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Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


Cybernetic Crumb

General_Failure posted:

Debatable. Most instructions there is no gain in having 64 bit width. Depending on the design there can also be memory bandwidth bottlenecks. 64 bit programs also tend to be larger.

I'm not advocating either here. Just saying that one or the other can be better depending on the use case.

AArch64 didnít just add 64-bit (48-bit) addressing and wider operands, it also added a bunch of better NEON-like SIMD and some linked load/store instructions, and better FP support.

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evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



MikusR posted:

Unlike your standard intel and amd processors where 64bit was mainly for more memory, on ARM 64bit brought new instructions and improved performance.
Too bad 64 raspiOS is a total POS

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


Fun Shoe

Crosspostin from the learning electronics thread.

I wanted to see if anyone had guidance on best practices to make a breadboard functioning circuit into a prototype.

Basically I have this motor controller and the Pi, and a separate set of jumpers not shown that connect to a 10k resistor and a temperature sensor.


The motor controller contracts / extends a 12v linear actuator to open/close a door in the chicken coop. The 5V power on the motor controller powers the Pi and I am using DS18B20 temperature sensors.

I've gotten all the individual circuits / initial test scripts working and everything functions well now on a breadboard. The system is powered by a solar-charged 12V DC battery.

These are all going to go inside a chicken coop and will be out of any wind / rain but will at least need to be covered and put together in a way that is sturdy / stable. They will be mounted fairly high up on a board that is mounted to the wall with a standoff inbetween so they are not directly connected to the exterior wall (hopefully will keep down external temperature extremes).

My current thought is to put the Pi and motor controller into a 2-gang PVC electrical box with a solid cover on it and have wires going in-out from it via PVC conduit. What's a good way to connect all the GPIO pinned stuff to each component long-term? Should I be putting this into a different type of enclosure etc?

A Bag of Milk
Jul 3, 2007

I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare.


I don't know if my google skills have atrophied, but I'm having trouble finding a clear answer to how portable hard drives work with the raspberry pi. I have a new seagate backup plus and just want to know if the Pi 4B has enough juice to handle that ok. I won't be using usb for anything else except for maybe 1 Bluetooth receiver. Seems like the drive needs ~1.2V at load, which is the total power throughput for the Pi USB bus.

Some stuff I'm reading says to expect problems, others say it's fine, others say it depends a lot. I'm just looking for smooth media playback, nothing fancy.

If it is a problem, is there an easy solution to get the power I need. I have a USB Y cable which wouldn't help unless I plug the second end of the cord into power, which seems to be an ordeal on its own.

Any insight greatly appreciated

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



A Bag of Milk posted:

I don't know if my google skills have atrophied, but I'm having trouble finding a clear answer to how portable hard drives work with the raspberry pi. I have a new seagate backup plus and just want to know if the Pi 4B has enough juice to handle that ok. I won't be using usb for anything else except for maybe 1 Bluetooth receiver. Seems like the drive needs ~1.2V at load, which is the total power throughput for the Pi USB bus.

Some stuff I'm reading says to expect problems, others say it's fine, others say it depends a lot. I'm just looking for smooth media playback, nothing fancy.

If it is a problem, is there an easy solution to get the power I need. I have a USB Y cable which wouldn't help unless I plug the second end of the cord into power, which seems to be an ordeal on its own.

Any insight greatly appreciated

it's hard to answer definitively--motors spinning up and down have varying power requirements. anything else you have attached to the system will take power too so no single statement will hold true for every scenario. in general, a spinning motor hard drive is probably one of the most power hungry USB devices you can find... if it's a purpose built portable hard drive in an enclosure, the designers probably tried to source lower wattage and power components to work with most USB ports. but there's no requirement for them to do that and you're left in the state now where you just don't know until you try it. so give it a shot but be prepared to have to setup a powered hub just incase. or find a big SSD and be done with messing with spinning drives forever (i've never had a SSD that required a powered hub)

edit: the typical fix is to get a small USB hub that has an external power brick and plug the drive into that, then the hub into the pi

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

mod sassinator posted:

edit: the typical fix is to get a small USB hub that has an external power brick and plug the drive into that, then the hub into the pi

I would do this. Let a powered USB hub handle all the power requirements and then pass the data along to the pi.

Just-In-Timeberlake
Aug 18, 2003

iSheep krew represent


A Bag of Milk posted:

I don't know if my google skills have atrophied, but I'm having trouble finding a clear answer to how portable hard drives work with the raspberry pi. I have a new seagate backup plus and just want to know if the Pi 4B has enough juice to handle that ok. I won't be using usb for anything else except for maybe 1 Bluetooth receiver. Seems like the drive needs ~1.2V at load, which is the total power throughput for the Pi USB bus.

Some stuff I'm reading says to expect problems, others say it's fine, others say it depends a lot. I'm just looking for smooth media playback, nothing fancy.

If it is a problem, is there an easy solution to get the power I need. I have a USB Y cable which wouldn't help unless I plug the second end of the cord into power, which seems to be an ordeal on its own.

Any insight greatly appreciated

I can tell you from experience having set up my Pi4 to do exactly this.

It will power exactly one external drive (non-SSD, no idea about SSD) just fine, more than that and you will be lucky if it powers up. Use a powered hub.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

A lot of Pi flakiness is also caused by marginal power issues, and it won't be obvious that that's why your file system trashes itself regularly or whatever

A Bag of Milk
Jul 3, 2007

I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare.


mod sassinator posted:

it's hard to answer definitively--motors spinning up and down have varying power requirements. anything else you have attached to the system will take power too so no single statement will hold true for every scenario. in general, a spinning motor hard drive is probably one of the most power hungry USB devices you can find... if it's a purpose built portable hard drive in an enclosure, the designers probably tried to source lower wattage and power components to work with most USB ports. but there's no requirement for them to do that and you're left in the state now where you just don't know until you try it. so give it a shot but be prepared to have to setup a powered hub just incase. or find a big SSD and be done with messing with spinning drives forever (i've never had a SSD that required a powered hub)

edit: the typical fix is to get a small USB hub that has an external power brick and plug the drive into that, then the hub into the pi

Thanks for all the quick and detailed replies, especially this one. I'll get the hub. It's a bummer to throw down another $20 on another box of electronics that should be unnecessary... but it is my fault for not thinking things through and simply getting an ac powered external drive, but there are more expensive lessons in life I suppose.

Just-In-Timeberlake
Aug 18, 2003

iSheep krew represent


A Bag of Milk posted:

Thanks for all the quick and detailed replies, especially this one. I'll get the hub. It's a bummer to throw down another $20 on another box of electronics that should be unnecessary... but it is my fault for not thinking things through and simply getting an ac powered external drive, but there are more expensive lessons in life I suppose.

lmao, are you me that time travelled from 6 weeks ago to the present to ask this question?

Party Boat
Oct 31, 2007

where did that other dog come from

who is he


I'm considering getting a Pi to work as a video baby monitor, and might look into setting up a Pihole as well. The Zero W seems more than up to either but would it be able to handle both at once? Would I be better off getting one for each task?

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


Party Boat posted:

I'm considering getting a Pi to work as a video baby monitor, and might look into setting up a Pihole as well. The Zero W seems more than up to either but would it be able to handle both at once? Would I be better off getting one for each task?
The WiFi on Pis at least is known to be a significant CPU hog, to the point that it's explicitly not recommended to add a webcam to Octoprint setups based on a Zero W because it starts impacting the ability for the Pi to keep feeding the printer data. It's so bad that constant WiFi activity from a video stream literally bottlenecks a 115200 bit/sec serial connection. The 3 and newer have enough CPU horsepower that it's not really a big deal, but the Zero is really a single tasking machine.

Beyond that I personally would never use a Zero W as a piece of my core network infrastructure either, just because it's wireless. Servers go on wired connections, period.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Jun 22, 2020

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

Party Boat posted:

I'm considering getting a Pi to work as a video baby monitor, and might look into setting up a Pihole as well. The Zero W seems more than up to either but would it be able to handle both at once? Would I be better off getting one for each task?

Don't put a DIY baby monitor on the internet.
The people who build that kind of stuff for a living haven't consistently kept creepy people from watching (and talking to) strangers' children, so the odds of a home brew system not being horrifically vulnerable are low.
Actually, don't put any baby monitor on the internet.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



The zero is a bad choice too because it's single core. You forget how slow single core is until you use one, and video streaming is pretty demanding. If you try to even ssh in while it's busy you'll be waiting and waiting and waiting. Snag a $20 wyze cam and use their app, it's better in every single way including price.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet




Slippery Tilde

wolrah posted:

The WiFi on Pis at least is known to be a significant CPU hog, to the point that it's explicitly not recommended to add a webcam to Octoprint setups based on a Zero W because it starts impacting the ability for the Pi to keep feeding the printer data. It's so bad that constant WiFi activity from a video stream literally bottlenecks a 115200 bit/sec serial connection. The 3 and newer have enough CPU horsepower that it's not really a big deal, but the Zero is really a single tasking machine.

Beyond that I personally would never use a Zero W as a piece of my core network infrastructure either, just because it's wireless. Servers go on wired connections, period.

You can use a wired connection with a Zero W you just need an ethernet dongle. I had no problems using one for pihole, but it's so slow that anything else--including loading the package manager--is go-make-a-sandwich slow.

Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 22, 2020

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



Blue Footed Booby posted:

You can use a wired connection with a Zero W you just need an ethernet dongle.

Those don't come for free either, it takes some cpu to talk to USB devices.

Quantum of Phallus
Dec 27, 2010



Sorry for what is surely a really stupid, basic question but a bit of googling and I wasn't able to find the answer:

I am trying to automatically run a program, barrier, after login.
Any guide I have found has been for python scripts or editing a home/pi/.profile file, which I don't seem to have.

The file is called barrier.desktop.

Any idea how to do this?

Thanks in advance

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



Quantum of Phallus posted:

Sorry for what is surely a really stupid, basic question but a bit of googling and I wasn't able to find the answer:

I am trying to automatically run a program, barrier, after login.
Any guide I have found has been for python scripts or editing a home/pi/.profile file, which I don't seem to have.

The file is called barrier.desktop.

Any idea how to do this?

Thanks in advance

Open that barrier.desktop file in a text editor and look at the actual command it's running (should be a line in there, it's just a config file for the desktop icon). Then with that command test when you run it exactly in a terminal it runs the program. Finally make a systemd service to start it on login: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documen...sage/systemd.md

Quantum of Phallus
Dec 27, 2010



mod sassinator posted:

Open that barrier.desktop file in a text editor and look at the actual command it's running (should be a line in there, it's just a config file for the desktop icon). Then with that command test when you run it exactly in a terminal it runs the program. Finally make a systemd service to start it on login: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documen...sage/systemd.md

Thank you!

Party Boat
Oct 31, 2007

where did that other dog come from

who is he


poeticoddity posted:

Don't put a DIY baby monitor on the internet.
The people who build that kind of stuff for a living haven't consistently kept creepy people from watching (and talking to) strangers' children, so the odds of a home brew system not being horrifically vulnerable are low.
Actually, don't put any baby monitor on the internet.

My plan was to set it up with a firewall that blocked all incoming connections other than those on the local network and it's just as I'm typing that I've realised that would make it completely incompatible with being a DNS server, which I guess answers that question.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


Blue Footed Booby posted:

You can use a wired connection with a Zero W you just need an ethernet dongle. I had no problems using one for pihole, but it's so slow that anything else--including loading the package manager--is go-make-a-sandwich slow.
Once you've added an OTG adapter and ethernet to a Zero W you're getting pretty close to the price of one of the big ones, which considering the performance difference seems like the obvious choice unless you have sufficiently tight power/space constraints that the big ones don't fit.

Obviously if you already have the parts sitting around then gently caress it, use what you've got, but as someone who owns a small fleet of Zeroes I think that they're great for specific appliance roles where size matters but they are not good as general purpose computing devices. If you don't need the Zero's size, you'll almost certainly be happier with a big one.

poeticoddity posted:

Don't put a DIY baby monitor on the internet.
The people who build that kind of stuff for a living haven't consistently kept creepy people from watching (and talking to) strangers' children, so the odds of a home brew system not being horrifically vulnerable are low.
Actually, don't put any baby monitor on the internet.
Normally I'd be 100% with you on the don't DIY part, but to be honest I'd trust a Pi running MotionEyeOS over the vast majority of commercial networked cameras. At least with that I know that the core platform is a nice reasonable BuildRoot rather than some hairball vendor BSP running some random kernel from 6 years ago.

Still don't put it on the internet though.

wolrah fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jun 22, 2020

Skarsnik
Oct 21, 2008

I...AM...RUUUDE!






Slippery Tilde

Quantum of Phallus posted:

Sorry for what is surely a really stupid, basic question but a bit of googling and I wasn't able to find the answer:

I am trying to automatically run a program, barrier, after login.
Any guide I have found has been for python scripts or editing a home/pi/.profile file, which I don't seem to have.

The file is called barrier.desktop.

Any idea how to do this?

Thanks in advance

Make an autostart directory if it isn't already there:

mkdir /home/pi/.config/autostart

Bung any .desktop files in that directory.

That's it

Quantum of Phallus
Dec 27, 2010



Skarsnik posted:

Make an autostart directory if it isn't already there:

mkdir /home/pi/.config/autostart

Bung any .desktop files in that directory.

That's it

Thanks !

Skarsnik
Oct 21, 2008

I...AM...RUUUDE!






Slippery Tilde

To expand a bit - a systemd file is a more robust method as it doesn't rely on a desktop environment, and you can fine tune at what point and more importantly what else it relies on to start

But for any desktop app using the actual launcher to do it is a lot easier

General_Failure
Apr 17, 2005


Genuine question. Is there a good reason to get an 8GB RPi4?

I've been running a Jetson Nano as my "good" SBC for a while. Besides it's Pi compatible GPIO being round the other way, and only having 4GB as opposed to 8GB, is there a reason it would be a good thing for me?
I find the 8GB alluring, but not much else.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





A couple pages back we discussed this 8gb model

8gb is great for building a 4-6 SBC kubetnetes cluster, gives you the ability to run 3 x 2gb containers per node + overhead. You could probably scale it up to 16 SBC safely. 2GB is on the lower end of a "real" workload. In modern applications, a slow quad core cpu is plenty, but these SBC are usually starved for memory; ideally they would have skipped the 8GB model and just offered a 16GB model, which would allow 7 x 2gb container, or some combination of 3 x 4gb + 1 x 2gb, or whatever your preferred bin packing solution is

My dream cluster is 6 x 16gb raspberry pi running all my personal workloads

General_Failure
Apr 17, 2005


16GB would be phenomenal. My ageing PC has 8GB which has been enough. I've found the 2GB on my Orange Pi 3 seems to have a higher ceiling than the Jetson Nano. The Nano runs out of memory so drat easily for some reason. Faster though. I had both building gcc yesterday. The Nano finished way in front.

Does the RPi4 still use a USB Ethernet chip?

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


General_Failure posted:

16GB would be phenomenal. My ageing PC has 8GB which has been enough. I've found the 2GB on my Orange Pi 3 seems to have a higher ceiling than the Jetson Nano. The Nano runs out of memory so drat easily for some reason. Faster though. I had both building gcc yesterday. The Nano finished way in front.

Does the RPi4 still use a USB Ethernet chip?

RPI4 uses a dedicated serial chip (https://www.broadcom.com/products/e...tphy/bcm54213pe) which doesn't share bandwidth with the pcie lane used by the usb3 chip.

WarMECH
Dec 23, 2004


I updated my Raspberry Pi this morning and upgraded Pi Hole to v5.0 and everything seems to be working fine but I noticed that one of my devices (Dell PC) is showing up with these extra characters after the IP Address:



It's the only client that is displaying this way and I have no idea what those numbers represent, and they aren't the MAC address. Anyone know what this is?

Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


Fun Shoe

Looks like itís an IPv6 address. The problem with xxx.xxx.x.xxx is that you only get so many possible combinations so IPv6 went ham with the side effect of being a pita to read/remember.


Has anyone taken a shot at USB boot for a pi? I saw that theyíve enabled it and Iíve been thinking about trying it out on my Pi4s.

Warbird fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jun 23, 2020

Sad Panda
Sep 22, 2004

I'm a Sad Panda.

Warbird posted:

Looks like itís an IPv6 address. The problem with xxx.xxx.x.xxx is that you only get so many possible combinations so IPv6 went ham with the side effect of baking a pita to read/remember.


Has anyone taken a shot at USB boot for a pi? I saw that theyíve enabled it and Iíve been thinking about trying it out on my Pi4s.

Yeah fe80 is the start of an IPv6 address.

Talen_Soti
Mar 30, 2010


Warbird posted:

Looks like itís an IPv6 address. The problem with xxx.xxx.x.xxx is that you only get so many possible combinations so IPv6 went ham with the side effect of being a pita to read/remember.


Has anyone taken a shot at USB boot for a pi? I saw that theyíve enabled it and Iíve been thinking about trying it out on my Pi4s.

I've used it on my 3B's and it works fine if a little slow to boot up at first as it seems to be polling everything else to find a way to boot.

Varkk
Apr 17, 2004




I think the Pi4 USB boot is still a work in progress. I think to enable it you need to enable experimental updates for the firmware. Then update the firmware.

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine


Is upgrading from a Pi 3 to a P4 as simple as swapping the SD card (assuming no overclocking or other manual hardware-oriented tweaks)? Or is there persistent firmware/kernel configuration stuff that is likely to break?

ickna
May 19, 2004




Soiled Meat

Discussion Quorum posted:

Is upgrading from a Pi 3 to a P4 as simple as swapping the SD card (assuming no overclocking or other manual hardware-oriented tweaks)? Or is there persistent firmware/kernel configuration stuff that is likely to break?

I tried this when I got my P4 soon after they launched and it didn't work, but I didn't have the most recent Raspbian installed on the card at that was in the P3 at the time, so it didn't work. I would think if you are running a version of Raspbian that was released after the P4 was, then it should probably work.

HERAK
Dec 1, 2004


Discussion Quorum posted:

Is upgrading from a Pi 3 to a P4 as simple as swapping the SD card (assuming no overclocking or other manual hardware-oriented tweaks)? Or is there persistent firmware/kernel configuration stuff that is likely to break?

Make an image of the sd card first and give it a go. You can always restore from that if something breaks.

Skarsnik
Oct 21, 2008

I...AM...RUUUDE!






Slippery Tilde

It'll either boot or it wont, and its not like the card will then not work in the 3 after that

You need to be on buster for a pi4, so if you haven't updated to that do it first. It should work then

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


Question: do you guys use docker on your raspberry? For what kind of things?

Last weekend I bought an external hard drive and so I'm looking into installing/configuring a number of things (raspberry pi 3b): samba, deluge, couchpotato, plex, ... It looks like there's a docker container for all of these things, does it make sense to always use these? Or are there some overhead costs (or other drawbacks) I should be aware of?

ickna
May 19, 2004




Soiled Meat

Walh Hara posted:

Question: do you guys use docker on your raspberry? For what kind of things?

Last weekend I bought an external hard drive and so I'm looking into installing/configuring a number of things (raspberry pi 3b): samba, deluge, couchpotato, plex, ... It looks like there's a docker container for all of these things, does it make sense to always use these? Or are there some overhead costs (or other drawbacks) I should be aware of?

Do it. Using containers has very little overhead for a lot of convenience, being able to sandbox things off and upgrade independently means you never mess something else up by upgrading or downgrading dependencies. Moving to new hardware is super easy too if you decide to bump up to a Pi 4. Just be sure to map folders/storage to your external drive so nothing is stored on the SD card except the OS. Also save whatever compose file or command line used to spin up the containers so you can recover if the SD card gets corrupted.

Edit: look for any of the linuxserver images for those first, they are optimized and easier to configure the user/group stuff for permissions issues that you will likely run in to.

ickna fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jul 6, 2020

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Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


Fun Shoe

I run all my nonsense in Docker aside from SMB so go nuts. That said I do it on an old laptop and not a Pi. There ought to be a little bit of loss or overhead, but you can pretty easily revert/change/upgrade your setup if you use docker-config. Assuming youíre running a newer Pi there isnít really a reason not to.

If youíre feeling really froggy set up a k8s cluster and get that sweet sweet fall over and replication for when the SD card eats itself. Also be aware youíre going to be locked by the USB connection, but it should still good enough for normal use. Now if youíre using an older Pi that shares the networking with the USB bus then that might not be great. Also be aware that transcoding is not going to be a thing for Pi Plex.

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