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GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007

I'm very highly educated. I know words, I have the best words...but there's no better word than stupid.



Lipstick Apathy

Thermopyle posted:

I'm basically a know-nothing, but it seems like the Zero W would have been better served by an edge connector like what you see on PCI cards or whatever. Then you could just slide headers or whatever module right on the thing.

Am I wrong?

Its probably not a benefit. having the same pinouts means better compatibility with anything that the normal Pi interacts with.

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



Edge connector needs a socket, and then you attach wires to... What exactly? Another header set of vertical pins on the motherboard? Header pins are great because they're the smallest object a human can hand soldier a wire to, they're the universal interface for home projects for a reason.

They do sell a compute module with edge connectors for an so-dimn socket but they're designed for industrial customers which is a different market.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell


Hadlock posted:

Edge connector needs a socket, and then you attach wires to... What exactly? Another header set of vertical pins on the motherboard? Header pins are great because they're the smallest object a human can hand soldier a wire to, they're the universal interface for home projects for a reason.

They do sell a compute module with edge connectors for an so-dimn socket but they're designed for industrial customers which is a different market.

The point was that if you wanted to attach wires you could use a header with a socket, and then modules wouldn't need any soldering. Just seems like it'd open new markets for them.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



Thermopyle posted:

I'm basically a know-nothing, but it seems like the Zero W would have been better served by an edge connector like what you see on PCI cards or whatever. Then you could just slide headers or whatever module right on the thing.

Am I wrong?

Those card edge connectors are kinda rare and expensive now so it would probably cost more. You have more flexibility by soldering in your own headers too, like you can pick a right angle header, straight through header, female header, etc.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004


So hot ...

Solder nothing, jumper wires 4 life

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


mod sassinator posted:

Those card edge connectors are kinda rare and expensive now so it would probably cost more. You have more flexibility by soldering in your own headers too, like you can pick a right angle header, straight through header, female header, etc.

For home projects, header pins are definitely the way to go. Similarly, if you are engineering a massive product run then you can just design the SOC right onto the board in the first place, no need for a daughterboard.

There is a middle-ground of short-run/bespoke products for the industrial/commercial markets, and advanced hobby projects, but it is definitely small. Again, you will either need to do SMT or have a breakout board (eg for prototyping) but the actual SODIMM socket is not expensive. Here's DigiKey's selection of 200-pin SODIMM sockets, which fit the RPi compute module.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


I'd prefer the socket side of header pins, since those can have a wire jammed in easily for testing and prototyping, but the pins are good enough.

I have one of those Zero cases with a breadboard attached and I just stick the wires right in the holes on my Zero W.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell


Though, I did just realize you can get a hammer header that you literally hit(!) into the holes on the zero...

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/gpio-hammer-header

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Thermopyle posted:

Though, I did just realize you can get a hammer header that you literally hit(!) into the holes on the zero...

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/gpio-hammer-header

So basically headers that mount by rivet-formed heads? Assuming it works reliably that's a super loving cool idea.

But, it's not like it's that much of a pain to just solder a quick row of through-hole headers. I am guessing those rivet headers are not really the best for mechanical reliability particularly under any sort of demanding physical condition (vibration, etc).

Sockser
Jun 28, 2007

I joined the new sensation, the #RXT REVOLUTION~!



he knows...


Thermopyle posted:

Though, I did just realize you can get a hammer header that you literally hit(!) into the holes on the zero...

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/gpio-hammer-header

These are dope but they're always sold out in the states and getting them shipped direct from Pimoroni is $$$$$

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



Paul MaudDib posted:

So basically headers that mount by rivet-formed heads? Assuming it works reliably that's a super loving cool idea.

But, it's not like it's that much of a pain to just solder a quick row of through-hole headers. I am guessing those rivet headers are not really the best for mechanical reliability particularly under any sort of demanding physical condition (vibration, etc).
It's not hard but not everyone has a soldering station. Everyone has a hammer.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell


I have the tools and the ability to solder it on, but I've done about 30 minutes of soldering work over the past 20 years...I'm super slow, messy, and not confident in the results.

In other words there's a huge required-skill-level difference between a hammer and soldering.

Sockser
Jun 28, 2007

I joined the new sensation, the #RXT REVOLUTION~!



he knows...


Soldering headers onto a pi zero or even a hat is also a long and boring slog and the pads are tiny and it sucks

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



By the time you get to pin 40 you generally know what you're doing and can go back and clean up pins 0-15.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

No... Not without incident.

It honestly takes less than two minutes if you know what you're doing and get into a rhythm. If you don't, then grab a practice board, but on some chill tunes, and

gary oldmans diary
Sep 26, 2005


Hell Gem

Thermopyle posted:

I have the tools and the ability to solder it on, but I've done about 30 minutes of soldering work over the past 20 years...I'm super slow, messy, and not confident in the results.

In other words there's a huge required-skill-level difference between a hammer and soldering.
I've seen a lot of fast soldering videos and its obviously a skill acquired via the exchange of your soul.

Police Automaton
Mar 17, 2009
"You are standing in a thread. Someone has made an insightful post."
LOOK AT insightful post
"It's a pretty good post."
HATE post
"I don't understand"
SHIT ON post
"You shit on the post. Why."

It's all practice and the right tools. A good soldering station that actually keeps a constant temperature is also important. Many cheap/lovely ones, even in the age of digital temperature displays, are at the tip only somewhere in the ballpark of what they're displaying and this turns soldering into a guesswork which it should not be. A good way to practice is to get PCBs out of old electronics (not necessarily old computers, they could actually be worth money) and just practice soldering on them until you get it right. Even if you are good at soldering it's a good idea to have such PCBs lying around to freshen up if you haven't soldered in a while. I've soldered and desoldered 179-pin CPUs with nothing but a manual desoldering pump, a ~$100 soldering station and some roses metal. All practice.

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ante
Apr 9, 2005

No... Not without incident.

The TS100 has been getting rave reviews and is like $60 on AliExpress. It's been favourably compared to way more expensive Wellers and the like.

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