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Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


I can't imagine people willingly buying new Oracle stuff when given the chance. I'd rather not use software than have to deal with Oracle.

"Yes I would gladly pay a lot of money to a vendor and get abused everytime they think of some new licensing trickery."

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evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



The point is for many BI problems you don't have much of a choice.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


evil_bunnY posted:

The point is for many BI problems you don't have much of a choice.

I don't know. Aren't there a applications from IBM and the like?

But then you are trading IBM for Oracle, which is worse?

Tab8715
May 20, 2006

NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR YOUR NIGHTCORE GARBAGE, MORON

adorai posted:

they bought sun so they could sue google.

Heh, there's the newer Oracle vs. IBM lawsuit but I haven't had time to dig into that one.

NippleFloss posted:

Oracle is everywhere. Building new apps on Oracle is less common, but there's plenty of existing apps out there that run on it that will be around for a long time and will still be running on Oracle for all of it because change is difficult.

Agreed, but it seems they've recognized they've got all their clients in a bind, their actively exploiting them and not in a good way.

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

I don't know. Aren't there a applications from IBM and the like?

But then you are trading IBM for Oracle, which is worse?

At the end of the day technology companies are just corporations but some are better than others.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Tab8715 posted:

At the end of the day technology companies are just corporations but some are better than others.

And they all seem to be trying their best to actively piss off customers it seems.

I don't understand why pissing off you customers looks like a good plan to these companies, don't they understand they will be dropped like a bad habit when it is feasible?
And with the whole industry in flux like it is it seems like a smart move to keep your customers happy that they chose your technology stack.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget

Grimey Drawer

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

And they all seem to be trying their best to actively piss off customers it seems.

I don't understand why pissing off you customers looks like a good plan to these companies, don't they understand they will be dropped like a bad habit when it is feasible?
And with the whole industry in flux like it is it seems like a smart move to keep your customers happy that they chose your technology stack.
They are beholden to their shareholders. Those shareholders want short term returns over long term customer retention.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



adorai posted:

They are beholden to their shareholders. Those shareholders want short term returns over long term customer retention.
This is literally all of it. Next quarter matters a shitload more than next year.

DevNull
Apr 4, 2007

And sometimes is seen a strange spot in the sky
A human being that was given to fly



Tab8715 posted:

Heh, there's the newer Oracle vs. IBM lawsuit but I haven't had time to dig into that one.


Agreed, but it seems they've recognized they've got all their clients in a bind, their actively exploiting them and not in a good way.


At the end of the day technology companies are just corporations but some are better than others.

Pretty much every engineer in Silicon Valley is aware of this as well, so none of them want to go to work for Oracle. That means they will never develop good software again, they just have to keep exploiting.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

I'm having an unusual problem with a VM. It was previously mounting an ISO on the host's local storage. That's been changed to client device, but the VM insists that it's still using the local datastore for something. I've confirmed the virtual disks are both on the SAN, and I don't see any mention of the local datastore in the vmx file either. I've tried mounting and unmounting ISOs from a variety of locations, but I can't seem to break that connection. Any ideas what might be causing this? This is an exchange server, and is currently stuck on its current host due to this ghost datastore connection, which obviously is not desirable.

e: pretty sure I've figured it out. There's an old snapshot on the VM, which will hang on to that datastore reference even after you switch to client or host drive. We're going to wait until tonight to delete it, but hopefully that will solve the problem.

stubblyhead fucked around with this message at May 18, 2016 around 22:25

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."


Goodbye C# client, hello HTML5 client.

http://blogs.vmware.com/vsphere/201...ello-html5.html

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Fun Shoe

Mr-Spain
Aug 27, 2003

Bullshit... you can be mine.

Dumb question, but here goes. Say I have two connections to a NIC and both of those are on the same vswitch. Do I need to put those in a LACP group on my switch?

Any quick and dirty vmware networking guides out there?

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003




Bison_YES_YES.mpg

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."


Mr-Spain posted:

Dumb question, but here goes. Say I have two connections to a NIC and both of those are on the same vswitch. Do I need to put those in a LACP group on my switch?

Any quick and dirty vmware networking guides out there?

The depends on the load balance policy on the vswitch. If your switch is set to load balance based on originating port ID, which is the default, then you do not need any special switch configuration. The IP hash load balance mechanism implies that you have an etherchannel configured on the switch side. For standard vSwitches that will be a static etherchannel, for DVswitches it will be LACP.

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles



LACP will provide more aggregate bandwidth to a single VM and is a bit better/faster when it comes to detecting and recovering from a failed link but if you're doing a home lab the default is probably fine but LACP is good practice if your hardware supports it.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

It's called a hassle, sweetheart..



The HTML5 interface is pretty great. I've had some bugs but I expect that with flings. You have no idea how much I'm looking forward to that experience translating to the vSphere web client.

I've actually gotten so used to the flash client that I prefer it to the C# one for just about everything. It's not super responsive but the memory of C# responsiveness has faded with time so I don't even complain about that anymore.

I'm just praying that they finally support this on Safari so I can stop seeing



every time I log in. It's actually worked 100% fine for the past two or so years but it still annoys me every time I see it

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

Martytoof posted:

I've actually gotten so used to the flash client that I prefer it to the C# one for just about everything. It's not super responsive but the memory of C# responsiveness has faded with time so I don't even complain about that anymore.
lmao, this is the most stockholm syndrome thing I've ever read. "it's not so bad once you forget how good the older version was"

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.


This is gonna be fun when Chrome blocks Flash for most websites later this year.

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles



I've been having a spat of VMs rebooting and getting new NICs with no IPs while the old ones show as disconnected in device manager. There's a VMware kb from back in the 4.0/4.1 days that blames this on the hotplug feature and their "solution" is to disable it globally for the VM which sounds like a huge pain in the rear end. Is there something goofy going on with the latest tools release? I tested the 2008r2 rollup on 8 systems yesterday and five of them came up with new nics and no network access and I'm terrified over what is going to happen after next patch week. We had one do it in with May patches but it seemed like an isolated incident at that point.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

It's called a hassle, sweetheart..



Bhodi posted:

lmao, this is the most stockholm syndrome thing I've ever read. "it's not so bad once you forget how good the older version was"

I only mentioned the speed of the C# client, not that it was in any other way better than the flash UI. I preferred the convenience and aesthetics of the flash UI from day one, but Flash itself is a bloated technology so it was never going to break any speed records.

I'd trade in a loading bar every now and then to not have to RDP from my macbook into a Windows machine to run the C# client anyway.

Martytoof fucked around with this message at May 19, 2016 around 18:49

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles



BangersInMyKnickers posted:

I've been having a spat of VMs rebooting and getting new NICs with no IPs while the old ones show as disconnected in device manager. There's a VMware kb from back in the 4.0/4.1 days that blames this on the hotplug feature and their "solution" is to disable it globally for the VM which sounds like a huge pain in the rear end. Is there something goofy going on with the latest tools release? I tested the 2008r2 rollup on 8 systems yesterday and five of them came up with new nics and no network access and I'm terrified over what is going to happen after next patch week. We had one do it in with May patches but it seemed like an isolated incident at that point.

My current theory is that the 2008R2 rollup (KB3125574) is bundled with hotfix KB2846340 https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/2846340 which is designed to cleanup instances where a new NIC is initialized during driver updates and this is doing something funky with either the template/sysprep process and the old vNIC from there or whatever happens when the NIC driver gets updated with VMware Tools patches and it ends up selecting the wrong disconnected interface from device manager to use as the primary which results in your static IP config getting lost and buried. The problem only seems to occur after installation of the rollup and only once. Be wary and test if you've imported the rollup to your catalog.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


I'm that guy who only opens the web client if I have to.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

As a frequent Linux user, it's nice not to have to keep a Windows VM on the side just for ESXi administration. Now I can even manage VMs from my Chromebook.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Early on it was garbage. In 5.5 it was slightly less garbage. In 6.0 I think it's actually pretty decent, aside from the fact it's flash based.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

stubblyhead posted:

Early on it was garbage. In 5.5 it was slightly less garbage. In 6.0 I think it's actually pretty decent, aside from the fact it's flash based.

It's HTML5-based, isn't it?

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles



There's an HTML5 console that took until 2 months ago to actually work properly so you could click on the bottom 1/3 of the screen and a ton of the regular UI is flash which seems to cause memory leaks if you leave it up too long. It's bad.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

HPL posted:

As a frequent Linux user, it's nice not to have to keep a Windows VM on the side just for ESXi administration. Now I can even manage VMs from my Chromebook.

FYI -- libvirt is surprisingly capable for basic tasks. It falls down if it needs interaction, and can't manage vswitches/etc at all, but for creating/starting/stopping/migrating VMs, libvirt works. Not that you need it now, but if you still have an older VMware environment somewhere...

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

evol262 posted:

FYI -- libvirt is surprisingly capable for basic tasks. It falls down if it needs interaction, and can't manage vswitches/etc at all, but for creating/starting/stopping/migrating VMs, libvirt works. Not that you need it now, but if you still have an older VMware environment somewhere...

Holy crap, I had no idea libvirt could manage ESXi VMs. Consider my mind blown. Still, the 6.0 web app is pretty good. There's some functionality missing from it that is in the Windows client, but I'm sure that'll be along shortly.

Before the web fling came along, I used to ssh into my ESXi host and do my basic VM management from there.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

What is there in the fat client that still isn't in the web client? The last bastion I can think of was VUM, and it runs pretty nice in the web client now.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


stubblyhead posted:

What is there in the fat client that still isn't in the web client? The last bastion I can think of was VUM, and it runs pretty nice in the web client now.

Speed?

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007



Lipstick Apathy


This is very cool; I should be able to drop my windows VM from my Macbook once I get this running (home use), correct?

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

GobiasIndustries posted:

This is very cool; I should be able to drop my windows VM from my Macbook once I get this running (home use), correct?

It doesn't have 100% of the functionality of the Windows client yet, so you may want to hang on to it a little longer until you can confirm that the HTML5 client does everything you need it to.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


I just deployed the HTML5 web client appliance to my home lab and it is drat sexy. I am not able to resize the bottom panel though which makes it tough on my MacBook Air's smaller resolution, but overall very fast and responsive.

Since I use a Mac for work, this is a very welcomed advancement because I am always RDP'd into a Windows VM to use the thick client along side the 6.0u2 web client.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Fun Shoe

Is there any reason not to be mildly excited about Hyperconverged Storage Spaces Direct?

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

It's Hyper-v? Nothing against Hyper-v, but I wish they'd finally support nested virt, and make Gen2 VMs running non-Microsoft operating systems less of a PITA.

The RDMA or pair of NICs requirement is odd to me. I hope their best practices document suggests a more robust configuration. iWARP (which is probably what they're suggesting instead of ib or rcoe) is ok, but I dunno.

IMO, a hyperconverged solution which requires specific hardware for the backend kind of misses the point (something which handles it all on relatively generic hardware), but it's interesting anyway, and I'd guess most clients who want to run this already have the infrastructure anyway.

Tab8715
May 20, 2006

NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR YOUR NIGHTCORE GARBAGE, MORON

On the same subject and cross-posting,

Is there a fundamental difference between Windows 10 Hyper-V and Windows Server Hyper-V aside from things like FT / HA?

I bought an Intel Nuc for a home lab. Low and behold I can't add additional Ethernet drivers without hacking Windows Driver Validation. I just want to run VMs on an independent VLAN with the least amount of managerial overhead for a personal lab environment.

I want this setup. Obviously, my home lab isn't directly exposed to the internet but with a P2S VPN in theory this will all come together.

Tab8715 fucked around with this message at May 24, 2016 around 04:52

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Windows 10 Hyper-V doesn't do NIC teaming. But overall, Windows 10 is surprisingly powerful.

Maneki Neko
Oct 27, 2000



evol262 posted:

It's Hyper-v? Nothing against Hyper-v, but I wish they'd finally support nested virt, and make Gen2 VMs running non-Microsoft operating systems less of a PITA.

Server 2016 does bring nested virt

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

About time. I guess I haven't been keeping up.

Then I looked:

quote:

Both hypervisors need to be the latest Windows Insider build (10565 or greater). Other hypervisors will not work.

This feature is currently Intel-only. Intel VT-x is required.


Just why? SVM is a little easier to implement nested virt on, but I can't fathom the "nested client must be Hyper-v" requirement unless they're not actually exposing vt-x to the guest and it's some bizarre syscall which invokes a hypercall on the parent.

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evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



Because it's more important to have the feature bullet point than have it be useful. IE, why most people only run MS hypervisors because the financials make sense for windows shops.

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