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Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


Sagebrush posted:

If you want lots and lots of GPIO pins just get yourself something like the MCP23017 16-channel I2C port expander. $1.25 and a bit of software and you have 16 extra IOs. Use all 127 addresses on the I2C bus and you have 2032 pins. Go nuts

But what if he needs 6000 relays and switches? Maybe he's playing WoW with a custom controller.

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mewse
May 2, 2006



Rexxed posted:

But what if he needs 6000 relays and switches? Maybe he's playing WoW with a custom controller.

Keyboard matrix maybe

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


mewse posted:

Keyboard matrix maybe

I know we're veering off topic and it's kind of my fault but this reminded me of Tom Scott doing a goofy emoji keyboard with a bunch of keyboards and autohotkey. He's a little longwinded since he's geared for a non-technical audience but as a long time AHK user I thought it was kind of interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIFE7h3m40U

mewse
May 2, 2006



Rexxed posted:

I know we're veering off topic and it's kind of my fault but this reminded me of Tom Scott doing a goofy emoji keyboard with a bunch of keyboards and autohotkey. He's a little longwinded since he's geared for a non-technical audience but as a long time AHK user I thought it was kind of interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIFE7h3m40U

I mentioned keyboard because I think that chip sagebrush mentioned is used in the dactyl split DIY keyboard that I have halfquarter completed on my workbench

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

mewse posted:

Keyboard matrix maybe

Actually industrial automation. I did a really small project just for fun (fake elevator with vintage brass hardware and working floor indicator, lights, buttons, music, etc) and I was shocked at how many inputs/outputs I needed for a super simple project on a lark. I have some ideas in mind for real work projects and they'll involve many more inputs and outputs. I'm not trying to say my needs are super special, I'm saying I don't know what I don't know.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

No... Not without incident.

Use a PLC, bro

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

Kinda low level aren't they? Ive deployed like 12 rpis in various situations, and 11 of them drive some sort of display and use some amount of CPU

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist.

Fun Shoe

If you're using Raspberry Pis at your job I hope it isn't in an application that's fatal or maiming if it fails

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

Uhhh no they're not.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



If youíre using a RPi at your job and itís not for teaching computer touching just welp

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

evil_bunnY posted:

If you’re using a RPi at your job and it’s not for teaching computer touching just welp

You got a reason why or are you just being argumentative?

SpaceAceJase
Nov 8, 2008

and you
have proved
to be...

a real shitty poster,
and a real james


A pi feeds my cats every day 😎

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

revmoo posted:

You got a reason why or are you just being argumentative?

Look at the thread title for one thing. A raspberry pi is a fun toy to do a little project with or something that isn't important.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

There's a big gap between rated for hobbyist use and rated for industrial use too.

Obviously if you're gonna run a kiosk in the lobby no one cares. But don't run business critical poo poo on it.

Unless you know how to get an sd card to never corrupt itself on a power glitch.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

Thing with Pis to me is that they are so cheap that I can keep a stack of them and replace them without thinking twice about it. I have a standardized iso I can dd onto an SD ahead of time. I've got so many of those little micro sd usd adapters that I can literally image like 6 at a time. If it checks all the boxes for my needs I don't care if it's a toy or not. I'm using most of them for kiosk use for inventory tracking in our facility. I have a standardized design I fabricated into a single unit consisting of a display, barcode scanner, and pi. It takes a single power cord and cat5 cable, and provisioning involves sticking an sd into a PC and editing a url.txt to tell it what role it is. The entire integrated kiosk unit runs like $150 in parts and we can swap out the entire unit at the first sign of trouble rather then even bothering with diagnostics. Which has been totally uneccessary by the way.. in over a year of production use in a manufacturing facility I've seen zero failures of any kind. I'm not running any finger-mangly machines off of them, and was really just looking for some insight into what the upgrade path was for those who want more i/o. The concern trolling is a little ridiculous.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



It's just fine for your use case, but the reason people tend to use Pi's is the GPIO, and from there it gets to horrifying failure modes pretty quick. Also I've no idea what the package update pipeline is, but my guess is "not great"

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

evil_bunnY posted:

It's just fine for your use case, but the reason people tend to use Pi's is the GPIO, and from there it gets to horrifying failure modes pretty quick. Also I've no idea what the package update pipeline is, but my guess is "not great"

This has been my experience, I am underwhelmed by its GPIO capabilities. I was surprised by the fact that they can't really handle relays without additional circuitry, which to me seemed like what would have been an almost primary use-case.

beuges
Jul 4, 2005
fluffy bunny butterfly broomstick

evil_bunnY posted:

It's just fine for your use case, but the reason people tend to use Pi's is the GPIO, and from there it gets to horrifying failure modes pretty quick. Also I've no idea what the package update pipeline is, but my guess is "not great"

Actually, I think a lot of the reasons people tend to use Pi's in "production" scenarios is because they're dead cheap for a full-blown (albeit low-powered) PC + HDMI out in a tiny form factor. They may not be the best fit device for many of the applications they end up being used for but they're good and cheap enough that people will work around the warts to make things work.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

Yup. They are order of magnitudes cheaper, and tbh they're the most reliable computers _I_ am aware of. No moving parts or fans makes for an incredibly reliable PC. I evaluated a bunch of different devices before landing on Pis and they have been very good to me.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



revmoo posted:

This has been my experience, I am underwhelmed by its GPIO capabilities. I was surprised by the fact that they can't really handle relays without additional circuitry, which to me seemed like what would have been an almost primary use-case.
They can handle small mosfets, and really if youíre trying to handle mains with a RPi, youíre probably a little bit too far down the slippery slope.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


I just took my first slice of Raspberry Pi () and ordered one. Not planning on doing anything fancy with it outside of running pi-hole at home. But, I've been interested in getting one for years now, so this is basically my early Xmas present to myself.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.


Beware: youíll start wanting to use it for every computer-related project ever.

cage-free egghead
Mar 8, 2004

Ready to eat me, sir!


I had one that was collecting dust and made a PiHole, I feel like a genius getting it all to work and letting it do DHCP on my network. I may do PiVPN but I don't really need the ad-blocking stuff for my phone.

I am going to get another one and attempt a magic mirror project, or at least a monitor as a neat little screen for the house.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

Can the pi hole handle gigabit speeds for those of us lucky enough? I know it runs on the USB subsystem for ethernet..

ante
Apr 9, 2005

No... Not without incident.

My understanding is that it's just a DNS server, so it won't have any effect on your transfers. Initial DNS lookup, once per packet, will probably add a microsecond or two to your latency I guess

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.


I havenít noticed any problems with my gigabit speeds but if you want I can run a test when I get back on my desktop.

mewse
May 2, 2006



ante posted:

My understanding is that it's just a DNS server, so it won't have any effect on your transfers. Initial DNS lookup, once per packet, will probably add a microsecond or two to your latency I guess

This is my understanding as well. Pi hole is a dns server (built on dnsmasq?) it doesnít route all your traffic through the pi which would have performance concerns

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


revmoo posted:

Thing with Pis to me is that they are so cheap that I can keep a stack of them and replace them without thinking twice about it. I have a standardized iso I can dd onto an SD ahead of time.
This, I think, is the best argument in favor of using Pis in non-critical "production" roles. They're cheap, standardized, and widely available so it's trivial to have enough cold spares that as long as a short downtime isn't a big deal there really isn't a concern about reliability. Playing background music, driving informational or promotional displays, there are a lot of roles that they fill all the needs for quite nicely where being able to swap to a spare for less than the cost of a service call is good enough.

Also in my experience they are quite reliable. I have a few that have been in 24/7 use for years at this point and so far only one SD card has died. Every one of the boards is still good, even my original 1B that started its life as an emulator box, then ended up running a customer's background music system for a few years before making it back to me.

At one point we even tested using them as thin clients for a Terminal Services environment, but that customer ended up going down a path that has us eliminating the terminal server over the long term so it wasn't worth pursuing further. I know that at least one thin client vendor has jumped in with both feet on that one though and is offering an officially supported Pi-based device that they publicly admit is just a Pi 3 inside.

revmoo posted:

This has been my experience, I am underwhelmed by its GPIO capabilities. I was surprised by the fact that they can't really handle relays without additional circuitry, which to me seemed like what would have been an almost primary use-case.
IIRC the SoC used in the original was literally a chip made for set-top boxes that Broadcom had a bunch of extras of. The GPIOs are basically only good enough to drive a LED directly because that's what they were expected to be used for, and to keep costs down the Pi board didn't add anything to that. Most of the intended market for the Pi isn't likely to do much more with the GPIOs than blink a few LEDs anyways.

wolrah fucked around with this message at Nov 12, 2018 around 15:51

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist.

Fun Shoe

Is it common for non-industrial things with GPIO to have the ability to directly drive relays? I don't exactly have extensive experience with this sort of thing but I've never seen that as a standard feature. It's not too difficult to add a MOSFET and flyback diode in any case.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



Industrial poo poo worth anything is driven by PLCs

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012




Gravy Boat 2k

There's no way you can expect to drive a high power load directly off the GPIOs of any processor on the planet. The internal bonding wires, if nothing else, can't take much current.

If you're sinking or sourcing more than at most 100 milliamps (and usually more like 10) you need some kind of transistor or relay driver system.

Professor of Cats
Mar 22, 2009



evil_bunnY posted:

Industrial poo poo worth anything is driven by PLCs

Stuxnet would also agree

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Should I not be running my centrifuge on a RPi?

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doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.


On it and in it.

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