from crying.
This, of course, does not work. But it is fun to watch people try it.

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Rule .303
Dec 9, 2011
(Instructions are just some other guy's opinion)
I had an Environmental Sciences Prof who had worked on a breakdown of inferred "commercial extinction" of various New England fisheries by the arc of their prices, exclusion, replacement by other species, and inferring the regeneration of the fisheries by their re-inclusion on high end restaurant menus for the 1800's and early 1900's. Really fascinating study.

Not to mention the fun of figuring out what dish had what in it.

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