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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Our Pure arrays have been amazing.

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Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

I am quite pissed at my fat man avatar.
I am too politically correct to say this out loud though.
I yearn for a reason to exist.
Help.


Fun Shoe

The whole "upside-down pyramid" thing is a bit of a trigger since it's all that Spiceworks guy goes on about when he's telling people to have all their VMs stored locally and if you need lots of storage then shove a load of SATA disks into an HP Proliant and share it from Windows.

A proper SAN with dual paths from the hosts to the controllers to the disks is no more of a giant risk than, as above, the power supply into the room or the AC, or the structural integrity of the single beam holding up the floor above. At some point you need to say you have enough redundancy and shift your focus onto how to recover from a catastrophic failure.

Spring Heeled Jack
Feb 25, 2007


YOLOsubmarine posted:

All your equipment is probably sitting in one room which is a more likely failure domain than a storage array. Even ďshared nothingĒ distributed storage systems like Starwind, VSAN, etc can still fail globally via bugs in the data or control plane, network outages, etc...

Modern arrays are build to provide five-to-six nines of availability. Unless youíre a hospital or financial institution thatís probably plenty and you probably donít have the budget to purchase a solution that can tear that number.

Talk to Pure or Nimble. Tegile is ZFS with a new coat of paint and developers that donít know what theyíre doing. Starwind has like a dozen customers.

I agree with this, my manager is the one obsessed with a second unit but I think I can dissuade him. That money would be better spent modernizing our backup/retention process.

CDW is our POC for Nimble and Tegile, so we will see what they come up with. Iíve seen only good things about Tegile pricing and performance, but maybe they have a good guerrilla marketing team.

Edit: oh god, S.A.M from spiceworks? Itís a good possibility thatís where he got the idea.

Spring Heeled Jack fucked around with this message at May 3, 2018 around 23:50

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

Breaux, Breaux, you seen a defense around here anywhere!?


Spring Heeled Jack posted:

I agree with this, my manager is the one obsessed with a second unit but I think I can dissuade him. That money would be better spent modernizing our backup/retention process.

CDW is our POC for Nimble and Tegile, so we will see what they come up with. Iíve seen only good things about Tegile pricing and performance, but maybe they have a good guerrilla marketing team.

Edit: oh god, S.A.M from spiceworks? Itís a good possibility thatís where he got the idea.

We resell Tegile and I get money from them directly to incentivize selling their stuff and I still hate doing it. Their marketing is a sham and their hybrid products fall over badly in a number of situations. Itís the only storage vendor we have other than NetApp from years ago where we routinely have customers suffering performance issues.

Itís possible your experience with it might be fine, but why take the chance when thereís other things out there that are just as inexpensive and will not fall over because you took too many snapshots, or your deduplication metadata grew unexpectedly and evicted most of your cache, or your file system is fragmented from steady use and the only fix is to get another shelf and build a new pool to move the data to...

Also, Pure is the best of the bunch if you can afford it. They also have an active/active synchronous replication technology that provides true zero RPO redundancy across a metro area. So your boss can see what it actually costs to try and architect around a full array failure.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget

Grimey Drawer

Moey posted:

Still liking my Nimble arrays alot. Unsure about the future with HP though.
other than a crappier look and feel to infosight, I have seen no difference under HP.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005

OFFICIAL BITCH OF DANBO DAXTER




Oven Wrangler

Spring Heeled Jack posted:

Edit: oh god, S.A.M from spiceworks? It’s a good possibility that’s where he got the idea.

He got banned from Spiceworks and I laughed and laughed and laughed.

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

Breaux, Breaux, you seen a defense around here anywhere!?


adorai posted:

other than a crappier look and feel to infosight, I have seen no difference under HP.

I suspect the main difference will be in a lack of resources put into further developing the platform and a slow attrition of Nimble employees.

The main target of the acquisition was actually the IP around Infosight, the arrays are just a value add. But the platform will probably soldier on for a good long while as a stable and pretty performant and simple storage platform.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



Internet Explorer posted:

He got banned from Spiceworks and I laughed and laughed and laughed.

Ahahaha, seriously? That is amazing.

Myrridinos
Jan 7, 2010


Would file system fragmentation cause a performance issue on a filesystem inside of a virtual hard disk?

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

Breaux, Breaux, you seen a defense around here anywhere!?


Myrridinos posted:

Would file system fragmentation cause a performance issue on a filesystem inside of a virtual hard disk?

Yes, though only for certain types of IO and not to the extent that fragmentation on the back end storage affects performance. Modern storage arrays pretty much all leverage copy on write semantics and snapshots and clones and deduplication and a bunch of other things that naturally fragment data on disk over time, but most of them also have methods for mitigating those problems. Tegile does not, unless you count just using a fixed, large transaction size, thus undoing one of the main innovations in ZFS.

You shouldnít be defragging your virtual server drives though, that only makes things worse.

Myrridinos
Jan 7, 2010


YOLOsubmarine posted:

Yes, though only for certain types of IO and not to the extent that fragmentation on the back end storage affects performance. Modern storage arrays pretty much all leverage copy on write semantics and snapshots and clones and deduplication and a bunch of other things that naturally fragment data on disk over time, but most of them also have methods for mitigating those problems. Tegile does not, unless you count just using a fixed, large transaction size, thus undoing one of the main innovations in ZFS.

You shouldnít be defragging your virtual server drives though, that only makes things worse.

That's more or less what I thought.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.


I've done way dumber things in production than Scott Alan Miller out of necessity and I can't wait until we're not doing them anymore so I can tell you about them

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



We all do dumbass poo poo all of the time. It's the proud sharing and evangelizing of your dubmass poo poo, with zero self-awareness that it is actually quite bad, that elevates the SAM's of the world above the rest of us.

anthonypants
May 6, 2007



Dinosaur Gum

bull3964 posted:

Our Pure arrays have been amazing.
Yeah, ours have been pretty stellar.

Tev
Aug 13, 2008


Echoing the love for Pure, a handful of my customers are using them and they are all really happy with their choice.

Spring Heeled Jack
Feb 25, 2007


Are these Pure arrays hybrid or all-flash? Due to our budget we would most likely be looking to hybrid to meet our capacity needs.

anthonypants
May 6, 2007



Dinosaur Gum

Spring Heeled Jack posted:

Are these Pure arrays hybrid or all-flash? Due to our budget we would most likely be looking to hybrid to meet our capacity needs.
All flash. You should get them anyway.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

I just love how simple they are. Pure takes care of them themselves if you are under support contact.

Need a firmware update? Open up remote assist and grab a beer.

Capacity expansion is also as easy.

We once had a weird edge case issue with one of our SSDs in the middle of the night when one of the io paths became intermittent. I woke up the next day with an email from Pure saying "Hey, an SSD was dodgy and we sent out a new one. In the meantime we failed out that drive and dynamically reconfigured the raid set so that you still had the same amount of parity AND still had the same number of hot spares to guard against sudden drive failures, you just lost a little unused capacity."

Drive got replaced and the capacity came back.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014




Tortured By Flan

If you want to satisfy a SAM fan and at the same time increase the usability of your actually-useful backup system, use veeam instant restore on a storage-optimized repository system with a good network card

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014




Tortured By Flan

Also, block spiceworks at your edge

Like reddit, it's blind-leading-blind malware for your brain

Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

Anyone have experience with hosting/accessing VMs on Synology boxes? I just spun up Mint but cannot figure out how to connect to it through a client other than through the DSM interface?

Kachunkachunk
Jun 6, 2011


You're running Mint as a VM on a Synology, it sounds like?

I suppose you have to look at the Open-vSwitch configuration and see if the VM is bridged and pingable from whatever setup you have. Maybe it picked up a DHCP address, at least? Those are my expectations, anyway.
If the Synology is providing NAT, you have some hurdles ahead of you, but I doubt this is the case.

Either way I'm not too familiar with running VMs on a Syno, though, and will be learning from your other responses. : /

Also, vSAN is pretty great in 6.7. And if you want FTT=2 without lovely consumption costs, you probably want to only do that with All-Flash setups which can do deduplication, compression, and RAID6, etc. The pessimistic replies earlier are warranted for older releases of vSAN and hybrid setups. Which unfortunately I think that initial vx-rail proposal was, too.

Pure Storage is pretty great, and so are the people behind it. They're definitely competent and responsive/timely in resolving their bugs/problems from my experience.

Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

Kachunkachunk posted:

You're running Mint as a VM on a Synology, it sounds like?

I suppose you have to look at the Open-vSwitch configuration and see if the VM is bridged and pingable from whatever setup you have. Maybe it picked up a DHCP address, at least? Those are my expectations, anyway.
If the Synology is providing NAT, you have some hurdles ahead of you, but I doubt this is the case.


Thanks for the reply! I did turn on Open vSwitch but I can't see any configuration options inside the DSM. The VM did pick up a DHCP address. Right now I am forwarding all my ports from my router to my Synology box...do I need to turn that off and forward VNC ports to the VM?

Kachunkachunk
Jun 6, 2011


Only question first, is if the IP that the VM picked up is from your LAN's DHCP server, or if it's an IP provided by the Synology. If the former, and you can ping it from your LAN, then yeah, forward to that VM's IP (consider giving it a static one if you're making it a server of sorts, or setting up a static lease in DHCP if that's your flavor).
If it's the latter, then you're probably NATting after all, and will need to forward to one of the Synology's IPs and then forward again from within Disk Station's Open-vSwitch config somewhere. I again don't think this is the case, though, it depends on what IP you picked up. I don't have Open-vSwitch or run VMs from my Synology so this is where we'd take to the Internet or some other goon experience.

Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

Yep it's got a static IP from the LAN now - can ping and SSH in but no luck with VNCing in. From the web it does look like Synology is using noVNC (and the link VMM connects you to the VM with includes webman/3rdparty/Virtualization/noVNC/vnc.html) but can't seem to connect with a VNC client at port 5900 from either inside the LAN or outside. Will keep fiddling.

edit: Nevermind, I'm stupid. noVNC is browser only. That's good enough for me. Thanks for the help though.

Smashing Link fucked around with this message at May 19, 2018 around 18:29

Kachunkachunk
Jun 6, 2011


Nice, glad you got it sorted. Which unit is this? I didn't bother setting up VMs on my DS1517+ because I wasn't confident it would have enough CPU resources (decent amount of RAM, though). Sounds like you might have one of the fancier RS/rack units? Do you use Synology HA?

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Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

It's a 1515+ but I upgraded the RAM to 16GB. Gave the VM 4GB of RAM

I am waiting for it to die due to the Atom bug but it seems to be holding on for now.

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